Chameleon Questions

[Daedroth]

I have been reading the chameleon class and i found out that... its very confusing. His abilities are not clear enough and his RAW is a mess.


An aptitude focus ability is usable once per day at 1st level, twice per day at 5th level, and three times per day at 10th level. At 5th level, you can change your aptitude focus one time per day, and at 10th level you can change your aptitude focus two times per day.

What the dragon is usable once per day? Most of them are mostly passive or have other limits. I can only cast a spell once a day? I can only strike with a martial weapon once a day?
Ok, lets be sensible here and stop the sillines
I'd say i can only use Wild Empathy once. But what about trap sense and woodland stride? They are some sort of pasives that can be ruled that way.... but its totally unclear, both RAW readings seems reasonable (Gameplay balance aside, but with balance in mind i don't find a reason to only be able to use wild empathy once... its kind of useless anyway).

Mimic class feature does a better job, though.


Double Aptitude (Ex): At 7th level, you can adopt two aptitude focuses in the same amount of time it previously took for you to adopt one. For example, you could adopt both the combat focus and the wild focus to mimic a ranger, or the divine focus and arcane focus to mimic a mystic theurge. You can't adopt the same aptitude focus twice simultaneously. You can still only adopt as many focuses per day as indicated by your aptitude focus ability.

Ok... if i take the divine and arcane focus, i get two separate spell pools or they have to share the same pool?

[DarkSoul]

I have been reading the chameleon class and i found out that... its very confusing. His abilities are not clear enough and his RAW is a mess.

What the dragon is usable once per day? Most of them are mostly passive or have other limits. I can only cast a spell once a day? I can only strike with a martial weapon once a day?Your ability to change your aptitude focus completely is what you're referring to in your quote. At 1st level you can assume an aptitude focus from the 5 listed, each day. At 5th level you can assume one, then change to another one later (2 uses). At 10th level you can assume one, change to another one later, then change to a third or back to the first (3 uses).


I'd say i can only use Wild Empathy once. But what about trap sense and woodland stride? They are some sort of pasives that can be ruled that way.... but its totally unclear, both RAW readings seems reasonable (Gameplay balance aside, but with balance in mind i don't find a reason to only be able to use wild empathy once... its kind of useless anyway).If you choose Wild Focus, which is what gives you Wild Empathy and Woodland Stride, you retain those abilities until you change your focus 24 hours later, or sooner if you're a Chameleon 5+. The same goes for trapfinding an uncanny dodge from the Stealth Focus.


Ok... if i take the divine and arcane focus, i get two separate spell pools or they have to share the same pool?Two spell pools, referencing the same table for spells per day.

[Daedroth]

Your ability to change your aptitude focus completely is what you're referring to in your quote. At 1st level you can assume an aptitude focus from the 5 listed, each day. At 5th level you can assume one, then change to another one later (2 uses). At 10th level you can assume one, change to another one later, then change to a third or back to the first (3 uses).

If you choose Wild Focus, which is what gives you Wild Empathy and Woodland Stride, you retain those abilities until you change your focus 24 hours later, or sooner if you're a Chameleon 5+. The same goes for trapfinding an uncanny dodge from the Stealth Focus.

Two spell pools, referencing the same table for spells per day.

So... the second sentence is the explanation of the first and not another limit? Makes sense, thank you, i see the ability clearer now.

[DarkSonic1337]

Well since this thread is here I figured I'd ask.


Suppose you have class levels that allow you to qualify for a spellcasting progressing prestige class (like Wizard 5 for 3rd level spells or something). Can you take a level in that prestige class and apply the progression to your chameleon spellcasting?

I'm aware you cannot use chameleon aptitude focus to qualify for things, but if you're already qualified I see nothing wrong with applying the things to your chameleon.

[DarkSoul]

I don't know of any rule against it, but it seems like a waste because advancing your arcane spell progression only affects 1 of your 5 choices for aptitude focus. Considering you have 0 initial spell slots of a spell level beyond 1st, you're usually relying on a high Intelligence to give you usable spell slots. A standard arcane casting class generally won't have that problem.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't know of any rule against it, but it seems like a waste because advancing your arcane spell progression only affects 1 of your 5 choices for aptitude focus. Considering you have 0 initial spell slots of a spell level beyond 1st, you're usually relying on a high Intelligence to give you usable spell slots. A standard arcane casting class generally won't have that problem.There're a few PrCs that generically advance casting, rather than arcane casting or divine casting specifically, such as geomancer, so technically, it would apply to both sides of the chameleon's casting if he uses both his divine and arcane focus, whether he swaps them out sometime during the day or he uses them both in tandem.

[bekeleven]

It's in a grey area. Almost no prestige class reads, "the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class that was used to qualify for this class."

I think it's RAW legal but wouldn't let someone do it at my table.

Chameleon levels are better than other prestige classes anyway.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Chameleon levels are better than other prestige classes anyway.At least, until you finish chameleon and find that you can no longer progress anything you just spent 10 levels doing.

Hmm. Can you progress chameleon past its normal casting? Is there an epic progression for chameleon somewhere?

[bekeleven]

At least, until you finish chameleon and find that you can no longer progress anything you just spent 10 levels doing.

Hmm. Can you progress chameleon past its normal casting? Is there an epic progression for chameleon somewhere?

No.

And it's possible to get 9th level casting on chameleons - multiple different ways, even - but a bit cheesy.

[DarkSonic1337]

I'd continue prestige hopping just for the caster level and neat class features. Though maybe legacy champion would work better?

[Jack_Simth]

At least, until you finish chameleon and find that you can no longer progress anything you just spent 10 levels doing.

Hmm. Can you progress chameleon past its normal casting? Is there an epic progression for chameleon somewhere?

Yes & no.

Yes, you can keep advancing caster level (which goes up quite quickly - a Bard-5/Chameleon-10/Loremaster-5 is a 20th level character who may have a caster level of 30 on Chameleon spells).
No, you don't get higher level spell slots without tricks (but there are tricks to get higher level spell slots on such a build).

[Eisfalken]

If you go chameleon, you aren't doing it to be a full spellcaster; even with other PrCs, you need 10 levels minimum to get to 9th-level magic, plus whatever to qualify for the class that gives you those spells in the first place.

But there is another way chameleon shines: a two-level dip for Bonus Feat to swap out metamagic and item creation feats for full spellcasters. It's not really useful or abusable until you hit certain levels (and interrupts 2 levels of your spellcasting, making it a no-no prior to 17th level), but it can make a DM unprepared for that dump truck of cheese heading his way throw a book directly at your crotch.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you go chameleon, you aren't doing it to be a full spellcaster; even with other PrCs, you need 10 levels minimum to get to 9th-level magic, plus whatever to qualify for the class that gives you those spells in the first place.

But there is another way chameleon shines: a two-level dip for Bonus Feat to swap out metamagic and item creation feats for full spellcasters. It's not really useful or abusable until you hit certain levels (and interrupts 2 levels of your spellcasting, making it a no-no prior to 17th level), but it can make a DM unprepared for that dump truck of cheese heading his way throw a book directly at your crotch.That's honestly less powerful than the psychic reformation power, or even the retraining rules -- though the latter are considerably more involved.