Would this character be lawful?

[NecroDancer]

I'm working on a character for a modern magic campaign next month(year?) and I want him to be lawful. He always follows the law and try's never to break it but he also looks for loopholes in the law so he can help his friends. When he finds a loophole he almost never reports it unless the loophole could cause unneeded suffering to happen.

[beargryllz]

Lawful and non-good, but probably not evil and probably not *strongly* lawful. Skirting the rules more and more would push him into the neutral land of Law VS chaos

Good people wouldn't make a steady habit of exploiting the laws for selfish reasons

This character looks LN to me, but he could easily become True neutral during a long, tumultuous adventure

[Tanarii]

Here are the three typical, but not required to be constantly done, behaviors associated with 5e Lawful Alignments. See if any of them feel like a fit for your character concept.

Lawful good (LG) creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society.

Lawful neutral (LN) individuals act in accordance with law, tradition, or personal codes.

Lawful evil (LE) creatures methodically take what they want, within the limits of a code of tradition, loyalty, or order.

Also, have you decided on your other personality traits (Personality, Ideal, Bond, Flaw) already, or if not formal traits per the PHB, your informal motivations? Because that'd help us give you advice on alignment, since its hard to work out Alignment backwards from behavior without also knowing the other things that contribute to behavior.

[lunaticfringe]

Official Wizards what is my character's Alignment tool. Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fdnd%2F20001222b)

I took it as me. I follow the law but am willing to break it for friends & family.

Said I was Chaotic Good.

[Tanarii]

Official Wizards what is my character's Alignment tool. Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fdnd%2F20001222b)

I took it as me. I follow the law but am willing to break it for friends & family.

Said I was Chaotic Good.

That's a tool from 2000. It wouldn't apply to 5e Alignments.

[beargryllz]

That's a tool from 2000. It wouldn't apply to 5e Alignments.

In what possible way have they changed? Selfish is still evil, selfless is still good. Consistency is still lawful, improvisation is still chaotic.

Having said that, Wizards' alignment tool linked above is pretty crappy... Most of my answers on most of my characters would be "none of the above"

[lunaticfringe]

Yes but people who ask what Alignment is my character generally want a clearly defined answer like the old Alignment system provided. It's a tool someone could use. A lot of people still use 3.? Definitions, no one should care/notice the difference.

Asking people who didn't make your character what Alignment it is just as silly.

Role-play your background traits! That is who your character is.

[Tanarii]

In what possible way have they changed? Selfish is still evil, selfless is still good. Consistency is still lawful, improvisation is still chaotic.
First of all, alignment is no longer determined by actions. Second of all, its only one contributing factor to overall behavior, along with the rest of the personality traits.

So a tool which asks you about a bunch of actions and/or behavior and tries to back-determine your alignment from it is inherent flawed for 5e alignment purposes. It can't account for your entire personality. We might be able to do that for you though. Or help you build a character with an entire personality, not just a one-dimensional alignment. (Edit: If that's what you want.)


And no, alignment isn't still selfish, selfless, consistent and improvised. Check out the typical alignment behaviors I posted above, plus the ones in the both / basic doc. That's what 5e alignment is about: it gives you a single sentence typical behavior to consider, along with the rest of your personality, when making in-character decisions (aka roleplaying).

[beargryllz]

Gotta disagree there. A murdering thief is evil even if he thinks he is perfectly justified in doing those things for some greater good, like getting rich

[smcmike]

I'm working on a character for a modern magic campaign next month(year?) and I want him to be lawful. He always follows the law and try's never to break it but he also looks for loopholes in the law so he can help his friends. When he finds a loophole he almost never reports it unless the loophole could cause unneeded suffering to happen.

Yes, lawful. He follows the laws. I have a soft spot for people who scrupulously follow the letter of the law, particularly when the law is absurd and they have to develop elaborate work-arounds to live a reasonable life.

Also, speaking of following rules, it's "tries."

[JackPhoenix]

Gotta disagree there. A murdering thief is evil even if he thinks he is perfectly justified in doing those things for some greater good, like getting rich

Getting rich isn't greater good, it's only for his own benefit. Evil.

[Tanarii]

Gotta disagree there. A murdering thief is evil even if he thinks he is perfectly justified in doing those things for some greater good, like getting richI never claimed that Alignment is not objective. IMO it's still strongly implied that it is.

I'm just saying that the idea is choose an Alignment that has a single sentence description of typical behavior that you feel best matches your character concept, come up with other personality traits/motivations (or choose them per the PHB), and use those as your tools to decide how to make you in-character decisions during play. That's all.

Do none of the Lawful behavior descriptions I posted above match how you feel your character might generally behave?

[Pfhagthyeh]

If this were my character, I'd say it's closer to neutral than lawful per se, but then again it's possible that a lawful character could allow for the bending (without going too far) of rules they find unnecessary when it comes to their close and trusted friends. Definitely walking the line between NG and LG.