Gestalt with an Unchained Rogue

[Glarx]

Hey there, Playground!

Been a while since I've asked an inane question, so let's get that ball rolling again. I've got the opportunity to play in a first level gestalt game. It's a bit of a curious situation, where we'll all start solo for the first few levels and then meet up later on. For the sake of this thread, let's focus on the solo aspects solely.

I know I want to play an Unchained Rogue, because unchained rogues are so cool. That being the case, I've got no idea what class would pair well in a gestalt setting. I realize the standard answer will be something along the lines of "you're gestalt, you can slap anything else in and it should be just fine," or "gestalt is dumb, you're dumb." And I get that. But I'm still curious, so humor me. :smallwink:

My initial thought was Unchained Monk. I've never played an Unchained Monk and they seem pretty okay. There's stat synergy with the dex and the wisdom. The weapons (to qualify for flurry of blows) are a bit of a bummer, but not insurmountable. A high dex and high wisdom should cause the lack of armor to not really be a thing, and the ki abilities seem like they'd be useful enough.

Then I thought perhaps Antipaladin could be an interesting pairing. Shoring up bad saves, getting full BAB (as with Unchained Monk), a few interesting magic options. It seems a little antithetical to go with a leather use and a plate user, but the combination didn't seem overtly conflicting nor did it feel synergistic.

Bard could be interesting as well, but I don't feel I'll be able to spare too much into Charisma as is, so that feels a little like a nonstarter.

So I figured I'd ask and solicit advice from the Playground. Do you have any classes you think would work well with an Unchained Rogue?

[Secret Wizard]

I'd never put UnRogue + cool in the same sentence but guess you are sold on it.

1. Unchained Monk is a bad idea as there is no playstyle that rewards DEX over STR. The best options for it are Dragon Style and Jabbing Style, and everything else really pales in comparison. I guess you could scrap something up with Ascetic Style, but it'd be suboptimal.

2. Antipally works, in that each other covers the latter's weaknesses in many ways (saves for the Rogue, skills and utility for the Antipally). You'd have to stick to leather though so as not to jeopardize your Evasion. I'd recommend the Insinuator archetype if you do this, as it has extra feats to perfect a fighting style while also allowing some alignment flexibility and great defensive capabilities.

3. Bard works well but it overlaps with Rogue in many ways. You don't need a ton of CHA - usually, 14, 15 or 16 is good enough. What do you mean you can't spare much on CHA? What are you using your stats for?

Other options:

- Iroran Paladin archetype Paladin. Light armor user, good defensive abilities, wants DEX to qualify for TWF to use it along with unarmed strikes, casting and other tools. Fits well, but locks you in LG alignment.

- Sacred Fist Warpriest. Unlike the UnMonk, the SFW wants Pummeling Style, which works well with DEX builds. No full BAB though.

- Kensai Magus. So cliche it hurts but it works very well.

- Daring Champion Cavalier. Probably your best bet. Can Finesse a longsword, buckler proficiency, scaling dodge bonus which pairs well with your Uncanny Dodge, good Fort saves, full BAB, tons of damage in Challenge + Precise Strike, good utility, and a choice of Order to pair up any concept you may want. I recommend having extra CHA to pick up Chain Challenge later in the game.

[Glarx]

Statwise, I'm looking at something like:

Strength 10
Dexterity 17 (19 after Human Racial)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 12

I'll give those options a look over, though! The Insinuator archetype seems really interesting, too. It feels like it might work well with the Poisoner archetype.

[Secret Wizard]

Those stats seem very good for an Unchained Rogue -- but if you pair it up with something with good Will saves or a CHA-focus, might as well take a 10 on WIS (unless this is part of your character concept).

Another good one that would work with that statline would be a Mantis Zealot archetype Warpriest, though sadly you can't finesse sawtooth sabres. Still, the rest of the kit works really well.

[dascarletm]

What are you aiming for with this character? What is your character goal, or do you have one? That'll help with what class you should pair with. Also, are psionics/path of war allowed?

First thoughts are either going a full caster on one side to bump up your roguishness, Sorcerer seems appropriate, or going something with full BaB.

[Glarx]

I'll be honest, the wisdom was also for Unchained Monk. I realize now that changing the paired class would change the stat priorities. :smallbiggrin: Whoops!

Two additional questions for you. One, do you think I shouldn't go with Human? I'm a fan of the extra feat and +2 floating attribute bonus, as I think just about everyone is, but sometimes there are rare gems hidden that I'm not familiar with. Two, is there anything about Unchained Rogues that you find disappointing in the extreme? They remind me of Assassin's Creed protagonists and it's just delightful in my mind, but I'm always interested in hearing the mechanical side of things as well.

---


What are you aiming for with this character? What is your character goal, or do you have one? That'll help with what class you should pair with. Also, are psionics/path of war allowed?

First thoughts are either going a full caster on one side to bump up your roguishness, Sorcerer seems appropriate, or going something with full BaB.

No on Psionics and Path of War. As for the aims, I'm keeping her relatively open for now. I like to get the mechanics nailed down first so I can fit the character to the mechanics. Start with the crunchy endoskeleton and flesh out from there.

I agree with you on full BAB, that's why antipaladin and unchained monk were part of my thinking. I like casters, but with such a heavy investment in dex I wasn't certain if I could viably swing a full caster as an entire side.

[the_archduke]

Two suggestions for class

1. Slayer. More sneak attack, combat feats like crazy. Good Fort save and better HD

if DSP is allowed

2. Aegis

Gives all good saves and full Bab with D10 HD. Great Chassis. Aegis covers defenses and is mostly a passive class.

For race, pick Elf. With either Slayer or Aegis (or any class that gives all martial weapons proficiency) you get to use the Elven Curve blade. This gives you 1.5x dex to damage. Elves also give a bonus to Int which Rogue, Aegis and Slayer all like. The Con penalty would hurt on the Slayer, but it would not be a problem on the Aegis who can get an easy enhancement bonus to Con.

Are you allowed to switch around scores? I would swap Int and Cha, you really don't need Cha for much.

edit: Just saw DSP not allowed. Sad, I really want to play a gestalt uRogue\\Aegis

[Psyren]

1. Unchained Monk is a bad idea as there is no playstyle that rewards DEX over STR. The best options for it are Dragon Style and Jabbing Style, and everything else really pales in comparison. I guess you could scrap something up with Ascetic Style, but it'd be suboptimal.

I'm going to disagree with this considerably, a Dex focus works just fine with uMonk. You don't need Jabbing Style or Dragon Style as simply flanking and using SA will provide plenty of damage, and you'll have full BAB from the monk side to boot. From there just get Dex to damage (e.g. via Agile) and you're set.

@OP: There are plenty of decent weapon choices among the monk weapons, but if you really want to get a classically good rogue weapon into your flurry, all you really need is Crusader's Flurry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/crusader-s-flurry) and the right deity. The easiest way to get this (along with proficiency and a couple of domain powers) is via a cleric dip, or alternatively via a series of feats (e.g. Adept Channel.) Tanagaar is a good choice for example - he's a LG Empyreal Lord with the Kukri as his favored weapon. For domains I would pick Loyalty (gives a great and long-lasting buff to your weakest save) and Friendship (gives you free-action telepathy every combat.) These work well even with a single cleric level.

The second route will cost you a few feats of course, but you save on not needing TWF/ITWF/GTWF too and generally end up ahead on DPR because flurry gives you more attacks while being more accurate.

You can also throw in some vows for more ki (I recommend Chains and Truth, and if you picked Friendship above you can even take a Vow of Silence with few repercussions.)

[Secret Wizard]

1. Humans are great. There are some better niche races lying around, but with a Human you know you are going to get your money's worth for sure.

2. I love Unchained Monks, they are my favorite class :P
But they don't want to use DEX-to-damage and they have a ton of overlap with Rogues to start with for a gestalt game.
If I were to pair UnMonk with something, I'd probably look into Stalker Vigilante (Will saves, more skills, more out-of-combat utility, Shield of Blades, Cunning Feint, etc.); Tortured Soul Paladin (Will saves, lots of combat abilities and defensive capabilities); Cleric (Will saves, full casting, Domain Strike); Goliath Druid (Monks + Enlarge effects = happiness); or something like that.

[Krazzman]

Two suggestions for class

1. Slayer. More sneak attack, combat feats like crazy. Good Fort save and better HD



No! Don't do this.... this is the trappiest trap ever trapped. Slayer Sneak Attack and Rogues Sneak Attack DO NOT stack. UnRogue's would overwrite Slayer's.
If you still want something similar though go Ranger. You get basically the same stuff as Slayer + Good Will Save and Ranger Spells as well as some nice supportive abilities with the right Archetypes (Guide comes to mind).

As for more build advise:
Go for Half-Elves. Yes, you just lost a feat but the other abilities make up for it. Multitalented basically gives you the +1 skillpoint/level you just lost from switching OR it gives you the Half-Elven bonus on it.

For an UnRogue that want's more magic I would actually advise a Dex-Focused Magus.
Alternatively I believe Investigator might be a nice way to get a bit of magic and more skills.
For a more martial Rogue: Brawler. Seriously spoken the Brawler is bound to be awesome. Martial Flexibility, Close Weapon "Flurry" and some cool archetypes.

Hope this helps and remember: Spellcasting is the only "same" ability that stacks in Gestalt (for example Cleric//Paladin would only have one pool of Channel Energy)

[Psyren]

I think Brawler is an excellent suggestion as well.



But they don't want to use DEX-to-damage and they have a ton of overlap with Rogues to start with for a gestalt game.

You keep saying this and I don't understand why. Weapon Finesse, Agile, Piranha Strike, Dervish Dance etc. work just as well for them as it does for everyone else. They're viable with either a Strength or a Dexterity focus.

As for overlap - yes, they both have weak will, but full BAB combines well with sneak attack and debilitating injuries and the uMonk's strong fort helps too. Slippery Mind and Still Mind work well together too.

[Glarx]

You mentioned the Agile enchant, but is that necessary with the Unchained Rogue's dex-to-damage ability?

[dascarletm]

When I first started playing DnD, a character I wanted to do was a Monk and Rogue multiclass. Let's just say it never worked out well. However, I can see some merit in a uMonk//uRogue, go with that. You don't really need a weapon, unless you are looking for a specific weapon property, so primarily go unarmed.

You can eventually take the Dimensional Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish) line of feats with Abundant Step. You're a teleporting unarmed assassin. I think it is just awesome, and the other ki powers don't hurt much either.

I don't know what level you expect to hit in the campaign, but you'll be looking at 6 attacks with 2d10+10d6+X at 20th lvl.

I'd focus ability scores as such
Dex>Wis>Int>Con>Cha+Str

[Glarx]

Is there any way to apply a contact poison to your fists without then poisoning yourself? I imagine the answer is no.

[Krazzman]

Is there any way to apply a contact poison to your fists without then poisoning yourself? I imagine the answer is no.

The answer is yes. Be Immune to Poison or try using this set of gloves. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-poisoner-s)

[Glarx]

I'm not sure how to easily become immune to poison, but those are some neat wondrous items! Thanks, Krazzman!

[Krazzman]

I'm not sure how to easily become immune to poison, but those are some neat wondrous items! Thanks, Krazzman!

Alchemist 10 and investigator 11 give it. Druids too i believe.

[Secret Wizard]

Is there any way to apply a contact poison to your fists without then poisoning yourself? I imagine the answer is no.


Black Asp Monk or UnMonk can do it at level 1.


You keep saying this and I don't understand why. Weapon Finesse, Agile, Piranha Strike, Dervish Dance etc. work just as well for them as it does for everyone else. They're viable with either a Strength or a Dexterity focus.

It's very hard to get this across the crowd at GITP who seems to be blindly focused on "SAD is good", when attribute efficaciousness is the real objective - you want to get a good return for every point you invest.

The UnMonk has several things that make it dislike most of the options you mentioned for different reasons.

STR, to start with, is amazing for UnMonks. Easily applicable on combat maneuvers (which UnMonks are better at dabbling at rather than focusing), helps double dip STR/DEX on CMD to make them practically immune to combat maneuvers, and is a requirement for the best investment there is to damage and utility - Dragon and Jabbing Styles.

Weapon Finesse is fine, because it still preserves your STR and works well with Jabbing Style.

Piranha Strike is pretty bad as it's not a DPR gain until level 11ish. Power Attack is good if you get 1.5x damage with Dragon Style, and only from level 7th.

Agile is technically good, again, it doesn't work with the biggest DPR boosts.

Dervish Dance is terrible for a single reason which doesn't need to be stated.

And sure, a Gestalt UnMonk/Rogue could use Sneak Attack for damage and spend the rest of its resources in defense and mobility, but that's about it. And I'd hate relying so much on Sneak Attack damage to start with.

[CharonsHelper]

If you want something oddball - go with an Enigma archetype Mesmerist.

It'll shore up your will save very well, both with a high save & CHA to will saves at 2.

You get 6 level casting (albeit with a somewhat sparse spell list slanted heavily to illusion & enchantment).

You get to use your stare to get the "effect of" being invisible against one target (though only concealment until the beginning of your next turn). This is amazing - and far better than actually being invisible against the target because it works against blindsight/see invisibility/true seeing etc. - they only beat the concealment portion. (Though like a lot of illusion style things, it's worded vaguely, so expect table variation - run it past your GM first to be sure he rules it that way.) This is especially great in the early solo section where you'll likely face only 1-2 foes at a time for the most part.

You can use your Mesmerist tricks on yourself to gain illusionary flanking etc.

Crazy stealth bonuses.

Frankly - the Enigma Mesmerist on its own is pretty mediocre because while they're stealthy as all get-out, they aren't very good at actually doing anything, but combined with Unchained Rogue it'd be pretty sweet.

For this combo I'd suggest going Halfling, because they get stats in all the right places, they get +1 to all saves, and the extra AC/to hit for being small is nice as, unlike some of your other gesalt options, you would still only have mid BAB. Plus the extra +4 stealth for small size will make you virtually impossible to ever spot. (just make sure to snag the alternate racial ability to get 30ft movement)

Strength 10 (8 after Halfling Racial)
Dexterity 17 (19 after Halfling Racial)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 14 (16 after Halfling Racial)

Though possibly switch Wis & Int since your Will save will already be very solid.

[Psyren]

It's very hard to get this across the crowd at GITP who seems to be blindly focused on "SAD is good", when attribute efficaciousness is the real objective - you want to get a good return for every point you invest.

But that's precisely the point, Dex has amazing returns - more AC, more intiative, more reflex, more Acrobatics/Escape Artist, better ranged combat (use that Rope Dart and flurry away) and of course more attack/damage for a build like this.



STR, to start with, is amazing for UnMonks. Easily applicable on combat maneuvers (which UnMonks are better at dabbling at rather than focusing), helps double dip STR/DEX on CMD to make them practically immune to combat maneuvers, and is a requirement for the best investment there is to damage and utility - Dragon and Jabbing Styles.

Jabbing Style doesn't need Strength. Dragon Style does, but uMonk can't combine style feats anyway, they are ineligible for MoMS, so if you're Jabbing you're not using Dragon anyway and it's useless.



Piranha Strike is pretty bad as it's not a DPR gain until level 11ish.

So... take it at 11? :smallconfused:



Dervish Dance is terrible for a single reason which doesn't need to be stated.

Which is?



And sure, a Gestalt UnMonk/Rogue could use Sneak Attack for damage and spend the rest of its resources in defense and mobility, but that's about it. And I'd hate relying so much on Sneak Attack damage to start with.

You can use Jabbing Style and Finesse Training (or Dervish Dance + keen scimitar) on top of that and all that damage will stack.

[Secret Wizard]

Jabbing Style requires 13 STR bro.

Dervish Dance is terrible because it's limited to Scimitars which a Monk can't use at all.

Piranha Strike is not a DPR gain until level 11ish... and then it's not really good either. You have MUCH better uses for feats at that level.


But that's precisely the point, Dex has amazing returns - more AC, more intiative, more reflex, more Acrobatics/Escape Artist, better ranged combat (use that Rope Dart and flurry away) and of course more attack/damage for a build like this.

UnMonk don't range, plz, UnMonk Flying Kicks or Dimension Doors. Half of your abilities don't work with ranged weapons.

Escape Artist is the silliest skill ever to use in a Monk. What are you using it for? Escaping a grapple? You have full BAB, it will never be higher than your raw CMD which adds STR/DEX/WIS.

Acrobatics is not particularly needed. What's the difference between 14 base DEX and 18 base DEX when you can get a bonus equal to level to jumping and otherwise really high bonuses to it?

Reflex is particularly meh for class with Improved Evasion too. You get much less incentive to force passing those.

And regarding AC, the base Monk already have enough tools to get into the 75% miss chance bracket while going STR based. Going DEX based, you can get around the 85% miss chance bracket, which is good, but not worth trading out Dragon/Jabbing Style output.

I only argue for this because I've ran numbers. S18/D14 Dragon Style is good. S14/D18 Weapon Finesse Jabbing Style is good. S10/D18 ??? Style is gimmicky.

[Psyren]

Jabbing Style requires 13 STR bro.

No it doesn't... bro :smalltongue:

"Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack bonus +6, brawler's flurry class feature, or flurry of blows class feature."

Nothing there about Str.


Dervish Dance is terrible because it's limited to Scimitars which a Monk can't use at all.

Cleric dip + Crusader's Flurry, as I suggested above. And unlike Slashing Grace, DD works with flurry, giving you a ton of attacks with a 15-20 crit range and Dex to both hit and damage.



Piranha Strike is not a DPR gain until level 11ish... and then it's not really good either. You have MUCH better uses for feats at that level.

Aren't you blowing 3 feats on an extra +4d6? :smalltongue:


UnMonk don't range, plz, UnMonk Flying Kicks or Dimension Doors. Half of your abilities don't work with ranged weapons.

It's still smart to have a ranged weapon. Some enemies are dangerous or impossible to close with.



Acrobatics is not particularly needed. What's the difference between 14 base DEX and 18 base DEX when you can get a bonus equal to level to jumping and otherwise really high bonuses to it?

Tumbling is a thing too. A small investment can make you immune to AoOs, that's a lot of incoming damage easily negated.



Reflex is particularly meh for class with Improved Evasion too. You get much less incentive to force passing those.

Not every reflex save you want to avoid causes damage. Improved Evasion is useless against Mudball, Create Pit, Forcecage etc.



And regarding AC, the base Monk already have enough tools to get into the 75% miss chance bracket while going STR based. Going DEX based, you can get around the 85% miss chance bracket, which is good, but not worth trading out Dragon/Jabbing Style output.

I only argue for this because I've ran numbers. S18/D14 Dragon Style is good. S14/D18 Weapon Finesse Jabbing Style is good. S10/D18 ??? Style is gimmicky.

18/14 is already 22 Point Buy and you don't even have anything in Con, Int or Wis yet. Dump Cha all the way down to 7 and you're still at 18, making this spread useless for 15 PB games and barely viable for 20 (PFS.)

[CharonsHelper]

No it doesn't... bro :smalltongue:

"Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack bonus +6, brawler's flurry class feature, or flurry of blows class feature."

Nothing there about Str.

Not for Jabbing Style, but Jabbing Master does require you to have Power Attack which itself requires a 13 STR.

[Sayt]

I'm not sure if this was meant, but dragon style/ferocity does not give the 1:3 ratio on power attack, because it doesn't make your unarmed strikes two handed, it just makes them deal str×1.5.

Unless you are holding a weapon in two hands (or are using your one and only natural weapon) you do not get the 1:3 power attack ratio.

[Secret Wizard]

I'm not sure if this was meant, but dragon style/ferocity does not give the 1:3 ratio on power attack, because it doesn't make your unarmed strikes two handed, it just makes them deal str×1.5.

Unless you are holding a weapon in two hands (or are using your one and only natural weapon) you do not get the 1:3 power attack ratio.


Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.



A monk can apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes. A monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, although he can choose to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty on his attack roll. He can make this choice while grappling as well.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.



Benefit: While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks.


Ergo, unarmed strike is a primary natural weapon (because it adds STR and not 0.5 STR), and Dragon Style makes it 1.5x STR primary natural weapon, qualifying it for extra PA damage.

[umbrapolaris]

1- it depends what materials you are allowed, which restrictions your DM you have, what "bonus" he may gives you, etc...
2- what kind of character you want your Rogue will be, skilled-oriented, heavy stabber, multiple attacks dealer, etc...
3- what kind of role you will have in your party.

few days a go i asked the same question (planned to be an unchained rogue ) as you and i ended with that :

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502350-completed-need-to-build-a-gestalt-heavy-damage-backstabber-character (this thread will help you )

basically now i am a Talashatora monkish psionic and magic sneak attacker, with full BAB , doing +18d6 damage on each melee attacks, and cast 9th level spells :smallbiggrin:

This is quite badass and i don't even used the Rogue chassis ^^

[Psyren]

Ergo, unarmed strike is a primary natural weapon (because it adds STR and not 0.5 STR), and Dragon Style makes it 1.5x STR primary natural weapon, qualifying it for extra PA damage.

But you can't use it and Jabbing Style at the same time anyway; uMonk is not compatible with MoMS as I mentioned above. Jabbing is thus more useful for a Dex build, and will stack with both sneak attack and finesse training.

By the time you hit Jabbing Master and want PA to qualify, you'll be able to afford a Str belt even if you started with 10 Str.

[Arutema]

For a UMonk/URogue gestalt, consider the Sage Counselor monk archetype from Ultimate Intrigue, which is compatible with UMonk.

You get combat expertise at first level, ignoring the int pre-req, and you can ignore int pre-reqs on feats that require combat expertise.

Now you quality for feinting flurry from Dragon Empires Primer, which lets you substitute a feint attempt for your first flurry attack.

An unarmed strike is a light weapon, so at 3rd, you can take finesse training in it from URogue.

Now boost bluff as much as possible. Focus on feinting to get your sneak attack damage off.

When you get a style strike from UMonk, take flying kick, now you can move a bit and still flurry with the feint attempt.

Then at 6th, you get greater feint from sage counselor (such a misleading name for a feint specialist archetype), now your foe is flat footed for a whole round after your feint for more sneak attacks.

[Psyren]

Then at 6th, you get greater feint from sage counselor (such a misleading name for a feint specialist archetype), now your foe is flat footed for a whole round after your feint for more sneak attacks.

Agreed, I'm not at all sure what they were thinking as far as the name. It would have been better with something like Hidden Fist. Something that deals more with deception than just bland advice.

[Jack_Simth]

Statwise, I'm looking at something like:

Strength 10
Dexterity 17 (19 after Human Racial)
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 12

Hmm... I'd probably suggest Druid. A couple of reasons:
1) When playing solo, it helps to have an extra warm body, and the Druid has the option of an animal companion.
2) Power curves. Martial classes tend to be good at low levels and fall behind at Mid+ levels, Full Casters tend to be behind at low levels and take over at mid+ levels, while Skillful classes tend to be middle of the road at all levels. You'll want something that'll be useful later.
3) Healing. You're going to get injured at some point, and it'd be nice to have a class feature that'll fix you up.
4) You end up with all good saves. That'll be useful later.
5) You'll eventually get a rather lot of attacks on a charge via Wildshape (cat forms with Pounce). Get your initiative up, and you'll be going first... and five sneak attacks on the opening round will kill most level-appropriate opponents outright.

[Glarx]

This has been awesome! Thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions. I've still got a ways to go to figure everything out (I had misread flurry and thought it worked with two-weapon fighting, for three +4/+4/+4 attacks at level 1! :smallredface:) but this thread has definitely set me on the right direction. I'll give druid a look as well. I've never really played a druid, so that could be great fun!