Suggest E6/E8 House Rules, tweaks etc.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically I'm looking at creating a heavily homebrewed/houseruled E6 styled campaign. I likely won't DM it for quite some time mind you, I just find the creation fun and like having such things on stand by.

So any personal advice you can provide for stuff you do during E6, or just to fix Pathfinder in general would be appreciated.

However, there are also a few specifics goals and directions I'm looking towards which leads me to a couple of specifics questions I would also like help with.

1. What's a good way to implement Gestalt that doesn't just cause people to double up on Casters?
2. What are some good ways to help keep Martial and Caster classes on an equal playing field?
3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?
4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?
5. What are good ways to have players fear each hit and not just shrug off as HP Damage, but without it becoming too punishing?
6. What are good systems to put in place to keep players worrying about Survival/Foraging aspects of the game, without it bogging down into tracking minute and tiny details?
7. Are there any specific Classes in Pathfinder you find to be a little weak or off?
8. What kind of fixes do you tend to put in place to address said weak classes?

[TheIronGolem]

1. What's a good way to implement Gestalt that doesn't just cause people to double up on Casters?
I think a simple "only one casting class per level" rule would do it. But you might not even need that; the fact that casters are "active" classes by the standard gestalt strategy tends to discourage doubling up on casting classes anyway. A Cleric//Wizard can be a Cleric or a Wizard on any given turn, but can rarely be both at once.


2. What are some good ways to help keep Martial and Caster classes on an equal playing field?
I think if you're using E6 then you're already most of the way there. Caster Supremacy doesn't kick into high gear until 4th or 5th level spells are coming online. Combat Stamina for martials might help too, though I can't say for sure as I haven't had a chance to play with that yet.


3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?

Eliminate "number buff" items and only allow magic items that Do Interesting ThingsTM. Maybe allow Automatic Bonus Progression, if you're concerned about the numeric holes that leaves.


4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?

I'd ask the players and try to get a sense of what they'd like, but options I can think of include land management (build buildings, hire workers and guards), fleet management (buy/build ships and hire crewmen), and alternate avenues for increasing personal power (spend gold to learn bonus feats, spells, or skill training, fluffed in whatever way best fits your game).


What are good ways to have players fear each hit and not just shrug off as HP Damage, but without it becoming too punishing?
Maybe look at the Wounds and Vigor system? Haven't tried it so I can offer no informed opinion on how well it works. Still, I'd be wary of any desire to make the players "fear" every hit unless they've specifically told you they want deadly and unforgiving combat.


6. What are good systems to put in place to keep players worrying about Survival/Foraging aspects of the game, without it bogging down into tracking minute and tiny details?
If a good system for this exists, I haven't encountered it.


7. Are there any specific Classes in Pathfinder you find to be a little weak or off?
8. What kind of fixes do you tend to put in place to address said weak classes?
Nothing you haven't heard here a bunch of times already. But the fact that you're doing E6 already mitigates a good deal of these problems. Using Unchained versions of classes would probably help more.

[Ualaa]

1. What's a good way to implement Gestalt that doesn't just cause people to double up on Casters?The stronger Gestalt combos have an active side and a passive side that ideally fills in holes.

A Wizard || Cleric might be the ultimate crafter, but they're either doing a Cleric spell or a Wizard spell.
They have the D8 & 3/4 BAB of the Cleric, the Fort/Will of the Cleric (Wizard has Will too), but poor Reflex and few skill points; they also need to invest in both INT and WIS.

Conversely, a Wizard || Ranger (or Cleric || Ranger) has D10 & Full BAB, three good saves, six skills per level (plus INT), only one caster stat to worry about, bonus feats which can supplement their caster side and passive or out of combat class features like tracking or favored enemies/terrain.

The Wizard || Ranger might run out of spells before the Wizard || Cleric, but is not weaker as a caster since each is limited to one set of actions.



2. What are some good ways to help keep Martial and Caster classes on an equal playing field?I'd take a look at the Spheres of Power magic system, since casters basically get infinite uses of their base sphere abilities but are limited in their spell points (enhanced versions of their base stuff) per day.

The Sphere system allows for massive flexibility; you can play almost any magical concept that you can envision or find in a novel, tv show, or movie.
At the same time, the power level is lower than most of the Vancian caster options. A 12th level wizard casts Fireball (a level 3 resource) and does 10D6 AoE damage.
The 12th level Incanter can do unlimited 6D6 blasts, and may choose (depending on the Talents chosen) to 'Shape' the blast into a Range-Touch, 20 ft. Radius Orb (like Fireball), a Wall (20 ft. long per Caster Level), a Hemisphere (5 ft. to 30 ft. radius), or other shapes; the Incanter will have 12+ Spell Points (1 per level, plus key mod) which they can spend to make the blast 12D6.

The Incanter is the closest Sphere class to a full caster, but by their selection of Spheres & Talents (from the chosen Spheres) they could be closer to a Cleric than a Wizard, or perhaps very different from either.

Combine that with Path of War (and PoW Expanded) melee characters, which are a little stronger than the classic melee classes, and the disparity between casters and melee has been reduced a little.
The PoW classes have the option of a Standard action attack (which scales against the character's level similar to a spell... so more powerful weapon techniques at level 8 than they had at level 2) or the regular Full-Attack action.




3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?There is a product called 'Trailblazer', made by Bad Axe Games; I like a lot of the systems from that book. The PDF is $5 on Drive Thru RPG.

Trailblazer came out at about the same time as both Pathfinder and 4th edition. Bad Axe Games did a mathematical analysis of the (3.x) game, to determine what works and what does not (things they would change).

The first chapter focuses on 'The Spine', which is essentially a character's attacks and defenses (at each level, assuming average progression) in relation to the average of every monster of a given challenge rating.

From analysis of the Spine, with the 'Big Six' items in the game, a melee focused character will reach a point where they hit the average same CR mob on anything but a natural 1. If all of the 'Big Six' items were removed, a melee focused character will hit the average median defense a same CR mob on a 7+ (connecting 70% of the time) all the way up.

The 'Big Six' are constantly upgraded, with a player trading away the +1 Flaming Longsword which they inherited from their father and which has been in the family for generations... because they found a +2 weapon in the treasure horde. If all magical weapons were +1 to attack, and the function was the only difference, the player would not be penalized if they retained their family heirloom throughout the campaign.

The 'Big Six' are:
- Magical weapon enhancement bonus
- Armor & Shield enhancement bonuses
- Deflection bonus to AC (Ring of Protection)
- Natural Armor to AC (Amulet of Natural Armor)
- Stat Booster (Headband of / Belt of)
- Resistance Item (Cloak of Resistance)

Ditching the Big Six gets rid of the whole, I need to upgrade my (whatever) because I'm higher level now.

Magic items without a numerical advantage, are equipped because they're cool or provide the power to walk along the ceiling... not because you're required to increase a specific bonus to keep up.




4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?You could go with a much lower than normal gold acquisition rate...

If there aren't magical items to be bought at the local Quick-E-Mart, then a large portion of the player's spending won't happen.

Alternatively, split the difference and give most towns some lower level crafting, so most potions and/or scrolls (up to level x) are common.

[digiman619]

3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?
4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?

You might look into the Automatic Bonus Progression (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression), as that takes some of the dependence on magic items and "tons of gold to buy more magic items"


7. Are there any specific Classes in Pathfinder you find to be a little weak or off?
8. What kind of fixes do you tend to put in place to address said weak classes?

I second Path of War and Spheres of Power (the first can be found at the PFSRD and the latter con he found [url=http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/]here[url]).

[Gemini476]

3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?
Beyond the whole "don't just make them number buffers" thing, it's worth remembering that a lot of those number buffers aren't really a thing in E6 anyway (or at least not to the degree you might be used to) - the +2 stat items are CL8, and the rest of the Big Six max out at +2.

But yes, it's a good idea to drop the bonuses entirely and just bake them into the characters.


4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?
The classic example would be a castle, an army, and a dominion. Although if you're not balancing things around the magic item economy that means that you can vastly increase the amount of mundane treasure they get as well.

[Knitifine]

1. What's a good way to implement Gestalt that doesn't just cause people to double up on Casters?
I'm not aware that this is really a problem. I think that there's a lot of drawbacks to this (like not improving most of your base abilities) that aren't really outweighed by getting far more spells than it's even practical to cast.

2. What are some good ways to help keep Martial and Caster classes on an equal playing field?
Paths of War, Forbidding Teleport and Scrying, banning most metamagic feats. Improving caster HP and armor at lower levels. Improving caster HP damage. Spheres of Power and/or Path of War.

3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?
Automatic Bonus Progression, then treat magic items like mini artifacts.

4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?
This is a tricky one, the default amount of gold players earn is ludicrously high. I would suggest lowering it, scrapping it, or focusing on building like... strongholds or something.

5. What are good ways to have players fear each hit and not just shrug off as HP Damage, but without it becoming too punishing?
Increase blaster HP damage at lower levels. Give martials more scaling damage. Path of War might help.

6. What are good systems to put in place to keep players worrying about Survival/Foraging aspects of the game, without it bogging down into tracking minute and tiny details?
I think this is a, have your cake and eat it too scenario. But one possible way to do this is to regular survival to finding water and berries, but make getting meat into a combat encounter. Some animals have pretty good stats, especially when encountered in groups.

7. Are there any specific Classes in Pathfinder you find to be a little weak or off?
Kineticist, Medium, Fighter.

8. What kind of fixes do you tend to put in place to address said weak classes?
Kineticist: Give them full BAB and d10 hit dice.
Medium: Allow the Medium to channel 2 spirits simulataneously at level 10, and 3 spirits a level 20.
Fighter: Give a few more class skills that fit your setting, 6 + Int modifier per level skill ranks, a good reflex save and martial flexibility instead of bonus feats. Alternatively use the Myrmadin fighter from Paths of War.

It occurs to me I mentioned improving blasters a couple times and didn't give any specific examples (probably because by midgame they don't really need buffs).
Improve Arcanist, Wizard, Sorcerer, Witch and similar classes to Cleric BAB and HD.
Give them proficiency in Light Armor and remove arcane spellcasting failure from the game.
Increase the damage on all spells that do solely acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic damage by 1 die size.
Sorcerers could also benefit from 4 or 6 skill ranks per level plus Intelligence modifier, since they don't really tend to have high Intelligence (but watch out for sage cheese if you do this).

Also if you are worried about the disparity between spontaneous and prepared casters, put all prepared casters on the same unlock level as spontaneous ones. That could also help the martial/spellcasting disparity just a touch.

Hope your game goes well.

[Gwazi Magnum]

So a lot of the suggestions I seem to be getting here are Caster Gestalt is fine, Sphere's of Power, Art of War, Strongholds and Bonus Progression.

For Gestalt that's probably true honestly. Cause even for myself the only gish dual caster I can think of is Oracle/Sorcerer. Who is SAD, but at the same time is spontaneous so it would still be losing to a Wizard//???.

For Sphere's of Power I've tried looking into it before, a problem that seemed almost immediately apparent was that it was rather complicated. To the point it spends it's first several paragraphs talking about sphere's without even giving you an idea of what sphere's are. I can see this being an big issue for trying to convince players to use this.

For Art of War it seems a lot like Tome of Battle. Which is somewhat more complicated than base Martial but a lot easier than even Vanilla casting so complexity wise it should be fine. My concern here is that like Tome of Battle it doesn't fix old classes but brings in new ones, which severally limits a players options in what kind of classes/characters they can build if they went that route. At least without me homebrewing a ton, and honestly speaking I don't think I have enough Tome of Battle experience to do so properly.

Strongholds would certainly be an easy default, and I certainly see it being a option. But I'd rather not make that the only option, cause then it might feel like I'm forcing them to build when they may not want to. Though at the same time I'm thinking what I should do is whenever I put these rules into action for a campaign I also just ask the players what they want to do.

Bonus Progression is something I'd probably do if it were normal Pathfinder, but for E6? The bonuses seem small enough it just seems... tiny. +The fact they'd only get Mental Progression and not Physical also seems worrisome. But that'd be as easy as homebrewing it to "+2 to any ability score".


Forbidding Teleport and Scrying, banning most metamagic feats. Improving caster HP and armor at lower levels. Improving caster HP damage.

Teleport and Scrying seems smart, cause that's where most of the abuse for quests tends to come from. XD
Metamagic probably in normal Pathfinder, but in E6 don't they rarely come into play anyways?
The Caster ideas all seem pretty solid, though this also gave me idea of giving them an at-will Spell Like Ability (like a Cantrip) that allows for some decent damage. That way they aren't always 'out' of stuff to do once their spells are gone, which may be easy in E6.


Give martials more scaling damage.

As in just a modifier, scaling each weapon etc?


I think this is a, have your cake and eat it too scenario. But one possible way to do this is to regular survival to finding water and berries, but make getting meat into a combat encounter. Some animals have pretty good stats, especially when encountered in groups.

I like this idea. :3
Though I'd probably need to double this with increased food costs so people don't just buy it to avoid this.


Fighter: Give a few more class skills that fit your setting, 6 + Int modifier per level skill ranks, a good reflex save and martial flexibility instead of bonus feats. Alternatively use the Myrmadin fighter from Paths of War.

It occurs to me I mentioned improving blasters a couple times and didn't give any specific examples (probably because by midgame they don't really need buffs).
Improve Arcanist, Wizard, Sorcerer, Witch and similar classes to Cleric BAB and HD.
Give them proficiency in Light Armor and remove arcane spellcasting failure from the game.
Increase the damage on all spells that do solely acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic damage by 1 die size.
Sorcerers could also benefit from 4 or 6 skill ranks per level plus Intelligence modifier, since they don't really tend to have high Intelligence (but watch out for sage cheese if you do this).


Fighter I tend to massively overhaul. Since making this thread I did a few tweaks like 4 + INT Skill Ranks, more class skills.
But I also added stuff like the following:

1. Ability to add Teamwork feats to allies like the Holy Tactician (but as a Swift Action)
2. AC bonus equal to levels in Fighter
3. Proficiency with Exotic Weapons

The Casters seem nice too though. Would certainly help round them out in low level settings.

[digiman619]

For Art of War it seems a lot like Tome of Battle.

Wow; I didn't know Sun Tsu worked for Dreamscarred Press!

[Mechalich]

I put a lot of thought into an P6 setting, so I have some thoughts on this topic.


2. What are some good ways to help keep Martial and Caster classes on an equal playing field?

Limit metamagic, specifically, limit metamagic cost reduction. Most metamagic chicanery is downright impossible to fit into spell slots that top out at 3rd without cost reduction.


3. What can I do to help make Magic Items big deals in their own right, and not just something people grab as number buffers?

The standard move is to take the caster level requirements very seriously. This makes most traditional magical items simply unavailable in the setting (or at least almost impossibly rare), and makes highly specific effects (notably weapons of +0, X Bane) useful for specific adventure purposes out of those that remain. Also, because magical items are now very rare, they cost more.


4. Likewise, what are good things to have players invest gold into that isn't just buying magic items. Since I plan for such items to be earned, not bought at magic-mart?


I invented a ritual magic system that was a giant gold-eating machine, which also serves to in some ways limit the power of casters. In E6/P6 characters should also be spending more money on services, followers, and transport. For example: owning or hiring a ship is now a meaningful thing in game if you want to go somewhere fast. Hiring a company of mercenary archers is also a useful support strategy for certain encounter types.


5. What are good ways to have players fear each hit and not just shrug off as HP Damage, but without it becoming too punishing?

The system changes should take care of this by itself. There are fewer hit points in general, you don't have the ability to buy magical Constitution boosters with spare wealth because they largely don't exist, and if you die you're dead pretty much permanently (since the spells to raise people are too high level to function). Healing magic will also be less powerful and less abundant. The local community has very few priests available to spare divine magic for you, certainly not enough to constantly restore a party. Also, restricting the availability of clerical wands helps.


6. What are good systems to put in place to keep players worrying about Survival/Foraging aspects of the game, without it bogging down into tracking minute and tiny details?

Unfortunately, even in E6, magic is powerful enough to handle most natural hazards without much difficulty. However, disease and poison remain potentially powerful options throughout E6 progression, as dealing with them suddenly takes some of the most powerful magic in the setting.

[Knitifine]

As in just a modifier, scaling each weapon etc?A quick and dirty rule would be to have every character add 1/2 their BAB to damage rolls. Or having feats like Weapon Specialization and Weapon Focus double their bonus (additively, x2 -> x3 -> x4 instead of x2 -> x4 -> x8) every 5 levels.

[upho]

Most of my own thoughts on this subject have already been said repeatedly and eloquently by other posters, so I'd just like to add few details primarily regarding martials:


Give martials more scaling damage.Respectfully, I think increased damage output is the very last thing martials need. I strongly recommend you do NOT do this, since single-target HP damage already is the martial thing, a thing which can already be done in early levels to a point where I believe most people consider it broken (no hyperbole).

As you may very well already know, even in a game limited to Paizo options, for example a ragebred (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp#TOC-Wereboar-Kin-Ragebred-) bloodrager 5/monk 1 with less than standard WBL can have a full attack consisting of 4 primary and 2 secondary natural attacks, generating an average DPR which will easily one-shot an "average" CR 6 enemy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation). (This is without haste or other party support, possible during 15+ rounds/day with no prep needed, the limitation rather being the typical martial need for full attacks and thus having to start turns within 15 ft. of an enemy that can be attacked.) Add gestalt and DSP material like Path of War, Bloodforge and Akashic Mysteries, and the DPR can be virtually doubled, enough to one-shot a CR 8 or 9 enemy. AFAIK, even the "modest" version without gestalt or DSP stuff has consistent single-target DPR beyond what a 6th level full caster is capable of producing (with the possible exception of a druid with an opted companion?), probably even during a hypothetical single daily ideal "all-in" round with several rounds of prep.

Instead, I recommend you try to boost the most glaring weaknesses of martials, for example:

Combat Maneuvers
Could've been great tools for much needed increased martial versatility and more dynamic tactical combat, allowing for a martial combat focus other than DPR yet equally viable. But unfortunately CMs are generally severely limited by poor action economy, too significant risks and/or various immunities or practically unbeatable CMD values. And since a specific CM typically becomes an effective use of the action it requires only with significant investments, strongly encouraging/enforcing specialization instead of versatility, the current CM options often result in one-trick pony builds with a highly "binary" combat efficiency. Or in players simply not bothering and staying with the old "repeat full attack ad nauseam to deal max damage", since that focus has much greater support and at least tends to be more reliable in most games. To change this, I recommend using house rules similar to these (http://theworldissquare.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/) (modified with options published later, such as Dirty Fighting), and to alter/remove some of the more debilitating limitations on CMs, such as flying creatures being immune to trip, grapple size and action limitations, dirty trick action economy feat taxes etc. You shouldn't have to dip fighter just in order to get all the feats currently required to effectively use more than one CM, and your investments shouldn't be voided with increasing frequency the higher up the levels you get (rather the opposite) IMO. PoW/PoW:E can also help remedy this problem.

Lack of Viable Combat Role Options
Closely related to the issues with CMs is the issue that all Paizo martial classes are consisting of mechanics primarily suitable for single-target DPR specialists, or "primary striker/secondary [whatever]" using 4e terminology. When considering the relatively large number of martial classes and options, the combat role distribution is pretty awful; the "striker" role being crowded by martial classes unable to leave, while the role also has a disproportionately large number of related combat options in general. Continuing with the 4e terminology, the fact that it's practically impossible for a Paizo martial build to function even remotely as well as 6/9 or full casters can in a controller, leader or even a potential defender role is a major problem. PoW, and perhaps even more so PoW:E, is by far the best currently available medication against this disease IME.

Lack of Strong Utility/Out of Combat Options
As mentioned by other posters, giving martials more skill points is a good first step. Since we're talking E6, magic most likely won't make skills redundant outside of combat, but I'd still suggest you also take a look at Skill Unchained (if you haven't already), and perhaps give Paizo martial classes their choice of Signature Skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/signature-skill-general) as bonus feats up to maybe three times during their career, making their most highly prioritized skills more valuable. You may also consider (a better version of) Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) as a bonus feat for martials investing in Craft. Again, PoW/PoW:E helps, since all classes and archetypes gain at least 4 skill points/level and their combat prowess always rely on one mental stat in addition to physical ones, which may for example help make Cha much less of a dump stat and make investments into social skills more worthwhile.

Thankfully, I think the above will be enough for an E6 game, especially with gestalt, although I personally might also use Spheres of Power (heard a lot of good things about it but haven't yet tried it out). I actually think the biggest balance issue might not be the full casters in this case, but rather the combat prowess of the PoW/E classes, as they have a pretty high optimization floor and especially a few of the lower level options are very powerful. Since you're probably not starting the game anytime soon, I suggest you also keep your eyes open for the upcoming errata to PoW which will most likely remove the problems (the devs are very much aware of the issues and discuss them openly here on GitPG).


For Art of War it seems a lot like Tome of Battle. Which is somewhat more complicated than base Martial but a lot easier than even Vanilla casting so complexity wise it should be fine. My concern here is that like Tome of Battle it doesn't fix old classes but brings in new ones, which severally limits a players options in what kind of classes/characters they can build if they went that route. At least without me homebrewing a ton, and honestly speaking I don't think I have enough Tome of Battle experience to do so properly.While I do think the PoW series makes for some of the very best player content published for the game so far, I wouldn't say it's on quite the same "world-changing masterpiece" kind of level as the Art of War... :smallwink:

Anyhow, PoW is based on ToB and uses a near identical system, but the classes and maneuvers are all new and unique, and are generally better designed than those in ToB IMO. In addition, PoW now has a lot more options and more coming, while DSP also has a great "open door" policy and an ongoing dialogue with the player base (as can be seen in the many playtest threads here on GitPG and the Paizo boards). I don't think there's any reason to fear PoW will "severally limit a players options", since it currently includes 21 full disciplines and six base classes having (IIRC) no less than 28 related archetypes, in addition to several PrCs and notably archetypes for the bard, barbarian, fighter, monk, pally, ranger, rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/archetypes-for-non-martial-classes) and quite a few non-CRB Paizo classes and psionic classes, plus a ton of feats and a few traits. In total, a huge amount of options, a very large majority of them also being at the very least good and meaningful, for example helping to drastically increase the number of viable build types which can be based on the same base class, while there are very few traps.

That said, I think also PoW generally focuses a bit too much on damage and not enough on utility. But adding it most definitely improves the game in the right direction IMO.

[Ualaa]

For Sphere's of Power I've tried looking into it before, a problem that seemed almost immediately apparent was that it was rather complicated. To the point it spends it's first several paragraphs talking about sphere's without even giving you an idea of what sphere's are. I can see this being an big issue for trying to convince players to use this.

Two pages of material (pages 8 and 9, in the Hardcover) summarize the entire mechanics of the system. In Spheres, some terms have a different meaning than the same term does in Pathfinder, and a few new mechanics are introduced. Everything system related is covered on these pages.

Of course the rest of the book gives the actual spheres & talents, feats, classes and archetypes. All of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook casting classes have archetypes within the main book, for converting them to the Spheres system while retaining the non-casting class abilities (flavor). 'Expanded Options' has archetypes for the casting classes from 'Advanced Player's Guide' and 'Advanced Class Guide', plus favored class options for the Core Races and archetypes for the classes introduced within the main Spheres book.

If your group uses Hero Labs for characters, 'The Iron Golem' has the base book, the 'Expanded Options' book, and so far 'The Destroyer's Handbook' coded for use with HL as purchasable packages. I'd assume the other handbooks are coming gradually.

Endzeitgeist has an awesome review, on the Drive Thru RPG site.


Bonus Progression is something I'd probably do if it were normal Pathfinder, but for E6? The bonuses seem small enough it just seems... tiny. +The fact they'd only get Mental Progression and not Physical also seems worrisome. But that'd be as easy as homebrewing it to "+2 to any ability score".

You could try the 4th edition take... Everyone effectively gets +1 (per 2 full levels) to d20 rolls that govern attacks and defenses.
In 4th, Fort/Ref/Will are defenses like AC, with a value equal to 10 + Modifiers instead of d20 + Modifiers; they still scale the same.
So a 20th level Wizard (not possible in E6/E8, I know), has a +10 to their attacks & defenses, purely based off of their experiences (ie., level), and while they may not have the melee capability of a Fighter, they are more than a match for a level 7 Fighter in a beat each other to do death with only swords competition.

[digiman619]

Spheres of Power is a completely new magic system that may be used alongside or may completely replace the core Pathfinder spell system.
Like spells, the spheres grant a magic user the ability to accomplish great things that would otherwise be impossible. Bending
fire, summoning angels, layering enchantments on an unsuspecting creature’s mind: all of this and more is possible for a master of the spheres.
Like spells, spheres require levels in a magic-using class. Using a sphere ability provokes an attack of opportunity (unless cast defensively), requires a concentration check in difficult situations, ceases to function in an anti-magic field, and is subject to spell resistance. Unlike spells, however, sphere abilities do not require gestures or magic words, nor are they divided between Arcane and Divine sources (although another part of this wiki details Casting Traditions (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions)—a way for players and GMs to re-introduce these particulars and distinctions). Likewise, just as a fighter may take levels in other martial classes without sacrificing his combat ability, a caster may take multiple casting classes without necessarily dividing his power.
Where the core Pathfinder magic system grants access to spells and spell levels, magic users using the Spheres of Power system (referred to as ‘casters’ on this site) use spheres and talents.
There are 20 spheres contained in this system, including Alteration (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/alteration), Creation (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/creation), Conjuration (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/conjuration), Dark (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/dark), Death (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/death), Destruction (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/destruction), Divination (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/divination), Enhancement (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/enhancement), Fate (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fate), Illusion (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/illusion), Light (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/light), Life (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/life), Mind (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mind), Nature (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/nature), Protection (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/protection), Telekinesis (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis), Time (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/time), War (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/war), Warp (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/warp), and Weather (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/weather).
Spheres provide a caster with a broad magical focus; for example, powers that deal with moving objects through space are contained in the Telekinesis (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/telekinesis) sphere, while powers that deal with manipulating winds and rain are contained in the Weather (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/weather) sphere. Each sphere provides the caster with an at-will ability, which may be further refined through gaining talents associated with that sphere. Beyond the spheres themselves (located elsewhere on this Wiki), there are several terms that must be explained for use with this system: Magic Talents, Caster Level, Casting Ability Modifier, Casting Time, Distances, Spell Points, Saving Throw Difficulty Class, and Magic Skill Bonus and Magic Skill Defense.
Magic Talents

As a caster gains levels, they gain magic talents. Magic talents, like feats, may be spent to allow a caster to gain new powers and abilities.
Whenever a caster gains a magic talent, they may spend it in one of two ways: to gain a new base sphere or to gain a talent
associated with a sphere they already possess. The number of magic talents a caster gains differs between classes, but all characters gain two bonus magic talents the first time they gain a level in a casting class, regardless of which class is chosen. Once a talent is spent, it cannot be changed except through retraining, which follows the same rules as retraining a feat.
Caster Level

Caster level is not as synonymous with class level in SoP as it is with most of the core Pathfinder spellcasting classes. Instead,
it would be more appropriate to think it as akin to Base Attack Bonus: as a creature gains levels in a casting class, they gain caster levels at different rates depending on the class chosen. A multi-classed caster determines his total caster levels by adding together his caster levels from all his classes, similar to how Base Attack Bonus is cumulated between all classes. A caster level of 0 is treated as if it were 1 when determining a caster’s capabilities.
All casting classes fall into one of three categories: High-Casters (wizards, sorcerers, clerics, incanters, soul weavers, fey adepts, etc.), Mid-Casters (bards, magi, inquisitors, symbiats, eliciters, etc.), and Low-Casters (paladins, rangers, armorists, mageknights, etc.). Each of these groups gains caster levels at a slightly different rate, as indicated by Table: Caster Level.
Table: Caster Level


Level
High Caster
Mid-Caster
Low Caster


1
+1
0
0


2
+2
+1
+1


3
+3
+2
+1


4
+4
+3
+2


5
+5
+3
+2


6
+6
+4
+3


7
+7
+5
+3


8
+8
+6
+4


9
+9
+6
+4


10
+10
+7
+5


11
+11
+8
+5


12
+12
+9
+6


13
+13
+9
+6


14
+14
+10
+7


15
+15
+11
+7


16
+16
+12
+8


17
+17
+12
+8


18
+18
+13
+9


19
+19
+14
+9


20
+20
+15
+10


Casting Ability Modifier

Not every class in the Spheres of Power system uses the same mental ability score when determining their magical potency. Just as with the core Pathfinder magic system, some classes use Intelligence, some use Wisdom, and others use Charisma. In Spheres of Power, this is called their casting ability modifier (CAM). Casting ability modifiers are used to determine the Difficulty Class of sphere abilities, as well as the caster’s total number of spell points.
When adapting an existing class to the Spheres of Power system, use whichever mental ability score was originally used when determining spell potency. For classes listed on this site, their mental ability score is listed, or in some cases the player is allowed to choose whichever ability score he prefers.
If a caster takes levels in multiple casting classes, they must select which of those classes’ casting ability modifiers they will use as their casting ability modifier; only one may be applied.
Multiple Traditions is an exception to this rule (see the bottom of the Casting Traditions (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions) page).
Casting Time

Most sphere abilities require a standard action to use, but there are exceptions. Certain abilities, such as metamagic feats and
some drawbacks, may increase or decrease a casting time by a certain number of ‘steps’ as seen in Chart: Casting Times. Note: Unless otherwise specified, a sphere ability cannot have a shorter casting time than a swift action, nor a longer casting time than 1 hour.
Chart: Casting Times


1 Hour


10 Minutes


1 Minute


1 Round


Full-Round Action


Standard Action


Move Action


Swift Action


Distances

Many sphere abilities use Close, Medium, and Long as indicators for their range. Just as with spells, Close equals 25 ft + 5 ft per 2 caster levels, Medium equals 100 ft + 10 ft per caster level, and Long equals 400 ft + 40 ft per caster level.
Spell Points

Along with gaining caster levels, casters using the SoP system also gain a spell pool, which accumulates spell points as they gain levels. Spell points are a measure of a spellcaster’s capability and are spent to increase the power of their various sphere abilities. Each caster gains a pool of spell points equal to their class level plus their casting ability modifier. Just like with caster level, a caster adds together all their levels in Sphere casting classes when determining the size of their spell pool. If they possess levels in multiple casting classes, add those class levels together when determining the number of spell points possessed.
A caster’s spell pool refreshes every day after roughly 8 hours of rest. These hours do not need to be consecutive.
Saving Throw Difficulty Class

Whenever a sphere ability calls for a saving throw, the Difficulty Class (DC) for that saving throw is equal to 10 + 1/2 the caster level + the caster’s casting ability modifier. If the targeted creature meets or exceeds this number with their saving throw, they often reduce or negate the effect. If a caster chooses to use an effect at a lower caster level than his maximum, the DC is also lowered.
Magic Skill Bonus and Magic Skill Defense

Sometimes, it isn’t a caster’s raw power that is important, but rather his skill and experience with magic in general. This includes concentration checks or times when a caster directly pits his magic against that of another caster. At these times, the caster’s magic skill bonus (MSB) and magic skill defense (MSD) are used to determine the outcome.
A caster’s MSB is equal to his total levels in casting classes.
A caster’s MSD is equal to 11 + his total levels in casting classes.
Sometimes, a power or circumstance will call for a magic skill check. At this point, the caster making the check rolls a d20 and adds her MSB to the roll. If this equals or exceeds the target’s MSD, the check succeeds. If not, the check fails.
When a Sphere caster makes a concentration check (as called for by the Pathfinder Core rulebook), instead of rolling a d20 and adding his caster level + his casting ability modifier, he rolls a d20 and adds his MSB + his casting ability modifier to the roll. Treat an effect’s caster level/2 as the effective spell level for this purpose. A spellcaster may always choose to manifest a magical effect at a lower caster level than his total in order to make a concentration check easier. Unlike with vancian magic, it is possible to cast a sphere ability while already concentrating on another, so long as the concentration and the casting use different actions
Example: When casting defensively, a caster must make a concentration check (1d20 + caster level + Int, Wis, or Cha) against a DC equal to 15 + double the spell level. In SoP, this would instead require a check equal to 1d20 + MSB + casting ability modifier, and would be against a DC equal to 15 + the caster level of the ability.
When attempting to penetrate a creature’s Spell Resistance, she rolls a d20 and adds her MSB to the roll. An MSB is also used when attempting to counter another caster’s magic, such as when using the Counterspell feat.
Any feat or ability that would normally call for a caster level check instead calls for an MSB check. Any feat or ability that normally adds to a creature’s caster level for the purposes of one of the caster level checks listed above instead adds to their MSB for that purpose.
When combining SoP with the core Pathfinder magic system, whenever a caster level check is called for or when a DC of 10 or 11 + a creature’s caster level is called for, the character’s MSB and MSD should be substituted respectively.

Also, if you want to try the rules without buying first, head to its wiki here (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com). It also has the info for Radiance House's Pact Magic (which is inspired by/a translation of the Binder class for Tome of Magic) and Interjection Games' Strange Magic (which includes 3 non-Vancian magic systems, including a fix of the infamously bad truenamer class, also from Tome of Magic)

[Tvtyrant]

I include the human sacrifice rulea from Book of Vile Darkness to explain bug spells and horrid things like liches and vampires. Make a good enough sacrifice and you get a 1 time wish from a dark god, which can create undead, constructs, forcewalls, etc.