Rogue Help Crossbow user

[Nosta]

Ok so I have a Rogue I am creating, how ever I am switching out SA for Fighter Feats
My question is with All the feats I will Have how can I get the most Damage out of my cross bow
and what crossbow should i use. I plan to be like a Hit man for a Black Guild in the game i'm in
any one got any ideas on how i can make this really wicked

ECL 13
Race: Human

Stats Str 16 Dex 34 Con 18 Int 24 Wis 14 Cha 18

[Sandsarecool]

As one would expect, Rapid Reload is a must if you're going for the iterative attacks with crossbows.
Point blank Shot is meh, but is the ranged prerequisite feat. Grab Feats like Rapid shot once you have that. Other 'mundane' archery style feats include Precise shot (If you really want it) and Far shot.
Crossbow Sniper is another must; 1/2 dex to damage is quite a boost with your dex score.

From there? uh, it depends what kind of crossbow(wo?)man you want to play.

As for your crossbow, I'd take either a light or hand crossbow. More than one, of course. Give it a Quick-loading enchantment, and tack on a Gnome Crossbow Sight if A&EG is allowed.

[gorfnab]

As for your crossbow, I'd take either a light or hand crossbow. More than one, of course. Give it a Quick-loading enchantment, and tack on a Gnome Crossbow Sight if A&EG is allowed.
Otherwise if you have a willing DM, the combination of the feat Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU), Strongarm Bracers (MIC), and a +X Aptitude (ToB) Great Crossbow (RoS) is always amusing. 😉

[Darrin]

Have you considered Swift Hunter? Here's a build that uses Feat Rogue to pick up proficiency with the hand crossbow:

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 1d6
4) Feat Rogue 1. Bonus: Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU). Trade trapfinding for Poison Use or Mimic ACF.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance -> Head Endurance (Sandstorm ACF). Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and sniper's shot, ask DM to let skirmish count).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2.
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Dragonfire Strike or Darkstalker. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4

[Soranar]

ECL 13?

Get at least 1 extra arm through grafts (you can afford it at this level) the extra arm lets your reload your crossbows

rapid shot+ improved rapid shot
then go for the TWF feat tree
take the hand crossbow focus to save 1 feat on rapid reload
the crossbow sniper bonus is not reduced by TWF so you still get half your DEX to damage with each weapon

take educated at level 1 (to gain all knowledge skills)
max out knowledge nature, arcana, religion, planes, local and dungeoneering (should cover just about everything you're likely to encounter)

if you take the changeling ACF you can take 10 on social skills btw and you can get a scaling bonus to knowledge checks
at level 10, take the option to take 10 on every knowledge skill I just mentioned

now take knowledge devotion (+5 to hit and damage if your checks are high enough)

you take 10 + 17 (skill ranks) + your INT
if you take the substitution level I mentioned I think you get another +4 or 5
once you reach 36 you don't need to invest any more into this so don't go crazy

all in all you get your iteratives in your main hand
2 or 3 more attacks in your offhand
+ rapid shot

so about 6 attacks with 1d4 + half your DEX + knowledge devotion all of which works at any range

[Nosta]

Have you considered Swift Hunter? Here's a build that uses Feat Rogue to pick up proficiency with the hand crossbow:

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 1d6
4) Feat Rogue 1. Bonus: Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU). Trade trapfinding for Poison Use or Mimic ACF.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance -> Head Endurance (Sandstorm ACF). Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and sniper's shot, ask DM to let skirmish count).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2.
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Dragonfire Strike or Darkstalker. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4

oh I like :D Can you tell me what my BAB and base saves would be ?

[Fizban]

Manyshot does not work with crossbows, and you need Greater Manyshot in order to trigger multiple skirmish hits.

[Darrin]

oh I like :D Can you tell me what my BAB and base saves would be ?

Sure.

Race: Silverbrow Human or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0

Track, Travel Devotion, Point Blank Shot (Human)
Favored Enemy: Undead, Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion)


2nd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+0

Rapid Shot
Combat Style


3rd
Scout 1
+2
+3
+5
+0

Travel Devotion (x2)
Skirmish 1d6


4th
Rogue 1
+2
+3
+7
+0

Hand Crossbow Focus (Drow of the Underdark)
Fighter Bonus Feat variant (Unearthed Arcana), Poison Use ACF (Drow of the Underdark)


5th
Scout 2
+3
+3
+8
+0


Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge


6th
Scout 3
+4
+4
+8
+1

Crossbow Sniper
Fast Movement +10', Trackless Step, Skirmish 1d6AC+1


7th
Scout 4
+5
+4
+9
+1

Swift Hunter
Bonus Feat, Skirmish 2d6AC+1


8th
Ranger 3
+6
+4
+9
+2

Heat Endurance (Sandstorm)
Skirmish 2d6AC+2


9th
Ranger 4
+7
+5
+10
+2

Manyshot (Champion), Improved Rapid Shot
Champion of the Wild ACF (Complete Champion), Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII)


10th
Ranger 5
+8
+5
+10
+2


Favored Enemy: Constructs, Skirmish 3d6AC+2


11th
Dragon Devotee 1
+8
+7
+10
+2


+2 Charisma, Natural Armor +1


12th
Dragon Devotee 2
+9
+8
+10
+2

Improved Skirmish
Draconic Resistance, Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4


13th
Dragon Devotee 3
+10
+8
+11
+3


+2 Constitution, Ignore ASF (0th, 1st), Sorcerer Casting 1st (true strike, sniper's shot)


14th
Dragon Devotee 4
+11
+9
+11
+3


Claws (1d3), Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4


15th
Unseen Seer 1
+11
+9
+11
+5

Travel Devotion (x3)
Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4


16th
Unseen Seer 2
+12
+9
+11
+6

Silent Spell
Advanced Learning


17th
Unseen Seer 3
+13
+10
+12
+6


Divination Spell Power +1


18th
Unseen Seer 4
+14
+10
+12
+7

Dragonfire Strike
Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4


19th
Highland Stalker 1
+15
+12
+12
+7


Mountain Stride


20th
Highland Stalker 2
+16
+13
+12
+7


Skirmish 9d6AC+2/11d6AC+4




Manyshot does not work with crossbows, and you need Greater Manyshot in order to trigger multiple skirmish hits.

It's a prereq for Improved Rapid Shot for some stupid reason.

[Fizban]

It's a prereq for Improved Rapid Shot for some stupid reason.
Wow, I don't build archers often and I'd forgotten. So dumb.

Consider however, that means you're spending two feats on what is effectively +2 on attacks, for a +1 per feat. Isn't that supposed to be sacrilege?

[Darrin]

Consider however, that means you're spending two feats on what is effectively +2 on attacks, for a +1 per feat. Isn't that supposed to be sacrilege?

Archery gets boned pretty hard in 3.5. But yes, it might make more sense to take Woodland Archer (Races of the Wild) and/or Deadeye (Dragon Compendium) there.

[Nosta]

Archery gets boned pretty hard in 3.5. But yes, it might make more sense to take Woodland Archer (Races of the Wild) and/or Deadeye (Dragon Compendium) there.
Dose Dead eye and crossbow sniper stack for damage?

[Darrin]

Dose Dead eye and crossbow sniper stack for damage?

Yes. They are from separate sources. They also stack with Hit-and-Run Fighter (Drow of the Underdark).

[Nosta]

Yes. They are from separate sources. They also stack with Hit-and-Run Fighter (Drow of the Underdark).

Ok so In this game the GM wants it to be a powerful game.
in this case we were given and extra 6D6 for of stat points to add to or ability scores as we see fit
well As a Result of this and regular leveling up my Dex Score is 50 ( +20) so dose that mean each of my bolts do 30 more damage as long as i'm with in 30ft?

[Darrin]

well As a Result of this and regular leveling up my Dex Score is 50 ( +20) so dose that mean each of my bolts do 30 more damage as long as i'm with in 30ft?

Yes, but it may be more than 30.

If your Dex bonus is +20, Crossbow Sniper adds +10 damage (half Dex bonus) at any range, and extends the range you can do precision damage out to 60' instead of 30'.

Dead Eye adds +20 damage (full Dex bonus) on top of that to targets within 30'.

Hit-and-Run Fighter adds +20 damage (full Dex bonus) to any flat-footed targets within 30'.