PDA

View Full Version : Villain idea... Inspired by Ratatouille



Skyserpent
2007-07-10, 04:03 AM
So let's say we have this legendary Lich villain who ravages villages and does the stuff that all crazy evil unead crazies do to earn themselves an evil reputation.

But it turns out that what is actually happening is that it's an Awakened Rat who is living inside of the skull of a favored undead! He casts his spells through the eyes of his minion and his Raven Familiar speaks for him so that no one can find out he has a comically squeaky voice... He carries around a fake phylactery to maintain the illusion of lichdom and thus, fool the populace and the PCs to come back in another undead's skull to torment them later... Also, maybe he'd dress the undead in big ol' heavy armors and stuff so that he can come off as more intimidating, and still cast completely normally thus adding a bit more scary to the deal. and: Bonus! he'd have a roomier apartment if he can wander around the levels of the armor...

Any thoughts? Would this utterly ruin the moment for the PCs to have been fighting a really smart rodent this whole time? or would it be a good laugh? or would it be actually sorta kinda neat? Testing the waters here for my next campaign.

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-10, 04:10 AM
Personally I think it's up there with the use of animate object on a corpse. It's just a neat angle to take that'll hit your players from a funny angle even on a metagame level.

B!shop
2007-07-10, 04:13 AM
Ingenious, really!

I'm curious to see the faces of the players when they'll discover what is their enemies :smallbiggrin:

By the way, you should probably add some more clever idea to disguise it, maybe some more allies to it (cohorts?), or maybe it is formerly the familiar of some wizard.

I'm still grinning at the idea, I'll probably borrow it asap :smalltongue:

Yiel
2007-07-10, 04:14 AM
O_O That is SUCH a rat thing to do. (I own pet rats) I think its brilliant idea.

JellyPooga
2007-07-10, 05:37 AM
Hee hee hee...I like it.

I can imagine this rat having several skeletal "rooms" for different times of day...

"Hmm, I think I'll retire to my evening skull" [walks into a dragon skull with some comfy furniture, a little fire at one end and a cupboard full of cheese]

mikeejimbo
2007-07-10, 06:58 AM
And skill points in Profession(Cook).

Then he cooks and eats his enemies, for a macabre twist.

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-10, 08:38 AM
It'd probably be a bit too big, but I could see a talking cat pull the same thing :P

hewhosaysfish
2007-07-10, 08:53 AM
The only problem I can see is: if the party barbarian scores a crit on the skeles skull with a 2-handed hammer. Splat! No more rat.
We would have to make sure to hold up all the party with a swarm of minions while he blasts them with spells and when they get close he escapes invisibly, leaving the "lich" to face the music. Just hope the party don't notice that their enemy doesn't even try casting defensively in melee.

kpenguin
2007-07-10, 09:00 AM
The only problem I can see is: if the party barbarian scores a crit on the skeles skull with a 2-handed hammer. Splat! No more rat.


How exactly would the barb crit the skull?

1) You can't crit an undead
2) There's no mechanic for called shots.

This is a mighty good idea, btw. He should also keep a bunch of other rats around him as decoys.

Ossian
2007-07-10, 09:11 AM
The only problem I can see is: if the party barbarian scores a crit on the skeles skull with a 2-handed hammer. Splat! No more rat.
We would have to make sure to hold up all the party with a swarm of minions while he blasts them with spells and when they get close he escapes invisibly, leaving the "lich" to face the music. Just hope the party don't notice that their enemy doesn't even try casting defensively in melee.

Adamantine shatter proof skull (just in case you house ruled you can make called shots). Extra DR and stuff...A bit like Koji Kabuto inside the head of the Mazinger!

Wonderful villain concept, refreshingly original.

Ossian

Rakin
2007-07-10, 11:40 AM
So let's say we have this legendary Lich villain who ravages villages and does the stuff that all crazy evil unead crazies do to earn themselves an evil reputation.

But it really turns out that he's out to prove that "anyone can cook" and instead of raveging the countryside just to see how evil he can be he's whipping up a gormet meal for the dark underlord gods of the void.

First ingredient: Spice made from the shavings of virgin toenails

...well you get the idea

I guess this is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread.

Rakin
2007-07-10, 11:40 AM
So let's say we have this legendary Lich villain who ravages villages and does the stuff that all crazy evil unead crazies do to earn themselves an evil reputation.

But it really turns out that he's out to prove that "anyone can cook" and instead of raveging the countryside just to see how evil he can be he's whipping up a gormet meal for the dark underlord gods of the void.

First ingredient: Spice made from the shavings of virgin toenails

...well you get the idea

I guess this is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread.

Dausuul
2007-07-10, 12:33 PM
Any thoughts? Would this utterly ruin the moment for the PCs to have been fighting a really smart rodent this whole time? or would it be a good laugh? or would it be actually sorta kinda neat? Testing the waters here for my next campaign.

As long as the campaign's overall tone is light and humorous, this would be a great finale. A serious, epic-style campaign would be ruined, however. It's all in matching the villain to the setting.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-07-10, 12:35 PM
Must... Resist... Urge... to...

*Yoinks*

MUST USE IT!

Great idea, I will use it, if you don't mind.

penguinreich
2007-07-10, 12:36 PM
In his lair I'd fill it with rats, in cozy little rooms and nests. So the PC's are thinking 'what's with all the rats' then later they realize those were the main rats advisors and concubines. Oh how the hilarity will ensue.

Belteshazzar
2007-07-10, 03:11 PM
Amusingly he could probably have a rat as a familiar as well leading to even more confusion when both rats begin casting spells at once. Combine this with the rats in the lair and give him all skeletal or mummified (seasoned and jerked) minions (Why waste good meat on zombies?) for a legendary quest that starts in the cellar of the first tavern and leads to the demiplane of the foul Demigod Skaven

nooblade
2007-07-10, 05:00 PM
Mirror image wouldn't be as much fun. If I were you, I'd make a lich-rat that can recover with the phylactery (placed on a random skeletal minion, inside the skull, inside a random cave, with the entrance collapsed so the pcs will never find it but the spellcaster can still get out) just so this would be a recurring villain.

That way, divination spells would also reveal that its a "lich" and not just a rat- wizard or something.

Skyserpent
2007-07-10, 05:03 PM
Amusingly he could probably have a rat as a familiar as well leading to even more confusion when both rats begin casting spells at once. Combine this with the rats in the lair and give him all skeletal or mummified (seasoned and jerked) minions (Why waste good meat on zombies?) for a legendary quest that starts in the cellar of the first tavern and leads to the demiplane of the foul Demigod Skaven

Hm... interesting approach, butI would probably try very hard to avoid letting the players know that they're dealing with a Rat so I think as many coverups as possible would be good... unless the Rat Familiar would be a decoy as someone else suggested.Then he can fake his own death! but taht would also damage his XP shares (which I know villains don't have) but I think the talking raven familiar works best...

Nonetheless we'd need something to keep up the bluff skill though... to Wizards have access to bluff?

Skyserpent
2007-07-10, 06:01 PM
Mirror image wouldn't be as much fun. If I were you, I'd make a lich-rat that can recover with the phylactery (placed on a random skeletal minion, inside the skull, inside a random cave, with the entrance collapsed so the pcs will never find it but the spellcaster can still get out) just so this would be a recurring villain.

That way, divination spells would also reveal that its a "lich" and not just a rat- wizard or something.

Which divination spell does that exactly?

And as good as Mirror Image is, I think our little friend can live without it... especially considering the opponent they're trying to hit is just a big mess of bones anyway!

Fhaolan
2007-07-10, 06:27 PM
*grin* Oh, the mental image.

The Lich puppet stands before the throne and points at the lead adventurer. The raven screeches 'You face your doom!', as the rat casts Magic Mirror without thinking it through. Suddenly the adventurers recoil in horror as furry lumps and tiny red eyes swirl around the skull. [Only parts of the images extend beyond the skull] "What madness is this?", yells the cleric.

Meanwhile the rat is slapping himself on the forehead, "No. Don't do that again... stupid.. stupid.. stupid.."

F.L.
2007-07-10, 08:07 PM
Give the rat a copy of THE COOKBOOK OF VILE DARKNESS, and you're set.

nooblade
2007-07-10, 08:28 PM
Which divination spell does that exactly?

I think that a regular old divination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divination.htm) spell would allow that. The cleric player asks "what is the most exploitable weakness of [fake-lich name]?" The divination magic would have to let the players know that its actually just a rat wizard.

I like the idea where the rat's actually a lich because that drawback wouldn't matter so much anymore. The divination would probably have to reveal something about the location of the phylactery, instead of the big secret, because the rat would just come back if they smashed it without finding the well-hidden phylactery. Maybe it would work the same for vampire, but that wouldn't have the same amount of fun to it.

I also happen to think that players who use divinations like this should be rewarded (just not with plot elements that are more interesting to find out on the fly).

Another problem with the rat as it stands is: what happens when someone blasts at the undead housing it or even simply turns the undead? There's not even the presence of a lich, so the cleric might realize very quickly that something's wrong with a turning or a "detect undead" (which informs the caster of the power of the creature). I don't think that my idea would fix it for detect undead. Maybe more powerful undead would change things? I don't don't have anything outside of core so I wouldn't know what to use, really.

One cool thing about this is that the rat could use multiple undead as a "host" for it, which might be required since regular ones would die awefully quickly. That would be almost like mirror image, especially if the undead were already full of rats.

If things do go wrong, then it can always scurry through a rat hole. I'd love to see what pcs do about that.

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-10, 09:16 PM
Give the rat a copy of THE COOKBOOK OF VILE DARKNESS, and you're set.

"First, gather up 3 fresh orphan hearts."

Callix
2007-07-10, 09:16 PM
Awesome idea. May I sugest instead of The Cookbook of Vile Darkness, which is a very cleric book (it hurts arcane casters to read the recipes), that he instead owns The Arcanist's Cookbook? Kudos to anyone who gets both references.
Also, make the guardian undead something a bit more powerful than a straight humanoid zombie, with either Arcane Devotee (Death or anything with Create (Greater) Udead) or Control Undead. That way, Detect Undead will still show it as a strong undead creature. Also, mess with the diviner's head. What's his greatest weakness? Chocolate. He'll do anything for enough chocolate. Then watch as they try to dip the shell in melted chocolate and the rat just casts a sealing spell on the skull and snacks out.

BRC
2007-07-10, 09:18 PM
Maybe a clockwork construct that is controlled by an awakened hamster on a wheel

RedScholarGypsy
2007-07-10, 09:30 PM
Awesome idea. May I sugest instead of The Cookbook of Vile Darkness, which is a very cleric book (it hurts arcane casters to read the recipes), that he instead owns The Arcanist's Cookbook? Kudos to anyone who gets both references.

I see anarchist's cookbook, but don't see the other.

As for the idea, it's incredible. My dm would love the mind-eff value. I'd play alone just to be in on the joke :smallamused:.

As for spells and such, if the rat itself isn't undead, but is inside the undead, how would that affect will-saves, crit-immunity, and actually having a Con score? We've done enough random stuff and have it work to actually try this.