Fixing the Planar Binding Spell series for 3.5 [PEACH]

[lonewolf1210]

I really like the idea of the Planar Binding series, but unfortunately the spell as written is horribly broken. On one hand you can get stupidly powerful outsiders with them but on the other hand using them on elementals is a total waste. And if you go for templated creatures, the problems just increase.

I found that the main issue is that the spells limit is HD instead of CR. Without redesigning the whole spell from the ground up, I have thought about a couple of changes that both decrease the raw power of the spell series, and increases its flexibility:


- Instead of HD, the limit of which creature can be called is based of of CR.
- The CR limit is [(spell-level of the planar binding *2) - 3]
- The Planar Binding spell can be prepared and cast at any spell level of 5 and higher.



The result is that the highest CR you have access to ever is your level-2. The level 5 version is a bit better than the normal lesser planar binding, but the normal HUGE powerjump from lesser planar binding to planar binding is gone(getting Astral Devas, Trumpet Archons, Glabrezus, etc at lvl11 is just insane) and from there on it scales slowly but surely.
It removes all CR16 and higher creatures from binding pre-epic but you can get the biggest elementals and other outsiders with high HD but low CR at reasonable levels.

it doesnt fix all the problems(noble Djinn are still an issue) but I believe this is a step in the right direction.


I would appreciate some feedback.

[Deepbluediver]

It seems like it would help a little at least, but CR can be almost just a bjorked up as most of the other magic-related stuff in 3.5: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-450833.html

[lonewolf1210]

Note that I have been designing this for use in a solo campaign where I will be the player, and Im asking for input before talking to the DM to approve it. So my goal is to be able to use the spell without breaking the game, and I hope this adjustment lets me do that.

Yes, CR is also not perfect, but its a way better limit than HD.

[JoshuaZ]

If one's main goal is to prevent abuse, then I would suggest limiting by both CR and HD. So add your restriction on top. It is true that under this elementals will still not be great for the spells, and I don't know a good way of fixing that.

[Eldan]

The restriction I included was that you always have to do a favour to the creature you summon of equal value of what you demand. No charisma checks or anything about it. That generally limited its use to out-of-combat emergencies.

[rel]

The restriction I included was that you always have to do a favour to the creature you summon of equal value of what you demand. No charisma checks or anything about it. That generally limited its use to out-of-combat emergencies.

That still allows for the summoning of an efreet and offering to make wishes on its behalf if it gives you access to its wishes.
Heck my default deal is 'give me access to your wishes and I'll use them to boost all your stats and mine by +3' thematic, cool and not actually game breaking.

[ace rooster]

Planar binding is no more broken than dominate person + teleport. That can get you epic wizard casting!

Seriously though, the balancing factor for planar binding is that they require cooperation from the setting. Thinking that powerful outsiders don't have defences is as insane as assuming that an epic wizard doesn't have defences, and so my silly example works. Those defences don't have to appear on the character sheet. They can be a circle of friends of similar or greater power who will slap down anyone stupid enough to try it. For creatures with wish as a spell like, it can be as inane as a contingent wish to remove them from the binding. It could also be a barrage of contingent wishes that apply every debuff under the sun before teleporting the binder and their family and friends into an antimagic lava pool with an angry great wyrm red dragon.

Planar binding is kidnap. If the players really want to kidnap something that powerful, let them live with the consequences. Starting planar wars makes for a fun campaign. Maybe let them roll a low DC wisdom check or knowledge the planes to give them a rough understanding of what those consequences would be. You can generally get away with the occasional binding if the outsider is not too important and agrees that the task is important. Elementals are generally not important enough to be missed too badly for a while, so are far safer (in my settings at least).

I don't think it needs further balancing. It is not abusable if the DM is doing their job. It might make sense to include in the spell that it will probably have consequences if used lightly, and have guidelines for what they can be.

[lonewolf1210]

Planar binding is no more broken than dominate person + teleport. That can get you epic wizard casting!

Seriously though, the balancing factor for planar binding is that they require cooperation from the setting. Thinking that powerful outsiders don't have defences is as insane as assuming that an epic wizard doesn't have defences, and so my silly example works. Those defences don't have to appear on the character sheet. They can be a circle of friends of similar or greater power who will slap down anyone stupid enough to try it. For creatures with wish as a spell like, it can be as inane as a contingent wish to remove them from the binding. It could also be a barrage of contingent wishes that apply every debuff under the sun before teleporting the binder and their family and friends into an antimagic lava pool with an angry great wyrm red dragon.

Planar binding is kidnap. If the players really want to kidnap something that powerful, let them live with the consequences. Starting planar wars makes for a fun campaign. Maybe let them roll a low DC wisdom check or knowledge the planes to give them a rough understanding of what those consequences would be. You can generally get away with the occasional binding if the outsider is not too important and agrees that the task is important. Elementals are generally not important enough to be missed too badly for a while, so are far safer (in my settings at least).

I don't think it needs further balancing. It is not abusable if the DM is doing their job. It might make sense to include in the spell that it will probably have consequences if used lightly, and have guidelines for what they can be.

The problem with that kind of reasoning is that not only makes it the spell not abuseable, it also makes the spell not useable. Yes you can do it, but its just another way of banning the spells outright.

I want the spell to be useable. I want a spell that can be used by players without breaking the game and without the DM having to think of a roundabout way to punish them for using it.

[rel]

Also if you ignore planar binding and just consider the wider setting you are creating then running monsters as co-authors of the evil overlord list with more contingency plans than the god damned batman is a bad idea.
Doing that does not result in a world that facilitates kicking down the door and killing things to take their stuff. It encourages sitting in a rope trick under a plethora of divination blocking spells waiting for someone to blink so you can scry and fry them.
It leads to a legitimate question of why the big bad hasn't trivially killed off the party already since he totally would.
It leads to a game called dungeons and dragons featuring absolutely no dragons because they are far too powerful for the likes of the PC's.