2nd Reaction for Protection Fighting Style?

[Jeebs]

Has anyone tried tweaking Protection to grant a second reaction that can only be used for the Disadvantage mechanic? I'd like to find a way to make Protection more appealing compared to Dueling. This way the ability would synergize with, rather than compete with Sentinel, Shield Master, and Opportunity Attacks (especially for the Paladin with Smite/Improved Smite).

I guess you're not necessarily supposed to be able to use your Reaction every single round (and maybe that's part of the appeal WotC intended for the Fighting Style). But I also like the idea of Protection being better against multi-attackers, as you could protect someone with each of your Reactions. And I imagine plenty of people would still take Dueling or even Defense over this improved version of Protection.

[Falcon X]

No recommendations. I think protection style is useful and popular as it stands. Depends largely on what build and team composition you have.

[ad_hoc]

Has anyone tried tweaking Protection to grant a second reaction that can only be used for the Disadvantage mechanic? I'd like to find a way to make Protection more appealing compared to Dueling. This way the ability would synergize with, rather than compete with Sentinel, Shield Master, and Opportunity Attacks (especially for the Paladin with Smite/Improved Smite).

I guess you're not necessarily supposed to be able to use your Reaction every single round (and maybe that's part of the appeal WotC intended for the Fighting Style). But I also like the idea of Protection being better against multi-attackers, as you could protect someone with each of your Reactions. And I imagine plenty of people would still take Dueling or even Defense over this improved version of Protection.

Protection is usually best against multi-attackers. It is weakest against small creatures that only have 1 attack.

Taking Protection means that you don't need to take Sentinel to find something to do with your reaction and can spend that ASI on better stats. Sentinel's reaction also just gives you an attack against a creature. I would much rather give disadvantage to a big creature who is attacking an ally than to deal a few points of damage.

[Mjolnirbear]

I'm considering the following houserule:

"When an attack from a creature you can see hits an ally within 5 feet of you..."

It allows you to use it with more discretion. To me, it adds a hint of realism. You're not gonna interpose your shield for an attack going the wrong way. You see the strike coming and head it off.




I've been using this houserule, but in my current campaign no one uses protection

Add "...if you have the enemy Marked, this does not cost your reaction."

[bid]

Protection is usually best against multi-attackers. It is weakest against small creatures that only have 1 attack.
Quite the opposite.

It impose disadvantage on a single attack.

[Specter]

That would make it go from up to op.

[MeeposFire]

The reaction cost is not really the problem. Sure it is one cost but it is a cost I am willing to pay for the effect. The real problem are all the restrictions on the ability. People I have played with have a lot of trouble getting something out of it due to all of the restrictions.

Also multi attackers make you feel worse since it only works on one attack (which is just one of the examples of a restriction on the ability). On this board more often than not people that seem to like this ability tend to have missed or purposely get rid of one or more of its restrictions which makes the ability a bit better (not all of course but many I have seen).

[ad_hoc]

Quite the opposite.

It impose disadvantage on a single attack.

I am well aware of what it does. I didn't say that it imposes disadvantage on multiple attacks.

It is best against big multi-attackers and worst against small, weaker enemies.

Take a look at a giant. They have 2 attacks that each deal a ton of damage. Imposing disadvantage on one of their attacks greatly cuts down on their offense. Compare that to causing disadvantage on 1 enemy out of a hoard of weaker enemies. I want to impose disadvantage on the attack that will hit for 30 damage, not 7.

[LordoftheMilk]

I found this on another website:

Protection Fighting Style: Replace with: When a creature you can see hits a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to force a reroll of the attack. If you are wielding a shield, that reroll is done with disadvantage.


When used in combination with the Mark optional rule from the DMG, it solves most of the issues with the current printed version of the Protection Fighting style: 1 reaction, effectiveness, opportunity use when multiple attacks by opponents.

[MeeposFire]

I am well aware of what it does. I didn't say that it imposes disadvantage on multiple attacks.

It is best against big multi-attackers and worst against small, weaker enemies.

Take a look at a giant. They have 2 attacks that each deal a ton of damage. Imposing disadvantage on one of their attacks greatly cuts down on their offense. Compare that to causing disadvantage on 1 enemy out of a hoard of weaker enemies. I want to impose disadvantage on the attack that will hit for 30 damage, not 7.

Well then you said it wrong. You said it was great on multi attackers. What you really meant is that it is great on high damage attack monsters (which may or may not have multi attack). This I think we would agree with you.

[djreynolds]

You have to look at styles like this and really compare it to the duelist style. Archery +2 to hit is separate

every time you hit, a flat +2 damage from duelist

GW style reroll 1' and 2's

defensive +1 AC

protection style can be very powerful if it turns say a hit that would have kill outright, say a crit or big damage.. for the sake argument lets say around 20hp.

Where as say a fighter/paladin/ranger level 5, is adding +2 twice a turn, 4hp

So if you are going to be using protection at least every 5 turns then it is great, but if you only get to use it here and there, it may not mean as much

IMO, humbly IMO, protection may get stronger as you level up and that +2 flat damage (which is still good) begins to wane a bit versus high HP monsters that hit hard, which you may face now.

A champion might select protection at say level 10 as he is facing beasts that do hit hard and really holding down the line as other PCs kill the beast, good to have for the rogue who decides to stay in combat or the caster in melee who has a concentration spell up and going.

You could homebrew a solution, that a fighter can use his intelligence modifier halved when trying to sort out how many reactions he could get for protection.

Protection style is very team dependent

[Citan]

Has anyone tried tweaking Protection to grant a second reaction that can only be used for the Disadvantage mechanic? I'd like to find a way to make Protection more appealing compared to Dueling. This way the ability would synergize with, rather than compete with Sentinel, Shield Master, and Opportunity Attacks (especially for the Paladin with Smite/Improved Smite).

I guess you're not necessarily supposed to be able to use your Reaction every single round (and maybe that's part of the appeal WotC intended for the Fighting Style). But I also like the idea of Protection being better against multi-attackers, as you could protect someone with each of your Reactions. And I imagine plenty of people would still take Dueling or even Defense over this improved version of Protection.
If you want to tweak up the Style without complexity, may I suggest another change?
When a creature{...}, you can use your reaction to create a protection with your shield: all attacks of this creature against the target are made at a disadvantage until the start of your next turn.

This does not change fundamentally the fluff (you protect one ally from one creature attacking) nor the action economy (still only one reaction, no pain to track) but makes the Protection more powerful at higher levels against powerful creatures that get several attacks.

EDIT: I may have misread, in fact you'd prefer the style being usable against several creatures? In that case your change is probably the easiest.

[djreynolds]

I like what Citan is laying down, its more of a buddy combo this way.

Because what if your partner is within 5ft and the moves, etc.

What if you could homebrew an addition to an existing feat?

If you have the protection style and sentinel, for instance, you may give up your attacks to provide disadvantage to all attacks to 1 or 2 (unsure) party members within 5feet but you could still use your reaction to the attack someone who has struck an ally within 5 feet.

This way you are still giving up something, but get some in return.

[dropbear8mybaby]

You could always give it the Mark mechanic from the DMG?