Betraying the Party; Help me!

[Alphabetmaster]

I require some help here. My DM had allowed me to dust off one of my old character sheets when I joined the party. Thing is, she's a good character, and well, the rest of the party is Evil. Like CE Evil. Long story short, my DM had me join in as a 'spy', who'd give up information to the 'good guys', and would sabotage the party.
This entire time, I've been under the effects of Polymorph Subschool Spells & mis/non-direction & disguise alignment. The usual 'hide me' spells.

But it is nearly time for me to spread my true wings and stop them once and for all.

Thing is, what build should I use for taking them on? Note that it doesn't necessarily mean I'll be taking them head on, but I want to give them a chance; we're all players here.

I also have the service of a trained griffon. Mechanically, this is an Awakened Magebred Griffon, with 3 RHD and 5 Class levels (DM fiat'd to work). Both the Magebred special ability and the class levels are up to me. I may be able to swap out the rest of the RHD for pure class levels, but no guarantees. Intelligence 18. (Triple 6, yay.)

Requirements
- Build is of 8th level
- Build must have some form of sneak attack (or spells/abilities/magic items that could fool the untrained eye into believing that it was)
- High-ish UMD or spell so UMD is irrelevant
- I have 40,000gp to spend (I've been siphoning off money from the rest of the party... idiots.)

Party
- Specialist Wizard 8 (I forget what he banned and what he specialised in, but it made me lol; terrible optimisation choices. I'll post it here when I can get a peek at his build.)
- Cleric 8 (Again, I forget the domains. I'll find them out. He's the healbot kind.)
- Fighter 8 (The epitome of BSF, rolepaly and mechanics wise.)
- Rogue 8 (Trusts me. A lot.)
- Ranger 8 (Can't always make it, so not much information here.)
- Rogue 3/ Bard 5 (The waste-of-space uber-squishy insane guy that nobody likes.)

What they think I am
- Rogue 5/Fighter 1/Assassin 1

Current Equipment
+1 Silent Moves Leather Armor
+1 Hideaway Merciful Longbow
+1 Hideaway Adamantine Dagger (x2)
Various Minor potions (CLW, Enlarge Person, etc)
Scout's Headband
Many, many wands, with 1-5 charges in them (My character casts 'spells' by waving a stick, then promptly discarding said stick to reach for a more manly weapon)
5 crystals of lesser Returning

...What? I don't need silly magic items! Until now, that is.

This is a relatively unexperienced party, as I'm sure you can tell. As for books, core only (Ew...) + MIC + SpC.
I might be able to get away with taking a single class from somewhere else, such as Scout (Only one I've used at their table that isn't core), and I'm trying to get my hands on Bo9S. Again, no guarantees.

Playground, I demand your assistance!

[XionUnborn01]

I'm just gonna throw this out there right away. Betraying the party is almost never a good idea, even with DM approval and especially when you're more experienced than tham and are using their stolen resources to do it. It can really leave a bad taste in their mouth and can very well lead to a broken group if they feel the DM is giving you special treatment.

[Alphabetmaster]

I'm just gonna throw this out there right away. Betraying the party is almost never a good idea, even with DM approval and especially when you're more experienced than tham and are using their stolen resources to do it. It can really leave a bad taste in their mouth and can very well lead to a broken group if they feel the DM is giving you special treatment.

They're kinda expecting it. It's been hinted at for ages, and well, it's a crazy CE party. It's all just a game of who backstabs the other first, even before I joined. That principle expands to every game we play together.

Don't even get me started on the WarhammerTM campaign...

Oh and no 'special treatment' per say. I've had to do all the dirty work myself, and the DM has allowed Scout in advance. It just so happens that nobody's looked at it.

Besides, it's two vs six + 2. What could possibly go wrong? :smalltongue:

But you have a point. I'll keep off the Bo9S for this one.

[Yogibear41]

Could go for the exalted rogue prestige class from the BOEDs it has sneak attack, good saves, and spells.

For advice, you should split the party, and kill the wizard first. Wait til you can catch him flatfooted with no magical protections and kill him in 1 round with a full attack.

Sneak Attack Fighter 2/Rogue 3/Slayer of Domiel 3 has +5d6 sneak attack, +6 bab, divine grace, and 2nd level spells. If you can catch him flatfooted that should easily be able to handle 8d4+whatever HP with a full attack, especially if you are TWF.


After wizard is dead, you could always just make a break for it and use your griffin mount for aerial superiority, once the wizard is down, not much they can do to you once you fly away. Could potentially just poke them to death, or just fly away and they shouldn't be able to catch you. Unless the cleric or ranger has something specifically prepared for that with spells, or they are all great at ranged combat.

[Alphabetmaster]

After wizard is dead, you could always just make a break for it and use your griffin mount for aerial superiority, once the wizard is down, not much they can do to you once you fly away. Could potentially just poke them to death, or just fly away and they shouldn't be able to catch you. Unless the cleric or ranger has something specifically prepared for that with spells, or they are all great at ranged combat.

I was always going to get the wizard first. My time on the boards has taught me that.
Interesting build, I seem to like.

What class levels should I give my griffon?

[Zanos]

- Specialist Wizard 8 (I forget what he banned and what he specialised in, but it made me lol; terrible optimisation choices. I'll post it here when I can get a peek at his build.)

You're actually gonna metagame knowledge about other PCs statistics so you can kill them?

Not very cool.

[Name1]

You're actually gonna metagame knowledge about other PCs statistics so you can kill them?

Not very cool.

I kinda have to agree here. It's something different if your character knows their stats and abilities due to careful observation, but don't get too meta, as that can tur very ugly very quickly.

[Alphabetmaster]

I kinda have to agree here. It's something different if your character knows their stats and abilities due to careful observation, but don't get too meta, as that can tur very ugly very quickly.

I asked him to use a wand of something once and he refused because he'd banned the school. I've just forgotten what school it was, because I discard the wands when I use them myself. I'm not a meta cheat (atleast, I'm trying), and I've asked a lot of questions about what the party does. It's not too hard to ask about the ideals that the cleric embodies.

And hey, I don't know their actual stats. I have a vague idea, but tis all.
Or their HP, incidentally. I should really find that out. Somehow.
...I'm starting to really be put off by this now.

EDIT: I think it was Mage Armor. But now I need to go and ask him.
...And it's not like I have much of a choice anymore. It's a fairly large part of the plotline. I dunno how the DM intends to handle it, but I was always going to stalemate or lose, taking a few of them with me.

Damn, you make me feel awful for trying to defend myself.

[Name1]

Damn, you make me feel awful for trying to defend myself.

...Now I feel sad...

Anyway, if you want to know his banned school, maybe you could ask him IC under the guise of stocking up on scrolls? Something along the lines of "I'm gonna go buy scrolls, can you remind me what you can't use so I don't waste money on it?" When it comes to ability scores, you could say that by observing them you got a general sense of where their abilities lie and it shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you don't Shivering Touch someone because you know he has just low enough dex.

Maybe you should also get a few detect magics to get a feel for what their equipment does, or maybe a wand of identify to know for sure. However, you may tip your hand if you do this too obviously, but then again, the fact that your behaviour is kinda suspicious is the biggest chance you can give them: If they don't call you out on it, you can be as brutal as you want without your conscience annoying you.

[Sandsarecool]

Damn, you make me feel awful for trying to defend myself.
I can't say for certain, but it just sounds like you've got carried away with your wording here.
Playgrounders tend to hound people for the specific words they use (as they carry certain connotations) which you may not have meant when you were originally writing your post. Try slowing down and explaining better. Don't worry, we've all been there.

But nobody likes a cheat.

Oh, and don't over-simplify things for the sake of brevity. It leads to assumptions that you don't want.


Now, to be helpful, I'd say you probably want a reliable source of SA for the quick takedowns. Give your mount some tanking capabilities, Druid works well if you can get it to fly. Otherwise take a spellcaster (Hunter's Eye give you SA for a round = CL if I remember correctly, though you'll have to dip rogue) and have your mount (are you even using it as a mount?) take, uh... Cleric? I'm not very good at pure core classes, I'm afraid...

[Alphabetmaster]

...Now I feel sad...

Anyway, if you want to know his banned school, maybe you could ask him IC under the guise of stocking up on scrolls? Something along the lines of "I'm gonna go buy scrolls, can you remind me what you can't use so I don't waste money on it?" When it comes to ability scores, you could say that by observing them you got a general sense of where their abilities lie and it shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you don't Shivering Touch someone because you know he has just low enough dex.

Maybe you should also get a few detect magics to get a feel for what their equipment does, or maybe a wand of identify to know for sure. However, you may tip your hand if you do this too obviously, but then again, the fact that your behaviour is kinda suspicious is the biggest chance you can give them: If they don't call you out on it, you can be as brutal as you want without your conscience annoying you.

I've more or less been doing this for the last six months IRL, four years in game. Hell, as the most experienced player, they throw all the loot at me and I end up doing most of the dividing. Sorry If I came off badly; just a little frustrated at the time. And you made me sad. No hard feelings, though. :smallbiggrin:


I can't say for certain, but it just sounds like you've got carried away with your wording here.
Playgrounders tend to hound people for the specific words they use (as they carry certain connotations) which you may not have meant when you were originally writing your post. Try slowing down and explaining better. Don't worry, we've all been there.

But nobody likes a cheat.

Oh, and don't over-simplify things for the sake of brevity. It leads to assumptions that you don't want.


Now, to be helpful, I'd say you probably want a reliable source of SA for the quick takedowns. Give your mount some tanking capabilities, Druid works well if you can get it to fly. Otherwise take a spellcaster (Hunter's Eye give you SA for a round = CL if I remember correctly, though you'll have to dip rogue) and have your mount (are you even using it as a mount?) take, uh... Cleric? I'm not very good at pure core classes, I'm afraid...

Druid? Uh, why not, if I can get my DM to agree. And I will try to make future posts more clear. I promise!

[Zanos]

I'll say that I don't know a lot about your group, but you killing them is obviously going to end the campaign. I mean, it's almost worse with DM approval, although I think in that case as a player I would be pissed at the DM more than the player. It could be that this is a fine thing in your playgroup, I dunno.

As for advice, I feel kind of dirty giving any, but you're playing a stealthy character, and the party at least somewhat trusts you. Wait until your watch shift and then just slit all their throats with coup de graces?

[Fizban]

You have a Griffon that needs class levels and your DM already okayed scout but everyone looked at it and passed it up? I think you know what class needs to go on that Griffon to make that wizard die dead.

Dunno what to do for Schrodenger's PC though. Sounds like you've already been doing a very specific set of things that can't be duplicated with just any build. We'd need a list of wands, and the various events that have the party believing you're a rogue/assassin.

[Quertus]

... How have you... Dusted off an old character... Who doesn't have defined classes? :smallconfused:

How do you... Have 40k... In undefined items?

How do you... Have a griffin... With undefined class levels... And maybe no racial HD? (gonna second making it a scout)

You've been studying the party bloody forever, and just can't remember a detail your character knows regarding banned schools. That's fine, ask the DM (who is in on it) if they remember what your character knows in that regard.

Gonna second twf sneak attack for the alpha strike. Griffin-mounted spirited charge + reach weapon is difficult for most parties to deal with.

[Alphabetmaster]

You have a Griffon that needs class levels and your DM already okayed scout but everyone looked at it and passed it up? I think you know what class needs to go on that Griffon to make that wizard die dead.

Dunno what to do for Schrodenger's PC though. Sounds like you've already been doing a very specific set of things that can't be duplicated with just any build. We'd need a list of wands, and the various events that have the party believing you're a rogue/assassin.
I have thus far been able to deal additional damage via spells under the guise of SA. I have never used things such as poisons and death attacks, so the party has no knowledge of these things. They just know I have a bow (and I'm a terrible shot) and loads of minor spells.
Spells that the party have seen me cast include:
Magic missile CL 1
CLW
Enlarge Person
Lesser Vigour
Benign Transposition
True Strike
Summon Monster I

I can't find my sheets. I'll post the others when I do.
I've paid for those with wealth. So even if I COULD cast them, I have been using wands.


... How have you... Dusted off an old character... Who doesn't have defined classes? :smallconfused: The orginal character had levels of things like unseen seer. DM had me hastily rebuild for the table, with the promise that I could rebuild at some point when I was going to face the party.


How do you... Have 40k... In undefined items?
No, no. 40kgp, not undefined items.


How do you... Have a griffin... With undefined class levels... And maybe no racial HD? (gonna second making it a scout)
Uh, my old character has plot reasons? Back then we came from a relatively high optimisation. Party had a wight? level drain a lot of our animals so we could throw class levels at them. Undefined as, well, illegal class now.


You've been studying the party bloody forever, and just can't remember a detail your character knows regarding banned schools. That's fine, ask the DM (who is in on it) if they remember what your character knows in that regard.
Scout it is then. I'll go prod people for the answers again.


Gonna second twf sneak attack for the alpha strike. Griffin-mounted spirited charge + reach weapon is difficult for most parties to deal with.
Alright.

[Alphabetmaster]

I'll say that I don't know a lot about your group, but you killing them is obviously going to end the campaign. I mean, it's almost worse with DM approval, although I think in that case as a player I would be pissed at the DM more than the player. It could be that this is a fine thing in your playgroup, I dunno.

As for advice, I feel kind of dirty giving any, but you're playing a stealthy character, and the party at least somewhat trusts you. Wait until your watch shift and then just slit all their throats with coup de graces?

Yes, it's going to end the campaign. That was his idea. The only reason I came here for a build was because I didn't want to coup de grace them all in their sleep. That WILL leave a bad taste in their mouths. Hell, I don't have to kill all of them. I'm fine losing, or running away after I've killed one or two. I can play tactics from there.

[bekeleven]

I'll say that I don't know a lot about your group, but you killing them is obviously going to end the campaign. I mean, it's almost worse with DM approval, although I think in that case as a player I would be pissed at the DM more than the player. It could be that this is a fine thing in your playgroup, I dunno.

As for advice, I feel kind of dirty giving any, but you're playing a stealthy character, and the party at least somewhat trusts you. Wait until your watch shift and then just slit all their throats with coup de graces?

Here's what you do.

Wait until you're keeping watch and the other characters are asleep.

Nod to the GM and share the moment that your character kills the rest of the party and ends the campaign.

Then, since that campaign is well and truly dead, start a new campaign. In this campaign, your working with the party, instead of against it. Also, to save time, the other players can play their old characters. And, to save more time, the game can have the same setting, and the same backstory. In fact, it can begin at night, as your character keeps watch for the rest of the party.

And to save more time, the other players don't need to be told of this.

[Knitifine]

... How have you... Dusted off an old character... Who doesn't have defined classes? :smallconfused:

How do you... Have 40k... In undefined items?

How do you... Have a griffin... With undefined class levels... And maybe no racial HD? (gonna second making it a scout)All of these are giant red flags that read as "Special DM Treatment" to me.

[Quertus]

The orginal character had levels of things like unseen seer. DM had me hastily rebuild for the table, with the promise that I could rebuild at some point when I was going to face the party.


No, no. 40kgp, not undefined items.


Uh, my old character has plot reasons? Back then we came from a relatively high optimisation. Party had a wight? level drain a lot of our animals so we could throw class levels at them. Undefined as, well, illegal class now.

Your character - and you griffin - had "illegal" class levels, thus necessitating a rebuild for this world / campaign. And, because you didn't have time to properly rebuild the character, you're allowed to rebuild right before the final confrontation. But, for consistency, you want your abilities to match up with what you have thus far done. Gotcha.

And the 40k gp... You are going to have the opportunity to spend it before your final betrayal? Otherwise, I'd suggest just dropping it on the party from great heights as a fairly lethal tactic.

[Enguebert]

They are evil ?
If they have commited evil acts, local guards/lord/paladin group want to capture/kill them

Contact them and set up an ambush with them
During the ambush, one enemy spellcaster cast a charm spell on you (give them a scroll of domination)
DM ask to roll save behind screen.
Then you act like dominated and strike back at party

You + the guards/lord/paladin can take down at least some of the party members

And if party succeed, you can continue with them because they will think you were charmed and try again later

[-D-]

Speaking of betraying the party. Currently, our party is trying to betray a single player.

He's playing the "lAwful Good" kind of character, i.e. claims to be Lawful Good, but acts as Chaotic Chaos.
Explanation - we were fighting a vampire lord and said lord kicked our asses pretty bad. However we managed to get his heart. However, our Awful Good player demanded that we give him the heart (which we did), which periodically regenerates, so he had to put it fire for a very, very long time. Imagine setting that heart every day for a good month or so, instead of putting it in holy water or disintegrating it (facepalm). Not to mention he assassinated a bunch of Nobles, because he needed their blood. To be fair, he pretended to be captured and wanted to negotiate with Nobles, but they kept knocking him unconscious. Repeatably. While rest of party was fighting said Nobles and their heavy armored knights.

However rest of party has been mostly coopted by Cthulu, GM gave us conflicting tasks. Either we accrue some part of doomsday ritual and summon Cthulu, or our Awful Good players accrues some parts of a magic swords and cleanses world in his name.
I kinda don't want to betray him, but then I'm betraying most of the party, so I'm not sure what's worse.

[Name1]

They are evil ?
If they have commited evil acts, local guards/lord/paladin group want to capture/kill them

Contact them and set up an ambush with them
During the ambush, one enemy spellcaster cast a charm spell on you (give them a scroll of domination)
DM ask to roll save behind screen.
Then you act like dominated and strike back at party

You + the guards/lord/paladin can take down at least some of the party members

And if party succeed, you can continue with them because they will think you were charmed and try again later

This basically works the same way with good characters, which I wanted tomention just in case: Good people will be attacked by local chromatic dragons or mind flayer colonies instead.


Speaking of betraying the party. Currently, our party is trying to betray a single player.

He's playing the "lAwful Good" kind of character, i.e. claims to be Lawful Good, but acts as Chaotic Chaos.
Explanation - we were fighting a vampire lord and said lord kicked our asses pretty bad. However we managed to get his heart. However, our Awful Good player demanded that we give him the heart (which we did), which periodically regenerates, so he had to put it fire for a very, very long time. Imagine setting that heart every day for a good month or so, instead of putting it in holy water or disintegrating it (facepalm). Not to mention he assassinated a bunch of Nobles, because he needed their blood. To be fair, he pretended to be captured and wanted to negotiate with Nobles, but they kept knocking him unconscious. Repeatably. While rest of party was fighting said Nobles and their heavy armored knights.

However rest of party has been mostly coopted by Cthulu, GM gave us conflicting tasks. Either we accrue some part of doomsday ritual and summon Cthulu, or our Awful Good players accrues some parts of a magic swords and cleanses world in his name.
I kinda don't want to betray him, but then I'm betraying most of the party, so I'm not sure what's worse.

I think the correct way would be to do the following: Assuming the Awful Good character is capable of being dealt with, you should side with him and get the magic sword, at which point it's 2v2 (You and Awful vs. The two cultists). This leads to two scenarios:

The first one is you two loosing, in which case you speak your last words with your last dying breath.
The second one is you two winning, in which case you let the Awful Good character take the most damage. After the fight, you tell him to not resist as you heal him. Surprise, the scroll of heal was actually a Flesh to Stone spell. As he slowly turns into a statue, you look him straight into his eyes and speak your last words.

What those last words are? Why, "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur" of course^^

If you side with the cultists instead, just manipulate the ritual via forgery check to summon Hastur.

...What do you mean you don't wanna summon Hastur?

[-D-]

@Name1: Needs more Hastur. Sadly, this world doesn't have real Hastur.

[Triskavanski]

Something to think of is Anti-magic ray from the dragonnomicon or dragon magic.. It shuts off SU and prevents spellcasting while making you practically immune to magic. Your equipment still works, and you can still UMD things to 'cast' spells but you can walk right on through a wall of force with no problem.

[Sandsarecool]

They are evil ?
If they have commited evil acts, local guards/lord/paladin group want to capture/kill them

Contact them and set up an ambush with them
During the ambush, one enemy spellcaster cast a charm spell on you (give them a scroll of domination)
DM ask to roll save behind screen.
Then you act like dominated and strike back at party

You + the guards/lord/paladin can take down at least some of the party members

And if party succeed, you can continue with them because they will think you were charmed and try again later

This reminds me; you haven't said anything about your campaign. If you could shed a few more details, I might be able to help you here. Under what circumstances are you betraying your party? All on your own? That seems kinda stupid to me...

[Alphabetmaster]

Here's what you do.
Wait until you're keeping watch and the other characters are asleep.
Nod to the GM and share the moment that your character kills the rest of the party and ends the campaign.
Then, since that campaign is well and truly dead, start a new campaign. In this campaign, your working with the party, instead of against it. Also, to save time, the other players can play their old characters. And, to save more time, the game can have the same setting, and the same backstory. In fact, it can begin at night, as your character keeps watch for the rest of the party.
And to save more time, the other players don't need to be told of this.
I… I’d appreciate more constructive comments, if you’d please. The passive aggressive is too much for me to handle. I get it, betraying the party is not a cool move, but I’ve committed to it now, and the DM expects me to follow through.
I can’t write this line without seeming arrogant or passive aggressive when I read it back, so I’ll forget it.

All of these are giant red flags that read as "Special DM Treatment" to me.
): You have a point. I can’t defend myself here.

Your character - and you griffin - had "illegal" class levels, thus necessitating a rebuild for this world / campaign. And, because you didn't have time to properly rebuild the character, you're allowed to rebuild right before the final confrontation. But, for consistency, you want your abilities to match up with what you have thus far done. Gotcha.

And the 40k gp... You are going to have the opportunity to spend it before your final betrayal? Otherwise, I'd suggest just dropping it on the party from great heights as a fairly lethal tactic.
I have one last opportunity to spend it before we go all in. That equates to two weeks IRL (problems with other commitments with our group), or a few months in game.
How am I going to get the money up there, let alone find a way to have it all drop at the same time? Bag of holding is awesome, but…


Something to think of is Anti-magic ray from the dragonnomicon or dragon magic.. It shuts off SU and prevents spellcasting while making you practically immune to magic. Your equipment still works, and you can still UMD things to 'cast' spells but you can walk right on through a wall of force with no problem.
I don't even want to try and get these things to fly anymore. I'm not going to ask my DM for this. Thanks anyway, though.

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about an artificer? Good with wands, can use wands of hunter's eye to get SA, and use minor schemas to cover some buffs. No need to craft anything: have a look at Forrestfire's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427628-Disregard-Money-Acquire-Buff-Spells-Artificers-without-the-Artifice).

Your griffon can be anything core, at that point, so I'd suggest something tough-ish, like paladin 2/fighter 2/ranger 1, or possibly druid 5 (1/day wildshape, animal companion, and third-level spells, very nice).


Edit: I would like to point out that any implementation of a scenario like this is going to have a 'DM favourite', because, generally speaking, it's not viable to have a secret single traitor who is managed by multiple players. By which I mean: stop hating on the scenario. This is what's being played, and the DM has implemented it so that the traitor has a fighting chance, by giving them advantages in surprise and action economy (through a griffin). That's what we're here to optimize. If anything, any advice against the scenario should be in a footnote, somewhere, not in the meat of your post.

[Alphabetmaster]

This reminds me; you haven't said anything about your campaign. If you could shed a few more details, I might be able to help you here. Under what circumstances are you betraying your party? All on your own? That seems kinda stupid to me...

The party is currently being employed by an evil dude. Evil dude is raising army to start a crusade to destroy good aligned towns in the country. Party joins evil army to do evil things. Evil army is en route to spiritual capital city, which has important MacGuffin artifact providing protection to the walls. Party will be sent in (during our next session, NOT META Stop the hate...) to infiltrate the city, steal MacGuffin, disable protective wards, let army invade.

I've alerted the Paladins there of the basic premise of the plan, but DM is too busy IRL to give me anything solid about what they've done in response. I assumed that I just haven't received any word, though I do have a basic floor plan of the city sewers (as does everybody else). We're sneaking in that way, using a ship we intend to commandeer at a nearby port, using a scroll of submerge ship to not get noticed. It's a small ship, and the party has insiders who'll let them into the sewer system.

[Arbane]

If you're playing (or pretending to play) a Rogue-type, you have a LOT of opportunities to mess with the party. Let's use your Roguely Powers of Annoyance for Good!

First of all there's the classic Rogue Move of keeping all the most useful/dangerous loot for yourself.
Secondly, there's searching for traps... and 'missing' one or two for the party to blunder into. Or 'accidentally' setting off alarms. (Don't do this too often - evil characters will have no trouble using your corpse as a trap-detector.)
Thirdly, 'scouting ahead'... and warning any defending good guys so they can prep/flee.
Fourthly, the ever-loathed 'whacky rogue who steals from the party' schtick... only plant your ill-gotten gains on whichever other party member might have swiped it.
Fifth. as mentioned before, split the party! If you can get Fly or Spider Climb or similar, the rest of the team may have trouble following you, giving you a chance to get whoever can in serious trouble.

Also, talk - evil teams are notorious for collapsing into backstabbery for stupid reasons even without a ringer in their ranks. Maybe you can claim some minor doo-dad is the One Ring*, and watch the rest of the team shank each other over it?

* Or the Head of Vecna (http://www.blindpanic.com/humor/vecna.htm)....

[Quertus]

How am I going to get the money up there, let alone find a way to have it all drop at the same time? Bag of holding is awesome, but…


... With the griffin? <checks books> ok, fine, a light load for an 18 str large creature is only 200 lbs. So I guess it depends on just how much you've really tricked it out.

Hmmm... "in the sewers" doesn't sound like a good place to utilize a griffin.

[Fizban]

I… I’d appreciate more constructive comments, if you’d please. The passive aggressive is too much for me to handle. I get it, betraying the party is not a cool move, but I’ve committed to it now, and the DM expects me to follow through.
As you said, it's an evil game and the players have been expecting someone to backstab the party for some time now. The fact that you're doing it in the name of good is just icing on the cake. Also, what ExLibrisMortis said: the secret traitor is by definition going to have some level of favoritism, unless everyone is a traitor at which point the "secret" designation doesn't really apply.

One problem to consider is the healbot: against a single foe a healbot practically guarantees victory.

The dirty method of fighting would be essentially what I pulled on my own party after one of the players left and I NPC'd the character to attack them: you've got a ton of money and presumably detailed information on how they fight. Just buy the exact items needed to crush them and then do so. Merely half of that cash is enough to buy a fully charged wand of Enervation: unless the Cleric already has Death Ward up, it's likely to nuke all their 4th level spells including any preparations of Death Ward, trivialize them in two shots and likely kill them in 3.

Or slightly less brutal, just a bunch of other items. If the Wizard likes Fireball, wear an Enduring Amulet for cheap repeatable resistance, or an Amulet of Tears and a Cloak of Elemental Protection for a broader pair. A Ring of Silent Spells for swift action Silence to mess with the casters (but only if your own items are metnal activation or it won't otherwise mess you up). Have someone cast a Stalwart Pact and Renewal Pact on you for longevity and automatic status removal. Activate your Scout's Headband early under false pretenses so they can't turn invisible to escape. Use a scroll of Blacklight to hide yourself if needed, or pin someone/cover yourself in a corner with a Ring of the Forecewall. Icy Strand for no-save damage and grease+blinding (Ice Storm and Sleet Storm). Blurred armor or drop a quick bottle of Liquid Smoke (dropping is a free action!) to block sneak attack. You've seen them in combat, you can figure out how to counter them with a massive pile of cash.

As for the build, since all you've used are wands and "sneak attack" you can really do whatever you want. The given build, straight Rogue, Warlock or Artificer if you want to focus on UMD, a Cleric w/Magic domain dip can activate all the wands (not so much scrolls), Unseen Seer, Chameleon, Factotum, pretty much anything. You're exactly the right level for Cunning Surge, which even without Font of Inspiration is still basically cheating when you've got straight cash to substitute for actual offensive abilities. A surprise round followed by winning initiative (wands of Sign, Nerveskitter) with Cunning Surge is three shots of Enervation, enough to annihilate the cleric while your griffon pounces on the wizard for skirmish damage, then drop some Liquid Smoke so the rogue can't sneak you. Next round Enervate the fighter, he should be halfway to useless, griffon charges whichever is available, drop another smoke. Round three, clean up.

[bookkeeping guy]

First off, there are some huge problems here. People don't like when you destroy their sand castle on the beach when your sand castle is next to theirs. Get it?

Also one time when I was a kid playing transformers with my friend and I tried a similar thing where I was going to save my friend's character from being kidnapped by Megatron. It never got that far. He freaked out and we had a fight. And just because we were 10 at the time doesn't mean your older people won't have the same thing.

Guaranteed this will cause bad feeling. it only hasn't so far because no one's character has been killed. But make no mistake when their sand castle is taken out that will happen.

So here's a couple of funny things you could slip in to mess with your DM who is royally trying to get you guys to fight and probably a narcissist...


What if you find out you are the half sibling of one of the other characters....****. you can't fight now. Dear old dad would have a heart attack.

You accidentally slip a few helms of opposite alignment on the evil characters that were illusion spelled to look like the best armor they could ever find in the whole world.

You realize your sister is COLLECTING child support from two of the players...and she has one leg and is disabled. She's royally ****ed and will starve if you kill your friends...literally.

There...now you have some good reasons to overthrow the DMs plan to make you guys tear each other up and fight. XD

Actually you could combine at least two of those above...child support particularly is totally going to happen to one of them anyway in real life so this will shape them up into not putting their pencils into the wrong meat grinders. XD

[White Blade]

They're kinda expecting it. It's been hinted at for ages, and well, it's a crazy CE party. It's all just a game of who backstabs the other first, even before I joined. That principle expands to every game we play together.

Don't even get me started on the WarhammerTM campaign...

Oh and no 'special treatment' per say. I've had to do all the dirty work myself, and the DM has allowed Scout in advance. It just so happens that nobody's looked at it.

Besides, it's two vs six + 2. What could possibly go wrong? :smalltongue:

But you have a point. I'll keep off the Bo9S for this one.

Alright. If you're just That Group, then the advice should be straightforward ish. Your magebred Griffon with INT 18 should obviously be some INT based class - Factotum 5 or Wizard 5 or Beguiler 5. Factotum 5 will get you some minor spells, class skill UMD, intimidate + Imperious Command (since your mount has a move of 80 ft. this is not to be neglected), and the necessary bonuses to be able to stealth your Griffon against your teammates as well as the ability to burn Inspiration points. Wizard... I mean, its Wizard. You have a strong INT bonus, why not? Beguiler will get you lots of what Factotum will get you, except the +4 persistent skill bonuses to all your DEX/STR stuff to compensate for your size in stealth. Compensates with Invisibility. Swashbuckler 3 might be worth grabbing, adding a +4 to each of your five attacks on Pounce especially if the Magebred Griffon went in on Strength. Then a couple of levels of Warblade, probably, if you go that route.

Of course, raw damage shenagins on Charge dictate that your mount go Black Blood Cultist, but since you're Good aligned, that might be out. If you can do that, though, the build would be something like Swashbuckler 3/Bear Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Black Blood Cultist 1. Raging, you'd deal minimum of 13 damage on your three primary attacks and minimum of 9 damage on your four secondary ones and you'd have improved grab on a pounce monstrosity. (With Multi-Attack, the majority of these attacks would hit a decently armored level 8 character) Of course, you have to blow a couple of feats to get into Black Blood Cultist. If you want, you could also drop the Swashbuckler and go Bear Spirit Totem 2/Black Blood Cultist 3 which would net you 2 rages per day, improved Grapple, and a bonus minor attack (but it will cost you 4 damage on each attack).