Glaivelock initiator

[weckar]

So I was thinking: Glaivelocks have the potential to do a pretty decent amount of damage in melee, but lack the versatility of the Initiator classes. I want to remedy this to a degree - maybe.

Frankly, it'd just be cool to play. But I have a few questions.


Can I actually even use Eldritch Glaive as a weapon for strikes?
PrC levels count as full initiator levels. What is the earliest possible PrC an Initiator 1/ Warlock X count enter? Cheese welcome if needed.
What would be the best way to keep both maneauvers and EB damage advanced?


Thanks in advance. Badassitude awaits.

[khadgar567]

So I was thinking: Glaivelocks have the potential to do a pretty decent amount of damage in melee, but lack the versatility of the Initiator classes. I want to remedy this to a degree - maybe.

Frankly, it'd just be cool to play. But I have a few questions.


Can I actually even use Eldritch Glaive as a weapon for strikes?
PrC levels count as full initiator levels. What is the earliest possible PrC an Initiator 1/ Warlock X count enter? Cheese welcome if needed.
What would be the best way to keep both maneuvers and EB damage advanced?


Thanks in advance. Badassitude awaits.
not on expert initiating stuff but you might want to check zaydos's dread vulture prc ( which I specifically request martial theurge for warlock ) other thrn ı dont know anything vanilla giving warlock initiating

[weckar]

Thanks anyway. :smallsmile:

I already requested a move to the 3.5 subforum as I accidentally posted it here. I think there's a few more specialised bright know-it-alls swimming there :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

Eldritch Glaive won't function with strikes, but boosts ought to work just fine.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Moved. Please post system-specific questions in their system folder.

[Darrin]

1. No. Eldritch Glaive is a full-round SLA. Unless you're doing some action economy abuse, all you have left is a swift action. Boosts and counters should still work, though.

2. General consensus is the only PrCs that advance maneuvers are those that explicitly say they do. So only the ToB PrCs (except Bloodstorm Blade). You don't specify what you're trying to qualify for, so I'm not sure how to answer your question... Oh, I think you mean any PrC? Shadow Sun Ninja is the easiest, you could get in with Warlock 4/Swordsage 1.

3. Illumian with Improved Sigil: Krau. Duskblade 1/Warlock 4/Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Something 4. Maybe finish off with Abjurant Champion 4, Hellfire Warlock 3/Spellsword 1, or Eldritch Theurge 4.

Warlock 4/Crusader 1 might be possible to get into JPM, but you need a bucketload of feats. Favored/Primary Contact for Concentration 9, then Magical Training + Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell + Improved Sigil: Krau for 2nd level spells.

[Soranar]

Since the glaive is a full round action, except for boosts and stances there's really not much you can get out of initiator classes

[weckar]

2. General consensus is the only PrCs that advance maneuvers are those that explicitly say they do.
I don't need to advance maneauvers, just advance IL. Which, according to p39, most prcs do.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't need to advance maneauvers, just advance IL. Which, according to p39, most prcs do.

Yeah, and it also says "See the prestige class descriptions in Chapter 5 for details." Chapter 5 elaborates that most of the prestige classes in that book advance IL, and the ones that do have a class feature written explicitly which says so.

[weckar]

Actually it says those advance maneuvers and stances... but I see your point.

[Ruethgar]

If you use the RAW reading of Bloodlines, you can get 5IL before ECL 2. Will be 2 levels behind but if you really need it it's not a bad option.

[weckar]

I'm sorry Ruethgar, you're going to have to explain this one to me. How, exactly?

[Troacctid]

There isn't really a RAW reading of bloodline levels, since the rules contradict themselves.

[Cerefel]

For the sake of everyone's sanity can we please leave bloodlines out of this?

A warlock initiator build requires either early entry shenanigans, or a bunch of actual spellcasting for PrC prereqs, neither of which is really ideal.

[A_S]

You can't qualify for Jade Phoenix Mage using Warlock levels, but you can probably advance your Eldritch Blast/Invocation progression with JPM if you qualify by other means. So your level split could be something like Wizard 1/Crusader 1/Warlock 4/JPM 2/Mindbender 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/JPM +8 with Precocious Apprentice for 2nd level spells and JPM advancing Warlock. Ends up "casting" as a 16th level Warlock, and gets IL 15.

As others have pointed out, strikes don't work with Eldritch Glaive, but there's plenty of decent maneuvers to take that would be useful.

This would sidestep the "what about non-ToB PrC's" question (though you'd get IL 17 if you go by the liberal reading of PrC advancement).

[Ruethgar]

I'm sorry Ruethgar, you're going to have to explain this one to me. How, exactly?

Bloodlines can only advance class level based abilities(which does not include ECL). I was thinking of my houserule that you actually have to pay for them all when I last commented. I would suggest you read over the bloodlines and come to your own conclusion with your DM on how they function.

Regardless of how you rule attaining Bloodline levels and how they interact with ECL. They would almost certainly advance IL if you had an initiator class. However, because it is not an initiator class they should also count as three non-initiator levels. So a Warlock 1/Bloodline 3/Crusader 1 has an IL of 6 and an ECL of 2 by RAW.

[Doc_Maynot]

Though, back on using EB on maneuvers, you could use the Eldritch Claws feat (Dragon #358), which lets you use a free action to form claws that deal damage as your "Normal Unarmed Strike + Eldritch Blast".

[weckar]

Interesting. I take it is no longer a touch attack then, though?

A_S, Any specific reason why we'd want mindbender or hellfire for this?

[Doc_Maynot]

Interesting. I take it is no longer a touch attack then, though?

A_S, Any specific reason why we'd want mindbender or hellfire for this?

Nope, no longer a touch attack unfortunately.
And while I can't speak for A_S, Mindbender can lead you into the Mindsight feat, granting you awareness of invisible enemies and enemies behind walls and such. Hellfire meanwhile helps you boost your damage, IIRC it even works on the claws.

[weckar]

I realize what mindbender and hellfire warlock can do, but I see little point tacking them on here if they don't advance the general purpose. Muddies the tea, ya know?

[A_S]

A_S, Any specific reason why we'd want mindbender or hellfire for this?
Hellfire Warlock because if you're trying to do damage with Eldritch Glaive, doing 6d6 more per hit is really good.

Mindbender just because Mindsight is good, it's easy to qualify for and advances Warlock, and there was a spare level. You could replace it with anything.

[Cerefel]

If you're okay with using Precocious Apprentice to qualify for JPM why not just use take Magical Training instead of a level in Wizard?

[Troacctid]

Mindbender just because Mindsight is good, it's easy to qualify for and advances Warlock, and there was a spare level. You could replace it with anything.
It's actually not that easy to qualify for, as it costs you a valuable lesser invocation slot (or a feat slot for Aberrant Dragonmark) and requires you to burn a lot of skill points on a class that's already skill-starved. That's a non-trivial expenditure of resources; this isn't Ruathar. I don't think it's worth it if you're not actively boosting CHA and trying to be the party face.