Greater Doppelganger's Consume Identity and Vecna-Blooded

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Here's an odd question for the Playground.

So, a greater doppelganger (from Monsters of Faerûn) has consumed the identity of a Vecna-blooded creature (from Monster Manual V) with the cloak of mystery ability (or has otherwise consumed someone who gained this ability through other means, such as a polymorphed illithid savant). Now, he has the option to temporarily assume a different identity which has the Supernatural ability to force the entire world to forget about him.


Consume Identity (Su)
By eating the brain of a Medium-sized or smaller humanoid victim, you can absorb the mind, memories, and personality of that victim. After consuming a victim's identity, you can assume the victim's form with 100% accuracy and possess the victim's memories, abilities, and alignment. The only exceptions are cleric spells of 2nd level or greater, a paladin's (or equivalent) special abilities, and other powers that are granted by deities. When you have already consumed three or more personalities, and wish to consume another, you must make a Will save (DC 16) to avoid losing a random personality from those consumed earlier. In any case, you cannot have more consumed identities than you have total levels, losing a random identity from your pool if you attempt to exceed that limit. If you "wear" one of your assumed identities and commit an act that runs counter to that form's alignment, you are immediately reverted to your normal form for 1d10 rounds. In your normal form, you retain the basic memories of all the identities you have consumed, though not deeper memories. Memories from previously consumed identities that have been forced out by new identities fade quickly.

This is a supernatural ability.


Cloak of Mystery (Su)
All knowledge of the Vecna-blooded creature fades from the world. Its original name, its deeds before becoming Vecna-blooded, and so forth, disappear from memory. Only Vecna and the Vecna-blooded creature retain this knowledge.

A Vecna-blooded creature gains immunity to all divination spells cast against it or cast to learn information about it. Such divination fails to reveal any information. The Vecnablooded creature immediately learns the name, appearance, and location of the caster who attempted the divination. Unlike other god-blooded abilities, the Vecna-blooded creature retains this special quality after it loses other abilities from this template.

How does that work, exactly?

1.) Does the cloak of mystery ability make everyone forget about the doppelganger himself, both before and during his identity assumption?

2.) Does it make everyone forget about his new identity so long as he's in the middle of assuming the new identity, and the memories are still gone after he changes back, but they remember him from before he assumed the identity?

3.) Do they forget about him while he's assumed the identity, but remember everything that happened once he loses it again?

4.) Does he retain the ability even after he swaps identities again? (I wouldn't think it would be this last one, since he never actually had the template himself.)

5.) Does it do something else?

This is confusing.

[Name1]

I would say that it activates the moment he assumed it via Consume Identity. Once obtained, it wipes the memories of the Doppleganger. The effect appears to be immediate and thus will not revert the moment he looses the ability, even though he looses all other benefits granted by it, as he himself doesn't possess the template.

At least, that's how I think this works.

To the other questions, I would thus go with:
Yes
No
No
No
I'd say it gives Vecna knowledge of you, but I'm not 100% sure.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would say that it activates the moment he assumed it via Consume Identity. Once obtained, it wipes the memories of the Doppleganger. The effect appears to be immediate and thus will not revert the moment he looses the ability, even though he looses all other benefits granted by it, as he himself doesn't possess the template.

At least, that's how I think this works.

To the other questions, I would thus go with:
Yes
No
No
No
I'd say it gives Vecna knowledge of you, but I'm not 100% sure.Does that apply, actually? Because it mentions about losing the template, but it says nothing about becoming someone else entirely...and what if you're stealing the persona of an illithid savant who ate a Vecna-blooded creature and stole the ability? You never had the template to begin with, then.

[Name1]

Does that apply, actually? Because it mentions about losing the template, but it says nothing about becoming someone else entirely...and what if you're stealing the persona of an illithid savant who ate a Vecna-blooded creature and stole the ability? You never had the template to begin with, then.

I would still assume that you have got the ability, even if you don't have the template. I can't be sure on this though. It's a very interesting question.

[bekeleven]

Vecna-Blooded people are created in arcane (the real word, not the D&D word) religious rituals.

Sounds granted by a deity to me.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Vecna-Blooded people are created in arcane (the real word, not the D&D word) religious rituals.

Sounds granted by a deity to me.That's fair. Question, though: if it was taken from an illithid savant that, itself, took it from someone else, then was it really granted to said illithid savant via Vecna? A technicality? Sure. Does it work? That's the question.

[Name1]

That's fair. Question, though: if it was taken from an illithid savant that, itself, took it from someone else, then was it really granted to said illithid savant via Vecna? A technicality? Sure. Does it work? That's the question.

The granted by a deity bit is from the Doppelgangers description. However, the moment you eat that brain, you would gain the ability. That you never had the template doesn't matter at that point, so I'd assume it would work like it does for a Vecna-Blooded.

[RedMage125]

That's fair. Question, though: if it was taken from an illithid savant that, itself, took it from someone else, then was it really granted to said illithid savant via Vecna? A technicality? Sure. Does it work? That's the question.

This makes my brain hurt.

It's like Inception, but eating brains.

Nesting Identities?

Brain-ception?

Ow.

EDIT: Dungeon #127 has the 3.5e version of Greater Doppelganger. MoF is 3.0

[Psyren]

Vecna-Blooded people are created in arcane (the real word, not the D&D word) religious rituals.

Sounds granted by a deity to me.

This. And no matter how many degrees of separation you go through first, it was ultimately granted to somebody by a deity (Vecna) along the line. So I would rule this doesn't work, nor do any of the other God-Blooded templates.

[Jack_Simth]

This. And no matter how many degrees of separation you go through first, it was ultimately granted to somebody by a deity (Vecna) along the line. So I would rule this doesn't work, nor do any of the other God-Blooded templates.

This does seem like the simplest solution, yes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Then let's come at this from the other direction. You're a greater doppelganger with the Vecna-blooded template. You assume an identity without it. What now?

[Gemini476]

Then let's come at this from the other direction. You're a greater doppelganger with the Vecna-blooded template. You assume an identity without it. What now?

Does Consume Identity strip you of your non-consumed abilities? It doesn't look like it to me, at least.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there some way to force the ability to only work on one identity, without stripping the memories of your other ones? Because I could think of some interesting things to do with that.

[Psyren]

Then let's come at this from the other direction. You're a greater doppelganger with the Vecna-blooded template. You assume an identity without it. What now?

Vecna-blooded only erases your identity/deeds/reputation before getting the template. You can accumulate such things afterward just fine, including consuming them from others, and they will be remembered by any witnesses (or revived victims.)