Charlatan needs some card tricks

[CaptainSarathai]

So, I'm playing a Warlock who has the Charlatan background. I decided that RP-wise, he's somewhat like Gambit, from 'XMen'; when he uses Eldritch Blast, they appear as thrown playing-cards, etc. So for his chosen scam, I picked a deck of marked cards. So now I've got some questions:

My DM has never seen marked cards in-game and asked how they should work. I noticed that Charlatans are not actually proficient in cards as a gaming set, but I think that marked cards should give them Advantage when playing games. What skill do you use for playing a game of cards? Would the rules below seem alright?


The primary contest is Bluff vs. Insight
Players using a Marked Deck have Advantage on these rolls.
Players can [I]Reroll[/] their result by making a Slight of Hand check to "cheat".
All DCs are considered Passive unless the PC/NPC actively suspects cheating.

Also, as a Warlock, my character has some of the Illusion spells. My question here is, would it be possible for any of the Illusion spells to be used to cheat at cards. Either by changing a card in your hand, or by changing the face of a card in a game like "Find the Queen" (like the shell game, with 3 face down cards switched around, and a Queen instead of a pea or ball)

My goal is to be able to do something like the Performer can do, where they can perform and get a free stay somewhere. I'd like to be able to say that my character is hustling cards during the party downtime, for similar bonuses.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

Best hope the DM does not like westerns, or history. Cheating at cards is a hang offense. Even in the 20th century, cheating was a good way to end up dead in vegas or Ocean City

https://books.google.com/books?id=K_Cpu4k2Ce4C&pg=PA416&lpg=PA416&dq=cheating+at+cards+a+hanging+offense&source=bl&ots=wCOx60-3v_&sig=SEvTuwRO3dJB4cxEeCmp5DBmz4M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq_-2nxL3PAhXGVT4KHYQ5D6UQ6AEIIjAC#v=onepage&q=cheating%20at%20cards%20a%20hanging%20offense&f=false

given that poker & other gambling card games are games of skill, not chance, the rolls would always be active.

As to the rules. You are given the tools kit of your chosen con, in this case cards. As I read it, this means are are proficient with them, however you would not be proficient with regular cards. Thus, playing a house deck (that you have not switched out), or having someone call you out and replace the deck with a new one, would put you in a dicey situation.

[Specter]

I let my player add double his proficiency with marked cards.

Still, it's unclear what abikity is used. All card games would involve intelligence, but when it comes to bluffing deception would also be involved.

[BW022]

...
Would the rules below seem alright?
...

There is already a skill for gaming sets. The skill would be gaming: cards.

I would handle this...

1. You need to convince them to play with your cards. That would be a deception check vs. their gaming (Wisdom) check.

2. They then examine your deck. DC 15 for each to see that it is marked.

3. If you get away with this, I'd just give an advantage on your gaming: cards (Intelligence) check vs. theirs. Each player rolls, I'd get the average, and for each point above/below the average you gain or lose two coins over four hours of playing. Say... coppers in a low-class inn/tavern, silvers in a mid-class location, or golds in a high-class location.

Spell casting is not possible in most social settings. All spells have verbal, somatic, or material components. No one is going to stand still while you chant or wave your arms and hold up a focus or components. Most would immediately recognize it as casting. Even if they didn't... it would likely stop the game. If caught... either a beating and stealing some of your items (including the cards), or calling the city watch (say 20 days in jail and a fine of 50gp).

[CursedRhubarb]

Casting spells during the games would be bad and a certain giveaway. But some good ways around this that play on Warlock strengths are:

Pact of the chain - warlock familiar with invisibility can hide and since warlock specific familiars are smart your telepathic like let's them tell you what everyone else has.

Marked deck could be a magic item with layered permament enchantments. The cards would have Nystul's Magical Aura so they appear as non magical to detect magic and the like, and one of the following:
- Darkness on the back of the cards so they appear to be jet black on the backs but have the face printed on both. Devil's Sight let's you see it for what it is, others just see black backed cards. (Beware others with DS or True sight)
- Illusory Script can make it so the backs look plain with a logo, but to the owner the logo instead says what face the card has. (True sight again sees through it so be careful. You could cast this yourself but it doesn't last long if you d.o)

If you want to avoid magic all together, the backs of the cards could be detailed in what looks like intricate weaving patterns but is actually a long forgotten or obscure text and says what the face of the card is. Eyes of the Rune Keeper let's you read it though. Others may notice the pattern on card backs is different on each so something like a DC 15 investigation or perception check would spot it or a Passive Perception DC 18 (like an owl on sight checks)

[CaptainSarathai]

Best hope the DM does not like westerns, or history. Cheating at cards is a hang offense. Even in the 20th century, cheating was a good way to end up dead in vegas or Ocean City
Oh, I know. Thats why I'm bringing a Warlock's arsenal to the table. I might still get caught, but that could make a fun encounter in its own right.


There is already a skill for gaming sets. The skill would be gaming: cards.
[snip]
I'd just give an advantage on your gaming: cards (Intelligence) check vs. theirs
Any shot at me getting a page number for the place where it says cards are definitely Int. checks? That might damper this whole thing (Int10 for my character not having much "book learnin")


Spell casting is not possible in most social settings. All spells have verbal, somatic, or material components. No one is going to stand still while you chant or wave your arms and hold up a focus or components


Casting spells during the games would be bad and a certain giveaway.
I'm already planning to dip Sorc for Metamagic: Quicken and Subtle Spell. The first for in and out of combat, and the second for Social. My character does a lot of "mind-bendy" stuff already, so doing it without all the 'Hocus-Pocus-Hullabaloo' is already high on his priorities.




But some good ways around this that play on Warlock strengths are:

Pact of the chain - warlock familiar with invisibility can hide and since warlock specific familiars are smart your telepathic like let's them tell you what everyone else has.

Marked deck could be a magic item with layered permament enchantments. The cards would have Nystul's Magical Aura so they appear as non magical to detect magic and the like, and one of the following:
- Darkness on the back of the cards so they appear to be jet black on the backs but have the face printed on both. Devil's Sight let's you see it for what it is, others just see black backed cards. (Beware others with DS or True sight)
- Illusory Script can make it so the backs look plain with a logo, but to the owner the logo instead says what face the card has. (True sight again sees through it so be careful. You could cast this yourself but it doesn't last long if you d.o)

If you want to avoid magic all together, the backs of the cards could be detailed in what looks like intricate weaving patterns but is actually a long forgotten or obscure text and says what the face of the card is. Eyes of the Rune Keeper let's you read it though. Others may notice the pattern on card backs is different on each so something like a DC 15 investigation or perception check would spot it or a Passive Perception DC 18 (like an owl on sight checks)

I like those, although I'm going Pact of the Blade, or Tome, most likely - so a bit less help there.
In all honesty though, the Illusory Script trick is how marked cards work already. You can mark a deck of Bicycle cards by darkening in certain portions of the roundels in the corners, and unless someone studies the backs of the cards and notices the minor differences, its pretty subtle.

[MBControl]

I may have a unique view on this, as I am very close friends with a world class magician, and specifically a card manipulator.

I think that the other posts have the poker game, and marked cards aspect covered, so I will focus on the card trick side of things.

Your key skills are Sleight of Hand and Performance. The skill of card manipulation takes a lifetime to perfect. For this your DM may allow you to be proficient with playing cards, maybe in place of another proficiency you would sacrifice. Performance to me is the more appropriate skill over Deception, all though they are very similar in this case. Card manipulation is art, like playing a guitar, dancing, or singing. It's less a lie than it is practiced and skilled misdirection.

I've entertained playing a character like this, but I've had a bit of a problem with the "card trick" portion of the character. As being able to do a card trick, is a lot different than describing that you "did a trick". There are some other fun RP choices you can make. I would always have a deck of cards in my hands. Constantly one-handed shuffling and cutting the deck, to explain my prowess. Boomeranging cards is cool too. You can throw a card up to 20 feet in the air, and have it come back to your hand.

A good way to use the marked deck might be trying to "gamble" your way out of a fight. You could use the old Maverick play. Who ever cuts the highest card of the deck wins. If you have high CHA you should be able to entice plenty of marks to take the bet. Of course, you'll always cut the best card, because the deck is marked.

I agree casting a spell would be difficult. There's got to be a better way! I haven't really worked it out, but your "marked cards" could be marked with rune magic only you can see or sense. Tapping the back of the card may trigger the rune magic, allowing it to disappear and reappear in your hand, or somebodies pocket. Other runic mages may find it easier to spot your tricks, but it could be worked out. I don't know.

[Saeviomage]

In all honesty though, the Illusory Script trick is how marked cards work already. You can mark a deck of Bicycle cards by darkening in certain portions of the roundels in the corners, and unless someone studies the backs of the cards and notices the minor differences, its pretty subtle.
Yeah, but with illusory script, you do the same thing, and now the guy not only needs to know the trick, he has to be capable of seeing through the illusory script. Conversely if he can see through the illusory script, he also needs to know the trick.

Personally I would say that if you're playing with fully marked cards, proficiency with the cards is going to be largely irrelevant. How well you do is going to come down to your intelligence to piece together the plays you need to make, and your charisma to cover up the fact that you're cheating, and to bait other players into actually putting money down.