Cantrip as a Bonus Action

[DonElektro]

Hello, in Player's Handbood (p.202) under the "Bonus Action" says "A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
So, can someone for example use as an Action the cantrip Chill Touch and as a Bonus Action the same cantrip or something else like Eldritch Blast or Poison Spray?

[Shaofoo]

Only if you are a Sorcerer that has the Quicken Metamagic applied to the other cantrips.

But yes order does not matter in how you cast the spells and I do believe there was official communication that says that casting anything but a cantrip as an action locks you out of casting bonus action spells for the turn.

[Sianthus]

Only if you are a Sorcerer that has the Quicken Metamagic applied to the other cantrips.

But yes order does not matter in how you cast the spells and I do believe there was official communication that says that casting anything but a cantrip as an action locks you out of casting bonus action spells for the turn.

This is correct. One exception is if the cantrip X has a bonus action casting duration, so you can cast X twice: once with your bonus action, and another with your action. Sadly, I'm AFB right now so I can't think of any right now.

EDIT: This is wrong, ignore this post :)

[Inglorin]

This is correct. One exception is if the cantrip X has a bonus action casting duration, so you can cast X twice: once with your bonus action, and another with your action. Sadly, I'm AFB right now so I can't think of any right now.

I don't think you can use a normal action to do something declared as a bonus action. This wouldn't work RAW. There is no action substitution in 5E.

[DivisibleByZero]

I don't think you can use a normal action to do something declared as a bonus action. This wouldn't work RAW. There is no action substitution in 5E.

This is correct, and the previous post is incorrect.
The are no exceptions.
You have only one bonus action. If you have multiple ways to use bonus actions, you must choose one and only one.
Anything else is an houserule. Houserules are fine, but don't quantify them as exceptions without noting that they are houserules.

[CaptainSarathai]

So, can someone for example use as an Action the cantrip Chill Touch and as a Bonus Action the same cantrip or something else like Eldritch Blast or Poison Spray?


Only if you are a Sorcerer that has the Quicken Metamagic applied to the other cantrips.

Nah, there are Bonus Action spells. Hex is such a spell. You can throw Hex at Lv1+ as a Bonus Action, and still throw Eldritch Blast (1 Action) in the same turn.
If you have Quicken Spell from Sorcerer you could double a cantrip, but no other spell. The full action spell must be a Cantrip.
So you could cast Eldritch Blast twice, or cast Eldritch Blast and then Quicken Cure Wounds. But you could not cast Cure Wounds and then Quicken Eldritch Blast.


This is correct. One exception is if the cantrip X has a bonus action casting duration, so you can cast X twice: once with your bonus action, and another with your action. Sadly, I'm AFB right now so I can't think of any right now.
Nope. If a spell says Bonus Action, you must cast it as a bonus action.

[Tanarii]

Nah, there are Bonus Action spells.
There are also bonus action cantrips.

But the OPs question strongly implies he thinks you always have a bonus action to use, and you can at any time choose to use it to cast a second cantrip. So the clarification that is not the case is important.

[Shaofoo]

Nah, there are Bonus Action spells. Hex is such a spell. You can throw Hex at Lv1+ as a Bonus Action, and still throw Eldritch Blast (1 Action) in the same turn.
If you have Quicken Spell from Sorcerer you could double a cantrip, but no other spell. The full action spell must be a Cantrip.
So you could cast Eldritch Blast twice, or cast Eldritch Blast and then Quicken Cure Wounds. But you could not cast Cure Wounds and then Quicken Eldritch Blast.


I was just going by the example that you can somehow cast Eldritch Blast or Poison Spray as a bonus action which you can only do if you are a Sorcerer (and in EB's case if you can somehow find a way to learn EB such as Magic Initiate or MC Warlock).

And to add to your example even though others have chimed in, if you were to use your Bonus action in another way (such as say Quick Hands or TWF) you won't be able to cast any Bonus Action spells even if you still have your action.

[Arial Black]

There are also bonus action cantrips.

Really? Please list them; it would be usefull.

Or even just name one. One cantrip with a casting time of a bonus action.

[Blue Lantern]

Really? Please list them; it would be usefull.

Or even just name one. One cantrip with a casting time of a bonus action.

Shillelagh, I think is the only one.

[CaptainSarathai]

There are also bonus action cantrips.

But the OPs question strongly implies he thinks you always have a bonus action to use, and you can at any time choose to use it to cast a second cantrip. So the clarification that is not the case is important.

Wait, huh? I don't think I understood you there.
You do always have a Bonus Action. Per turn you have:
Move, Action, Bonus Action, Reaction

If you have any spell or ability using the action, or something triggers it, you can use your Bonus and Reaction. They're always there, you just don't always have something to slot into them. If you have a Cantrip with "Casting Time: Bonus Action," you can cast it every turn as long as you don't use your Bonus for something else like Polearm Master or Offhand attacks.

[Maxilian]

Really? Please list them; it would be usefull.

Or even just name one. One cantrip with a casting time of a bonus action.

Shillelagh and Magic Stone

[Shaofoo]

Wait, huh? I don't think I understood you there.
You do always have a Bonus Action. Per turn you have:
Move, Action, Bonus Action, Reaction

If you have any spell or ability using the action, or something triggers it, you can use your Bonus and Reaction. They're always there, you just don't always have something to slot into them. If you have a Cantrip with "Casting Time: Bonus Action," you can cast it every turn as long as you don't use your Bonus for something else like Polearm Master or Offhand attacks.

Actually you don't always have a Bonus Action.

P.189

Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you
take an additional action on your turn called a bonus
action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows
a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus
action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature
of the game states that you can do som ething as a bonus
action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take

Unless you have something that says that you need a Bonus Action to use then you don't have a Bonus Action, it might be redundant but probably so that any "improvised moves" actually take an action and not a bonus action or say that you can do two item interactions because you have a Bonus Action to spend or the like.

This is different from the Incapacitated conditions that says you can't take Actions or reactions, you still technically have them but can't use them. If you can't ever use a Bonus Action you will never get one or rather you will get one when you actually try to use an ability that specifically calls out for one.

[gkathellar]

Shaofoo has the right of it. By RAW, the OP's idea would work, save that you can only do something as a bonus action if you are specifically allowed to do so.

Simply put, during your turn, you can:

Take one action
Move
Use one character option or ability performed as a Bonus Action
Use any number of character options or abilities specifically performed as free actions


Without a character option or ability to cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't do that.

[Dalebert]

Wait, huh? I don't think I understood you there.
You do always have a Bonus Action. Per turn you have:
Move, Action, Bonus Action, Reaction

If you have any spell or ability using the action, or something triggers it, you can use your Bonus and Reaction. They're always there, you just don't always have something to slot into them. If you have a Cantrip with "Casting Time: Bonus Action," you can cast it every turn as long as you don't use your Bonus for something else like Polearm Master or Offhand attacks.

You're generally right. However, as was pointed out already, if you ever cast a spell with your bonus action, e.g. Hex, Shillelagh, Magic Stones, then you can't cast a spell of 1st level or higher with your action. You could do practically anything else with your action including cast a cantrip. Similarly, if you cast a 1st level or higher spell with your action, you can no longer use your bonus action to cast any spell at all due to that same rule.

[Tanarii]

Lol love forums, where everyone else can cover my ass on statements I've made.


Wait, huh? I don't think I understood you there.Others have already covered that you don't actually have a bonus action until you do something that gives you one. That said, it's ultimately not a very important rule that I've ever found, and besides that wasn't the main point of what I was saying.

The main point of what I was saying was supposed to be that you can't just use a regular action cantrip in your bonus action 'slot' to cast a second cantrip every round. The OP seemed to me to be implying that you could. I clearly didn't communicate that point clearly.

[Ruslan]

Here are two handy flowcharts:

1. I want to use my Bonus Action to cast a spell.
2. Did you already cast any spell this turn, with the exception of a cantrip with a casting time of "1 Action"? If YES, go to 3. If NO, go to 4.
3. Sorry, you can't use your Bonus Action to cast a spell.
4. Sure, you can use your Bonus Action to cast a spell.


1. I want to use my Action to cast a spell which is not a cantrip.
2. Did you already cast a spell with your Bonus Action this turn? If YES, go to 3. If NO, go to 4.
3. Sorry, you can't use your Action to cast a spell which is not a cantrip.
4. Sure, you can use your Action to cast a spell which is not a cantrip.

[Sianthus]

I don't think you can use a normal action to do something declared as a bonus action. This wouldn't work RAW. There is no action substitution in 5E.

Yep I'm mistaken. I'll edit my previous post to reflect that. This is a silly rule imo though.

[gkathellar]

Yep I'm mistaken. I'll edit my previous post to reflect that. This is a silly rule imo though.

It's a CYA rule. If a developer can say, "okay, players are only going to be able to use this 1/round because it's a bonus action," that's one fewer thing to worry about when designing abilities and rules.

[Maxilian]

You're generally right. However, as was pointed out already, if you ever cast a spell with your bonus action, e.g. Hex, Shillelagh, Magic Stones, then you can't cast a spell of 1st level or higher with your action. You could do practically anything else with your action including cast a cantrip. Similarly, if you cast a 1st level or higher spell with your action, you can no longer use your bonus action to cast any spell at all due to that same rule.

This is not completely true, it only applys as long as the bonus action spell was a 1st lvl spell of highter (Would work with Hex as you say, but not with Shillelagh or Magic Stone)

[Shaofoo]

This is not completely true, it only applys as long as the bonus action spell was a 1st lvl spell of highter (Would work with Hex as you say, but not with Shillelagh or Magic Stone)

The rules don't say that

A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You
must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell,
provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action
this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same
turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

A cantrip is a spell and still follows all the rules. Casting Magic Stone will prevent you from casting any spell that is not a cantrip, there is no distinction between cantrip and leveled spell.

[Maxilian]

The rules don't say that

A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You
must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell,
provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action
this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same
turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

A cantrip is a spell and still follows all the rules. Casting Magic Stone will prevent you from casting any spell that is not a cantrip, there is no distinction between cantrip and leveled spell.

The problem with this reading is that it means that i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then a cantrip, but not viceversa (and that's weird) also... noting what most people said above, i should be able to.

Note: also... i think what you said only apply to bonus action (I can't cast a 1st lvl spell as a bonus action if i casted already something else, but i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then use my bonus action to cast a cantrip)

Note2: my first note is only based on what you posted (the bolded part)

[Shaofoo]

The problem with this reading is that it means that i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then a cantrip, but not viceversa (and that's weird) also... noting what most people said above, i should be able to.

Note: also... i think what you said only apply to bonus action (I can't cast a 1st lvl spell as a bonus action if i casted already something else, but i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then use my bonus action to cast a cantrip)

Note2: my first note is only based on what you posted (the bolded part)

It has been clarified that the rule is supposed to go both ways.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/24/can-you-cast-an-action-spell-then-a-bonus-action-spell/

"it's not a sequencing thing - the rule reverses itself, too (can't cast bonus action after casting as action)"

(inb4 Mearls is subhuman scum)

RAI if you cast a 1st level or higher spell as an action you are locked out of bonus action spells.

I have posted this previously in this same topic.

[tieren]

It has been clarified that the rule is supposed to go both ways.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/24/can-you-cast-an-action-spell-then-a-bonus-action-spell/

"it's not a sequencing thing - the rule reverses itself, too (can't cast bonus action after casting as action)"

(inb4 Mearls is subhuman scum)

RAI if you cast a 1st level or higher spell as an action you are locked out of bonus action spells.

I have posted this previously in this same topic.

Beauty is the restriction is tied directly to the use of the bonus action casting a spell, if you don't use the bonus action for that you can still cast two of any spell using an Action Surge.

[Ruslan]

Beauty is the restriction is tied directly to the use of the bonus action casting a spell, if you don't use the bonus action for that you can still cast two of any spell using an Action Surge.

Which is why you see all the spellcasters at the gym and racquetball court, desperately trying to raise their Str or Dex to 13, so they can take a couple of Fighter levels. Books smarts will only get you this far; casting two Fireballs in one round takes muscles.

[MeeposFire]

The problem with this reading is that it means that i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then a cantrip, but not viceversa (and that's weird) also... noting what most people said above, i should be able to.

Note: also... i think what you said only apply to bonus action (I can't cast a 1st lvl spell as a bonus action if i casted already something else, but i could cast a 1st lvl spell and then use my bonus action to cast a cantrip)

Note2: my first note is only based on what you posted (the bolded part)

Yes it is weird but it is true. If you cast shillelagh (bonus action cantrip) you cannot cast fireball but you could cast healing word (bonus action spell) and firebolt. That is the strangeness that is RAW.

Also note that casting a bonus action spell prevents the use of reaction spells on your turn (for instance you move away from an enemy and he makes an opportunity attack you could not cast shield if you had already cast a bonus action spell even if it was a cantrip bonus action spell).

Other weirdness includes that you can use action surge to cast two fireballs in one turn but if you cast any bonus action spell then both your action AND action surge have to be cantrips.

That is why in my games I have a houserule where essentially in any turn you cast a bonus action spell at least one of the spells cast that turn must be a cantrip. I feel this actually obtains what the rule wants to do without what I at least think are unintended consequences.

[Asmotherion]

There are only 2 ways to make this work. One is the Sorcerer, who can use Quicken spell on a spell with a casting time of one action to change the time to one bonus action.

The other is becoming a Litch... Which might work if you work with your DM to figure out how (and if your DM is willing to allow it...) That said, this is not happening before level 20. (It is however a suggested epic path for the Wizard in the DMG). It's also not literally a cantrip as a bonus action, rather than a Legendary Action, breaking initiative (Witch is even better actually).

Finally, the intention behind the rules is that, if you use a bonus action spell (for example misty step) you can only use a cantrip afterwards, not an other spell using a spell slot.