[3.5] Mailman Sorcerer questions

[Chronikoce]

So I think I might finally have the chance to be a player in an upcoming game and I was thinking it would be fun to finally try out the Mailman build (I can't use it as a DM, my players are a bit too un-optimized and that damage output coming at them would be game over pretty quick). The last two times I got the chance to be a player I was a God Wizard and a Undead Minionmancer so I am looking for a change of pace to just some good old fashioned blasting.

There are a few things I don't quite understand though

Incantatrix schools specialization as a sorcerer: It says you need to ban a school otherwise you can't benefit from the specialization. As a mailman do you care about specialization enough to do this? If the answer is yes then I imagine you ban Enchantment and don't look back.

Are there any level ranges that will be severely lacking for the mailman? It seems like you really power up later but can still contribute early which is what I am looking for.

Could you list a few specific metamagic + spell combos that one would fire off at various levels such as lvl 4, 8, 12. Not the super cheesy ones though, just more standard fare that are less likely to make non-optimizers throw a book at me.

Resource-wise I should have no trouble getting access to SC, Dragon Magic (For the human template, kobold is probably not going to fly), the Faerun stuff (Incantatrix will be a maybe and if that isn't approved I'll probably play something else), completes, and core. Dragon Mag stuff is almost certainly a no.

Thanks for the advice!

[Douglas]

Incantatrix schools specialization as a sorcerer: It says you need to ban a school otherwise you can't benefit from the specialization. As a mailman do you care about specialization enough to do this? If the answer is yes then I imagine you ban Enchantment and don't look back.
You don't actually get a school specialization from it, you just ban a school. It's a pure negative, a cost of taking the Incantatrix class, and is not optional.


Could you list a few specific metamagic + spell combos that one would fire off at various levels such as lvl 4, 8, 12. Not the super cheesy ones though, just more standard fare that are less likely to make non-optimizers throw a book at me.
Orb of [insert energy type here] from Spell Compendium are among the most reliable single target blasting spells out there, available from level 8 and up for a Sorcerer. Orb of Fire has the best non-damage extra effect but is also the most commonly resisted. It may be worth getting Energy Substitution to keep Orb of Fire's daze while dealing a different damage type.

[Mato]

Could you list a few specific metamagic + spell combos that one would fire off at various levels such as lvl 4, 8, 12. Not the super cheesy ones though, just more standard fare that are less likely to make non-optimizers throw a book at me.In the early levels quick increases to your caster level are the easiest ways to go.

Once you gain a few levels combust is one of the go to 2nd level touch spells, it deals 1d10 per CL. Kelgore's grave mist is also a really nice damage-over-time effect. As a sorcerer you will have no reason to use an orb of anything, just use wings of flurry since it can hit multiple enemies, has the best save or fail, and it's not even limited to fifteen dice like the orbs are. By the time you have access to fifth level spells you can start using arcane fusion which will very based on what you choose to do at the first level. If you kept your familial you should stick to sharing lightning leap for 20d6+ damage per casting, if you got rid of it so you can cast a couple metamagic spells without changing their action then you can add metamagic effects into arcane fusion which can be nice. The full twin/repeat combo takes several more levels to pull off through since you need the fourth level of incantatrix to even start trying to use it.

To be honest, you need to see if you can get access to dragonlance. It's campaign setting book has reserves of strength which is very powerful with touch spells or a way to ignore stunning effects. It also has Dalamar's lightning lance which deals your normal +1d6 per caster level and an extra +3d6 on top of that and at the 10th and 15th levels you get additional lances to throw, up to 39d6 from a single 4th level slot or 54d6 when combined with reserves of strength. Finally, in one of dragonlance's supplements is a war mage prestige class that gives you a limited effect of adding +3 damage per die rolled that you can enter once you obtained incantatrix's metamagic effect and it works very will with persist spell. For example if you use a ring of mystic fire and energy admixture with fire shield, creatures striking you will take an average of 90 damage per hit.

[Chronikoce]

I'll look into Dragonlance, I'm not sure I can get that approved though. Are there other ways of getting immune to stunning outside of that?

If it helps there is like a 70% chance that this character will be played in the age of worms AP

[Mato]

I'll look into Dragonlance, I'm not sure I can get that approved though. Are there other ways of getting immune to stunning outside of that?It sounds like you misunderstood me. Reserves of strength can provide up to a +3 bonus to your caster level, breaking any die caps of the spell, but it stuns you for up to three rounds after using it.

Power word pain can be useful is the party is willing to back up but from level 1~3 it is hard to find a good source of damage outside of just finding ways to increase your caster level.


If it helps there is like a 70% chance that this character will be played in the age of worms API'm not familiar with the adventure but if I'm not mistaken your start around level one and finish at level twenty so you'll be able to take full advantage of a the twin & repeat metamagics.

[Blackhawk748]

Magic Missile and Scorching Ray are old standbys for a reason. Mostly cuz of multi target shenanigans.

[Chronikoce]

Ah OK I see what you're saying. Yeah the low levels boosting CL would be nice.

As for age of worms it's very undead focused from what I've read (while trying to avoid too many spoilers) which is why I figured this was a nice time to break this out since undead are immune to a lot of debuff spells anyway.

[Exocist]

There's a thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)) on the mailman.

Consensus:

Early game blasting isn't much to write home about. Grease and Colour spray are probably still better than blasting. Magic Missile can be useful, but not until later. Your best blasting is probably just a heavy crossbow.

If your DM allows it, you can use Eschew Materials to get a Gargantuan Bolt (6 SP - still less than 1GP), and use Launch Bolt (The Cantrip) to deal 4d6 damage.

----------

At Fourth Level, you get access to:

- Alter Self (Trogdolyte for damage)
- Scorching Ray/Seeking Ray (They're both good, Scorching ray a bit later though).
- Acid Arrow if you ever get the chance to have a ridiculous range advantage.
- Combust

Still not that great, but your second level spells can actually take out a fair bit of HPS.

----------

At Sixth, you get:

- Fireball (The old favourite)

And that's about it. If you don't have Acid Arrow you can pick up Unicorn Arrow instead. Take utility spells as the Rest.

----------

At Eighth, you get:

- Orb of Fire

AND/OR

- Wings of Flurry

Take your pick, because you're going to be tricking the **** out of one of them.

---------------


The Feats:

(suggested from the build)

1)Iron Will
3)Maximize Spell (If playing from low levels initially (under 10), you may want to go Empower here instead, but this becomes awk later)
6)Practical Metamagic: Maximize
7-Incant) Enlarge Spell
9)Force of Personality
10-Incant) Invisible Spell
12)Quick Recovery (LoM; good for Celerity) (you may or may not wish to invert 9 with 12)
13-Incant) Twin Spell
15)Practical Metamagic: Twin
16-Incant) Ocular Spell (LoM, wacky fun)
18)Empower Spell

[Chronikoce]

You don't actually get a school specialization from it, you just ban a school. It's a pure negative, a cost of taking the Incantatrix class, and is not optional.

I just read through the class ability again and it really sounds like you do get the benefits associated with abjuration specialization. I could be misinterpreting the entry though.

[Douglas]

Are you looking at the version in Magic of Faerun? That one's the old 3.0 edition version of the class. For the 3.5e version, check Player's Guide to Faerun.

[Cruiser1]

As a sorcerer you will have no reason to use an orb of anything, just use wings of flurry since it can hit multiple enemies, has the best save or fail, and it's not even limited to fifteen dice like the orbs are.
Wings of Flurry is indeed one of the best Sorcerer damage spells in the game, however there are still some advantages the Orb spells have over it. Unlike Wings of Flurry, Orb spells are "SR: No", so can hit spell immune monsters, targets in antimagic fields, and so on. Unlike Wings of Flurry, Orb spells aren't Evocation school, which means the Spelldancer PrC can apply its powerful metamagic reduction to it. Orb spells have much greater range too.

[Douglas]

targets in antimagic fields
That part's because they're instantaneous conjurations, actually.

[Chronikoce]

Are you looking at the version in Magic of Faerun? That one's the old 3.0 edition version of the class. For the 3.5e version, check Player's Guide to Faerun.

I was, thanks for pointing out the difference. I'm not super familiar with faerun I didn't realize it was in two places.

As for wings vs orbs. Yeah, I plan to grab 1 orb + energy swapping to deal with nasty high SR baddies. But I'll still grab wings of cover as well.

[Anthrowhale]

Lower levels are the weak point of a Mailman. Primitive Caster and Frozen Magic are two other feats that can help early on with caster level. Flaws can really help. Power Word: Pain as discussed is also exceptional for the first few levels.

At level 5, take the Planar substitution level to make all damage half force.

At higher levels, Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion] and Arcane Thesis[Greater Arcane Fusion] combined with Twin Spell are more efficient & effective than the standard build. Twin GAF[Twin AF[L4, L1], L4] can crank out quite a bit of damage. Depending on circumstances, you might also consider Arcane Thesis[some L1 spell].

There is a metamagic feat called 'Slimy Spell' (+1 metamagic) in Dragon 358 which adds a refl save or nauseate for 1 round. Undead are not immune to Refl saves or nausea.

If you can Shapechange into Tome Dragon [Dragon 343] or Polymorph + Assume Supernatural Ability, you can knock several levels off metamagic costs.

[Mato]

Wings of Flurry is indeed one of the best Sorcerer damage spells in the game, however there are still some advantages the Orb spells have over it. Unlike Wings of Flurry, Orb spells are "SR: No", so can hit spell immune monsters, targets in antimagic fields, and so on. Unlike Wings of Flurry, Orb spells aren't Evocation school, which means the Spelldancer PrC can apply its powerful metamagic reduction to it. Orb spells have much greater range too.Incorporeal is far more common than golems and antimagic combined but you lost me when you implied spending additional turns dancing, offering your opponents multiple rounds to cause you to fail or die, was a good idea.



The Feats: (suggested from the build)
1)Iron Will
3)Maximize Spell (If playing from low levels initially (under 10), you may want to go Empower here instead, but this becomes awk later)
6)Practical Metamagic: Maximize
7-Incant) Enlarge Spell
9)Force of Personality
10-Incant) Invisible Spell
12)Quick Recovery (LoM; good for Celerity) (you may or may not wish to invert 9 with 12)
13-Incant) Twin Spell
15)Practical Metamagic: Twin
16-Incant) Ocular Spell (LoM, wacky fun)
18)Empower SpellReplace your 9th level feat with rapid metamagic or you cannot use metamagic feats with arcane fusion (see errata).

Empower vs maximize vs admixture is also like a wings vs orb discussion. If you use incantatrix to pay for the costs and look into persist spell using admixture with spells like fire shield, wreath of flames, or a stolen stormrage provides a higher rate of damage than the others with more optimization choices. If you get into +1 per die effects, example adding cold spell specialization to the suggestion of frozen magic, empower is cheaper and adds more damage than the other will.

You also don't have to take ten levels in incantatrix, three is enough since metamagic effect is the goal. If you're willing to lose a level of casting stormcaster's ability to add a save vs stun to every blasting spell you cast is regarded as a means to combine blasting and god style of play simultaneously.

[ericgrau]

There's a thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)) on the mailman.

Consensus:

Early game blasting isn't much to write home about. Grease Sleep and Colour spray are probably still better than blasting.
Grease is overhyped garbage that mainly relies on DM's not knowing about crawling or staying down and even then it isn't that great. Ya color spray is better than low level damage. But you can get by pretty well with shocking grasp, burning hands and flaming sphere. Level 1 both options suck hard. Level 2+ shocking grasp can reliably 1 hit kill many foes, plus if you miss you can hold the charge, plus even if it's not dead an ally can finish it off that much easier. Also superb to give to your familiar for free round 1 damage before you cast. Later even empower it and hand it off. Burning hands is ok against groups. All 3 spells put you in harms way so low level defenses are nice. Flaming sphere DoT adds up and combos well with web (as does burning hands). Not ideal but these can help the OP reach level 6 to begin the real stuff. Especially if his build is already boosting his damage.

Orb spells and non-fire are nice for level 8-10+ but before that I wouldn't worry too much about resistance. Outside of baby fire elementals, fire or whatever type will work on just about everything, even resistant things won't resist much.

[Cruiser1]

you lost me when you implied spending additional turns dancing, offering your opponents multiple rounds to cause you to fail or die, was a good idea.
Indeed, a Spelldancer shouldn't dance during combat, but rather ahead of time. Take the feat Ocular Spell, and you can charge up a massively metamagiced nuke before combat, such as a Maximized Empowered Twin Repeat Energy Admixture Orb of Fire. You can delay the spell in your eyes for up to 8 hours, and release it in a single round once combat begins. :smallsmile: