Grappling Should Restrict the Grapplee's Arm

[Specter]

So to grab someone, you need a free hand, nothing new hand. That hand is restricted for as long as the grappling goes on. But I realize the target has both of his hands free, what's up with that? Are these people being grabbed by the neck or something?

So I'm houseruling the grappled condition so that one of the target's limbs is restricted (grappler's choice). This makes agrapple much more realist, and gives some characters a reason to have a hand free (if you have a free hand, you can still draw another weapon/cast spells, but with a shield not so much).

It would also give incentive to using versatile weapons; a greataxe couldn't be used in a grapple, but a battleaxe could.

Whaddyathink?

[Feuerphoenix]

Then grappling becomes even worse as it is now already. I see your point from a realism view, but I would never ever let my arm become restricted if I don't at least restrain my target...

[Mellack]

When you grapple someone, you don't necessarily get a limb. A common example would be grabbing someone by the shirt or cloak. Or the proverbial tiger by the tail.

[Specter]

Then grappling becomes even worse as it is now already. I see your point from a realism view, but I would never ever let my arm become restricted if I don't at least restrain my target...

Ypur arm is already restricted in a grapple, period. Difference now is you get to annoy your target too, how is that worse?

[gkathellar]

Trying for realism in grappling has a long history of creating hugely overcomplicated rule sets that are nothing but trouble to actually use. Moreover, no set of rules is going to adequately describe every (or arguably even most) situations with enough specificity that it achieves its intended goal of realism.

Better to keep it abstract.

[PeteNutButter]

As noted before you are not grappling with a limb. Grapple by design is like grabbing a shirt or a fistful of fur. Picture holding in football.

[Willie the Duck]

Grappling (in the way that the designers are using it) involves restricting your opponents movement, not their ability to use their arms. If you want to restrain them as well, there is the grappler feat (yes, it is ridiculous that you can't do this untrained, it is clearly a gamist construct).

So to answer your question--yes, you might very well be grabbing them by the neck. Or the shoulder, or grabbing their belt... If you want to grab their arms, there's a separate ability to do that as well (although you unrealistically need special training to do so).

[Satsujinki]

Grappling (in the way that the designers are using it) involves restricting your opponents movement, not their ability to use their arms. If you want to restrain them as well, there is the grappler feat (yes, it is ridiculous that you can't do this untrained, it is clearly a gamist construct).

So to answer your question--yes, you might very well be grabbing them by the neck. Or the shoulder, or grabbing their belt... If you want to grab their arms, there's a separate ability to do that as well (although you unrealistically need special training to do so).

Pretty much what he said but I'll add a little plus. Consider why you want to grapple in this edition? Right, give advantage, because thats what the rogue will get, and you too if yoi have the grappler feat. Also, from a flavor point, it makes more sense to me for the grappler to grapple not to lock you, but to block you in place, for other an him to hit on you. At least that's how I see the grappler

[Talionis]

Grappling is really pretty well balanced by the game rules. It has pros and cons, it sounds to me like you have grappled and restrained conditions confused. I know from a little Judo that often I would grapple someone and unless I was doing an arm bar, both their arms were loose.

Also think about how you would grab a big dog... Probably your instinct is around the midsection which keeps all of its limbs loose.

If you want to house rule something I would make a totally different mechanic than grappling and make it actual arm bars and maybe have it be a fighter maneuver, which can be picked up with a feat for a Rogue. I also would consider improving that feat to allow it to be used more often. Maybe make it be its own feat like Polearm Mastery.

[Willie the Duck]

To be a good grappler (as the OP wants it, arm barring), you need to have a great STR score, the grappler feat, and be a class that grants expertise (rogue or bard). I'm not sure that adding another feat is required for this build.

[PaxZRake]

Really depends on the style of grappling.

Traditional wrestling... and this depends on the style of wrestling, tends to attack the waist to start and the moves up to the arms or down to secure the legs for a take down.

Jiu Jitsu could be anywhere, attacking any limb with any limb. Shoot, a very traditional form of control is legs wrapped around the waist, leaving everyone's arms free.

And then you get into things I'm not super familiar with like Judo or Sambo.

[Talionis]

To be a good grappler (as the OP wants it, arm barring), you need to have a great STR score, the grappler feat, and be a class that grants expertise (rogue or bard). I'm not sure that adding another feat is required for this build.

If you read the Grappling manual which you can find on google. They are very sceptical on the importance of taking the grappling feat.

I would contemplate a Arm Bar feat to be able to replace the Grappling feat, such that you wouldn't have to take the Grappling feat. Maybe with different pros and cons, but the feat should be good enough to justify taking it. Much like Warcaster feat and Resilient Constitution both help casters keep concentration in different ways, often people take one or the other, but you can do both.

Now that said, I think a lot of people over maximize grappling. Most monsters and npc s don't even have the skill Athletism. You can probably optimize to a level where you can grapple a elder dragon, ( enlarge Goliath with expertise, etc). but that's probably really not that realistic and probably not that fun and Doesn't necessarily kill quicker or be the best in each situation.

Just a little optimization will probably allow you to grapple most things and make it more fun for the few times you can't.