Build Challenge - The Whaleomancer

[Brannmuffyn]

I'm not sure if this is territory that has been covered elsewhere in the forums but Google isn't returning anything besides some random reddit thread so I thought I would ask here.

Whaleomancy is defined as follows: The magical art form of summoning baleen whales, celestial or otherwise, in some way above a victim with the intent of dropping it on them.

It has always been an idea I've shared jokingly with friends over the years, but with the thought that it wasn't possible to actually do it within the rules.

There are three main problems that need to be solved to allow this to work:
1. In order to summon a whale, or any aquatic animal for that matter, you need a watery area large enough to summon them into.
2. The watery area needs to be removable to allow the whale to drop upon the enemy.
3. It needs to be capable of being performed by the character innately, without the usage of consumable items.

So is it possible to make a Whaleomancer work by level 20, using any D&D 3.5 book, Dragon Magazine, or unupdated 3.0 book? Within RAW, of course.

[daremetoidareyo]

Not quite what you asked for: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18984751&postcount=25

Question: Are sperm whales acceptable?
Question: Are you married to magic summons?

[Brannmuffyn]

Not quite what you asked for: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18984751&postcount=25

Question: Are sperm whales acceptable?
Question: Are you married to magic summons?

That's not what I'm looking for sadly. Although I do think that build is funny.

And yes, it has to be accomplished via summons - otherwise it isn't true whaleomancy. Any whale is actually acceptable, just the baleen whale is the most iconic of the options.

[Doc_Maynot]

Planar Ally/Binding would allow you to call a Pseudonatural, Half-Elemental, or Half-Celestial Baleen Whale.
As would Gate, of course.

[Brannmuffyn]

Planar Ally/Binding would allow you to call a Pseudonatural, Half-Elemental, or Half-Celestial Baleen Whale.
As would Gate, of course.

You could use planar ally, but the long casting time is generally prohibitive in combat at base.

Gate functions well enough, but the problem remains that a place to put the whale is still needed. Even if a whale was summoned with a fly speed and you commanded it to drop the XP cost of gate is prohibitive and will eventually lead you to no longer being able to cast 9th level spells, and removing the ability to Whaleomance from your arsenal.

Things without XP costs would be preferable.

[Troacctid]

You also need to summon the whale on a surface that can support them, as per the restrictions on conjuration spells that conjure or transport creatures to you.

[Darrin]

There are three main problems that need to be solved to allow this to work:
1. In order to summon a whale, or any aquatic animal for that matter, you need a watery area large enough to summon them into.
2. The watery area needs to be removable to allow the whale to drop upon the enemy.
3. It needs to be capable of being performed by the character innately, without the usage of consumable items.



1. Whales are not actually [aquatic] animals. Even if they were [aquatic] animals, there isn't actually a rule that [aquatic] animals can only be summoned in water. The actual rule is "May be summoned only into an aquatic or watery environment", but the rules don't explicitly define what a "watery environment" is. So cast create water or cloudburst beforehand, and you've got a "watery environment".

2. Not necessary. You need a temporary platform that can support a gargantuan creature and a little moisture.

3. My third entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18994487&postcount=27) for that Slam Dunk contest might be a better chassis for this. Take out the Thrall of Juiblex stuff, put in some Ardent with Praticed Spellcaster/Manifester and expansion, augment the mimic form up to gargantuan, and you've got a 20' x 20' flying platform to summon creatures onto.

[Brannmuffyn]

1. Whales are not actually [aquatic] animals. Even if they were [aquatic] animals, there isn't actually a rule that [aquatic] animals can only be summoned in water. The actual rule is "May be summoned only into an aquatic or watery environment", but the rules don't explicitly define what a "watery environment" is. So cast create water or cloudburst beforehand, and you've got a "watery environment".

2. Not necessary. You need a temporary platform that can support a gargantuan creature and a little moisture.

3. My third entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18994487&postcount=27) for that Slam Dunk contest might be a better chassis for this. Take out the Thrall of Juiblex stuff, put in some Ardent with Praticed Spellcaster/Manifester and expansion, augment the mimic form up to gargantuan, and you've got a 20' x 20' flying platform to summon creatures onto.

In Summon Monster VII (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterVII.htm) it is tagged as requiring a watery environment. Same with Summon Nature's Ally VI (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonNaturesAllyVI.htm)

Another question is, what constitutes a watery environment? I'm not sure if it is actually covered anywhere in the rules.
This build seems a little feat hungry too, I'm not sure if its workable. Although if the standard, two traits/two flaws is in effect it should be functioning.
This is the closest thing to what I'm looking for that I've seen.

[DrMotives]

What about summoning a Soarwhale from A&EG? It's a whale, but decidedly non-aquatic. Of course, they float while alive, so you'd need to summon a dead or zombie soarwhale so that it immediately falls. There's an Elsewhale somewhere too, but I can't recall what book they're from, or if they present a new option.

Edit: On further thought, a Summon Undead spell to conjure up a zombie whale or soarwhale seems almost feasible. If you argue the soarwhale's natural location is a high altitude, and the zombie template means it can't hold its position, you might be able to wing it that way.

[Efrate]

Horizonal plane wall of force will support any weight and is dismissable. Only close range however. A quicken/free create water or possibly commanding a water elemental to whirlpool on top of it might count. Summon wall, dismiss round. Might require incantrix or something to reduce the metamagic you want to do it all in the minimal amount of rounds. Nine 10x10 squares is enough to hold something that I think takes sixteen 5x5 squares by RAW, since I believe gargantuan creatures are for game effects always that size. Technically one square is strong enough to support the weight but I can see an argument for needing a big enough space to support its entire body.

[Extra Anchovies]

Gate is a standard action and can call a creature of any HD to any location within medium range. That means we can have our (fiendish/celestial) cetacean air-drops, but it's rather high-level.

Polymorph can temporarily turn a creature into a whale, and can be used at range via Spectral Hand, Reach Spell, or Ocular Spell. I think that's our most viable option for lower-level or less expensive whale-drops.

[daremetoidareyo]

Take 1 level of bear warrior. Take 3 levels of crinti shadow marauder. Take 2 levels of berserk from dieties and demigods. Buy 2 drogue wings, pay to enchant them both with the called magical property. Take mounted fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) Jump on whale. Frenzy. Whale turns into a bear. Make big ride check to ride your whale bear. Call Drogue wings to wrap around you. Use shadow walk ability to position yourself 100 feet above your opponents. Pop back into reality as gliding bears above your opponents. End rage when bearwhale is above opponent. When you are above your opponent, assume cachalot form.

In Whaleomancy Circles, this is called the Shadowy Double Bear Whale maneuver. Available by level 13 (maybe 10 if you play your cards right).
Single shadowy bearwhale maneuver is available by level 9.

[Thurbane]

Nothing really useful to add, except that the thread topic made me think of this:

http://i66.tinypic.com/332mrd0.png

[weckar]

Summon Bigger Fish

Actually, My players accidentally summoned a whale through a wish gone awry once... At lv 2. It was angry.

They did defeat it by Climbing on top and defecating in its blowhole.

More on topic, will you also need abilities to clean up the splattered whale goo?

[Emperor Tippy]

Do the Whales need to be summoned specifically or can they just be created ex nihilo in the air? Because the second is much easier.

[Gemini476]

I'm not entirely sure on the timing, but couldn't you throw an object into the air above your enemies and then Sudden Quicken Polymorph Any Object it into a whale? At level 15, when the trick comes online, you can transform an object 60 feet away - you'll have to figure out the damage-distance ratio yourself, though.

[Waker]

I'm not entirely sure on the timing, but couldn't you throw an object into the air above your enemies and then Sudden Quicken Polymorph Any Object it into a whale? At level 15, when the trick comes online, you can transform an object 60 feet away - you'll have to figure out the damage-distance ratio yourself, though.

You could also polymorph the whale in advance, toss the smaller object and then hit it with a dispel magic.

[Gemini476]

You could also polymorph the whale in advance, toss the smaller object and then hit it with a dispel magic.

Fun-but-probably-useless trick: polymorph a whale into a rock, slather it in quintessence so the duration doesn't run out, have an Arcane Archer shoot an AMF at the target, and then have your local thrown weapon specialist scrape off the quintessence and toss it at the target.