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View Full Version : Contest Base Class Contest XXXV Voting Thread



Temotei
2016-10-02, 01:35 AM
Welcome to the voting thread for Base Class Challenge XXXV, Schooling the Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496957-Base-Class-Contest-XXXV-Schooling-the-Competition)! Voting will consist of each voter giving a first, second, and third place vote for three separate base classes. Anyone can vote, and in fact, entrants must vote to qualify for victory.

A first place vote is worth three points, a second place vote is worth two points, and a third place vote is worth one point. You may not vote for your own class.

You are encouraged to include reason with your votes, though this is not absolutely required.

The class that ends up with the most points wins the challenge contest. Voting starts now and will continue until 23:59 (Central Standard Time USA/Canada; GMT-6) on October 15th.



Base Class
Author
1st
2nd
3rd
Total Points


Punchimancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21093509&postcount=3)
sengmeng
1
0
2
5


Glyph Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21120681&postcount=6) (Rules and Symbols I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21120683&postcount=7), Symbols II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21120686&postcount=8), Symbols III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21120688&postcount=9), Feats and Creatures (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21234859&postcount=27), Prestige Classes I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21241392&postcount=28), Prestige Classes II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21261430&postcount=31))
Zaydos
1
4
1
12


Paragon of Duality and Spell List I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122968&postcount=10) (Spell List II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122976&postcount=11), Spell Descriptions I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122977&postcount=12), Spell Descriptions II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122979&postcount=13), Spell Descriptions III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122980&postcount=14), Spell Descriptions IV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122984&postcount=15), Duality Companion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21122986&postcount=16))
Jormengand
4
1
1
15


Magos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21128765&postcount=17) (Exceptional Mythos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21128772&postcount=18), Fantastic Mythos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21128775&postcount=19), Legendary and Exalted Mythos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21128781&postcount=20), Excellencies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21128786&postcount=21))
Lanth Sor
0
0
0
0


Cascadence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21137106&postcount=22)
Oblivimancer
1
1
1
6


Arcane Pugilist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21220066&postcount=24) (Course Descriptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21220069&postcount=25))
bekeleven
2
2
1
11


Student of Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21229909&postcount=26)
DreganHiregard
0
1
1
3


Epicure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21257081&postcount=29)
sirpercival
1
1
3
8


Revoker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21259056&postcount=30)
r2d2go
0
0
0
0



Unfortunately, the proArchus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21106527&postcount=4) and zonecaller (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21120377&postcount=5) are ineligible for voting.

nikkoli
2016-10-02, 01:16 PM
1. The arcane pugilist: I think this does the theme in a literal sense very well.
2. Cascadence: I like how you set up their key feature. It's not absurd. But it's quite strong.
3. The punchimancer: Who doesn't like to punch magic?

dragonjek
2016-10-02, 06:14 PM
1: Epicure by sirpercival
Because wow, that whole entry is just a work of friggin' art. Good design, fits the theme, gives information on the class in a great prose format... A+.

2: Paragon of Duality by jormengand
In terms of theme, I think this one is the best of those presented. And the approach to the relationships between the schools was just fantastic.
But dear lord, please use spoilers to condense the massive amounts of spells into a manageable space in the future.

3: Glyph Knight by Zaydos
High quality and has runes that addresses subschools, which I greatly appreciate. I love the new system for symbols, too. And as he so often does, he's provided a fantastic array of supporting material. This would normally be easily worth first place, but this month has had some rather exceptional entries.



Finally, even though it's not worth anything, I have to give a shout out to the Arcane Pugilist. While I don't normally spare much attention to that sort of joke class, this one was hilarious and played on the theme perfectly. So, kudos to bekeleven.

Temotei
2016-10-02, 08:26 PM
Votes tallied. Spread all over.

ImperatorV
2016-10-03, 06:56 PM
This was a hard one. A lot of very good entries here, and honestly every one is worth an honorable mention at least. Several of these would have been clear winners in a normal contest, but this contest is special - as someone who has read most of the past base class contests threads, this one is IMO the strongest group out of all of them. So, on to the votes.

1st: The Paragon of Duality by Jormengand.
This isn't one class. It's 8, each with several variations. The sheer amount of replayability contained in this class outmatches anything I've ever seen, with only some of Zaydos's works coming close. Not to mention a lot of the effects available to the paragon of duality are unique or rare... There's just so much here to use. I would easily put this in the top five homebrew classes I've ever read.

2nd: The Arcane Pugilist by bekeleven
A martial class in a magic themed contest? It's interesting, it's funny, and it does cool things. I'd like to play one of these, and it's the class in this contest I'd be most comfortable with having in a normal D&D game.

3rd: The Epicure by sirpercival
This was a tough call between the Epicure and the Glyph Knight. I feel really bad for not including the Glyph Knight in the top three, it's a well-written class with a lot of options (as is typical of Zaydos), but when it comes down to it I'd want to play the Epicure more. The format is also pretty, although ultimately I voted for it for the content.

Special Mentions:
The Glyph Knight for being amazing an easily the winner of a normal base class contest.
The Magos for being a great addition to the Mythos subsystem - it just falls prey to the classic Mythos problem of being setting-specific and fitting best in an all-Mythos game.

Temotei
2016-10-07, 07:40 PM
Votes tallied. Everyone in the contest still needs to vote.

Zaydos
2016-10-09, 11:52 PM
1st The Arcane Pugilist by bekeleven. In a suitably silly game I'd allow this. The mechanics are sound even if I side-eye the antimagic field one (especially with some of the other abilities they can pick up) we're still talking about 18th level here and at that point the gentleman's agreement has to be in full force regardless. It also managed to use the theme well, even if I question weapon enchantment abilities in Enchantment because the two have nothing to do with each other despite their names (and the fact that in 2e you needed an Evocation/Enchantment spell to enchant things).

2nd Epicurean by sirpercival. I like the class, the design is beautiful, but the abilities are too much at-will out of combat or to have several always on in combat unless you're comparing it to DMM Persist and tier ones played to the hilt at which point it is overshadowed. Of course unlike the other two this fades away as it levels, and by 20th I'd be more worried about it being overshadowed by the same allies it was overshadowing. It sinks second because I'd allow it in a game with hesitations and reservations, coupled with the most interesting abilities of the three, and looking like an altogether fun class.

3rd Cascadence by ObliviMancer. This I'd allow into a game with mostly no reservation. While it does get heavy metamagic reduction (which I don't usually like) it's still less metamagic reduction than Arcane Thesis can net you. I've run the numbers they get high but they don't reduce it to pure 'I get to go I win'. That said it doesn't wow me like Epicurean, or even get the interest factor of Arcane Pugilist. Still it's a nice, solidly designed class.

bekeleven
2016-10-10, 03:50 AM
I think the best classes in the contest are probably the Glyph Knight, the Paragon of Duality, and the Magos (in some order).

However, I'm voting on best use of prompt.

1. Punchimancer. Core class feature includes 8 school-based arcane strikes. Concepted similar to the Epicure (or should I say, both are concepted similar to the spellthief), a little less depth, a little better presentation, significantly more playable. The arcane strikes aren't a huge thrust of the class words-wise but they look like one of the most solid uses of its counterspells when not fighting wizards. They also justify a lot of things about the class; without them there's little reason for the counterspells not to be generic.

2. Glyph Knight: Has school-based spell list (essentially). Lets you level up in schools and gain school-based effects in multiple ways. My chief complaint is that the class is incredibly dense and, speaking as someone who's never played a game with incarnum, basically buried me in systems and terminology. Is this what D&D looks like to everyone else?

3. Student of Magic: School-based familiars are a cool twist. Besides that, it's basically a focused specialist wizard with extra fixins. I wish the class had more concrete mechanics rather than "Ask your DM" or "Do what makes sense."

Honorable Mention: The Zonecaller looked really promising. I love the idea of zones of each school. Shame it never got finished.

Zaydos
2016-10-10, 04:08 AM
Honorable Mention: The Zonecaller looked really promising. I love the idea of zones of each school. Shame it never got finished.

Just wanted to note I second this feeling.

sirpercival
2016-10-11, 08:31 AM
Okie dokes.

1st: Glyph Knight, by Zaydos. There are several great about this class. I have to say, I'm impressed by the amount and quality of the fluff, but the real kicker that guaranteed a 1st place vote is that Z has written a class that's basically Incarnum + Illumians, both of which I love with a fiery passion. Just needs some Illumian racial sub levels :D

2nd: Arcane Pugilist, by bekeleven. I love the premise, it's hilarious and also exactly what D&D needs more of. The mechanics are pretty well developed, and give a very nice spread of abilities with great customization. Kind of reminds me of my Magipunk Synthevolver. I would change the presentation format a bit, and I also would have to play the class to check the balance between passive and active abilities on an encounter-by-encounter basis. But I'm very very happy with the class.

3rd: Paragon of Duality, by Jormengand. This could really use some fleshing out in terms of fluff, and some of the wording is pretty confusing. The class features are pretty sparse, and Twin Talons makes very little sense (though the ability name is awesome). However, the class is overall pretty solid, and I like the idea.

PS: Cascadence gets a shout-out for using infinity symbols in a class table. :smallcool:

Temotei
2016-10-11, 09:45 PM
Votes tallied.

I felt bad disqualifying both of the ones that didn't get finished this time. Both had a decent amount done; usually they're just names and a bit of fluff or a class table with feature names but no actual substance. Unfortunate.

ShiningStarling
2016-10-13, 10:56 PM
PS: Cascadence gets a shout-out for using infinity symbols in a class table. :smallcool:

Teehee :3

1st: Paragon of Duality
... aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

2nd: Glyph Knight
... aaaaaAAAAaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh...

Both of these... I am simply at a loss.

3rd: Punchimancer
I wanted to do something with countering/absorbing, but couldn't think of anything. Well done and eloquently put.

AvatarVecna
2016-10-14, 03:36 PM
Assuming the contest voting is open to non-participants...

1) Paragon Of Duality

The sheer amount of content here is staggering, and it doesn't sacrifice quality for quantity. I second the assertion that the wording can be a tad confusing at times, but that doesn't take away from it being overall a solid entry with a great deal of depth to it. Concept is interesting, and the execution doesn't disappoint in the slightest; geez, there's 28 dual-schools, several posts worth of spells, and all on a caster that can easily be mixed-and-matched with existing 3.5 content...there's a lot of potential here for a character, which gives players a lot of room to make the character they want. Ultimately, that level of versatility without being ridiculously overpowered makes this one of the better mages I've seen.

2) Glyph Knight

Always been a fan of runic magic; never thought of using it to make a gish, but much like Pop Rocks in a milkshake, it's one of those things I never realized I'd love until the idea presented itself. And what a presentation! Zaydos, as always, does good work. Intelligent warriors are another guilty pleasure of mine, and this entry delivers on that.

3) Epicure

This class is dripping with flavor, from beginning to end. The peculiar presentation helps, but the writing is what sells it. The mechanics are interesting enough to be worth looking at multiple times to try and get a sense for how well it combines with other things. Unfortunately, this runs into one of the downsides, at least for me: I can't really see how to slot this into the existing 3.5 system. Not to say you couldn't have a game with such a character, but my idea of 3.5 involves a lot of multiclassing, or PrCs, and this class doesn't fit into that very well. If you leave this class, you're really leaving it behind, and there's not really much you can do to change that. Compare to the first two, where the Paragon Of Duality integrates into the existing magic system, or the Glyph Knight which bases itself on Essentia. That's not to say this class is bad--there is nothing wrong with taking a class to 20--but it means that taking a level in this class is either a wasted level or is locking me into this path for the rest of my career, and the multitude of available options is one of the things I love about 3.5, personally. I like this class mechanically, and the fluff is beyond amazing...but I can't see myself playing it, and for me that's a big part of what makes homebrew interesting.

Jormengand
2016-10-15, 11:46 AM
But dear lord, please use spoilers to condense the massive amounts of spells into a manageable space in the future.

Given a little longer to do that, I would have - I did it for Warp Mage, for example.


I think the best classes in the contest are probably the Glyph Knight, the Paragon of Duality, and the Magos (in some order).

However, I'm voting on best use of prompt.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think Paragon of Duality used the prompt well.


The class features are pretty sparse, and Twin Talons makes very little sense (though the ability name is awesome). However, the class is overall pretty solid, and I like the idea.

The main reason that it has so little in the way of class features is that it has 9th-level spells. Even druid may be full of them, but most of them are wild shape! Twin talons was just an excuse to use the theme of doubles a bit more, and the fact that this encourages you to mainhand a morningstar - a double-type weapon - is just the icing on the cake.


... aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

....aaaaaaaAaaaAaaahhh!

All right, onto the votes:

1. Cascadescence: This class looks insanely fun to play. It's basically an evoker-type that doesn't suck, and the ability to fire infinite shout+scorching ray+acid splash combinations is mildly funny, not to mention that the possibility for you to have nasty metamagic like Fell Drain apply to each of multiple spells from 11th level is hilarious. The fact that it's not actually overpowered makes this even more amazingly cool.

2. Student of Magic: Only getting a single school is harsh, but it could still be fun with the ability to create your own spells, and the fact that you can access spells from any spell list, which is really cool. Also your familiar is MADE OF MAGIC! But I'm going to share concerns about the ask-your-DM nature of it.

3. Epicure: I love the way this is formatted. That's the whole and the entire of why it gets 3rd: with so many good classes, and even so many good underdogs, I can't say there's any reason I voted for this other than it looks better than the others. But, it's still a damned good class.

Honourable Mention. Everything: These classes are insanely good. From towering lists of stuff that you can do (which generally don't get my vote because I can't get my head around them!) to an abjuration specialist that I want to play as, and only recieved no votes because everything in the contest is amazing, we have everything we could possibly want. This is possibly the best competition I have ever seen. To be the probable winner after the last rounds of voting are carried out (unless anyone in the next half-day wants to mess it up for me, in which case thanks, your contribution is appreciated) took days upon days of frenzied spell-writing, up until literal hours before the deadline. That's a testament to the competition. So, well done to everyone - several of your entries would easily have won a normal competition. I'm still shocked that people voted for mine. :smallsmile:

sengmeng
2016-10-15, 02:28 PM
1 paragon of duality
2 glyph knight
3 arcane pugilist

Temotei
2016-10-16, 03:33 PM
Voting closed!

1st Place: Paragon of Duality, by Jormengand!

2nd Place: Glyph Knight, by Zaydos!

3rd Place: Arcane Pugilist, by bekeleven!