Appearance scores for Doppelgangers? Advise plz

[bookkeeping guy]

So a lot of different systems and homebrews in the last few years have distinguished charisma and appearance from one another...

No problem there..

Here's where it gets confusing though.

Say you are playing a doppelganger as a character or its in the team or as an adversary...

A doppelganger or a modified version of one copies its victims or those it encounters. So if it copies someone with a reallly high appearance score...is it for all intents and purposes fully achieving that high appearance score its copying? Where's the limit on this?

Also say it levels up and gets much stronger...wouldn't it normally have say 2 or 3 'saved' appearances? I think it would be reasonable for it to have more than one appearance kit saved but think it would be overpowered to too have more than say above 3.

It would theoretically make sense that an experienced or elder doppelganger would use 2 saved appearances as 'backups'.

I would like some advise on tweaking this. It would be fun to use a playable race or for some interesting espionage or anti-spy campaigns probably including warring etc.

Notes above based on legitimate ability in doppelgangers; Change Shape (Su): A doppelganger can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. In humanoid form, the doppelganger loses its natural attacks. A doppelganger can remain in its humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a doppelganger reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.

[bookkeeping guy]

another issue to is if shapechange also covers clothes or not?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Changing shape does not create clothing unless it says it does (so an elder dragon who turns into a human on the fly will be nude unless he either uses magic to produce an illusion/create clothing or has a magic item that will do so for him, of which there are numerous options).

As far as the Appearance score, it's a physical stat, like Str or Dex, so it would change with your new form's appearance. However, keep that in mind when tweaking with houserules. The BoEF discusses keying certain spellcasting DCs off of your Appearance, so anything that raises your Appearance stat will raise those DCs.

[Doc_Maynot]

Personally our group uses the average of Con and Cha for App (Rounded up). Since Con is how well your body is, and Charisma is how good you can flaunt what you got. And we let Disguise checks grant a bonus to App based on the result (IIRC it is +1, per 10 in the result to a max of a +5 circumstance bonus). So it's base App would be 13, with anywhere from +2 to +3 based on its disguise check, so between 15 and 16 when disguised. If it can read a person's mind to find out their ideal it could be, it'd be between 16 and 17 App. But, that is just how my group handles it.

[Darth Ultron]

A doppelganger or a modified version of one copies its victims or those it encounters. So if it copies someone with a reallly high appearance score...is it for all intents and purposes fully achieving that high appearance score its copying? Where's the limit on this?

Also say it levels up and gets much stronger...wouldn't it normally have say 2 or 3 'saved' appearances?

A doppelgangers ability scores don't change:The creature retains the ability scores of its original form. So if the doppelganger has a charisma of 14 and copies someone with a charisma of 18....it would still have a charisma of 14.

Remember charisma is more then just looks and appearance. It's possible to ''look good'', but have average or little or ''no'' charisma.

And I guess a doppelganger could ''save'' appearances..like hundreds of them, if they wanted too. They just need to remember what the person looked like.

[Inevitability]

Changing shape does not create clothing unless it says it does (so an elder dragon who turns into a human on the fly will be nude unless he either uses magic to produce an illusion/create clothing or has a magic item that will do so for him, of which there are numerous options).

If he's really an elder dragon, there's a third option (https://m.popkey.co/b3077f/7zLqg.gif).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If he's really an elder dragon, there's a third option (https://m.popkey.co/b3077f/7zLqg.gif).He'd still transform into the buff, no matter how buff he is.

[Name1]

My assumption would be that the actual appearance scores don't change, but you'd still need to make a spot check to notice the difference (possibly minor imperfections). You'd basically emulate the appearance score via disguises or something similar. I don't have the BoEF on hand and don't know much about it, but is there per chance a chapter on mundane appearance enhancers, like make-up?