Missed Touch and Ranged Touch Attacks

[Turk Mannion]

Hi everyone,

I did a search for the answer to my question, but I was really not sure it was addressed correctly. So a very simple scenario/question:

A character casts a ranged touch attack and shoots it a the enemy. The attack misses the touch AC. Because it was a miss, can that character simply make the same attack in the following round, without casting the spell again? Is there no consequence for missing a ranged touch attack? It seems like this makes it an auto-hit spell, except it may take an extra round or two. Somehow this does not seem to make sense.

Does the same apply to a melee touch attack?

I have read the PHB passage on ranged and melee touch attacks and held spells, but I am not sure I am interpreting it correctly.

Thanks.

-Turk

[Erit]

I don't believe you can hold the charge on ranged touch spells, no. You're flinging the spell energy through the air at your target; with melee touch spells, if you fail to discharge it the spell's still in your hand, but it's sort of like mundane daggers: If you hold onto it, you can swing again next round, but if your throw it then it's no longer in your hand, even if you miss (this example assumes you aren't a Bloodstorm Blade).

So it doesn't make sense for a good reason; that isn't how it happens.

[Zaydos]

Spells with ranged touch attacks are not typically touch spells (as it's a range definition) but rays and are lost on a miss. Spells with a melee touch attack are typically touch spells and can be held and Tome and Blood I believe explicitly talked about how if you missed you could try again.

The Rules Compendium clarifies a bit by putting the section on holding touch spells under range and not duration. It specifies that you can keep trying, and also that if you touch anything (including intentionally touching an illusion) it discharges. So you can't draw a weapon, open a door, etc. Rules Compendium leaves out the line about how if you cast a spell while holding a charge you lose the charge, though (it doesn't specify you can cast other spells during it though) :smallsigh:

[Necroticplague]

Hi everyone,

I did a search for the answer to my question, but I was really not sure it was addressed correctly. So a very simple scenario/question:

A character casts a ranged touch attack and shoots it a the enemy. The attack misses the touch AC. Because it was a miss, can that character simply make the same attack in the following round, without casting the spell again? Is there no consequence for missing a ranged touch attack? It seems like this makes it an auto-hit spell, except it may take an extra round or two. Somehow this does not seem to make sense.

Does the same apply to a melee touch attack?

I have read the PHB passage on ranged and melee touch attacks and held spells, but I am not sure I am interpreting it correctly.

Thanks.

-Turk

Ranged touch attacks are Rays, and no. You can only hold onto charges for spells with a range of Touch, which Rays don't have. Rays have a ranged associated with how far the can go instead of Touch. For example, Scorching Ray has a range of Close. For spells with a range of Touch that don't allow you to touch multiple targets, that's exactly how it operates, though. You can keep trying to swat with the same Inflict Wounds over and over till it hits, but you're out of luck if you're Ray of Stupidity misses, you're out of luck.

Also, when turns matter, 'an extra round or two' can be a pretty steep cost.

[Name1]

Ranged touch attacks are Rays, and no. You can only hold onto charges for spells with a range of Touch, which Rays don't have. Rays have a ranged associated with how far the can go instead of Touch. For example, Scorching Ray has a range of Close. For spells with a range of Touch that don't allow you to touch multiple targets, that's exactly how it operates, though. You can keep trying to swat with the same Inflict Wounds over and over till it hits, but you're out of luck if you're Ray of Stupidity misses, you're out of luck.

Also, when turns matter, 'an extra round or two' can be a pretty steep cost.

Aren't orbs ranged touch attacks too?

[Zaydos]

Aren't orbs ranged touch attacks too?

They are (in that they're Ranged Touch Attacks). They still aren't touch spells as that's a range.

[Calthropstu]

Here's a question then... if the spell also works on objects, can you target it so that "if my attack is dodged, it hits the support column behind my target dropping the ceiling?" Such would be the case with disintegrate... there could be some serious consequences to missing with that spell.

[Troacctid]

Here's a question then... if the spell also works on objects, can you target it so that "if my attack is dodged, it hits the support column behind my target dropping the ceiling?" Such would be the case with disintegrate... there could be some serious consequences to missing with that spell.
I believe that's a variant rule in a sidebar somewhere.

[Turk Mannion]

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. That matches up with my thoughts as well.

I have sent an email with citations from Rules Compendium, PHB (which is a bit non-specific) and this post.

Told them that in the end, if there is still not agreement with the ruling from the book, then I will just house-rule it while I DM. I don't like doing that, but.....

-Turk

[Mordaedil]

How does this apply to an Archmage with Arcane Reach?

[Necroticplague]

How does this apply to an Archmage with Arcane Reach?

As normal. They still keep the spell they use Arcane Reach on, because it's still a Touch range spell. Arcane Reach doesn't change the spell's range, just allows you to use it on people farther away.