Preacher of Asmodeus - In need of Preaches

[Baldin]

Hi there Playgrounders,

In a current game I'm playing in I sadly died, disintergrated to be precise. Now I will start a new character, a Seeker of the Song/Orator of Asmodeus =p. This character will be a zealot and preacher of Asmodeus (we play the Way of the Wicked campaign). Now I have some knowledge of Asmodeus, the Pact Primival and devils in general, however I'm horrible in thinking of preachings. I would ask you all for short preaches I could use in general, or when healing/damaging.

Cheers
Baldin

[Knitifine]

Many evangelical sermons are available online for you to use.
Simply swap out a few words in the ones warning against hell and you'll probably have something good going.

As an example...
"Now I know plenty of you think of yourself as good and righteous men. But Asmodeus knows what you are in the dark. He knows of your wandering eye, of your lusts and your greed. And unless you give up your delusions and follow your lord you will be imprisoned forever in the lowest rungs of hell. Can I get an amen?"

[Red Fel]

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/06/13/6360137860460712741808233616_636012557345734289146 7872617_tumblr_lzd8jqLJHN1qjhjdwo1_500.gif
Say it. SAY IT!

[Doc_Maynot]

Tenacious D's "Satan is Inside All of Us (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x40UYANhAwM)" speech comes to mind.

[Segev]

Seeing as Red Fel has yet to be summoned, I'll chime in while we wait.

You may be looking for ways and patterns of speech, which I'm not going to be so great at helping you with. But if you're instead looking for core doctrine on which to build a philosophy to preach, just consider what Asmodeus stands for.

Asmodeus teaches ambition, and the wise pursuit thereof. His is a harsh lesson plan, for the lack of wisdom is corrected harshly; he has little patience for those whose reach exceeds their grasp. They fall prey to the wiser ones whose vision had them extend their grasp to the point they wished to reach.

Asmodeus, therefore, teaches the pursuit of power. Power in every form is useful. Think of every form of power you can, and build a small lesson or philosophy around how to acquire, use, and exploit it.

Power based on brute force (whether magic or pure physical strength) is often maligned by those who think to follow Asmodeus's path, but they are fools for forgetting that all power comes down to that at some level; without pure force, one cannot overcome the idiotic brutes of the Abyss who seem to think it's the only kind that matters. Just because it is a hallmark of fools to rely solely on this does not mean it is not equally foolish to forsake it completely, however!

Power based on others' desires is one that is classically favored by Asmodean cults. While it is Mammon who teaches greed, and the Erinyes are the sellers of lust, Asmodeus teaches you to remember that it is others' addiction to these things which give you the control you seek. Do not lose sight of your true goal and start to pursue the lures for their own sake!

More lessons likely align with this form of power than any other, because Asmodeus himself is a master of manipulating the Dukes of Hell to keep his position. Despite his great personal power, he almost views it as a disappointment if he has to resort to using it, himself. So, two other main themes on the notion of power based on others' desires: 1) lessons on how best to actually exploit their weaknesses, and 2) emphasis that the reason this is such a good kind of power is that it lets you exploit that first kind - brute force - that is held by those you manipulate. The delicate balance here is to make sure that they only ever want to turn that first kind of power against you when you have others who have greater brute force to defend you with on your side.

Growing out of "others' desire" is a sort of collective power: politics. Ultimately, politics is about turning others' desires so that they will trade favors for you. But it also involves understanding the rules of the system. This is important: Asmodeus will teach that all systems have rules. Even the disgustingly Chaotic societies of the Abyss have rules; they're just messy and require a masterful touch to navigate (and one must never trust that one's touch is sufficiently masterful, because foolishness and Chaos go hand in hand, so an idiot might actually sabotage himself to turn his brute force against you at the worst moment; be wary).

There are many other kinds, but before I close I'll just touch on one more: the power inherent to knowing things.

If you know something everybody else knows, that's good; it prevents them from having advantage over you. Make sure you know as much as possible about what's going on and "common knowledge" so that nothing can blindside you. Knowing secret things, knowing rare truths, and knowing enough to be able to decide HOW to use and exploit whatever other kinds of power you have to hand are also important. Power is useless if you don't know where to point it. Being the one person who knows where best to use power is only one step away from being the political spider that CAN direct it, because anybody who wants to use their power well will bargain with you for it. Viziers who lack political acumen still can be dangerous and powerful men simply because their knowledge allows their potentates to know where to point their power...and they can always direct it in ways to benefit themselves on the side.



So focus your lessons around the best ways to secure your position. Both literally your own, and more generally teaching your disciples to do so. And, as always, remember to preach keeping your eye on your prize. Never let the power itself become the prize; it is your tool for your ambition. But it is the fuel for that ambition, as well, so don't neglect it. Focus on building it up, and plan.

If you build a philosophy around these points, you should be a good way towards having topics on which to preach the Asmodean way.

[Baldin]

Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely take it all in consideration. Power itself not being the prize is a good point. My character will be completely devoted to Asmodeus and thus his goal is to serve.

A little on the motives of the character, named Hrathen. He believes that Asmodeus will purge the world of all heretics. Hrathen made it his lives goal to save as many lives as possible, by converting the heretics in devout believers of Asmodeus. If one is devoted to Asmodeus he will spare them. By converting he will give Asmodeus more power and influence and thus help add to the goals of his supreme master.

[Falcon X]

What era are you placing his cosmological place at? For example, if you are at 5e timeframe, you can play up his ascension to godhood which freed him from the bonds of pure evil he was under before.

[Segev]

Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely take it all in consideration. Power itself not being the prize is a good point. My character will be completely devoted to Asmodeus and thus his goal is to serve.

A little on the motives of the character, named Hrathen. He believes that Asmodeus will purge the world of all heretics. Hrathen made it his lives goal to save as many lives as possible, by converting the heretics in devout believers of Asmodeus. If one is devoted to Asmodeus he will spare them. By converting he will give Asmodeus more power and influence and thus help add to the goals of his supreme master.

Did he, by any chance, once attend a particularly brutal monestary and decide, after learning about the fiendish grafts, that he didn't want to continue there? :smallwink:

As a warning, while Asmodeus is not one to spurn a useful servant, he would view anybody whose sole purpose was to BE a servant to be falling short in the lessons on ambition. Now, if your ambition is to be the highest-placed servant you can, with an acknowledgement that your grasp likely will never be so far that you could reach to be above Asmodeus, then that might be pleasing to him. "The highest servant of Asmodeus is above the greatest of rulers save Asmodeus himself. I will aim for there, as I know I cannot succeed in taking Asmodeus's place, myself."

But overall, that works. That's almost even LN, rather than LE, given the motive of "saving lives by getting them to devote to Asmodeus and be spared."

[Baldin]

Did he, by any chance, once attend a particularly brutal monestary and decide, after learning about the fiendish grafts, that he didn't want to continue there? :smallwink:

Haha, I see what you did there, he did not, although I realy did like the name=p.

He does wish power for himself, so he is not a mindless follower indeed. He beleives in the dogma of Asmodeus very strongly. Also, his focus on convertion is mostly to powerfull creatures which he would find usefull. A farmer or begger doesnt interest him.

As for the era it is 3,5 however he did ascent to godhood already as in Pathfinder.

[Falcon X]

The Ruby Rod:
And at the birth of chaos, when the shard of blackest black and darkest dark did create all those demons we work so hard to purge from our hearts and children, Asmodeus took the shard of chaos creation in his hands and spilt his crimson blood over it, giving him power over all beings of chaos and evil.
Woe to those creatures, those demons who are born of chaos and of whom Asmodeus holds the key to their creation, for though they combat against him, they cannot prevail.
We, as his loyal followers, must work to purge chaos from our hearts and continue the work Asmodeus started so long ago.
(preacher cuts his hand in demonstration)
For it is in the very order of our lifeblood that chaos cannot understand and must flee from.

[Segev]

Hm. Still nobody has actually opened the way for Red Fel. I guess I'll have to. Red Fel, you are cordially invited to give your unique and utterly appropriate perspective.

[Grey Watcher]

It doesn't say anything that hasn't already been said here, but now I have "In Pursuit of Excellence" from Children of Eden stuck in my head. Thanks. :smalltongue:

For the unfamiliar, Children of Eden is a musical based on the Book of Genesis, and the song "In Pursuit of Excellence" is the snake tempting Eve into eating the forbidden fruit.

[Red Fel]

Hm. Still nobody has actually opened the way for Red Fel. I guess I'll have to. Red Fel, you are cordially invited to give your unique and utterly appropriate perspective.

https://m.popkey.co/109274/3eNRq.gif


Hi there Playgrounders,

In a current game I'm playing in I sadly died, disintergrated to be precise. Now I will start a new character, a Seeker of the Song/Orator of Asmodeus =p. This character will be a zealot and preacher of Asmodeus (we play the Way of the Wicked campaign). Now I have some knowledge of Asmodeus, the Pact Primival and devils in general, however I'm horrible in thinking of preachings. I would ask you all for short preaches I could use in general, or when healing/damaging.

Cheers
Baldin

Well, Segev has pretty much nailed the thing in concept. Asmodeus promotes cunning, ambition, and ruthlessness, and you should, too. The trick is in the specifics, and it goes like this: Present them as virtues.

Allow me to offer you an illustration. You come to a village that fears an impending Orc invasion. They have sought aid from the LG King nearby. Here you go.

"Friends, friends. Will you seek aid from afar in this, your time of need? Will you indebt yourself to another for aid that will not come in time? No, I say! Reach within yourselves! You are a community of friends and allies, of strength and history! Draw on your own strength! Do not cower behind the shield of a foreign king; show your own strength! The strong among you deserve the honor of fighting to protect their own! Cast out from among you the weak, and those who fear the sight of blood; they will only hinder your resolve. Friends, this peril will not pass over you once, but shall return; yet in this huddle of thatched roofs and wooden fences, I see a hidden strength! Band together, and form order and rank - you will find that, united, the strong shall overcome!"

That's inspiring. That's downright heroic. Now think about what he's actually saying.
Abandon the LG king. He's weak.
Abandon those who can't or won't fight. They're weak.
Prepare not only for this fight, but future fights. Stop being ordinary people and become soldiers.
And a few hidden meanings:
Embrace order and hierarchy; it will save you.
Discard the weak among you, and pursue power.
Become paranoid of the outside world; you can only rely on one another.
Not every follower of Asmodeus' doctrine needs to know that he follows Asmodeus. Big A doesn't need the worship of people; he just needs them to embrace his tenets and, in doing so, to damn themselves. Follow that.

Things you should praise:
Power and ambition. Inspire people to become the biggest, the strongest, the most cunning, the most influential.
Order and obedience. Remind people that they are at their strongest when united. More importantly, when united behind a strong leader.
Choice is an illusion. The freedoms people crave are what weaken them. People are meant to obey; it brings out their loyalty, devotion, and sense of service.
Weakness is abhorrent. Those who serve are ennobled in their service, but those who only ever crawl are unworthy even to do that. Find honor in service, but don't be pathetic.
Ruthlessness is admirable. Doing what needs to be done shows great conviction and dedication, laudable virtues. Sometimes doing what must be done is hard, or unpopular; those who can do so even then are truly strong.
And so forth. Praise strong leaders, loyal followers, the ambitious and the severe. Implore people to mistrust, to seek revenge, to scheme and to desire. That's how it's done.


A little on the motives of the character, named Hrathen. He believes that Asmodeus will purge the world of all heretics. Hrathen made it his lives goal to save as many lives as possible, by converting the heretics in devout believers of Asmodeus. If one is devoted to Asmodeus he will spare them. By converting he will give Asmodeus more power and influence and thus help add to the goals of his supreme master.

So, is he delusional? Asmodeus isn't in it to save or reward people; he's in it to enforce cosmic justice. Asmodeus is a former agent of Cosmic Good whose new station gives him the opportunity to punish the corrupt, or more accurately to enforce the balance between Good and Evil. He's not about saving the innocent, but about punishing the guilty by incentivizing them towards Evil.


It doesn't say anything that hasn't already been said here, but now I have "In Pursuit of Excellence" from Children of Eden stuck in my head. Thanks. :smalltongue:

For the unfamiliar, Children of Eden is a musical based on the Book of Genesis, and the song "In Pursuit of Excellence" is the snake tempting Eve into eating the forbidden fruit.

I much prefer "Lost in the Wilderness," myself. That, and "The Spark of Creation."

[Segev]

There is room for the LN "protect all" aspect of Order in Asmodeus's worship. It isn't the pinnacle of his ideal, but if it's good enough for clerics, one-step-removed is probably good enough for Orators.

The one aspect of the message Red Fel suggests that will be a bit of a hard sell for those used to a more LG mindset is "cast out the weak." Rephrase that to "brook no shirkers," however, and it gets a lot more palatable. Make a point of finding something even "the weak" could do, if they were willing to serve in that capacity. Okay, so they're squeamish about blood. That's not a vice in and of itself; many wonderfully ambitious people can't really get their own hands dirty. A weakness, sure, but not insurmountable. It's the WILLINGNESS to surmount it that's important. Even if you can't work THROUGH it, work AROUND it.

So be, contrary to what those who think they know Asmodeus might expect, compassionate. You understand their weakness, and you exhort them to overcome it. As long as they're willing to try, to make obeisance while they learn to stand on their own, show understanding. You are the gentle voice telling them they can be so much more.

Only preach casting out when these weak ones have undermined the success of the town. When they use their squeamishness as excuse to oppose what must be done, rather than as a reason to find some other way to contribute.

You should count it a triumph should one who is too soft-hearted for the kind of ruthlessness you preach come to you and say, "I know I am weak. I cannot do all that I should. Help me to overcome this. Show me what I can do, for now, to be of use, and teach me that I might become stronger than I now am." He has recognized his flaws, and seeks to overcome them. Obviously, you don't elevate him to high status or any such nonsense; he hasn't earned that. But you show him gentle patience, as long as he is obedient and puts forth effort and competence. He is promising. Even should you have to castigate and punish him, do not do it in anger, but in sorrow and pity for the weakness you must help him cast out.

When you turn the weak into the strong, you demonstrate the power and wisdom of Asmodeus to all.

[Flickerdart]

The weak are very useful to keep around. When you want someone to do something, you can say "What, you want us to ask One-armed John to do this?" or "If you don't want to do this, you're just as useless as One-armed John."

[Extra Anchovies]

As with all alignment-related matters, I very strongly recommend the easydamus alignment site (http://easydamus.com/alignment.html), because it is without question one of the best available resources on the conventional alignment system. The Lawful Evil (http://easydamus.com/lawfulevil.html) page will definitely help in this case, and the real alignments (http://easydamus.com/alignmentreal.html) page has some good stuff as well. Lawful Evil, stripped of the moral connotations, is honorable and determined. The things it values most are security, power, achievement, and tradition. All good traits and values for a leader or an entire society, no?

Another angle to approach this from is by taking a look at the hierarchy of devils and systems of promotion and demotion in Fiendish Codex II. Baator's society is meritocracy in its purest form. The only way to advance in the ranks of the devils is to outperform your fellows; thus, the higher ranks are naturally filled with the most competent fiends, and every promotion or demotion is deserved by its recipient. In Baator, the ability to rule and the right to rule are one and the same.


So, is he delusional? Asmodeus isn't in it to save or reward people; he's in it to enforce cosmic justice. Asmodeus is a former agent of Cosmic Good whose new station gives him the opportunity to punish the corrupt, or more accurately to enforce the balance between Good and Evil. He's not about saving the innocent, but about punishing the guilty by incentivizing them towards Evil.

This could definitely be be a very open aspect of a devil-worshipping church, too. The temptations offered by devils are tests, with the purpose of weeding out the immoral such that only the souls unwavering in their virtue are allowed into the heavens. All those who gave in to selfishness or greed when given an opportunity to do so, are punished for their moral failings; carrying out the punishment takes time and other resources, so divine energy is harvested from the souls to make up for that cost and to help the denizens of hell keep up their work. Souls damned by fiends aren't good souls corrupted to evil - they're evil souls who've shown their true nature.

Followers of devil cults which openly espouse this idea would likely acknowledge their personal moral failings and believe (truthfully or not) that by supporting the works of devils, they are paying a penance which will free them from some or all of that punishment, and will enter the devilish hierarchy immediately or much more quickly than a corrupted soul who denied their evil nature. After their transformation into a devil, they then join the ranks of those who enforce the cosmic order and weed out the evil from among the righteous.

There's bits here and there in FC2 that support this idea of serving devils in life to get faster or immediate promotion after death, but it would work a bit better if devils (or at least devils created from the souls of devil-worshippers) retained some part of their earthly memories and personality (even as little as knowing their name and station in life), so you may want to talk to your DM about that. If the setting you're in sticks with the default lore of souls' personalities being destroyed in the transformation to Lemures, that could still be an openly acknowledged principle of a church of Baator. When you die, that's it; your time is up. Why waste your soul by languishing in the soft comforts of heaven for eternity when you can devote your soul (in life and in death) to rooting out evil in all its forms and ensuring that it is justly punished?

A church of that sort would be [Evil] in that it's aligned with one of the lower planes, and that it values personal ability and ambition, but it wouldn't be "evil" in the malicious or immoral sense. Its followers wouldn't advocate for wrongdoing, but they also wouldn't openly preach against it - instead, they'd keep a close eye on the people around them and ensure that every wrongdoing is punished accordingly. Consider keeping a ledger of the chaotic and/or evil acts the other party members partake in.

Edit: huh, I've just about convinced myself to play an LN devil-worshipper. Neat.

[Baldin]

Again, thanks for all replies!

I'll definitely take all your information and suggestions with me, aswell as adjust the character a bit. I do want him to be Lawfull Evil and he needs more ambition for himself. Thanks all!

[Segev]

As a word of advice... I wouldn't worry too much over whether he's LN or LE; play him to be the PERSON you want him to be. The alignment will take care of itself.

[Bohandas]

Tenacious D's "Satan is Inside All of Us (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x40UYANhAwM)" speech comes to mind.

omg, that's great! Why don't I remember that scene from the movie? Is it a deleted scene?

[Doc_Maynot]

omg, that's great! Why don't I remember that scene from the movie? Is it a deleted scene?

Nope, happens right before Beelzeboss.

[Eisfalken]

The weak are very useful to keep around. When you want someone to do something, you can say "What, you want us to ask One-armed John to do this?" or "If you don't want to do this, you're just as useless as One-armed John."

This is an important part. Asmodeus doesn't "hate" weak beings. What he thinks is that the strong are meant to rule the weak, in a hierarchy determined by relative strength. For example, lemures are important exactly for the reason Flickerdart has given: they are the soldiers of the Blood War sent to destroy the hated demons of the Abyss.

Good oratory for Asmodeus should emphasize his nature and origins. Remember the story given in FC2: Asmodeus was a servant of the gods who ordered him to fight against Chaos. And when he did, they tried to kick him out of the Upper Planes because he was tainted by doing their dirty work. And even then, he never gave up hope, he just found a way to force the gods to give him his proper reward. Why, he was even instrumental in forging the very concept of Law, bringing stability to the cosmos!

The ideal crowd for Asmodeus are those who have been wronged and are bitter and hateful about it, and those with ambition being told that it is a character flaw. Instead of them making "peace", they should do something about it. And unlike other gods, Asmodeus won't lie to someone about what he wants in return for giving his help to a mortal. After all, giving your soul to Asmodeus, he guarantees you a chance of advancement in his realm, unlike the other gods who may never even allow you to rise above the level of petitioner.

Remember, the key here is twisting the perception of things. The audience can never be allowed to realize that Asmodeus doesn't give a flying rat turd about them, he just wants their souls as fuel for his ambitions, that he will completely pervert any deals made to favor him completely, or that the audience is entering a society with legions of ambitious beings who will gladly betray each other to get ahead.

The devil is in the details, as they say...

[Bohandas]

Maybe the preacher could be more like an army recruiter (maybe crossed with a reporter for the fear segmemts of the tv news) wanting people to join up to stop the tanar'ri menace.