Protecting yourself against a deity

[flappeercraft]

So right now due to plot purposes the BBEG in my campaign is really close to having the power of a Lesser God without any divine ranks and the PC's have a couple intermediate gods on their side. One of which has the Life and Death ability. So in the description of that ability it says that to kill a Mortal it works as a Destruction spell without Material components or Save but Destruction has SR. Would a Greater Spell Immunity spell protect him from the ability if the spell chosen is Destruction? Also is there a way to protect the BBEG from other godly abilities and powers?

[arrowed]

In general, the only thing that seems to be effective against divine powers are: the divine powers of a tougher god, or certain Elder Evils with their whole divine anathema thing. I don't know a single mortal spell or ability that can actually impede those divine abilities, although Sigil in the Outlands is meant to be off limits to gods and you could always homebrew a macguffin artefact.

[Inevitability]

In general, the only thing that seems to be effective against divine powers are: the divine powers of a tougher god, or certain Elder Evils with their whole divine anathema thing. I don't know a single mortal spell or ability that can actually impede those divine abilities, although Sigil in the Outlands is meant to be off limits to gods and you could always homebrew a macguffin artefact.

Vecna-Blooded can help, as it makes even gods forget about you. Don't do anything to trigger their Portfolio Sense (be undead?) and they shouldn't be able to target you.

[Flickerdart]

Also is there a way to protect the BBEG from other godly abilities and powers?

Get another god on his side. Deities don't tend to mess about with mortals as long as there's another deity to say "knock it off or I'll start doing the same stuff to your priests."

[bekeleven]

Vecna-Blooded can help, as it makes even gods forget about you.I think Vecna-Blooded counts as "divine abilities of a tougher god." Well, not necessarily tougher.


Sigil in the Outlands is meant to be off limits to gods
Find a tree in sigil, Acorn of Far Travel?

[Name1]

So right now due to plot purposes the BBEG in my campaign is really close to having the power of a Lesser God without any divine ranks and the PC's have a couple intermediate gods on their side. One of which has the Life and Death ability. So in the description of that ability it says that to kill a Mortal it works as a Destruction spell without Material components or Save but Destruction has SR. Would a Greater Spell Immunity spell protect him from the ability if the spell chosen is Destruction? Also is there a way to protect the BBEG from other godly abilities and powers?

Divine abilities don't allow SR. If you're calling bull****, I'd say you are right: Deities and Demigods is so horrifically bad that it gives Serpent Kingdoms (and the Book of Vile Darkness) a run for it's money. Really, you should just give him a Divine Rank: Even a Divine Rank of 0 greatly increases his chances for survival (since he is no mortal at that point) and he can get it in a few ways (the 3.5 update from Deities and Demigods offers the Einherjar template in a well-intentioned if not 100% working attempt to get the book to work and there is the Dragon Ascendant class). Really, this calls for Fusion + Astral Seed shenanigans on side of the BBEG. I'd say blatant RAW-abuse is what a DM deserves for using that book in the first place, but since you seem to be the DM and the BBEG is the one with the problem... Just slap a Divine Rank of 0 on your BBEG.


In general, the only thing that seems to be effective against divine powers are: the divine powers of a tougher god, or certain Elder Evils with their whole divine anathema thing. I don't know a single mortal spell or ability that can actually impede those divine abilities, although Sigil in the Outlands is meant to be off limits to gods and you could always homebrew a macguffin artefact.

Actually, just not being a mortal allows you to be immune to the most destructive (IC and OoC) divine abilities and I'm fairly sure the Divine Anathema specifically doesn't protect against Divine Abilities (which is a fail on every concievable level, but meh). You could have him go to Sigil, but... As unpopular as this opinion is (sorry in advance, fanboys), the Lady of Pain can be stalled and, if only in theory, be beaten (as can be seen in "Die Vecna Die" (one of the best adventures ever, I highly recommend it (even if you donÄt play the right edition, it's still worth a read))), not to mention that even if she's hostile, an optimized character can still rush the diplomacy check to make her fanatic. I know you ARE the DM, but this is the absolute last stop I would pull. I don't know what level you are at, but like Deities and Demigods Divine Ranks, if you include the Lady of Pain in your game, you deserve whatever munchkinnery your players can come up with.

[flappeercraft]

Divine abilities don't allow SR. If you're calling bull****, I'd say you are right: Deities and Demigods is so horrifically bad that it gives Serpent Kingdoms (and the Book of Vile Darkness) a run for it's money. Really, you should just give him a Divine Rank: Even a Divine Rank of 0 greatly increases his chances for survival (since he is no mortal at that point) and he can get it in a few ways (the 3.5 update from Deities and Demigods offers the Einherjar template in a well-intentioned if not 100% working attempt to get the book to work and there is the Dragon Ascendant class). Really, this calls for Fusion + Astral Seed shenanigans on side of the BBEG. I'd say blatant RAW-abuse is what a DM deserves for using that book in the first place, but since you seem to be the DM and the BBEG is the one with the problem... Just slap a Divine Rank of 0 on your BBEG.



Actually, just not being a mortal allows you to be immune to the most destructive (IC and OoC) divine abilities and I'm fairly sure the Divine Anathema specifically doesn't protect against Divine Abilities (which is a fail on every concievable level, but meh). You could have him go to Sigil, but... As unpopular as this opinion is (sorry in advance, fanboys), the Lady of Pain can be stalled and, if only in theory, be beaten (as can be seen in "Die Vecna Die" (one of the best adventures ever, I highly recommend it (even if you donÄt play the right edition, it's still worth a read))), not to mention that even if she's hostile, an optimized character can still rush the diplomacy check to make her fanatic. I know you ARE the DM, but this is the absolute last stop I would pull. I don't know what level you are at, but like Deities and Demigods Divine Ranks, if you include the Lady of Pain in your game, you deserve whatever munchkinnery your players can come up with.

Problem is, I am NOT the DM, this BBEG is like a last adventure for the characters 20-24 level against a pretty optimized character who is the BBEG which I control. It is more of a player vs player thing with a DM helping with the flow of the game and setting things and problems for both sides. This complicates things a little bit as there are 8 of them and they have help of of a greater god Nerull (I managed to out diplomacy the lesser gods on their side with lots of shenanigans and they are no longer a problem but they got nerull while I was doing so)

[Name1]

Problem is, I am NOT the DM, this BBEG is like a last adventure for the characters 20-24 level against a pretty optimized character who is the BBEG which I control. It is more of a player vs player thing with a DM helping with the flow of the game and setting things and problems for both sides. This complicates things a little bit as there are 8 of them and they have help of of a greater god Nerull (I managed to out diplomacy the lesser gods on their side with lots of shenanigans and they are no longer a problem but they got nerull while I was doing so)

Ah... yeah, then go with Fusion + Astral Seed. The Einherjar, the Asgardian Gigants and Dragon Ascendants are DR 0 deities you could assimilate that way. Heck, if you have a deity that can give you a rank, that would be enough. While you can't permanently dispose of a greater deity (or at least not in a way I can think of right now), you can still Mailman him (he auto-saves against everything, so SoDs won't work) and kill the party before he comes back. And when I say kill, I mean necrotic terminate, because that's the only thing deities can't just undo.

[remetagross]

Arguably, the violet rain evil weather (BoVD) can provide with such a protection. It does not specifically states that it prevents deities from acting in the targeted area, but it "severs all connections to divine agencies", including the suppression of all ongoing divine spells. With a bit of DM's fiat, the violet rain could also prevent deities from using salient abilities directed at a target who is under a violet rain. To summon such a weather, you have the Evil Weather spell (still from the BoVD). It is pretty limited, however: 1 hour casting time, 3d6 minutes duration, 10 000gp's worth of amethystes as a costly component, 200 XP, and 3d6 Con damage to boot. But! It has a range or "Personal". So, as an evil BBEG, you simply find out an evil Divine Metamagicking 15th level cleric with the Corrupt domain, provide him with amethysts, Restauration (though he can probably cast it himself) for the Con damage, or whatever he wants, and bam! Scroll of 24 hours long Persistent Violet Rain. Get a bunch of those for when you want to do something your allied deities can't prevent Nerull from interfering with.

If you have the money, you could perpetually hire said cleric so that each day, he casts again the Persistent Evil Weather.

[Kelb_Panthera]

To make this perfectly clear: if a god with the life and death DSA decides you're dead, the only thing that can stop it is another deity's area divine shield. Even a higher rank deity can't block it without that ability, though they can reverse the effect with gift of life or life and death.

[bekeleven]

And when I say kill, I mean necrotic terminate, because that's the only thing deities can't just undo.

There are more ways, such as using their souls as a crafting component. I made a guide. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?419197)

[remetagross]

To make this perfectly clear: if a god with the life and death DSA decides you're dead, the only thing that can stop it is another deity's area divine shield. Even a higher rank deity can't block it without that ability, though they can reverse the effect with gift of life or life and death.

Well, as I said this whole Violet Rain thing is subject to DM's fiat, so the DM could judge either way. Besides, even if this SDA is ruled to work through the rain by the DM, the climate can still protect the BBEG from many other, less powerful SDAs or ways for a god to infringe on the Material Plane.

[Inevitability]

To make this perfectly clear: if a god with the life and death DSA decides you're dead, the only thing that can stop it is another deity's area divine shield. Even a higher rank deity can't block it without that ability, though they can reverse the effect with gift of life or life and death.

Am I the only one imagining two deities repeatedly killing and raising a random mortal in some kind of divine tug-of-war?

[flappeercraft]

Ah... yeah, then go with Fusion + Astral Seed. The Einherjar, the Asgardian Gigants and Dragon Ascendants are DR 0 deities you could assimilate that way. Heck, if you have a deity that can give you a rank, that would be enough. While you can't permanently dispose of a greater deity (or at least not in a way I can think of right now), you can still Mailman him (he auto-saves against everything, so SoDs won't work) and kill the party before he comes back. And when I say kill, I mean necrotic terminate, because that's the only thing deities can't just undo.

I did do the fusion + astral seed, that is how I got the power to fight 8 PC's, I fused with a Chronotyrin, Gloom and a Troll, Crystalline. But what I am worried about is the Life and Death abilities from the deities as that can kill me while most things from the PC's can't a I am immune to damage, have a continuous effect of mystic shield, continuous effect of veil of undeath, etc.

[Name1]

I did do the fusion + astral seed, that is how I got the power to fight 8 PC's, I fused with a Chronotyrin, Gloom and a Troll, Crystalline. But what I am worried about is the Life and Death abilities from the deities as that can kill me while most things from the PC's can't a I am immune to damage, have a continuous effect of mystic shield, continuous effect of veil of undeath, etc.

Then go to the plane of Ysgard and fuse with an Einherjar. This does slap the [Good] subtype on you and gives you a divine rank of 0, which makes you immune (well, untargetable/unaffected) by Life and Death and Divine Splendor. The point remains, without a divine rank of 0 or higher, you'll get annihilated. Actually...

Does your DM allow 3rd party? If he does, I might have an idea that'll get you immune easier.

[flappeercraft]

Then go to the plane of Ysgard and fuse with an Einherjar. This does slap the [Good] subtype on you and gives you a divine rank of 0, which makes you immune (well, untargetable/unaffected) by Life and Death and Divine Splendor. The point remains, without a divine rank of 0 or higher, you'll get annihilated. Actually...

Does your DM allow 3rd party? If he does, I might have an idea that'll get you immune easier.

I just might try the Einherjar and my DM generally does not allow 3rd party even if liscenced but I might convince him.

[Name1]

I just might try the Einherjar and my DM generally does not allow 3rd party even if liscenced but I might convince him.

Hmm... then the 3rd party book might not work... my idea was using Immortals Handbook: Ascension, which has an Epic Spell that gives you temporary divinity. It would take time to research and use though, so you'd probably want to visit a plane where you have sufficient time to use it.

Still, trying the Einherjar-route is probably your safest bet. My tip would be to use Trap The Soul, as a low level deity is not immune against it and clearly a strong creature from another plane, compelling it to perform a service for you (which can probably be "Fuse with me").

[gkathellar]

Find a tree in sigil, Acorn of Far Travel?

The only way to enter Sigil is by portal. Everything else fails, IIRC.

[flappeercraft]

Hmm... then the 3rd party book might not work... my idea was using Immortals Handbook: Ascension, which has an Epic Spell that gives you temporary divinity. It would take time to research and use though, so you'd probably want to visit a plane where you have sufficient time to use it.

Still, trying the Einherjar-route is probably your safest bet. My tip would be to use Trap The Soul, as a low level deity is not immune against it and clearly a strong creature from another plane, compelling it to perform a service for you (which can probably be "Fuse with me").

Would immunity to death effects work against the Life and Death ability as it replicates the effect of a Destruction spell which is a death effect. The way I get that immunity is through a continuous item of Veil of Undeath. Would it work?

[Name1]

The only way to enter Sigil is by portal. Everything else fails, IIRC.

Actually, said portal must be made by the Lady of Pain and even these doors are closed to deities. There are some ways around this (as it has already been proven that her wards are imperfect), but finding them is a quest on it's own. The idea here is to take an Acorn of Far Travel and key it to Sigil in the hope that Sigils protective effects would stop the gods influence (since you would always count as "in Sigil" for all intents and purposes. I doubt it works, since we have two accounts of deities that were in Sigil and didn't suffer a major power-down, but depending on how you interpret the Lady of Pains "improvements", it might. It's the DMs call, really (however, it is said that Life and Death penetrates all barriers, so by RAW, Sigils Wards can stop the gods from entering, but no the ability from affecting him... but yeah, DMs call).


Would immunity to death effects work against the Life and Death ability as it replicates the effect of a Destruction spell which is a death effect. The way I get that immunity is through a continuous item of Veil of Undeath. Would it work?

Life and Death bypasses all barriers save for Divine Shield. It's BS, but it's how it works. So no, it wouldn't work.

[flappeercraft]

I think Vecna-Blooded counts as "divine abilities of a tougher god." Well, not necessarily tougher.


Find a tree in sigil, Acorn of Far Travel?

I have been considering this and could I just make a magical item replicating the Acorn of far travel spell continuously? It would be easier than having to go on sigil every couple of days.

[Inevitability]

I have been considering this and could I just make a magical item replicating the Acorn of far travel spell continuously? It would be easier than having to go on sigil every couple of days.

Usually, AoFT cheese also includes some Quintessence/Unguent of Timelessness to let the acorn exist for years or even centuries.

[Crake]

I solved this problem by killing off most of the gods and replacing the pantheon instead with archdevils, demon lords, and celestial paragons. Still incredibly powerful creatures in their own right, capable of granting spells to clerics and being forces to be reckoned with, but not strong enough to just outright "nope" people and cause giant plot holes to manifest in campaigns

[elonin]

Usually, AoFT cheese also includes some Quintessence/Unguent of Timelessness to let the acorn exist for years or even centuries.

I'm curious about the use of quintessence. Wouldn't the magical effects provided by the acorn also be suppressed?