Level 9 Archer

[jaappleton]

Level 9
Multiclassing allowed

My table uses an unconventional stat array, and for this, we've agreed on the following:

20, 18, 16, 10, 8, 8
Two feats (Three if VHuman)

We keep racial abilities, but NOT stat bonuses.

All UA and books available


I was thinking the following:

Eladrin
Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter
Revised Ranger 5 (What Conclave? Stalker?) (Archery Style)
Fighter 2 (Close Quarters Shooter Style)
Cleric (Light) 2

Light Cleric nets me Warding Flare, allowing me to use my reaction to force enemies to have disadvantage against me. That's especially useful to mitigate crits. Light also gets me Faerie Fire, and Cleric in general gets me Bless, Healing Word and Protection from Evil & Good. Those are all useful, good spells to have. Now, whether these would be better than Hunter's Mark... I dunno. But I think they should be in the toolbox.

Ranger 5, let's say Deep Stalker, nets me an extra attack on an opening round. That means I can still use Hunter's Mark on the first turn without having to sacrifice damage on the opening turn. Ranger in general also nets me Advantage on Initiative and advantage on creatures that haven't acted yet.

Likely start as Fighter 2 to get the proficiency in Con saves.

This enables an opening round of Hunter's Mark, 3 shots with Advantage, Action Surge, and 2 more shots.

(Actually, can someone check this - If I Action Surge during the opening round with Deep Stalker, do I get ANOTHER free attack? It does say when I take the Attack action, which Id be doing twice... I think it works)

Anyways, that's either 5 or 6 shots, all with Advantage and Hunter's Mark. 3.5*2+5+10 = 22 per attack * 5 (We'll say 5 attacks) = 110 damage. 132 with a sixth attack. Each attack would be at +12 to hit (or +7 after the Sharpshooter penalty). And +2 damage per shot against favored enemies.


So my questions are as follows:


Is there a better way? What're the alternatives, both for classes and races? I realize there may be better pure offensive options, but I feel this also offers a good deal of defense as well. It also allows for a Fighter archetype at next level up (Monster Hinter for Superiority Dice to mental saves?) or 2nd level Cleric spells, or Greater Favored Enemy (depending on how the campaign goes, all of which could be great options).

[Specter]

Deep Stalker Ranger 6/Assassin 3
Sharpshooter, Alert/Crossbow Expert
Go crazy.

If you're not counting on surprise, exchange Assassin for Battlemaster.

[jaappleton]

Deep Stalker Ranger 6/Assassin 3
Sharpshooter, Alert/Crossbow Expert
Go crazy.

If you're not counting on surprise, exchange Assassin for Battlemaster.

What does adding Assassin do other than add some Sneak Attack damage and grant me crits against "surprised" enemies? Ranger already grants the "advantage on enemies that haven't acted".

Battle master is... Alright. But Precision Attack is only good for 4 times per short rest. I'd rather go another route to get Superiority Dice, like Scout, Monster Hunter, etc.

[Specter]

What does adding Assassin do other than add some Sneak Attack damage and grant me crits against "surprised" enemies? Ranger already grants the "advantage on enemies that haven't acted".

Battle master is... Alright. But Precision Attack is only good for 4 times per short rest. I'd rather go another route to get Superiority Dice, like Scout, Monster Hunter, etc.

It makes every attack crit. When yiu don't need to get up close with the enemy, it's much easier to start combat on surprise.

You realize these other archetypes will also give you 4 sup. dice, right? Battlemaster and the other dudes' effectiveness relies on how often you can take a short rest. If you have to go through 2 or 3 battles before resting then it will blow, but otherwise it's good.

You could also add Champion to the mix, but it won't help mitigating Sharpshooter's penalty like BM. If you count it, it's bow+dex+enemy damage+hunter's mark+sharpshooter's 10+possible maneuver dmg, and that hurts.

For a final build, I'd go Ranger 12/BM 4/Assassin 4. I've played it with the old Ranger, and was the king of DPR in my party, can't imagine how much better it got now.

[jaappleton]

I can't believe I missed it, but I also forgot that Rogue grants Cunning Action. Between using my full action in my initial build to cast Faerie Fire or Bless, I'm better off using Cunning Action to Hide and get advantage that way, aren't I?

Though... If I'm using my bonus action to Hide...

Do I still need Crossbow Expert?

Would the build be better off going for Sharpshooter and Alert? Not utilizing a Hand Crossbow means I could go Longbow and have the better damage dice, too.

[Specter]

I can't believe I missed it, but I also forgot that Rogue grants Cunning Action. Between using my full action in my initial build to cast Faerie Fire or Bless, I'm better off using Cunning Action to Hide and get advantage that way, aren't I?

Though... If I'm using my bonus action to Hide...

Do I still need Crossbow Expert?

Would the build be better off going for Sharpshooter and Alert? Not utilizing a Hand Crossbow means I could go Longbow and have the better damage dice, too.

Yes. For the standard sniper maneuver, shoot and hide. With Ranger's Pass Without Trace and expertise in Stealth, no one will ever find you.

Crossbow Expert isn't too worth it, in my opinion, but I'm very biased against this unrealistic feat so I might not be the best to say.

[jaappleton]

I would still need to make the basic requirements to hide, though.

So this is where race comes in.

Deep Stalker grants me Darkvision, and creatures with it don't gain it's benefit for detecting me.

IMO, that puts Halfling at the top of the list. Immunity to 1s and Darkvision, with the ability to hide behind allies if need be?

I suppose the classic Wood Elf is also a strong call.

[8wGremlin]

Might I suggest this build:

VHuman: Crossbow mastery (only have the hand crossbow in your off hand, nothing else in your main hand)
Fighter 1-5
Pick archery to enjoy the +2 to hit.
Action Surge
Second wind
@ 3rd level take Scout from the UA [http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf]

This allows you to take the Natural Explorer from the new ranger class (accepted as valid the Tweets from Mearls)

Gives you proficiency in 3 skills from Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival or Thieves tools

and a small set of maneuvers and d8 superiority dice.

@ 4th level take Sharpshooter feat
@5th 2 shots with the Attack action. With the bonus action attack, you get 3 shots off around. Each doing 1d6+dex mod
with your starting dex at 16 you'll have 1d6+3 at Range.

You'll be in medium armour (breastplate) for semi-decent AC.

You then have 4 levels of whatever you want to augment this.

[Slipperychicken]

Do you guys actually get a lot of opportunities to trigger the assassin thing against boss enemies? I just have a hard time seeing how that plays out on the table in a worthwhile way.


I'm not so big on situational nova damage, so in the interest of consistently high damage and solid defenses I would just take Fighter 9, variant human or halfling, EK (for spells, get the usual ones and magic weapon*, disregard war magic), a background that gives me thieves' tools, archery style, and the crossbow feats. Still gets 3 attacks at level nine, 4 at eleven, and action surge always makes for good burst-damage. Stats are Dex>Con>Wis>Str~Cha~Int, You can use the extra ASIs for resilent in your bad saves, war caster to keep your buffs up (con saves of +8 with advantage and indomitable makes it very hard to break), and whatever you want after that (maybe lucky, or healer if you have long days and no-one else took it). If you run out of good ideas for your ASIs, then be a halfling so you can reroll nat 1s and ride a medium-sized mount for mobility, or even a gnome if you're worried about your mental saves.

*Magic Weapon normally seems like a waste if you assume you'll get one as an item, but your build relies on hand crossbows specifically. Those are obscure to the extent that you're unlikely to get one unless your GM goes out of his way to set up a magic mart or put one in the loot for you. I've seen the pain that crossbow-fighters go through when this fact sinks in. The spell will get you past most resistances and immunities without too much fuss, even if it's only for two hour-long intervals each day.

[BigONotation]

I've DMed a party where one of the PCs was a Wood Elf Hunter Ranger with the Sharpshooter feat. 1d8 longbow + 1d6 Hunter's Mark + 10 per arrow twice a round (possibly three times because of Horde Breaker) is a lot of damage from 60 feet away ignoring cover...

[Slipperychicken]

I've DMed a party where one of the PCs was a Wood Elf Hunter Ranger with the Sharpshooter feat. 1d8 longbow + 1d6 Hunter's Mark + 10 per arrow twice a round (possibly three times because of Horde Breaker) is a lot of damage from 60 feet away ignoring cover...

I played with a battlemaster crossbow master. She had either 18 or 20 dex, and was an absolute monster. She had a crazy attack bonus even before that 1d4 from bless so she could do power-attacks most rounds, shooting for 1d6+15 three or more times a turn, depending on what buffs we stacked on her. She could hit anything on the map for some great damage, which is a pretty big deal tactically when you include enemies that can fly, concentrating casters, or squishy support enemies hiding behind meatshields. Pretty much the only thing holding her back was a lack of a magic weapon; if she could bypass resistances and get *another* +1 on top of everything else, it would almost be too easy.

[Foxhound438]

I would still need to make the basic requirements to hide, though.

So this is where race comes in.

Deep Stalker grants me Darkvision, and creatures with it don't gain it's benefit for detecting me.

IMO, that puts Halfling at the top of the list. Immunity to 1s and Darkvision, with the ability to hide behind allies if need be?

I suppose the classic Wood Elf is also a strong call.

depends on where you're fighting and who with, if the rest of your party is just going to run in, halfling looses a lot of its power. Wood elf is pretty reliant on having terrain and weather features that can lightly obscure you.