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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Sorrow's Vassal: A Fighter Archetype (PEACH)



PapaQuackers
2016-10-06, 12:48 PM
First draft of an Archetype that has been mulling around in my head for fighters. Tell me what you think!


http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Sybc66-OC

Gr7mm Bobb
2016-10-06, 01:00 PM
... Link? Can't see one.

PapaQuackers
2016-10-06, 01:10 PM
I'm sorry about that, I guess my computer lagged out when I posted the link. I've fixed it in the OP.

Lalliman
2016-10-06, 01:46 PM
I don't have the rulebook at hand so I can't effectively compare how powerful it is, but here are a few issues I noticed.

1. The first effect of Burden of Our Deeds is weirdly written. Who takes the disadvantage on Wisdom saves? Is this supposed to be a positive or negative effect?

2. There exists a term for being unable to take actions: Incapacitated. You could say "Enemies affected by this are Incapacitated and can't move", for consistency with the PHB.

3. No Man is Free is cheap without some sort of save. Imagine having this used against you. If you would feel cheated having something used against you, you should probably reconsider the design.

Overall, the concept is interesting. I have trouble estimating what the effect of Weight of Sorrow will be, though. It'll allow for things like two-handed rapiers, which is rather silly, and it'll enable using Great Weapon Master with any melee weapon, which might encourage dual-wielding. Then again, using Great Weapon Master slows your accumulation of Stones, so maybe it shouldn't be used.

Now that I think about it, you should probably say that every one-handed weapon gains the versatile property. Also note that this archetype is completely unusable by small-sized characters, because they can't wield Heavy weapons. You might not consider that a problem, but it's seems worthy of mentioning.

PapaQuackers
2016-10-06, 01:52 PM
I don't have the rulebook at hand so I can't effectively compare how powerful it is, but here are a few issues I noticed.

1. The first effect of Burden of Our Deeds is weirdly written. Who takes the disadvantage on Wisdom saves? Is this supposed to be a positive or negative effect?

2. There exists a term for being unable to take actions: Incapacitated. You could say "Enemies affected by this are Incapacitated and can't move", for consistency with the PHB.

3. No Man is Free is cheap without some sort of save. Imagine having this used against you. If you would feel cheated having something used against you, you should probably reconsider the design.

Overall, the concept is interesting. I have trouble estimating what the effect of Weight of Sorrow will be, though. It'll allow for things like two-handed rapiers, which is rather silly, and it'll enable using Great Weapon Master with any melee weapon, which might encourage dual-wielding. Then again, using Great Weapon Master slows your accumulation of Stones, so maybe it shouldn't be used.

Now that I think about it, you should probably say that every one-handed weapon gains the versatile property. Also note that this archetype is completely unusable by small-sized characters, because they can't wield Heavy weapons. You might not consider that a problem, but it's seems worthy of mentioning.

1. I've received similar criticisms for the first ability and have attempted to curtail it about removing the finesse feature from weapons that you wield.

2. I've worded that one more properly, it's now clear the person who you inflict sorrow upon gets disadvantage on wisdom and attack rolls.

3. Thanks for the incapacitated tidbit. 5e is so loose with status effects I forget they actually have them sometimes.

4. Will change it to one handed, thanks for that.

5. Small people are far too happy to be sorrowful (I forgot about the weird disadvantage rule).

Lalliman
2016-10-06, 02:14 PM
5. Small people are far too happy to be sorrowful (I forgot about the weird disadvantage rule).
It's indeed pretty hard to imagine a halfling, gnome or goblin taking this class, so I guess it's not really a problem :smalltongue:

PapaQuackers
2016-10-06, 02:21 PM
It's indeed pretty hard to imagine a halfling, gnome or goblin taking this class, so I guess it's not really a problem :smalltongue:

If you have any other thoughts let me know. I always appreciate your feedback while I toil away in obscurity.

PapaQuackers
2016-10-07, 05:28 AM
Did a complete overhaul of how the sorrow points mechanic works, please let me know what you think.

StarvingGamer
2016-10-07, 10:55 PM
The stone skills seem a bit underpowered? Especially for such a steep penalty. Giving yourself a -2/-2 to do potentially 2d4 damage if the opponent doesn't save and also attacks twice in lieu of just swinging your weapon is extremely underwhelming. The concept of a class that penalizes itself to do cool things is certainly interesting though. I might consider actually rolling your stone abilities into your attack action so you can still do damage and also get a cool effect while continually debuffing yourself. Of course the actual effects would have to change, or you could possibly restrict yourself to one attack per turn and also do a stone?

The one stone ability feels a bit odd, if only because you'd want to reduce their wis so you could smack them easier with another stone skill but you won't be able to use another stone skill by the time they've recovered. Maybe I'm just misreading the intent there.

Also if you just indicate that you clear one stone at the beginning of your turn, then it will never apply to the stones you gain on that turn.

An old friend makes the balance tough. Granted it's at lvl 18 where everything is getting real wacky but if you remove the penalty then you have to be extremely careful about how powerful your stone abilities are. I'm not sure what the solution is here but it's something to consider.

All in all a very interesting concept. Keep working at it.

Also Misery Loves Company seems potentially insane like if you get hit with a Disintegrate and bounce it onto anyone. You should probably indicate some limits on target, at least to a creature you can see, but also really think about the balance there.

PapaQuackers
2016-10-08, 10:14 AM
The stone abilities are a bit week but I had to keep action surge and multiclassing in mind. Ill tweak it some more later.

PapaQuackers
2016-10-10, 10:13 AM
A couple of abilities have been revamped entirely, and some of the language has been cleaned up.

Please let me know what you think.

StarvingGamer
2016-10-20, 03:35 PM
I'm still pondering the usefulness of the stone skills, especially later when a fighter can swing 3x per turn. Disadvantage on wis saves or 3 weapon attacks.