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Fixer
2007-07-10, 12:08 PM
Secure Shelter
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M, F; see text
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 20-ft.-square structure
Duration: 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You conjure a sturdy cottage or lodge made of material that is common in the area where the spell is cast. The floor is level, clean, and dry. In all respects the lodging resembles a normal cottage, with a sturdy door, two shuttered windows, and a small fireplace.
The shelter has no heating or cooling source (other than natural insulation qualities). Therefore, it must be heated as a normal dwelling, and extreme heat adversely affects it and its occupants. The dwelling does, however, provide considerable security otherwise—it is as strong as a normal stone building, regardless of its material composition. The dwelling resists flames and fire as if it were stone. It is impervious to normal missiles (but not the sort cast by siege engines or giants).
The door, shutters, and even chimney are secure against intrusion, the former two being arcane locked and the latter secured by an iron grate at the top and a narrow flue. In addition, these three areas are protected by an alarm spell. Finally, an unseen servant is conjured to provide service to you for the duration of the shelter.
The secure shelter contains rude furnishings —eight bunks, a trestle table, eight stools, and a writing desk.
Material Component: A square chip of stone, crushed lime, a few grains of sand, a sprinkling of water, and several splinters of wood. These must be augmented by the components of the unseen servant spell (string and a bit of wood) if this benefit is to be included.
Focus: The focus of the alarm spell (silver wire and a tiny bell) if this benefit is to be included.
Anybody else notice that this spell can be cast within another structure using RAW?

What would be the ramifications of casting this within another structure?

Arbitrarity
2007-07-10, 12:15 PM
My name is Wonko the Sane. Welcome to the asylum.

(No cookie. It's too obvious :smallwink: )

I say, like that.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-10, 01:19 PM
Anybody else notice that this spell can be cast within another structure using RAW?

What would be the ramifications of casting this within another structure?

WotC has suggested two outcomes with spell situations like this:

1. The spell simply fails (if it is not big enough to fit the area).

2. The spell grows to awkwardly fit the dimensions of where it's being cast, but might not exceed them.


This is what I was refering to: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20070703a)

"At the DM's discretion (see below), the sheer force that a Daern's instant fortress produces when activated can damage and even destroy nearby objects, such as walls, buildings, bridges, and the like. Just set it near the object, utter the command word, and stand back!

Daern's Instant Fortress -- For the DM

This magic item is great for NPCs to hole up within when facing the PCs, since it lets them create their own incredibly difficult defensive location from which to cause mayhem and confound the players.

The Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't specify what happens if you try to activate a Daern's instant fortress in an area that is too small. Thus, you'll need to decide on one of two possibilities. First, the magic item fails to activate at all. Second, the fortress deals the damage described to any nearby objects. If the damage is sufficient to destroy the object, say an overhanging bridge, then the instant fortress achieves maximum height and width. Otherwise, it expands only as far as possible and then stops."


The Shelter spell is similar to the Instant Fortress, but some might argue against this interpretation. I can't find anything else in FAQs that provides a better answer though.

Jasdoif
2007-07-10, 01:26 PM
What would be the ramifications of casting this within another structure?You mean, say, casting it inside a larger building? It'd make its 20-ft-square structure there as long as it will fit the dimensions, same as always.

Could make for an interesting type of "nomadic" group...they carry around a huge, circus-size tent; and when they stop for whatever reason, they set up the tent, then fill the area under it with castings of Secure Shelter.




The Shelter spell is similar to the Instant Fortress, but some might argue against this interpretation.Yeah, it doesn't work the same way since Secure Shelter is a spell.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-10, 01:38 PM
Yeah, it doesn't work the same way since Secure Shelter is a spell.

Ok, and the current interpretation is that items (even using the same spell, like in this example the Fortress being made with the Magnificent Mansion spell) are completely different then that spell for restrictions like this right?

Jasdoif
2007-07-10, 01:45 PM
Ok, and the current interpretation is that items (even using the same spell, like in this example the Fortress being made with the Magnificent Mansion spell) are completely different then that spell for restrictions like this right?Well, Instant Fortress says it grows into its full size. The tower itself already exists, just in a much smaller size, so it's far more like enlarge person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) then a conjuration effect, so the restriction on conjuration effects doesn't apply.

Now, if the item caused a full-sized tower to just pop into existence, then it would be subject to the same restrictions.

Khosan
2007-07-10, 01:47 PM
My name is Wonko the Sane. Welcome to the asylum.

(No cookie. It's too obvious :smallwink: )

I say, like that.

It's Lonk the Sane, isn't it?

Curse yous and your devious ways, Irenicus.

Edits are becoming a habit of mine. Need to add actual input.

I'd be amused if you could use this offensively, plop down a house in a narrow corridor, surrounded by enemies. Crush them to death when it expands.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-10, 01:49 PM
Nope, it's Wonko. Since I don't recall your reference, you probably have it wrong.

EDIT: Nope, it's not :smallbiggrin:

Khosan
2007-07-10, 01:51 PM
I thought it was a BG2 reference. Lonk the Sane was the name of the Dwarven guard of Spellhold.

Edit: The names hold a remarkable similarity.

Fixer
2007-07-10, 02:04 PM
This is a conjuration effect. It is, after all, a conjuration (creation) spell. According to the rules for Conjuration spells (which Jasdoif quoted for us) you cannot conjure something in a space that cannot contain it. Ok, problem solved. Thanks everyone for your help.

Lapak
2007-07-10, 02:19 PM
Nope, it's Wonko. Since I don't recall your reference, you probably have it wrong.

EDIT: Nope, it's not :smallbiggrin:I'd assume that Lonk is a direct reference to Wonko, who significantly predates BG2.