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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Monastic Tradition: Way of the Soulknife, 2nd Draft [PEACH]



DracoKnight
2016-09-30, 01:28 AM
In January, I posted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475143-Soulknife-Update-for-5e) a soulknife done as a Monastic Tradition. In actual play, it was completely over powered, and the fluff didn't gel with my world like I thought it would. So, here (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SJ8GSYj6) is my attempt at making a more generic soulknife that is more balanced :smallbiggrin:

Thanks in advance for your help!

Requiemforlust
2016-09-30, 09:36 AM
Okay, this is really nice. Better than your first draft for sure :smallsmile:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-09-30, 11:43 AM
The numbers all look fine. Truesight at that level should be fine too, I just don't know how thematic it is for the class. I could be wrong.

DracoKnight
2016-09-30, 08:31 PM
Is there any more feedback??

BulletMagnet
2016-09-30, 08:54 PM
I will start by saying I don't know much of the fluff behind the soul knife class besides psychic type stuff.

I personally feel soul knife doesn't do much to define the archetype, it just front loads later abilities. And soul smite is too strong.

In my opinion, At level 3, you should have a very distinct ability that defines the archetype's playstyle. The ability is really just letting the monk get their level 5 monk damage and level 6 ki-empowered strike ability on one weapon...and giving them a rarely resisted elemental type. I would suggest adding some flavor, and letting those abilities still do their thing....so give them the ability create physical manifestations of a weapon using their ki...then maybe a few abilities that use ki points to modify the weapon. Like force damage, or some attribute.


For soul smite. At sixth level you can do 7d6 force damage in one shot against a low wis. That's great burst, but doesn't really do much for changing the style of play. And I feel it's a bit broken cause the damage die continues to scale, so later you can do 7d10, multiple times in a row. Also, the low wis thing seems to add complexity to 5e, when things are supposed to be easy to resolve. My do would hate having to continually look that up. So you may want to think of an easily identifiable situation if you are going for situational burst.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-09-30, 11:39 PM
I will start by saying I don't know much of the fluff behind the soul knife class besides psychic type stuff.

If I remember correctly they're kind of like psionic paladins/bladesingers.


I personally feel soul knife doesn't do much to define the archetype, it just front loads later abilities. And soul smite is too strong.

Soul Smite is not too strong. When you first get it, you do more damage swinging 4 times, which you can do 6 times. It's a trade off - lots of damage on one swing, or lots of little swings for more damage.


In my opinion, At level 3, you should have a very distinct ability that defines the archetype's playstyle. The ability is really just letting the monk get their level 5 monk damage and level 6 ki-empowered strike ability on one weapon...and giving them a rarely resisted elemental type. I would suggest adding some flavor, and letting those abilities still do their thing....so give them the ability create physical manifestations of a weapon using their ki...then maybe a few abilities that use ki points to modify the weapon. Like force damage, or some attribute.


For soul smite. At sixth level you can do 7d6 force damage in one shot against a low wis. That's great burst, but doesn't really do much for changing the style of play. And I feel it's a bit broken cause the damage die continues to scale, so later you can do 7d10, multiple times in a row. Also, the low wis thing seems to add complexity to 5e, when things are supposed to be easy to resolve. My do would hate having to continually look that up. So you may want to think of an easily identifiable situation if you are going for situational burst.

I think that it does define the style of play, though. 6d6 on one go, you're in, you're out. Combined with the mobility of the Monk and you're an excellent striker, which I feel the soulknife should be if it's a monk. And let's look at the existing archetypes:

Open Hand: Battlefield Control
Shadow: Stealth and Subterfuge
Four Elements: Spellcaster
Sun Soul: Ranged
Long Death: Tank

Striker is missing, this fits it well, I think. If you run the numbers it's not actually OP. If you sink all of your ki points into Soul Smite then you basically have 1/rest sneak attack. Or if you're smart with your ki, a max of 3 times when you get it. When this ability is maxed out, and you have 20 ki at 20th level, you can deal 20d10. The Long Death Monk already can do this. It's not overpowered.

DracoKnight
2016-10-01, 10:19 AM
The Long Death Monk already can do this. It's not overpowered.

And the Long Death Monk does it for 10 ki, so 2/rest.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-01, 05:57 PM
And the Long Death Monk does it for 10 ki, so 2/rest.

I completely forgot that.

tyruth
2016-10-01, 11:52 PM
I'd like to see a mechanic that lets you dual wield or wield the blade in 2 hands. Just some more customization to the flavor behind the weapon you forge, since it's a manifestation of a monk's Ki; it should be individual to the monk. Perhaps adding in the ability to throw the blade as well.

Not sure I like how the sword burst cantrip is kinda just tacked on there, would like to see an ability more focused towards expanding the things you can do with your Ki blade. Similar can be said for the Focused Mind ability, just doesn't seem to fit with what is supposed to be a combat based archetype.

Can you use the blade in conjunction with the flurry of blows feature, ie use the blade to make those extra attacks? I feel like the Soul Smite thing could work quite well, but it seems lack luster compared to sneak attack and similar abilities. Perhaps have it apply to all the attacks you make till your next turn?

You mention having the soulknife a protector of a temple etc... perhaps work that more in with the abilities that you've given them as they seem rather focused on offense.

DracoKnight
2016-10-02, 02:24 AM
I'd like to see a mechanic that lets you dual wield or wield the blade in 2 hands. Just some more customization to the flavor behind the weapon you forge, since it's a manifestation of a monk's Ki; it should be individual to the monk. Perhaps adding in the ability to throw the blade as well.

Fair enough, I'll see what I can do to implement something akin to this without throwing off balance.


Not sure I like how the sword burst cantrip is kinda just tacked on there, would like to see an ability more focused towards expanding the things you can do with your Ki blade. Similar can be said for the Focused Mind ability, just doesn't seem to fit with what is supposed to be a combat based archetype.

Being able to cast sword burst was supposed to be a similar ability to the Hunter Ranger's Whirlwind ability - you're hitting everything within 5 feet of you.

For Focused Mind I guess I was thinking it would be good for avoiding Illusions and Charming effects and hold person (always helpful for a melee combatant).


Can you use the blade in conjunction with the flurry of blows feature, ie use the blade to make those extra attacks? I feel like the Soul Smite thing could work quite well, but it seems lack luster compared to sneak attack and similar abilities. Perhaps have it apply to all the attacks you make till your next turn?

You can use your blade to Flurry. It works with any ability that allows you to make an unarmed strike (such as Flurry of Blows) or enhances your unarmed strikes (such as Stunning Strike).

And Soul Smite doesn't need a buff. At 20th level it's roughly on par with the Long Death Monk's 17th level ability (I'm figuring that 1/rest and on a successful attack is about equal to 2/rest allowing a saving throw). Initially it's a d6 and scales like Divine Smite from the Paladin, and is eventually d8, then d10. And remember Monks get Ki back on SHORT rests. I don't believe it needs buffing.


You mention having the soulknife a protector of a temple etc... perhaps work that more in with the abilities that you've given them as they seem rather focused on offense.

What kind of defensive ability would you give them? The way I was imagining them defending temples was the "best defense is a good offense" strategy.

Ugganaut
2016-10-02, 03:49 AM
If I remember correctly they're kind of like psionic paladins/bladesingers.

I always saw them as a bit more roguish, with skills like hide, move silently, spot etc. Light armor, shields, simple weapons and a shortsword-type mindblade.
I've been working on a Soulknife rogue archetype, I'll post it, but its still a rough draft. I based it off Arcane Trickster for balance purposes.

I think Soulknife does fit a monk too, I like what you've done DracoKnight :)

tyruth
2016-10-02, 05:36 AM
Fair enough, I'll see what I can do to implement something akin to this without throwing off balance.

Perhaps with having two blades, the damage die for each is one step lower? IE 1d6 becomes 2d4 (if both attacks hit), though I'm not sure how balanced that would be, since you'll be hitting a lot harder at higher levels being able to dual wield weapons with a d8 damage die.



Being able to cast sword burst was supposed to be a similar ability to the Hunter Ranger's Whirlwind ability - you're hitting everything within 5 feet of you.

Then why not just give them the whirlwind ability itself?


You can use your blade to Flurry. It works with any ability that allows you to make an unarmed strike (such as Flurry of Blows) or enhances your unarmed strikes (such as Stunning Strike).

With the flurry, I was meaning could you use a strike from your blade instead of an unarmed strike? (Considering they deal the same damage)




Not sure what sort of defensive ability would fit if any, it's just that the Focused Mind seemed a bit out of place when I first looked at it. Would work fine with the warrior/philosopher thing though (didn't notice that last bit in the intro paragraph)

DracoKnight
2016-10-02, 06:53 AM
Perhaps with having two blades, the damage die for each is one step lower? IE 1d6 becomes 2d4 (if both attacks hit), though I'm not sure how balanced that would be, since you'll be hitting a lot harder at higher levels being able to dual wield weapons with a d8 damage die.

No need to drop the damage die. Normal monks can wield two shortsword that deal d10.


Then why not just give them the whirlwind ability itself?

Because I wanted it to upgrade to farther distances at higher levels. My first draft - before I posted it on the forum - had whirlwind attack. It was a concious choice to change it. (Dealing half damage to enemies being rather nice, and Submortimer having given his Soulknife the Whirlwind ability.)


With the flurry, I was meaning could you use a strike from your blade instead of an unarmed strike? (Considering they deal the same damage)

Yes, you can, that's what I clarified in my last response.


Not sure what sort of defensive ability would fit if any, it's just that the Focused Mind seemed a bit out of place when I first looked at it. Would work fine with the warrior/philosopher thing though (didn't notice that last bit in the intro paragraph)

Okay, cool.

DracoKnight
2016-10-02, 07:00 AM
I always saw them as a bit more roguish, with skills like hide, move silently, spot etc. Light armor, shields, simple weapons and a shortsword-type mindblade.
I've been working on a Soulknife rogue archetype, I'll post it, but its still a rough draft. I based it off Arcane Trickster for balance purposes.

They were kind of roguish :smallsmile: I'd be happy to provide feedback once you put it up :smallsmile:


I think Soulknife does fit a monk too, I like what you've done DracoKnight :)

Thanks, Ugganaut! :smallbiggrin:

DracoKnight
2016-10-02, 10:29 AM
I added in the ability to reshape your Ki Blade, manifest two Ki Blades and throw your Ki Blade.

Submortimer
2016-10-02, 01:22 PM
Draco, when you get time, check your emails and/or clean out your inbox, I have something I need to discuss with you.

DracoKnight
2016-10-02, 05:24 PM
Draco, when you get time, check your emails and/or clean out your inbox, I have something I need to discuss with you.

My inbox is clear, but if you want I can PM you my personal email.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-03, 11:40 AM
Okay, so at 20th level Soul Smite is now basically Sneak Attack 2/rest. That feels underpowered...but then, maybe it's not, because the Paladin gets capped at 5d8 and its crit-fishing provides some of the best Nova in the game. Eh, yeah it should be fine. It just seems very unattractive to blow 8 Ki on it now. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Now I want to make a Oath of Vengeance 6/Soulknife 8/Assassin 6. Really MAD, but the surprise round NOVA ^_^

SterlingWren
2016-10-03, 01:25 PM
I like what you've done here - it feels like it will play really dynamically, and I like how you can customize the amount of damage you deal with Soul Smite. Baseline of 3d6 with the possibility to lay on more hurt is great :smallbiggrin:

It feels a lot like a jedi, if you ask me :smallcool:


EDIT: Now I want to make a Oath of Vengeance 6/Soulknife 8/Assassin 6. Really MAD, but the surprise round NOVA ^_^

As your DM, I will kill your character so fast and never give the party surprise again.

DracoKnight
2016-10-03, 06:14 PM
I have removed the "Soul Smite" feature and implemented "Warrior Scrolls." This was done because monks in general have very little use for magic items/there's few specifically useful for the monk, compounded by the fact that the soulknife wouldn't be able to effectively make use of magic items given by the DM as loot.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-03, 06:21 PM
I have removed the "Soul Smite" feature and implemented "Warrior Scrolls." This was done because monks in general have very little use for magic items/there's few specifically useful for the monk, compounded by the fact that the soulknife wouldn't be able to effectively make use of magic items given by the DM as loot.

Okay, I think I like that more than Soul Smite.

DracoKnight
2016-10-03, 07:13 PM
Okay, I think I like that more than Soul Smite.

And Soul Smite is still there as an option for those who liked the feature.

Ugganaut
2016-10-04, 05:31 AM
Warrior Scrolls - I really like that idea. Something feels off about the cantrips, probably just because its magic, instead of a ki ability that mimics magic. There are a lot of options that aren't hard to get(50gp each), does it maybe need to be limited to "pick 1 at X/Y/Z level"?
The other issue with cantrips, is they can be modified by things like feats, and they do interfere with Flurry of Blows, but that might be intentional. Booming Blade as an example, makes you sacrifice Extra Attack for that boost in one attack and some control. But you can't use flurry of blows, because it was a Cast Spell not Attack action. I've never seen Way of the Four Elements in play, but most of its abilities have a ki cost.

Elemental Strike on the other hand, can apply to all attacks. No idea if adding a variable Hunter's Mark style damage with no spell slot/cast action/concentration/single target would be unbalancing, I'm not that good with numbers, but it sounds high. Being able to multiclass to get something like that sounds like it would start getting unbalancing rather quickly. On top of that, you gain resistance that has no duration except when you change it. If the Ki Blade is considered an unarmed attack, and becomes magical at lvl 6, the 11th level "+2 weapon" scroll becomes a bit bland compared to the +1d6dmg every attack and resistance. +2 to hit is good, just not sure its that good.

Karma - that seems far too strong to not have a Ki cost. The condition of being hit is not exactly rare, so thats adding a monk attack every round or every second round on average. And its an Opportunity Attack instead of a reaction attack, which might not be an issue, except there could be things that modify OA's(now or in the future).

Vorpal Knife - I have no experience will that level character, but holy **** :) I saw Quivering Palm is instant kill, so its not unheard of. The difference is Vorpal has no cost and no saving throw. I'm guessing you limited it so the boss fights aren't over on round 1 :) We use flanking in our games, so a level 20 monk is attacking 4 times a round regularly, and if flanking thats a high chance for a natural 20. The +3 on top of that seems excessive, being covered already in another scroll.

In a rush, so sorry if I sound like an ********, not my intention :)

Edit: I wouldn't allow Ki Blade in my game as written, because allowing it to be used with Flurry of Blows feels like it messes up the balance. Monk weapons allows a monk to use enchanted weapons and keep their attack rate and damage, which you've covered with warrior scrolls, but then allowed them to use that "magical" property at extra one or two times per round. Ki Blade changes the damage type, and gives it a range like Sun Soul, which I think is enough for balance purposes at level 3.

DracoKnight
2016-10-04, 11:19 AM
Edit: I wouldn't allow Ki Blade in my game as written, because allowing it to be used with Flurry of Blows feels like it messes up the balance. Monk weapons allows a monk to use enchanted weapons and keep their attack rate and damage, which you've covered with warrior scrolls, but then allowed them to use that "magical" property at extra one or two times per round. Ki Blade changes the damage type, and gives it a range like Sun Soul, which I think is enough for balance purposes at level 3.

The only thing allowing Ki Blade does that the unarmed strikes don't do is Force Damage. If you throw the blade it disappears after the attack and you have to manifest it on your next turn.

Yes, you can make the scrolls and have them apply to 1-2 more attacks per round, but I haven't seen a single game where the DM didn't homebrew a magic item that applied to the monk's unarmed strikes. The most common one I've seen is actually what Elemental Ki is based on. And they can't get warrior scrolls until level 6. And the scrolls need to be attuned to (and you only have 3 attunement slots).

I agree with most everything else you've said, though. I'm working on implementing those tweaks.

Ugganaut
2016-10-04, 05:27 PM
The only thing allowing Ki Blade does that the unarmed strikes don't do is Force Damage. If you throw the blade it disappears after the attack and you have to manifest it on your next turn.
Yes, you can make the scrolls and have them apply to 1-2 more attacks per round, but I haven't seen a single game where the DM didn't homebrew a magic item that applied to the monk's unarmed strikes. The most common one I've seen is actually what Elemental Ki is based on. And they can't get warrior scrolls until level 6. And the scrolls need to be attuned to (and you only have 3 attunement slots).
I only hesitate with Ki Blade because they seem to have gone out of there way to make sure Flurry of Blows couldn't benefit from a monk weapon, presumably for balance reasons. In our Luskan game, two of us are playing monks, and our DM hasn't done that, and I know he wouldn't. That might say more about our DM than Ki Blade though :) Flurry of Blows can't benefit from magic weapons, feats, probably spells and other things, so changing that seems quite major to me. Functionally it might be fine, I'm not that experienced.

I totally missed Warrior Scrolls was taking up a magical item attunement slot :) That definitely puts the power in perspective. With normal magic items you either have to be given them by the DM, or research the formula and create the item yourself. If our DM gave us a +1 weapon(its a rather low magic game), its a big deal, as usually his magic items don't give a static bonus to hit and damage, they are very unique creations(I can't post you a couple if you like, they need their own character sheet :P ). So the advantage of warrior scrolls, is you remove the formula, and reduce creation cost to a long rest and 50gp. My very minor point, is something like Lesser Enchantment seems to be there for a sense of completeness, no one I know would choose it over Elemental Strike. Even the +2 version, which has a level requirement, would be a toss up, especially with the resistance. We use the Flanking rule, so its not hard for melee to get advantage, so the +2hit isn't as meaningful, but a 1d6 extra dice can double on a crit, and 3-4 attacks with flanking means crits aren't uncommon, and Ki Blade allows Elemental Strike on all of them.

DracoKnight
2016-10-04, 05:47 PM
I will say: my group has always allowed Flurry to be performed with a monk weapon, and it hasn't broken anything. If anything it just adds to the enjoyment of the players :smallsmile:

Ugganaut
2016-10-04, 06:01 PM
I will say: my group has always allowed Flurry to be performed with a monk weapon, and it hasn't broken anything. If anything it just adds to the enjoyment of the players :smallsmile:

My little halfling Monk/Rogue would love your game :)

DracoKnight
2016-10-05, 12:33 PM
My little halfling Monk/Rogue would love your game :)

He probably would :smallsmile:

Another thing my group does is allow racially trained weapons as Monk weapons if your monastery was all that one race. Because it just makes sense for a dwarf monk to wield a hammer or ax, and finally Elves can wield longswords with DEX.

It doesn't damage game balance any more than a human who took Dual Wielder and Two-Weapon Fighting at first level. And Flurry is resource cost, they can't do it forever.

Ugganaut
2016-10-05, 06:37 PM
He probably would :smallsmile:

Another thing my group does is allow racially trained weapons as Monk weapons if your monastery was all that one race. Because it just makes sense for a dwarf monk to wield a hammer or ax, and finally Elves can wield longswords with DEX.

I like that idea, I fight those racial weapons don't come into play often. We have 3 dwarves in one game, and all of them get martial weapons some way or another. The only change we made, is one dwarf clan has light and heavy crossbow instead of the two hammers. Didn't effect balance either.

DracoKnight
2016-10-06, 11:36 AM
I like that idea, I fight those racial weapons don't come into play often. We have 3 dwarves in one game, and all of them get martial weapons some way or another. The only change we made, is one dwarf clan has light and heavy crossbow instead of the two hammers. Didn't effect balance either.

Yeah, racial weaponsdont come into play often enough. The only time I've really seen them come into play is when an Elf Rogue uses a longbow.

Requiemforlust
2016-10-06, 01:12 PM
I really like the idea of the warrior scrolls, but I feel that they should be slightly more limited in what they can do. And I think that the enchantment scrolls should be one scroll that scales with you, because as is you can have a +6 to hit and damage.

DracoKnight
2016-10-06, 01:14 PM
And I think that the enchantment scrolls should be one scroll that scales with you, because as is you can have a +6 to hit and damage.

Right. I hadn't thought about that.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-07, 05:05 AM
I have a suggestion. Instead of the warrior scroll (because it seems to me that those could get out of hand very quickly) what about something along the lines of "you can spend 1 Ki point to add 1d8 force damage to your attacks for the round." At 6th level that's 2 Ki per round if you Flurry, so for one combat (which usually go no longer than 3 rounds) you excel at DPR, and then you're done until you rest?

Scrolls could still be a thing - but DMs give them as loot.

DracoKnight
2016-10-07, 05:07 AM
I have a suggestion. Instead of the warrior scroll (because it seems to me that those could get out of hand very quickly) what about something along the lines of "you can spend 1 Ki point to add 1d8 force damage to your attacks for the round." At 6th level that's 2 Ki per round if you Flurry, so for one combat (which usually go no longer than 3 rounds) you excel at DPR, and then you're done until you rest?

Scrolls could still be a thing - but DMs give them as loot.

I like this, what does everyone else think?

Ugganaut
2016-10-07, 07:50 AM
Does bring it in line with the Psychic Strike they had in previous editions. With the 1 Ki per flurry attack, the possibility of font loading too much damage is kept in check. Need to play test, but it sounds like a good idea to me. Also stream lines it a lot.

DracoKnight
2016-10-07, 01:04 PM
Does bring it in line with the Psychic Strike they had in previous editions. With the 1 Ki per flurry attack, the possibility of font loading too much damage is kept in check. Need to play test, but it sounds like a good idea to me. Also stream lines it a lot.

Alright. I'll change it to this, and we'll see what it looks like :smallbiggrin:

DracoKnight
2016-10-07, 02:04 PM
Cleaned up the wording on a bunch of the features.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-07, 11:55 PM
Cleaned up the wording on a bunch of the features.

Nice. It's clear and consise now.

Ugganaut
2016-10-08, 01:41 AM
A lot cleaner looking. So you're intending a possible +5d8 from that 1 ki? That seems rather hefty.

DracoKnight
2016-10-08, 01:48 AM
A lot cleaner looking. So you're intending a possible +5d8 from that 1 ki? That seems rather hefty.

Ah, 4d8, I meant turn - not round. And for 2 Ki Four Elements gives 3d10. This would be roughly the same. 2 Ki (1 for Flurry, 1 to Soul Charge) but you have to hit all 4 attacks to see the full rewards, unlike with Four Elements.

EDIT: Fixed it.

Ugganaut
2016-10-08, 03:16 AM
Ah, 4d8, I meant turn - not round. And for 2 Ki Four Elements gives 3d10. This would be roughly the same. 2 Ki (1 for Flurry, 1 to Soul Charge) but you have to hit all 4 attacks to see the full rewards, unlike with Four Elements.

EDIT: Fixed it.

Are you talking about Unbroken Air? Thats a ranged save attack, so doesn't have the monks unarmed damage on top (or chance to crit or gain advantage).
Fangs of the Fire Snake is closer. 1 ki to activate(reach 10ft/fire), and then 1 ki per +1d10 fire. So with Flurry, thats 6 ki for +4d10 fire at reach 10ft. So if you limited it to 1 ki per attack, thats 5 ki for +4d10 force. Slightly more cost effective that Fangs, but you have the better damage type, and no reach, so I think thats balanced.

DracoKnight
2016-10-08, 03:27 AM
Are you talking about Unbroken Air? Thats a ranged save attack, so doesn't have the monks unarmed damage on top (or chance to crit or gain advantage).
Fangs of the Fire Snake is closer. 1 ki to activate(reach 10ft/fire), and then 1 ki per +1d10 fire. So with Flurry, thats 6 ki for +4d10 fire at reach 10ft. So if you limited it to 1 ki per attack, thats 5 ki for +4d10 force. Slightly more cost effective that Fangs, but you have the better damage type, and no reach, so I think thats balanced.

I was referring to Water Whip, actually, which I believe is a save.

Personally, I think it's fine as it currently is. Playtesting should start soon, though.

Ugganaut
2016-10-08, 04:19 AM
Let us know how it goes :)

DracoKnight
2016-10-08, 01:07 PM
Let us know how it goes :)

In the meantime if you have any further thought for this archetype, please share them ^_^

GandalfTheWhite
2016-10-08, 01:30 PM
Fangs of the Fire Snake is closer. 1 ki to activate(reach 10ft/fire), and then 1 ki per +1d10 fire. So with Flurry, thats 6 ki for +4d10 fire at reach 10ft. So if you limited it to 1 ki per attack, thats 5 ki for +4d10 force. Slightly more cost effective that Fangs, but you have the better damage type, and no reach, so I think thats balanced.

With the way everyone complains about the Way of the Four Elements, let's not be balancing anything based on it, okay?

DracoKnight
2016-10-09, 10:04 AM
With the way everyone complains about the Way of the Four Elements, let's not be balancing anything based on it, okay?

No need to get snippy.

But yes, I would rather like to avoid balancing the Way of the Soulknife based on the Four Elements Monk.

Sicarius Victis
2016-10-09, 01:57 PM
Honestly, there's not much point using two blades at a time besides flavour, except for those people who want the extra AC from the feat. And since you can only dual-wield light blades, whether or not you have the feat, there's really not much point in getting the feat besides that. Maybe allowing someone to dual-wield weapons without the light property if they have the feat might be a decent idea?

Ring of Blades gets a 20-foot range? IIRC, Sword Burst was written as having a 5-foot range, amounting to it hitting every target within 5 feet of you. Going that way, that would cause Ring of Blades to hit EVERYBODY WITHIN 20 FEET OF YOU. Was that how it's intended to work? Because that kind of feels like a lot to me.

It also feels like they get a lot at 17th level. Don't quite remember what Truesight did, but it seems alright. Advantage on all mental saves feels like a lot, but is really just an enhanced version of a 1st-level racial feature, so that one could be considered either really strong or really weak. And they get the Ring of Blades upgrade, which I mentioned earlier. IMO all the abilities are fine on their own, I'm just not sure if they should get all of them together.



Also, does anyone actually USE the official Way of Four Elements? That'a not even entirely intended as an insult, it's a legitimate question.

DracoKnight
2016-10-09, 02:39 PM
Thank you for taking the time to respond.


Honestly, there's not much point using two blades at a time besides flavour, except for those people who want the extra AC from the feat. And since you can only dual-wield light blades, whether or not you have the feat, there's really not much point in getting the feat besides that. Maybe allowing someone to dual-wield weapons without the light property if they have the feat might be a decent idea?

I can incorporate this.


Ring of Blades gets a 20-foot range? IIRC, Sword Burst was written as having a 5-foot range, amounting to it hitting every target within 5 feet of you. Going that way, that would cause Ring of Blades to hit EVERYBODY WITHIN 20 FEET OF YOU. Was that how it's intended to work? Because that kind of feels like a lot to me.

It is how that's intended to work. Putting it up against potentially one-shorting the tarrasque or an ancient dragon.


It also feels like they get a lot at 17th level. Don't quite remember what Truesight did, but it seems alright. Advantage on all mental saves feels like a lot, but is really just an enhanced version of a 1st-level racial feature, so that one could be considered either really strong or really weak. And they get the Ring of Blades upgrade, which I mentioned earlier. IMO all the abilities are fine on their own, I'm just not sure if they should get all of them together.

True sight is darkvision + devil's sight + blindsight plus.


Also, does anyone actually USE the official Way of Four Elements? That'a not even entirely intended as an insult, it's a legitimate question.

My group does.

Sicarius Victis
2016-10-09, 10:49 PM
So, the Soulknife can blast everyone within 20 feet of them for 4d10 damage, Dex save for half at will when they get to higher levels? Though they get somewhat decreased single-target damage capability while using that, it's still quite poweful. This basically makes them a god at crowd control.

To be honest, they really do get a lot at 17th level. I'm not sure if it's more than they should, but that's really how it feels.

When your Blade is in a specific form, does it gain all of the weapon effects of that form? If so, does that include damage?

Soul Charged basically feels alright. It would generally function as 1 Ki for 3d8 extra damage. IF you hit with all three attacks. If the extra damage was guaranteed, it'd probably be a bit too powerful, but the miss chance balances it out pretty well.

The Way of the Four Elements isn't all that bad, really. It's got some neat abilities, and it's got some useful abilities. The two main problems with it are just how using the abilities burns through your Ki like crazy, and you only get the option of four different abilities at a time at high levels, IIRC. But this is getting away from the point of this thread, and I've probably wasted too much on this already.

Quintus Vorenus
2016-10-10, 08:31 AM
I really like the way you are going with this, however i do think that the 17th level ability is a bit too passive, i would keep the vision buff and change the resistance to an active option.

Anyways, gongratulations!

DracoKnight
2016-10-10, 02:41 PM
I really like the way you are going with this, however i do think that the 17th level ability is a bit too passive, i would keep the vision buff and change the resistance to an active option.

Anyways, gongratulations!

What would you give them at 17th level? :smallsmile:

DracoKnight
2016-10-13, 02:16 PM
Are there any further comments?

DracoKnight
2016-10-14, 06:58 PM
If there are no more comments or concerns, I think it's safe to say that this is finished, and ready for playtesting.

Llama513
2016-10-26, 05:56 PM
I really look forward to testing this class out it looks awesome

DracoKnight
2016-10-26, 06:52 PM
I really look forward to testing this class out it looks awesome

I would be interested to hear how it plays after you've used it :smallbiggrin: