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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class The Bloodpriest (a sneaky divine caster base class) PEACH



OttoVonBigby
2016-10-08, 08:57 AM
Any feedback is welcome, but particularly, I'm wondering what tier this would be considered to be. My system is mainly 3.5 with a few PF-ish touches, as you'll see.


In my setting I don't allow beguilers; arcane is overrepresented, and I like all my classes to have some archetypal reality, be it history- or genre-based, and beguiler lacks that IMO. I also felt that "stealthy arcane" was adequately represented, but the closest thing to "stealthy divine" was the (eyeroll) ranger. I found StoryKeeper's Blood Priest class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?98925-The-Blood-Priest-(PrC)-PEACH) and I liked the fluff, but wanted to go a different route mechanically. (I also borrowed a couple of idea from Justdamohr's Savage Priest class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?58450-Savage-Priests-A-Stealth-Based-Spell-Caster-Class), and you will notice a couple of beguiler and PF inquisitor class features.) As I see it, this is not as strong as cleric or druid, but not vastly weaker either. I expect it would be a bit reminiscent of the dread necromancer in play style (minus the minionmancy, of course), or maybe the PF Witch.


In the age before mortality, wars were brutal and unending. The immortal ancestors of elf-kin nurtured undying enmities, plotted unending revenge schemes…and pursued ever more desperate means of attaining a strategic advantage. In this time before wizardry and organized religion, the power of nature dominated—and a form of magic that channeled that power through living blood emerged. This blood-fueled spellcasting, rejected by civilized peoples and forbidden by druidic orders, could have faded into the mists of history—but for the enduring principle of wanton savagery.

These ancient, forbidden energies still linger in all creatures, and the bloodpriest can tap their power. Many of the world's more unsavory mages (or would-be mages) employ blood as part of their rituals, but only the bloodpriest understands blood's inherent power. Their art is so widely considered taboo that they learn secrecy and subterfuge as a way of life.

THE BLOODPRIEST
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/49/f0/cd/49f0cd3b05f9bbecde4ebfbc0b4d35e6.jpg


Lvl
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
0
1
2
3
4
5
6


1st
+0
+2
+0
+2
Bloodpriest somatics, Track
3








2nd
+1
+3
+0
+3
Cloaked casting (+1 DC), surprise casting
4
0+d







3rd
+2
+3
+1
+3
Blood control, cunning initiative
4
1+d







4th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Bloodletting, iron stomach, scent
5
2+d
0+d






5th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Heartsense, pure blood, trackless step
5
3+d
1+d






6th
+4
+5
+2
+5
Surprise casting (move action), transfusion, uncanny dodge
5
3+d
2+d






7th
+5
+5
+2
+5
Bloodletting (swift anoint), camouflage, poisonous blood
6
3+d
2+d
0+d





8th
+6/+1
+6
+2
+6
Arterial spray, cloaked casting (+2 to overcome SR)
6
3+d
3+d
1+d





9th
+6/+1
+6
+3
+6
Blood shaman, improved uncanny dodge, transfusion +2
6
3+d
3+d
2+d





10th
+7/+2
+7
+3
+7
Bloodbathe, keen scent, mettle
6
3+d
3+d
2+d
0+d




11th
+8/+3
+7
+3
+7
Arterial spray (range +10'), ocular spray
6
3+d
3+d
3+d
1+d




12th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Bloodbathe (inhaled & immunities), transfusion +2
6
3+d
3+d
3+d
2+d




13th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Hide in plain sight, reflex bleeding
6
3+d
3+d
3+d
2+d
0+d



14th
+10/+5
+9
+4
+9
Arterial spray (range +10'), bloodbathe (acid & cold resist, disease immunity), cloaked casting (+2 DC)
6
3+d
3+d
3+d
3+d
1+d



15th
+11/+6/+1
+9
+5
+9
Bloodletting (immediate anoint), transfusion +2
6
4+d
3+d
3+d
3+d
2+d



16th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10

6
4+d
4+d
3+d
3+d
2+d
0+d


17th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Arterial spray (range +10'), bloodbathe (true seeing & immunities)
6
4+d
4+d
4+d
3+d
3+d
1+d


18th
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Transfusion +2
6
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d
3+d
2+d


19th
+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Bloodbathe (immunities)
6
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d
3+d


20th
+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Bloodbathe (double duration, save bonus), cloaked casting (overcomes SR)
6
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d
4+d




Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a bloodpriest can cast, how many spells she can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. Constitution not only helps bloodpriests in terms of survivability, but several of their blood-related class abilities (such as poisonous blood) are made more potent by a high Constitution modifier. Since many of their class abilities involve combat, a good Strength or Dexterity score is helpful, and they should not have poor Intelligence scores due to their need for wilderness skills.

Ideal Races: Savage races, such as orcs and goblinoids, are among the likeliest to learn the bloodpriest's arts. Ogre magi in particular make formidable bloodpriests. In some such communities, bloodpriests are respected and/or feared as powerful mystics; some of their spells make them effective enforcers of orthodoxy. In other savage communities, they are virtual outcasts, grudgingly permitted to accompany parties of warriors on hunts. Thus, many savage bloodpriests wear elaborate masks or otherwise conceal their identities from their fellows. Bloodpriests have roles of prominence in kopru, lhosk, and nezumi communities.

Some wood elves also embrace the ancient and savage to such an extent that they might become bloodpriests. Naturally, vampires of any sort find the bloodpriest style of spellcasting well-suited to their proclivities.

Inappropriate Races: Gnome and halfling bloodpriests are rare, and would be considered aberrant in their communities.

Origins: Bloodpriests are usually trained in the ancient mysteries by elder members of a cult or tribal order. That being said, the magic that bloodpriests call upon originates from shed blood itself, not from the elaborate dances or scrawled patterns commonly employed by bloodpriests; this means that a rare few bloodpriests are self-trained, having experimented with bloodcasting in the hope of unleashing bloodpriest magic.

Alignment: Bloodpriests tend toward chaos and evil, though many are nonevil and some are lawful. Even in the uncivilized lands from which they originate, bloodpriests tend to have a grim reputation. Good bloodpriests are unlikely outside of communities where they are the sole spiritual leaders (for instance, in the most backward human tribes of the north, where the scarcity of game contributes to the locals' sense of blood as a truly holy substance).

Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bloodpriests are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kukri, scimitar, shortbow, and composite shortbow. Aquatic bloodpriests are also proficient with the trident. Bloodpriests are proficient with light and medium armor, but not with shields.

Spells: Bloodpriest spells are cast as divine spells; their spell list contains mainly divine spells (selected from the cleric, druid, and ranger spell lists), plus a small number of arcane spells. Their spell list is heavy on divination and necromancy, and low on illusion and summoning. See below for the bloodpriest's spell list. To cast a spell, a bloodpriest must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bloodpriest's spell is 10 + the spell level + the bloodpriest's Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a bloodpriest can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given in the table above. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score.

A bloodpriest prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A bloodpriest may prepare and cast any spell on the bloodpriest spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Domain and Domain Spells: A bloodpriest's philosophies and/or beliefs influence her alignment, what magic she can perform, her values, and how others see her. However, bloodpriests are less reliant on faith (and especially deities or other forces larger than themselves), gaining their divine power from a more immediate, if objectively less cosmically powerful, source: their own blood. A bloodpriest chooses one domain to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities. A bloodpriest can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if her alignment matches that domain.

A bloodpriest's domain gives her access to a domain spell at each spell level she can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. If a domain spell is not on the bloodpriest spell list, a bloodpriest can prepare it only in her domain spell slot.

I am very much sold on them having a domain. (I don't like that such a huge mechanic in 3.5 is exclusive to clerics and a few PrCs.) Also, I permit the Retraining variant rule from PHB2, so a bloodpriest could retrain their domain, with DM approval.
Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A bloodpriest can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own. Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Bloodcasting: A bloodpriest can only cast bloodpriest spells when at least one of her palms is coated in freshly-shed blood. Freshly-shed blood in contact with her person is considered to be her divine focus for the purposes of spells that require one. For the purposes of bloodpriest abilities, freshly-shed blood is that which has been exposed to air for up to four minutes, unless it has been collected in a large tub or similar container. Most bloodpriests keep a sharp eye out for mice, rats, and other small creatures to power their bloodcasting, preferring not to rely completely on their own blood (or that of allies). However, some bloodpriests use leeches to facilitate more efficient bloodcasting. Blood does not replace material components for bloodpriest spells, even inexpensive material components.

One hit point of damage is sufficient to enable bloodcasting. A bloodpriest can bleed herself as a free action, or an adjacent ally as a move action, for 1 point of damage. A bloodpriest need not be armed in either case, provided that she has teeth or fingernails.

Bloodpriest Somatics: Because their source of magic predates even language, bloodpriests often require a mere gesture to cast spells. A bloodpriest gains Silent Spell as a bonus feat at 1st level, but a bloodpriest's silent spell does not use up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. The bloodpriest may only apply this feat to her bloodpriest spells.

Bloodhound (Ex): Bloodpriests attune their senses for the sake of hunting. At first level, they gain Track as a bonus feat.

Cloaked Casting (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a bloodpriest's spells become more effective when cast against an unwary foe. A bloodpriest gains a +1 bonus to the spell's save DC when she casts a spell that targets any foe who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not).

At 8th level, a bloodpriest gains a +2 bonus on rolls made to overcome the spell resistance of any affected target. At 14th level, the bonus to the spell's save DC increases to +2. At 20th level, a bloodpriest becomes able to automatically overcome the spell resistance of any affected target.

This ability can apply to spells a bloodpriest can cast by virtue of levels in another spellcasting class, not only to bloodpriest spells.

Surprise Casting (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, when a bloodpriest successfully uses the Bluff skill to feint in combat, her target is denied its Dexterity bonus (if it has one) to AC for the next melee attack she makes against it or the next spell she casts. She must remain in melee with the target, and the attack must be made or the spell cast on or before the bloodpriest's next turn. The target is not considered flat-footed and therefore can make attacks of opportunity against the bloodpriest if she does not cast defensively.

At 6th level, a bloodpriest gains the ability to feint in combat as a move action instead of a standard action. If she has the Improved Feint feat, she can now feint in combat as a swift action.

This ability can apply to spells a bloodpriest can cast by virtue of levels in another spellcasting class, not only to bloodpriest spells.

Blood Control (Su): Bloodpriests learn to divert the flow of their own blood to a limited degree, allowing them to ignore damage and heal faster. At level 3, a bloodpriest gains damage reduction of 1 + Wis modifier/- (minimum DR of 1; maximum DR of half the bloodpriest's class level, rounded down). Blood control only functions while the bloodpriest is conscious, but it requires no action.

Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, a bloodpriest adds her Wisdom modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier.

Bloodletting (Su): A bloodpriest's mystical connection to blood allows her to learn to draw blood from opponents. Any weapon wielded by a bloodpriest of 4th level deals 1 point of bleed damage per 4 bloodpriest class levels when it hits a creature. Ranged weapons wielded by the bloodpriest bestow the bleed damage on their projectiles. Multiple hits increase the bleed damage (but the bloodletting effect stacks with itself only, not with other bleed effects.) Bleeding creatures take the bleed damage at the start of their turns, and damage reduction does not apply against this bleed damage. Bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (so, for example, stabilize does not end the bleed damage, but the vigor spells do). A critical hit does not multiply the bleed damage. Creatures immune to critical hits, and creatures without blood or a similar circulatory substance, are immune to the bleed damage dealt by this weapon.

At 7th level, a bloodpriest can anoint an ally's weapon (within the bloodpriest's reach) with her own blood as a swift action to grant her bloodletting ability to that weapon for its next attack. After the anointed weapon scores a hit, it loses the bloodletting ability until the bloodpriest anoints it again. At 15th level, anointing becomes an immediate action for the bloodpriest.

Iron Stomach (Ex): At 4th level, a bloodpriest gains immunity to the nauseated and sickened conditions.

True Bloodhound (Ex): Bloodpriests gain the Scent special quality (see page 314 of the Monster Manual) at 4th level.

Heartsense (Su): A bloodpriest's blood speaks to the blood of others, giving her insight into their hearts. Beginning at 5th level, a bloodpriest functions at all times, even when unconscious, as if under the effects of a detect attitude spell (Dragon #323, pg. 70), except that she can only detect the attitude of creatures with blood or blood-like circulatory fluid. (The ability does not work on elemental creatures; however, it works on all plant creatures with sap, certain undead, constructs reliant on lubrication, etc.) The bloodpriest uses her class level as her caster level for the purposes of determining the effect's range.

Pure Blood (Ex): At 5th level, a bloodpriest gains immunity to all poisons and all diseases except supernatural ones such as lyncanthropy and mummy rot.

Trackless Step (Ex): Bloodpriests gain Trackless Step at 5th level.

Transfusion (Su): At 6th level, a bloodpriest's unique spellcasting expands in impact, but only when she is wounded. When using cure or inflict spells while at less than maximum hit points, she adds a number of hit points equal to her Wisdom modifier X her Constitution modifier (minimum 1 each) to the total healed or damaged. For example, if Carrie has a Constitution modifier of +2 and a Wisdom modifier of +4, she always adds 8 to the roll result from any cure or inflict spell unless she is at maximum HP. Mass cure or inflict spells add the bonus healing/damage to each target.

Furthermore, when wounded, a bloodpriest may (as a free action) deliberately take 2 points of Constitution damage to reduce the metamagic level increase of a metamagic feat by 1. This damage is taken at the moment she casts the spell, but the bloodpriest must choose the spell to be affected by transfusion when she prepares her spells. The level increase can't be reduced to less than 1. At every three levels thereafter, a bloodpriest can take 2 additional points of Constitution damage to reduce the level increase by an additional 1. Thus, at level 18, she can take 8 points of Con damage to reduce the total metamagic level increase of a spell by 4. This ability works only on the total level increase of a spell; thus, at level 6, a bloodpriest can't add the Empower and Extend metamagic feats and pay 4 Con to reduce the metamagic increase of each by one, thus leading to a total level increase of 1 instead of 3. Instead, the bloodpriest can apply this ability to the combined cost of 3 and reduce it to 2. Creatures immune to Constitution damage, such as undead, cannot gain this benefit of the transfusion ability.

Example: Carrie wants to cast an Empowered inflict critical wounds. At the moment she prepares her spells, she decides that she will use the transfusion class feature on this spell. Thus, she prepares the spell in a 5th level spell slot, rather than in a 6th level spell slot. Afterwards, Carrie can't cast this Empowered inflict critical wounds until she is wounded, or wounds herself. At that moment, she can cast the transfusion-affected spell and suffer 2 Con damage. The whole process has allowed her to save a 6th level spell slot.

Carrie could even prepare a Quickened inflict critical wounds. This spell normally requires a 8th level spell slot, but, by deciding when she prepares her spells that she will use Transfusion for 4 points of Con damage, she can reduce the level of the spell slot required from 8th level to 6th level. Whenever she is wounded or wounds herself, she can cast this spell and instantly suffer 4 Con damage in the process.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level, a bloodpriest retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a bloodpriest already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Camouflage (Ex): A bloodpriest of 7th level or higher can use the Stealth skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn't grant cover or concealment.

Poisonous Blood (Ex): A bloodpriest's magic runs ever deeper as she grows in power. At 7th level, a bloodpriest's blood becomes permanently poisonous to all other creatures, but only when fresh. A bloodpriest may wound herself with any number of hit points of lethal damage (or use an existing wound that dealt hit point damage) in order to coat a weapon with her poisonous blood. Coating a weapon in such a fashion is a standard action, whether the bloodpriest wounds herself to do so or coats it via other means. Bloodpriest poison has the same statistics as bebilith venom (initial damage 1d6 Con, secondary damage 2d6 Con), except that it functions through ingestion or injury and the Fortitude save DC is 10 + 1/2 the bloodpriest's class level + the bloodpriest's Constitution modifier.

Arterial Spray (Su): At 8th level, a bloodpriest learns conscious control over her own bleeding. A bloodpriest may wound herself with any number of hit points of lethal damage (or use an existing wound that dealt hit point damage) in order to make a poisonous ranged touch attack with her blood as a standard action. This attack has a range equal to the bloodpriest's base speed, and grants her blood the contact poison attribute.

The range of this attack increases by 10' at 11th level, 14th level, and 17th level.

Blood Shaman (Su): At 9th level, a bloodpriest's magical connection to blood extends beyond herself. Once per minute, she can cast bleed or stabilize as an immediate action. This casting does not count normally against her spells per day; instead, she may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + her Wisdom modifier.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 9th level, a bloodpriest gains improved uncanny dodge.

Bloodbathe (Su): A bloodpriest of 10th level can coat herself from head to toe in fresh blood in order to gain magical benefits. Bathing in blood requires 10 minutes and, if distracted, a Concentration check as if casting a 6th level spell. This ability requires a liter of blood, and if the bloodpriest uses her own blood, she takes 4 points of Constitution damage. (Creatures immune to Constitution damage, such as undead, must use the blood of another creature to gain the effects of bloodbathing.) To drain blood from another creature, the bloodpriest must succeed at a Survival check of DC 13; the bloodpriest may not take 20 on this check. Whether using her own blood or another creature's, the process of draining the blood is included in the 10 minutes of bathing time. Armor and equipment worn by the bloodpriest has no effect on the bloodbath.

The bloodbath is magically bound to the character's exterior and thus is not washed away by immersion in mundane fluid or by exposure to normal damage-dealing spells unless the bloodpriest wishes it to be. (Certain spells or enchanted fluids can end the effect.) Cancelling the entire effect of a bloodbath is an immediate action for the bloodpriest. If a bloodpriest bathes in blood a second time while the first bloodbath is active, the previous bloodbath is cancelled. A bloodbath is a magical effect that is suppressed within an antimagic field, and is detectable via detect magic (strong aura of Necromancy and Transmutation).

Unless otherwise indicated, all bloodbath effects last for one hour, after which the bloodbath loses its magical effects. When bathed in blood:
• a bloodpriest is considered to have a strong scent for the purposes of other creatures' scent ability. The bloodpriest's own scent ability is unaffected.
• a bloodpriest gains a circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks equal to her Wisdom modifier.
• a bloodpriest gains a deflection bonus to armor class equal to her Wisdom modifier. If the blood came from a slain opponent, the armor class bonus is instead equal to the opponent's Constitution modifier (maximum twice the bloodpriest's Wisdom modifier).
• a bloodpriest can wound herself with any number of hit points of lethal damage, or use ocular spray, in order to magically infuse her bloodbath with a contact and ingested version of the poison in her blood. She may choose to poison opponents via any number of unarmed strikes, grapple checks, or touch attacks for the duration of the bloodbath; additionally, any opponent that bites or swallows the bloodpriest is subject to the poison. . She may add this infusion while preparing her bloodbath or at any time during its effective duration; in the latter case, infusing her bloodbath is a move action, however she accomplishes it (the normal swift action for ocular spray becomes part of the infusion's move action).
• a bloodpriest gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.

At higher levels, when bathed in blood:
• a bloodpriest of 12th level or higher gains immunity to fatigue, exhaustion, and paralysis.
• a bloodpriest of 12th level or higher can infuse her bloodbath with an inhaled version of the poison in her blood, either during the bloodbath's preparation, or afterward as a move action. A faint reddish haze with a coppery aroma spreads to fill the volume of a 10-foot cube; all targets within that area are affected by her poisonous blood, and must make a new save each round. The affected area follows the bloodpriest's movements and can be cancelled by the bloodpriest as an immediate action (reactivating it requires another move action). A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the haze in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the haze in 1 round.
• a bloodpriest of 14th level gains acid and cold resistance 20, and immunity to all disease including supernatural diseases.
• a bloodpriest of 17th level gains immunity to critical hits, energy drain, and sneak attacks, as well as true seeing (as the spell of a caster level equal to the bloodpriest's class level).
• a bloodpriest of 19th level gains immunity to acid, cold, and polymorph.
• a bloodpriest of 20th level doubles the duration of all bloodbath effects and gains a resistance bonus to saving throws equal to the AC bonus listed above. In addition, for the duration of its effect, the bloodbath cannot be removed except by an antimagic field or by cleaning the bloodpriest's body (rubbing, scraping, etc.) with a +3 or better melee weapon.

Uncanny Bloodhound (Ex): Bloodpriests gain keen scent (as the shark ability) at 10th level. This ability functions in air or water.

Mettle (Ex): At 10th level, a bloodpriest can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If she makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the bloodpriest is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless bloodpriest does not gain the benefit of the mettle ability.

Ocular Spray (Su): At 11th level, a bloodpriest's conscious control over her own bleeding improves. She may squirt blood from her eyes as a swift action. She may make the same ranged touch attack as with her arterial spray ability, except that the attack becomes a swift action. She may also use this blood to coat a weapon, essentially removing the need to wound herself to do so. However, each use of ocular spray leaves the bloodpriest blinded until she uses an immediate action to wipe her eyes clear. A bloodpriest may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her class level plus her Constitution modifier. Ocular spray may be used in the same round as arterial spray.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a bloodpriest of 13th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Reflex Bleeding (Su): A bloodpriest of 13th level becomes so attuned to her own blood that she may use either her arterial spray or her ocular spray as an immediate action. Moreover, she need not be conscious to use either (or both) spray abilities. If a hostile creature subject to the bloodpriest's heartsense enters the range of the heartsense, she is aware of it and may use a spray ability as an immediate action; if she is unconscious when this occurs, she wakes up.


0 Bleed; Candlelight; Create Water; Cure Minor Wounds; Detect Magic; Detect Poison; Inflict Minor Wounds; Know Direction; Light; Mending; Naturewatch; No Light; Preserve Organ; Purify Food and Drink; Read Magic; Resistance; Silvered Weapon; Slash Tongue; Spark; Styptic; Touch of Fatigue

1 Anarchic Water; Angry Ache; Axiomatic Water; Bane; Blade of Blood; Blood Wind; Bloodletting; Breath of the Jungle; Burning Hands; Camouflage; Catsfeet; Cause Fear; Command; Compel Hostility; Comprehend Languages; Create Air; Cure Light Wounds; Curse Water; Cursed Blade; Deathwatch; Decompose Corpse; Delay Disease; Detect Animals or Plants; Detect Attitude; Detect Chaos; Detect Dragonmark; Detect Evil; Detect Fire; Detect Good; Detect Guilt; Detect Law; Detect Snares and Pits; Detect Taint; Detect Undead; Detect Violence; Diagnose Disease; Dispel Ward; Doom; Drug Resistance; Ebon Eyes; Endure Elements; Entropic Shield; Extract Drug; Glimpse of Fear; Grave Strike; Handfire; Heartache; Hemorrhage; Hide from Undead; Hunter's Mercy; Ice Gauntlet; Impede; Incite; Infernal Healing; Inflict Light Wounds; Inhibit; Ironguts; Know Protections; Lightfoot; Locate Water; Magic Fang; Magic Stone; Magic Weapon; Necrotic Awareness; Obscuring Mist; Omen of Peril; Pass without Trace; Protection from Chaos; Protection from Evil; Protection from Good; Protection from Law; Raptor's Sight; Ray of Sickening; Reaving Aura; Recharge Innate Magic; Remove Fear; Remove Sickness; Resinous Tar; Resist Planar Alignment; Restore Corpse; Resurgence; Sacrificial Skill; Sanctuary; Shivering Touch, Lesser; Sign; Slow Consumption; Sorrow; Stupor; Suspend Disease; Wieldskill

2 Aboleth's Lung; Addiction; Align Fang; Align Weapon; Animalistic Power; Augury; Aura Against Flame; Avoid Planar Effects; Balor Nimbus; Barkskin; Bear's Endurance; Bewildering Substitution; Bewildering Visions; Blinding Spittle; Blood Frenzy; Blood Snow; Body Blades; Body Ward; Boiling Blood; Boneblast; Brambles; Bull's Strength; Calm Emotions; Camouflage, Mass; Cat's Grace; Close Wounds; Cloud of Knives; Consecrate; Cure Moderate Wounds; Curse of Ill Fortune; Dance of Ruin; Darkness; Death Knell; Decomposition; Delay Poison; Desecrate; Dessicate; Detect Aberration; Eagle's Splendor; Ease Pain; Enthrall; Execration ; Expose The Dead; Extend Tentacles; Filter; Find Traps; Freedom of Breath; Frost Weapon; Frostburn, Lesser; Gaze Screen; Gentle Repose; Ghost Touch Armor; Healing Lorecall; Hold Person; Hydrate; Infernal Wound; Inflict Moderate Wounds; Inky Cloud; Insignia of Alarm; Invisibility, Swift; Iron Silence; Knife Spray; Lava Missile; Leap Into Animal; Living Undeath; Local Tremor; Magic Weapon, Legion's; Make Whole; Mark of the Outcast; Necrotic Cyst; Necrotic Scrying; Obscuring Snow; Owl's Wisdom; Phade's Fearsome Aspect; Quick March; Razorscales; Remove Addiction; Remove Paralysis; Resist Energy; Resounding Voice; Restoration, Lesser; Rigor Mortis; Sap Strength; Scorching Ray; Sense Weakness; Shield Other; Shroud of Undeath; Silence; Soul Ward; Spawn Screen; Spell Immunity, Lesser; Spores of the Vrock; Stabilize; Status; Stone Fist; Stretch Weapon; Thin Air; Undetectable Alignment; Veil of Shadow; Wave of Grief; Whispering Lore; Zone of Truth

3 Accept Affliction; Affliction; Aid, Mass; Air Breathing; Align Fang, Mass; Align Weapon, Mass; Anarchic Storm; Animate Dead; Awaken Sin; Axiomatic Storm; Battlemagic Perception; Blade of Pain and Fear; Bladebane; Blessed Sight; Blindness/Deafness; Blindsight; Boneblade; Chain of Eyes; Circle Dance; Circle of Nausea; Clutch of Orcus; Contagion; Continual Flame; Corona of Cold; Create Food and Water; Cure Serious Wounds; Curse of Petty Failing; Curse of the Brute; Darkfire; Daylight; Deeper Darkness; Detect Heresy; Devil's Eye; Downdraft; Energize Potion; Energy Aegis; Energy Vortex; Favorable Sacrifice; Fell the Greatest Foe; Find the Gap; Flesh Ripper; Furnace Within; Glyph of Warding; Grace; Hamatula Barbs; Handfang; Hesitate; Holy Storm; Inflict Serious Wounds; Insignia of Healing; Insignia of Warding; Inspired Aim; Invisibility; Invisibility Purge; Invoke the Cerulean Sign; Knight's Move; Know Bloodline; Know Opponent; Know Vulnerabilities; Lightning Bolt; Locate Object; Magic Circle against Chaos; Magic Circle against Evil; Magic Circle against Good; Magic Circle against Law; Magic Fang, Greater; Magic Vestment; Mantle of Chaos; Mantle of Evil; Mantle of Good; Mantle of Law; Mark of Doom; Masochism; Misrepresent Alignment; Mystic Lash; Nauseating Breath; Necrotic Bloat; Obscure Object; Plague Carrier; Protection from Dessication; Protection from Energy; Protection from Negative Energy; Protection from Positive Energy; Refreshment; Remove Blindness/Deafness; Remove Curse; Remove Disease; Remove Nausea; Resist Energy, Mass; Resist Taint; Resurgence, Mass; Ring of Blades; Rockburst; Sadism; Safety; Sands of Time; See Invisibility; Shivering Touch; Shriveling; Skull Watch; Snakebite; Soul of the Waste; Speak with Dead; Spikes; Sweet Water; Sword Stream; Telepathic Bond, Lesser; Thornskin; Toxic Tongue; Tremor; Unholy Storm; Updraft; Venomfire; Vile Lance; Vision of Fear; Wall of Light; Wall of Vermin; Water Breathing; Weapon of Energy; Weapon of Impact; Weather Eye; Web; Wind Wall; Wind Wall

4 Abyssal Might; Air Walk; Aligned Aura; Baleful Resurrection; Bestow Curse; Bleakness; Blood of the Martyr; Camel's Tenacity; Castigate; Claws of the Savage; Consumptive Field; Contagious Touch; Control Water; Cure Critical Wounds; Damning Darkness; Dampen Magic ; Death Ward; Delay Death; Dimensional Anchor; Discern Lies; Dismissal; Dispel Magic; Divination; Early Twilight; Fang Trap; Freedom of Movement; Freeze Armor; Ghost Touch Weapon; Glowing Orb; Heal Fractures; Heart Ripper; Hell's Power; Hypothermia; Identify Transgressor; Inflict Critical Wounds; Last Breath; Lower Spell Resistance; Magic Weapon, Greater; Make Manifest; Moon Bolt; Moral Façade; Necrotic Domination; Negative Energy Aura; Neutralize Poison; Panacea; Planar Tolerance; Poison; Positive Energy Aura; Profane Item; Pronouncement Of Fate; Psychic Poison; Purge Stomach, Mass; Recitation; Reincarnate; Remove Fatigue; Repel Vermin; Resistance, Greater; Restoration; Revenance; Runic Marker; Sending; Shark Bolt; Skull of Secrets; Spell Immunity; Spell Vulnerability; Starvation; Status, Greater; Stop Heart; Sustain; Sword of Conscience; Tongues; Venom Bolt; Wall of Chaos; Wall of Evil; Wall of Good; Wall of Law; Wall of Salt; Wall of Sand; Wall of Water; Watchful Ancestors; Wind at Back; Wrack

5 Baleful Polymorph; Bear's Heart; Bewildering Mischance; Blindsight, Greater; Boreal Wind; Break Enchantment; Choking Sands; Command, Greater; Commune with Earth; Contagion, Mass; Cure Light Wounds, Mass; Curse of Ill Fortune, Mass; Death Throes; Dispel Chaos; Dispel Cold; Dispel Evil; Dispel Fire; Dispel Good; Dispel Law; Dispel Water; Doomtide; Earth Reaver; False Sending; Fire In The Blood; Flame Strike; Flaywind Burst; Hallow; Heartclutch; Hibernate; Inflict Light Wounds, Mass; Jungle's Rapture; Lava Splash; Life's Grace; Mark of Justice; Mark of Sin; Memory Rot; Monstrous Regeneration; Morality Undone; Necrotic Burst; Necrotic Skull Bomb; Orb of Dancing Death; Parboil; Pass through Ice; Plane Shift; Poison Thorns; Polymorph; Profuse Bleeding; Psychic Turmoil; Resonating Resistance; Revivify; Sacred Guardian; Scry Trap; Scrying; Slay Living; Soul Scour; Spell Resistance; Status (HoB), Greater; Summon Blood Elemental; Surge of Fortune; Symbol of Pain; Symbol of Sleep; Symbol Of Spell Loss; Telepathic Aura; Telepathy Block; True Seeing; Unhallow; Vulnerability; Wall of Dispel Magic; Wall of Magma; Wall of Ooze; Wall of Stone; Zone of Respite; Zone of Revelation

6 Avasculate; Animate Objects; Antilife Shell; Banishment; Barghest's Feast; Bear's Endurance, Mass; Blade Barrier; Blood to Water; Blood Sirocco; Bolt of Glory; Bull's Strength, Mass; Cometfall; Consecrate Battlefield; Create Undead; Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass; Demonic Blood Infusion; Desecrate Battlefield; Dessicate, Mass; Dispel Magic, Greater; Eagle's Splendor, Mass; Energy Immunity; Find the Path; Forbiddance; Forced Resurrection; Geas/Quest; Glimpse Of The Prophecy; Glyph of Warding, Greater; Harm; Heal; Heroes' Feast; Hide the Path; Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass; Magic Weapon, Greater Legion's; Mummify; Necrotic Eruption; Owl's Wisdom, Mass; Pox; Rejection; Remorseless Charm; Resistance, Superior; Spellmantle; Suppress Glyph; Symbol of Fear; Symbol of Persuasion; Symbol of Thirst; Thousand Needles; Touch of Adamantine; Trusted Bloodhound, Mordenkainen's; Vengeance Halo; Weight of Sin; Whirl of Fangs; Wind Walk; Word of Recall; Zealot Pact

7 Avasculate; Bestow Curse, Greater; Blasphemy; Bleakness, Greater; Blood to Water; Brain Spider; Consumptive Field, Greater; Control Weather; Cure Serious Wounds, Mass; Death Dragon; Destruction; Energy Ebb; Ethereal Jaunt; Evil Glare; Fiendish Clarity; Foul Trade; Harm, Greater; Imprison Soul; Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass; Mark of the Unfaithful; Minor Servitor; Necrotic Curse; Necrotic Tumor; Pact of Return; Planar Bubble; Plane Shift, Greater; Psychic Turmoil, Greater; Ravage; Ravenous Darkness; Refuge; Regenerate; Renewal Pact; Repulsion; Restoration, Greater; Resurrection; Righteous Glare; Righteous Smite; Scry Location; Scrying, Greater; Spell Resistance, Mass; Symbol of Stunning; Symbol of Weakness; Withering Palm; Wretched Blight

8 Abyssal Frenzy; Antimagic Field; Avascular Mass; Befoul; Chain of Chaos; Cloak of Chaos; Create Greater Undead; Cure Critical Wounds, Mass; Death Pact; Death Ward, Mass; Dimensional Lock; Discern Location; Earthquake; Flashflood; Heat Drain; Holy Aura; Illusion Purge; Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass; Last Judgment; Necrotic Empowerment; Pestilence; Restoration, Mass; Spell Immunity, Greater; Symbol of Death; Symbol of Insanity; Unholy Aura; Wall of Greater Dispel Magic

9 Astral Projection; Despoil; Energy Drain; Erupt; Etherealness; Feast of Champions; Gate; Heal, Mass; Implosion; Mindrape; Necrotic Termination; Programmed Amnesia; Restoration, Mass Greater; Righteou Exile; Soul Bind; Spread of Savagery; Storm of Vengeance; True Resurrection; Were-Doom

Note on spells:
The significant omissions here are miracle and wish, though they get a couple of invisibility spells and one or two thematically-appropriate assassin and ranger spells. If one REALLY wanted to get miracle or wish, IIRC there are domains for that.

Specific questions:
1- The approximate tier?
2- It IS a lotta spells. Too many? Or does it need a lot to ever even hope to compete with clerics?
3- My hope was that this class would be multiclassing-friendly for a variety of other classes, i.e. anybody from fighters to rogues to casters might find something to like. Have I even come close to that goal?
4- I feel like they ought to get some sort of "swift-self-strike" thing around midway through to help mitigate the limitations of the Bloodcasting thing. Something to represent their experience in rapidly drawing blood from themselves. Not sure what that should look like, though.
5- Is Bloodbathe too easily negated? not easily enough?
6- I'm sure there are consequences to some of these oddball class features that I haven't considered. Anybody see any red flags?
7- It feels just a tiny bit scattered, conceptually, to me. Is it too much so?

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-12, 05:15 AM
Torrent of Blood
Your bloodletting ability has grown in intensity; blood pours more freely from your enemies' wounds.
Prerequisite: Bloodletting class feature; base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: Your bloodletting ability deals 1d4 points of bleed damage.
Normal: Your bloodletting ability deals 1 point of bleed damage.

remetagross
2016-10-12, 11:21 AM
The class is rather neat, but here are my remarks.

-Poison use seems a bit misplaced here. It is one of the only abilities that don't relate to blood, and one that neither Ranger nor Beguiler have.

-The class seems too evil to be broad enough. You can play a good or an evil ranger, a lawful or a chaotic beguiler, but i can''t see a blood priest having any alignment but Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil. This, for me, is a symptom that this class concept is maybe too narrow to be made into a base class, and should maybe be restricted to a prestige class. As it is, the class forces a very specific type or roleplay on the player and I think base classes should be more open to a variety of roleplays than that.

-I find it strange that the bloodbath class feature is based off Charisma, since all the rest of its Su abilities relate to Wisdom. Moreover, as it comes into play at level 16, you can't really say that the class is, from the beginning, Cha-based as well as Wis-based. I was surprised to see Charisma pop out at that level.

-Still about the Bloddbath class feature. The abilities are underpowered for the level at which they are gained. Cha to AC won't be more than a few points; if you change this to Wis to AC, you will maybe gain a +10, which is okay but won't send your non-melee class AC through the roof either. Immunity to diseases is gained by Paladins at level 3; it is very underwhelming to gain it at level 16. Ability to poison one's weapons and create poisonous vapors (the latter being very original !) is nigh useless given how many monsters either have gigantic Fort saves or are simply immune to poison. What you gain at level 20, however, is worth it, but not as much as you would think. Even before you reach level 20, you will be very likely to have bought items providing a modicum of protection, if not immunity, against energy drain, fatigue and exhaustion, paralysis and sneak attack. Cold and Acid immunities are very great. But here again, it now depends of your Con modifier for duration, further complicating this ability. I would advise you switched the duration to Cha or Wis, to be consistent with what you used earlier in the ability, or to 24h to save the hassle.
Unfortunately, the ability is very easy to break off. Your DM, however, won't want to deprive you of your duly-acquired capstone, so he will purposefully avoid to break it; this is an unnecessary hassle to the DM.

-You did not specify what kind of action it was to coat one's weapon with one's own blood. I suppose it is a standard action as normal for poison coating but reminding it would be nice.

-Arterial spray is quite flavorful, but once again it comes online too late. At level 12, you face CR 12 opponents, and a CR 12 Frost Worm has Fort save +14, while your poison has a DC of 16+ Con modifier, so likely 20 or 21. Just put "1 HP" as a condition to extract one's blood, since I can't see any reason for which a PC might decide to hurt himself for more than 1 HP.

-Ocular spray is frankly brilliant :) but the fact that it is a swift action is wasted by the need to spend a move action after that. Frankly, wiping one's eyes clean should be no more than another swift action. But at level 14, do you prefer to spend two swift action inflicting a poison 80 % of your opponents will be immune to or will save against, or cast a Quickened Mass Aid and a Quickened Mass Conviction ?

-Reflex bleeding gets it right: make these abilities an immediate action. However, 17th level is too late for this.

-And this is what hurts the most in those two class features: why not simply cast a spell instead ? If you want to avoid that, you should make the action cost of those abilities much cheaper.

-Blood Casting and Blood Priest Somatics are very flavorful too, and the free Silent Spell feat is very nice thematically. To tell you, I just realised now that is actually is useful for a sneaky caster, because it flowed so naturally within the class' flavor that I immediatey assumed it was here just for blood fluff :)

-Track and Scent are neat. Maybe about Scent, you could add, as it is the case for the shark's Keen Scent ability, that the BloodPriest is able to sniff out blood at a far greater range that it can for other smells. It will make their scent a bit better and all the more flavorful, without seeming out of place since there is a precedent in Core. Gaining Track as a free feat without losing caster levels will attract some PCs into multiclassing in Bloodpriest.

-Uncanny Dodge is neat, but comes in a bit too late; compare with the Barbarian or the Rogue, who gain Uncanny Dodge and the improved version at levels 2 and 6, and 4 and 8 respectively. Speaking of which, it is weird that the class does not grant Improved Uncanny Dodge: any player that looks at the table and sees Uncanny Dodge will be puzzled not to find its brethen a few levels later. It is understandable that you don't want to beat these classes at their own game, but don't let them too much ahead or the class feature will arrive too late to be noticable.

-One domain granted is completely fine, as long as you justify in the fluff why one and not two. One more reason to multiclass into Bloodpriest.

-The amount of damage reduction is way too low to be even noticable. Either make it come online earlier, or don't bother altogether. I guess you didn't want to make it better than the Barbarian's, but the Barbarian already completely ignores his DR or has it pumped up by DM's fiat, or trades it for some ACF.

-Camouflage is cool, and I notice once again, you get it at the same level as the ranger does. Well, the ranger gets it a wee bit too late, so you might want to duplicate the Scout instead, which gains it at 8th level but most importantly, gains the Hide in Plain Sight ability at 14th level. Getting this ability early is all the more important to you that you can simply cast Invisibility on yourself, which will completely overshadow Camoufllage when its duration lasts a few rounds.

-Trackless step is okay !

-Cunning Initiative is awesome, and is one reason for which someone would want to multiclass into Bloodpriest for sure !

-Fluid of Life and Death is very cool but very weak. First, it does not scale that well with your level. Sure, your Wis modifier will increase, but way slower than your HPs or your opponent's. Second, you must deal Con damage to yourself. This is horrible. No sane player would ever deal himself more than 2 (or 3 if his Con score is odd) points of Con damage, but this will still cost him between 4 and 20 HPs (which partially offsets the bonus to Cure spells if you want to heal yourself), a -1 to Concentration checks and a -1 to Fort saves. If you wait for the Con damage to naturally heal, you might as well let the additionnal Cured HPs heal naturally too. If you later use a Restauration, you could have just used Cure Wounds twice. Thirdly, the action cost is important. An additional move action is expensive when it could allow you to get out of the trouble that needed a Cure in the first place.

-Poison immunity is very nice.

-Cloaked Casting is as powerful as it is for the Beguiler, whith a caveat that i will explain just below.

-d6: Fair enough for a sneaky version of a class with d8 HD.

-4 skill points/level: This is ok. Any caster needs Concentration and possibly Spellcraft, and you as a sneaky character also need Hide and Move Silently, possibly Tumble, Listen and Spot...moreover, Int is not your primary stat. So you won't e a skillmonkey, but you are not supposed to be one.

-Good Will saves: from a meta point of view, I understand that you don't want to give the Bloodpriest as good saves as a Cleric but from a thematical point of view, the Bloodpriest should totally have good Fort saves.

-Full casting: Ah. I think access to 9th level spells, with a diversified spell list and Cloaked Casting as well as a bunch of minor class features is going to divert your class from its intended purpose. It will make it too powerful for its own good. You want to have a sneaky Cleric, you will just have a Cleric who happens to have bonuses on flat-footed ennemies. Even though you reduced the number of spells per day the Bloodpriest gains when compared to a Cleric, there is still far enough 9th level spells to make a Bloodpriest swomp everythng in his path just as Clerics do instead of being subtle. This is why Beguilers don't get maximum spellcasting too !

-Abilities gained at each level. Sweet ! You even put the powerful class features at even levels to compensate for the new spell levels at odd levels. Well done !

Here are ideas for a revamp:

-Tone down the spellcasting. Restrain it to 7th level spells, maybe, or even 6th level spells just as the Beguiler does. This is, I think, the most crucial change that I would suggest.

-Get several abilities earlier: Uncanny Dodge, the Poisonous Blood abilities, Bloodbath, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight... Spread a bit more the Bloodbath abilities so that it still caps at level 20.

-Base things off Wisdom for Bloodbath and give more powerful power increases that "can ignore disease" for the 18th level power. For example, applied the bonus to AC to saves too, or gain a spell resistance that can be lowered as an immediate action. Buff up a little the level 20 ability too: True Seeing, Freedom of movement ?

-Change Fluid of Life and Death so that it scales with level, like the Lay on Hands of the Paladin, and make the spell become a swift action instead of a standard action: sacrificing one's own Constitution (especially with d6) is a serious matter that should be greatly rewarded.

-Maybe give good Fort saves instead of Will saves.

-Suppress DR or make it twice or three times as high

-Change the fluff a bit so that it can fit on a broader range of character rather than secretive primal psychopaths (this is the general vibe the class gives), or turn it into a prestige class.


The class is undoubtedly Tier 1. Having access to a reasonably large list of spells, knowing them all, and having access to 9th level spells is all what it takes. And them you pile on all the goodies. Less spells per day and lack of Turn Undead for various abuses mean that the Cleric is still a bit ahead, but this does not make this class less than a Tier 1. The only way to bring it back to Tier 2 would be to suppress access to 7th to 9th level spells; but maybe you're comfortable with a Tier 1 class. Compared to the Beguiler, the Warmage and the Dread Necromancer, the Bloodpriest is more versatile: he can do more than destroy stuff, and he is not heavily hindered by mind affecting or energy drain immmunities.

The potential for getting into this class is to enter prestige classes such as Dweomerkeeper, who list "any metamagic feat" in their prerequisites, since you gain Silent spell and are still a full casting class, or the Windwalker, which needs Track and advances divine spellcasting.

The potential for multiclassing is, to my eyes, to get Track as a prerequisite while gaining another bonus feat from a judiciously chosen Domain power, and some 1st level spells. The Dark Hunter, or the Dragon Stalker, for example, need both Track and Blind-Fight, the latter of which can be gained through the selection of the Darkness Domain. ompared with a Ranger dip, you lose 1 BAB, 1 HP on average, 2 skill points and +2 to Ref save but gain another prerequisite feat, divine spellcasting, and a free Silent Spell to boot.

The final reason is Wis to Initiative. In fact a three-levels dip in Bloodpriest would grant Wis to Initiative, Track, Silent spell, another feat from a domain...this can be a good starting point for a Theurge prestige class that advance divine spellcasting.

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-12, 04:56 PM
I greatly appreciate all that feedback!


-Poison use seems a bit misplaced here. It is one of the only abilities that don't relate to blood, and one that neither Ranger nor Beguiler have.
And now that you mention it, it's probably not necessary to give a blanket "you don't risk poisoning yourself" thing when their own blood-poison should never poison them anyway. I'll remove that.


-The class seems too evil to be broad enough. You can play a good or an evil ranger, a lawful or a chaotic beguiler, but i can''t see a blood priest having any alignment but Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil. This, for me, is a symptom that this class concept is maybe too narrow to be made into a base class, and should maybe be restricted to a prestige class. As it is, the class forces a very specific type or roleplay on the player and I think base classes should be more open to a variety of roleplays than that.
Would you argue the same to be true of dread necromancer from Heroes of Horror? I was kind of using that as a conceptual guide. I figure lawful evil and lawful neutral are definitely possibilities, e.g. maybe you model a character on an Aztec priest, or even a Roman haruspex. To me at least, that's sufficient breadth of potential roleplaying directions. But I can probably tone down some of the more Hannibal-esque fluff! :)

I see your points about Bloodbathe and I'll definitely be tweaking that one. I may have gotten too fixated on the notion of having a capstone to examine its balance closely enough.


-Arterial spray is quite flavorful, but once again it comes online too late. At level 12, you face CR 12 opponents, and a CR 12 Frost Worm has Fort save +14, while your poison has a DC of 16+ Con modifier, so likely 20 or 21. Just put "1 HP" as a condition to extract one's blood, since I can't see any reason for which a PC might decide to hurt himself for more than 1 HP.

-Ocular spray is frankly brilliant :) but the fact that it is a swift action is wasted by the need to spend a move action after that. Frankly, wiping one's eyes clean should be no more than another swift action. But at level 14, do you prefer to spend two swift action inflicting a poison 80 % of your opponents will be immune to or will save against, or cast a Quickened Mass Aid and a Quickened Mass Conviction ?

-Reflex bleeding gets it right: make these abilities an immediate action. However, 17th level is too late for this.

-And this is what hurts the most in those two class features: why not simply cast a spell instead ? If you want to avoid that, you should make the action cost of those abilities much cheaper.
All good points, and I will likely shift some of that stuff to earlier levels.


-Blood Casting and Blood Priest Somatics are very flavorful too, and the free Silent Spell feat is very nice thematically. To tell you, I just realised now that is actually is useful for a sneaky caster, because it flowed so naturally within the class' flavor that I immediatey assumed it was here just for blood fluff :)
Thanks! Yeah, that was one of the first things I came up with for the class.


-Track and Scent are neat. Maybe about Scent, you could add, as it is the case for the shark's Keen Scent ability, that the BloodPriest is able to sniff out blood at a far greater range that it can for other smells. It will make their scent a bit better and all the more flavorful, without seeming out of place since there is a precedent in Core. Gaining Track as a free feat without losing caster levels will attract some PCs into multiclassing in Bloodpriest.
Great call on the shark thing. It'll give a whole new meaning to the term "landshark"!


-Camouflage is cool, and I notice once again, you get it at the same level as the ranger does. Well, the ranger gets it a wee bit too late, so you might want to duplicate the Scout instead, which gains it at 8th level but most importantly, gains the Hide in Plain Sight ability at 14th level. Getting this ability early is all the more important to you that you can simply cast Invisibility on yourself, which will completely overshadow Camoufllage when its duration lasts a few rounds.
Good point about invisibility. As for when rangers get stuff, I changed that in my system, accelerating Camo and lots of other things (kind of like PF did, IIRC).


-Fluid of Life and Death is very cool but very weak. First, it does not scale that well with your level. Sure, your Wis modifier will increase, but way slower than your HPs or your opponent's. Second, you must deal Con damage to yourself. This is horrible. No sane player would ever deal himself more than 2 (or 3 if his Con score is odd) points of Con damage, but this will still cost him between 4 and 20 HPs (which partially offsets the bonus to Cure spells if you want to heal yourself), a -1 to Concentration checks and a -1 to Fort saves. If you wait for the Con damage to naturally heal, you might as well let the additionnal Cured HPs heal naturally too. If you later use a Restauration, you could have just used Cure Wounds twice. Thirdly, the action cost is important. An additional move action is expensive when it could allow you to get out of the trouble that needed a Cure in the first place.
Yeah, I was worried about this one. It strikes me as conceptually necessary, but I'm not sure how to make it work. Unless I simplify it into being basically (or maybe exactly) a metamagic feat, specific to cure/inflicts? And maybe a bloodpriest can only use the ability while she is injured. That could obviate the need, fluff-wise, for the action cost increasing, and plus no more need to deal Con damage to yourself.


-Abilities gained at each level. Sweet ! You even put the powerful class features at even levels to compensate for the new spell levels at odd levels. Well done !
I wish I could say that was intentional! XD I also hope it remains the case after I shift a lot of this stuff around!


-Tone down the spellcasting. Restrain it to 7th level spells, maybe, or even 6th level spells just as the Beguiler does. This is, I think, the most crucial change that I would suggest.
Fair point, especially after accelerating their other class features. And in looking at their spell list, they wouldn't lose that much by losing 8th and 9th. As for 7th, well, I really want them to have avasvulate, but if that's the only big one I could always say THEY get it at 6th. I'll cut these back one way or another.


-Maybe give good Fort saves instead of Will saves.
I was super torn on this. I could make a case for any of their saves to be good (Fort b/c blood power, Ref b/c sneakiness, Will b/c caster), but I certainly won't do all. I just have a hard time seeing a caster without a good Will save, especially a divine caster with "-priest" in the name, suggesting some measure of discipline despite the whole crazy blood theme.


The class is undoubtedly Tier 1. Having access to a reasonably large list of spells, knowing them all, and having access to 9th level spells is all what it takes. And them you pile on all the goodies. Less spells per day and lack of Turn Undead for various abuses mean that the Cleric is still a bit ahead, but this does not make this class less than a Tier 1. The only way to bring it back to Tier 2 would be to suppress access to 7th to 9th level spells; but maybe you're comfortable with a Tier 1 class. Compared to the Beguiler, the Warmage and the Dread Necromancer, the Bloodpriest is more versatile: he can do more than destroy stuff, and he is not heavily hindered by mind affecting or energy drain immmunities.
I...would tolerate it being tier 1 if it was unavoidable :) but tier 2, *maybe* high 3, was basically my goal.

Thanks again for your thorough response!! :smallcool:

remetagross
2016-10-12, 11:12 PM
-Well, you do have a point about the Dread Necromancer, but I find the concept of necromancy is still broader than the concept of sneaky divine caster, even though it practically limits your possible alignments. Iin an average D&D setting, I wouldn't be surprised at all if I stumbled upon a necromancer in a random encounter: those are well-established fantasy characters. If I met a Bloodpriest, however, I woudl pause for a second, not because he won't fit in the setting, but because he's more of an oddity than a standard fantasy figure. This is from that point of view that I think that the concept is maybe too narrow. However, the concept does not do everything, and if you crunch gives several viable build options to the class, that goes a long way towards making it fun and attractive to players. And with a great spell list, versatility is automatically gained. As long as your players don't feel contrained by either the fluff or the crunch options, I'd say your class works well as a base class; and you certainly already have crunch versatility.

-About Fluid of Life and Death, I agree that it seems a mandatory class feature for the Bloodpriest, let's see what we can make of ti. You may have something about metamagic. Now, tinkering with metamagic must be done with utmost care, as it is a big flashing red signal to absurdly powerful optimization if not done properly. But it can give a real omph to this class feature, and make it more polyvalent than just enhancing Inflict and Cure spells. Here are my ideas:

*Paying 2 Con to reduce the metamagic level increase of a metamagic feat by 1. This Con is not paid at the moment you prepare the spell (or else the PC could simply Restoration away the damage just after having prepared the spell) but at the moment you cast it. The level increase can't be reduced to less than 1. At the moment you gain it, you can pay up to 2 Con for any given spell you metamagicked (and not for every metamagic effect you apply); every three levels thereafter, you can pay 2 more Con. So that at level 18 you can pay 8 Con and reduce by 4 the total metamagic level increase of a spell.
The players will likely come up with Contingent Restorations or similar shenaningans, but you can let them: having to add in a Contingency spell amounts to spending all the spell levels you saved by using this ability in the first place.

*Paying 2 Con to apply for free and on the fly a single metamagic feat chosen from a carefully thought-out list. This curbs power and flexibility, but is much more cheese-proof than the option above, and slightly more efficient since it completely erases the increased cost of the metamagic feat. Some of the less game-breaking feats that can be added to the list are Still Spell, Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Sculpt Spell, Deceiptive Spell...The list could improve at following levels to include slighly more powerful metamagic feats like Empower Spell and Entangling Spell. At the end, near level 16 or 18, you add Maximise Spell and Quicken spell to the list.

-Yeah about Avasculate, it really makes sense that this class gets it, you can totally put it at 6th level if you refrain yourself to 6th level spells.

-For the save, ah. If you limit spellcasting to 6th level, then there isn't any comparison with the Cleric anymore, and you can give 2 or even 3 good saves withour worries.

-For the tier, well, Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are Tier 3, and they have 9th level spells, but as mentioned before they are spontaneous spellcasters, so delayed spell acquisition, and their spell lists are very focused. There is no 9th-level spells preparing spellcasting class not in Tier 1, not because preparing spell is inherently better (it is weaker with the exception of being able to cast Quicken Spell), but because those classes have an ton of spells known and a ton of spells per day. So if you aim at Tier 2, I suggest you either reduce you number of spells per day to the point where you can't freely throw around 6th level spells even if you can cast 8th level ones, or make your list of spell known even more focused on Necromancy and stealth. At any case, this means you will be godlike for only one or two encounters, or for specific situations, rather than all day long and in any circumstances. You should end up in Tier 2, even maybe in Tier 3 if your spell list avoids the all-powerful multitool spells like Time Stop, Gate, Shapechange, and equivalent spells of lesser levels. This is how the Dread Necromancer and the Beguiler are Tier 3 despite their 9th level spells. In addition, as with all spontaneous casters, their spellcasting acquisition is delayed by one level. You could do this too.
Or, if you stop at 7th level spells, as I see you did, you can't get to Tier 2 since you can't break the game with Time Stop, etc, but you remain very powerful and versatile anyway. Tier 3 for sure.
However, I wouldn't advise you abruptly stopped progression after spell level 7. As written, the Bloodpriest simply stalls in power after level 16, because he no longer gains spells per day or spell levels. This means the character is Tier 1 from level 1 to level 13 and then suddenly falls into Tier 2 and the Tier 3. Maybe you should delay a little spell acquisition: keep 1st level spells at level 1, 2nd at level 3, 3rd at level 5, but then gain 4th at level 8, 5th at level 11th, 6 at level 14th and 7th at level 17th? This way, from levels 1 to 20, you gain new spells per day at each level. Moreover, from levels 1 to 5, full casters don't completely overshadow the rest of the party yet, so this is okay to keep up with their power at that moment, and then delay the spellcasting progression in order to more gradually fall behind as casters explode in power.

When you shuffle around class feature acquisition, make sure an ability is gained at each level, except if this level is a new spell level in case it's okay to let it devoid of new class features.

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-13, 06:35 AM
-Well, you do have a point about the Dread Necromancer, but I find the concept of necromancy is still broader than the concept of sneaky divine caster, even though it practically limits your possible alignments. Iin an average D&D setting, I wouldn't be surprised at all if I stumbled upon a necromancer in a random encounter: those are well-established fantasy characters. If I met a Bloodpriest, however, I woudl pause for a second, not because he won't fit in the setting, but because he's more of an oddity than a standard fantasy figure.
Yeah, sort of. But on the other hand, blood magic is a quite established trope (see the TV Tropes page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BloodMagic)). That said, I will definitely ponder what a Good bloodpriest could possibly look like, and maybe adjust the spell list (and of course fluff) accordingly.


*Paying 2 Con to reduce the metamagic level increase of a metamagic feat by 1. This Con is not paid at the moment you prepare the spell (or else the PC could simply Restoration away the damage just after having prepared the spell) but at the moment you cast it. The level increase can't be reduced to less than 1. At the moment you gain it, you can pay up to 2 Con for any given spell you metamagicked (and not for every metamagic effect you apply); every three levels thereafter, you can pay 2 more Con. So that at level 18 you can pay 8 Con and reduce by 4 the total metamagic level increase of a spell.
The players will likely come up with Contingent Restorations or similar shenaningans, but you can let them: having to add in a Contingency spell amounts to spending all the spell levels you saved by using this ability in the first place.

*Paying 2 Con to apply for free and on the fly a single metamagic feat chosen from a carefully thought-out list. This curbs power and flexibility, but is much more cheese-proof than the option above, and slightly more efficient since it completely erases the increased cost of the metamagic feat. Some of the less game-breaking feats that can be added to the list are Still Spell, Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Sculpt Spell, Deceiptive Spell...The list could improve at following levels to include slighly more powerful metamagic feats like Empower Spell and Entangling Spell. At the end, near level 16 or 18, you add Maximise Spell and Quicken spell to the list.
That first one seems nicely potent. Maybe I like it more because I ban Craft Contingent Spell in my system. I like that the second option is more straightforward, but it also feels more generic as a result. IIRC the Wu Jen gets something very similar.


Or, if you stop at 7th level spells, as I see you did, you can't get to Tier 2 since you can't break the game with Time Stop, etc, but you remain very powerful and versatile anyway. Tier 3 for sure.
However, I wouldn't advise you abruptly stopped progression after spell level 7. As written, the Bloodpriest simply stalls in power after level 16, because he no longer gains spells per day or spell levels. This means the character is Tier 1 from level 1 to level 13 and then suddenly falls into Tier 2 and the Tier 3. Maybe you should delay a little spell acquisition: keep 1st level spells at level 1, 2nd at level 3, 3rd at level 5, but then gain 4th at level 8, 5th at level 11th, 6 at level 14th and 7th at level 17th? This way, from levels 1 to 20, you gain new spells per day at each level. Moreover, from levels 1 to 5, full casters don't completely overshadow the rest of the party yet, so this is okay to keep up with their power at that moment, and then delay the spellcasting progression in order to more gradually fall behind as casters explode in power.

So, suppose I cut it back to 6th, and just used the bard progression (plus the domain spell)? I.e.: at 2nd level, 3/0+d; at 10th, 3/3+d/3+d/2+d/0+d; etc.? (And I might give one or two extra level-0s, like the cleric.) Is that too few spells per level--effectively 4 max until 15th, when they get 4+d 1st-level spells?

remetagross
2016-10-13, 10:30 AM
-Fair enough, there is room indeed. But for sure, trying to imagine this class with all sorts of alignment makes you consider how easy and flavorful the build can be in different circonstances. What could be fun would be to write a Good Bloodpriest as the sample character, for example :)

-Actually, i've just discovered that the Maho Tsukai prestige class, from Oriental Adventures (3.0 material), has almost exactly this ability. The Con cost to negate the level increase is equal to the level of the spell when taking into account the metamagic additional cost. Compared to the ability I wrote, it is always worse, except for a +5 or higher metamagic feat (of which there is but one: Persist Spell at +6), so you might want to keep my version. But this is nice to see the ability actually written out, it proves that the concept is sound.

-Yeah, that may be simpler altogether. Bards have bardic music to do something when they have exhausted their spells per day; in your case, when you have cast as much spells as the Bard did, you still have your domain spells and Poisonous Blood abilities to do something with your actions. Though the latter certainly are less powerful than Bardic Music effects; as the Bard (Tier 3) now seems to be our benchmark, the Bloodpriest lacks ommph/versatility in his Poisonous Blood abilities to live up the comparison when spells are depleted. On the other hand, the spells of the Bloodpriest are more diverse than those of the Bard, and he knows much more of them.

-So this roughly means that the Bloodpriest is more powerful than the Bard as long as he still has spells, at which points he becomes less powerful when no one has spells left anymore. This is not bad at all, don't you think ?

-This means that giving two or three good saves, and 6+ skill points per level, don't seem too , since they help closing the gap.

-By the way, you might want to increase the range of these Poisonous Blood abilities. I just realised that with a d6, no heavy armor proficiency and by dealing Con damage to yourself to further diminish your HP, the Bloodpriest does not want to get at close range at all. So a range of, on average, 30ft for the Arterial Spray ability might be a bit too short, you might need to double it for example. This may not be what you envisioned, and this is not what I envisioned at the beginning, but this class is actually made to hit and run from a distance, in fact behaving closer to a Beguiler than to a Duskblade as I first thought. The Zen Archery (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/dndtools/feats/sword-and-fist-a-guidebook-to-monks-and-fighters--50/zen-archery--3179/) feat, though it limits you to 30ft range, might be plain excellent for a Bloodpriest.

-The class now seems to me a well-rounded Tier 3 !

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-14, 08:58 AM
OK, adjustments complete for now, I think. Here's what I did:
- bard spell progression (+ domain spell, + cleric-style orison progression)
- now their good saves are Fort and Will
- added Improved Uncanny Dodge
- shifted almost all abilities (excluding Cloaked and Surprise casting) to come online earlier
- arterial spray now starts at [range = speed], but increases by 10' at intervals
- gave ocular spray a (generous) limitation on uses per day, so people aren't just spraying blood out of their eyes all day like a warlock
- boosted Bloodbath in many ways, including removing the whole "it washes off" thing (since then aquatic races wouldn't be able to use it!)
- boosted Blood Shaman, in a fashion that helps compensate a little for the lowered number of spells per day
- changed the name of Fluid of Life and Death to "Transfusion," and added suggested metamagic-level-reduction stuff
- added some fluff to suggest why they get 1 domain instead of 2.
- added some fluff under alignment to hint at the possibility of a good bloodpriest.

One additional question: should you be able to use Camouflage when you're bathed in blood?? :smalleek:


-So this roughly means that the Bloodpriest is more powerful than the Bard as long as he still has spells, at which points he becomes less powerful when no one has spells left anymore. This is not bad at all, don't you think ?
Works for me! I feel like they'd get curbstomped by clerics most of the time, but not necessarily in EVERY case.


-This means that giving two or three good saves, and 6+ skill points per level, don't seem too , since they help closing the gap.
6 skill points seems steep to me. Since their skill list is very similar to a ranger's, I feel like 6 skill points plus unarguably better spells might make this class too preferable to ranger in most situations, even though I gave my ranger full BAB. I'm open to persuasion though.

remetagross
2016-10-16, 06:04 AM
Hehe, the picture is very cool! It reminds me of the villain in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom :smallcool:


-I see your point about Ranger. Well, my point was that 4 skill points were barely enough for Concentration, Spellcraft, Stealth and maybe Perception, did not let much room for anything else, like Knowledge: Religion or Acrobatics. I was going to propose you to increase the skill points to 6 and remove certain key ranger skills like Perception, but that would have been useless as two more skill points allow to buy Perception cross-class anyway. I guess this ultimately does not change much of the character's usefulness, he has a ton of spells to let him sneak/detect/survive etc anyway.

-For camouflage while bathed in blood, sure ! Rolling into the mud or dry leaves after covering oneself with blood will make them adhere to the body in a pinch. Two caveats, however:
*You might consider that covering oneself with mud breaks the continuity of the bloodbath, or that it thematically negates the idea of being visibly covered in blood.
*The stench might make you easier to sniff out: the range of the Scent ability is doubled against a strong smell, and a bloodbath certainly is. One might even argue that this stench saturates your own Scent ability and that it is negated or diminished when you take the Bloodbath. However, it makes things unnecessarily complicated for very little effect ingame (the Scent ability is not that powerful), so I would not advise to implement this. Maybe you can add a little line saying that you are used to this and have learned to ignore this scent when sniffing out foes; or you could say that the blood is infused with divine energy and does not release any smell; or you could say nothing and let things flow more smoothly in the ability's arleady complicated description. The same reasoning applies to the idea of the "strong smell" and opposed Scent abilities.

-Very neat fluff for why there is only one domain ! Simple and credible.

Some general remarks after performing a global rereading:

-Very credible example given for a Good Bloodpriest.

-Why not Exalted Bloodpriests ? Technically, Warlocks and Dread Necromancers can become Exalted, and they have much more roleplay incentive not to do so than the Bloodpriest. You should put a bit of fluff here if you maintain this.

-You say that the class can cast divine spells, plus some arcane spells. I take it that you mean "has on its spell list mostly divine spells, plus some arcane spells", but stated as it is, this is a bit confusing since one could wonder if the class casts both arcane and divine spells, while in fact all of the spells are cast as divine spells.

-The Bloodcasting makes me think of this. At several points during the class description, you mention the need for being hurt or for drawing one's blood. For some abilities, but not for all, you explain that the character can bleed himself for any number of lethal damage. I think it would be worthwhile to remind at the beginning of the class features description that the Bloodpriest can bleed himself as a free action, or an ally as a move action ? for any number of lethal damage. As a side note, is even 1 point of damage sufficient to coat the hand of the character in blood for the Bloodcasting ? 1 point of damage usually amounts to a drop of blood, I don't remember which spell I have seen that needed a single drop of blood for 1 point of damage. Once again: either this is so small a matter that you ditch it, you explain that 1 damage is enough. I would not advise it to make it more than 1 damage, however, because at level 1 even 1 damage is actualy significant. And there would be no logic in making the damage you need to deal to yourself scale with level.

-Blood Control is now good (but not overpowered, though). You forgot to mention wether the rounding was up or down, however (down I suppose), and that there is a minimal amount of DR (unless this is on purpose, but as is written a Wis of 6 actually gives you a negative DR). You should aslo specify whether this DR stacks with other DR/- coming from class features or not. I advise you say yes to this, it favors multiclassing ever so slightly, and this is what is usually done. DR 2/- at level 4, when your character only has 28 HP, is quite relevant.

-Bloodletting is powerful and flavorful, and gives some power that does not rely on spells. By optimising your number of attacks, you can deal serious additional damage. Moreover, opponents immune to this effect are often undead and thus vulnerable to many of the Bloodpriest's spells. You did not specify at which range you can anoint an ally's weapoon: an ally within reach, I presume. Even though it seems stupid, by RAW your ability works with ranged weapons only if you club your opponent with your bow. You should specifiy that ranged weapons confer this ability to their projectiles. The sentence "it stacks but only with itself" means that it does not stack with other bleeding effects ? This formulation is a bit unclear.

-Transfusion scales up nicely, and the bonus are important. However, you should specify what happens when you use a Mass version of the spell. Is the bonus equally appplied to all targets ? Is it equally divided between each ? Or divided as you see fit ? I'd suggest to apply the bonus to each target, since a Mass spell is just the same thing as several targeted ones for which the bonus would be appiled whole.

Another nitpick: the bonus can quickly rival with the base damage/healing the spell dishes out, which means that a pair of Cure Light Wounds will end up just as powerful as a Cure Critical Wounds, while using up two 1st level spell slots rather than 1 4th level spell slot. An 11th level Bloodpriest with has started with Wis 18 and Con 16, has invested his 4th an 8th level bonus abilty points in Wis, has bought a +4 Wis item and a +2 Con item ends up with Wis 24 and Con 18, so Wis bonus x Con bonus = 28. So, a Cure Light Wounds heals up 1d8 +5 +28 = 37,5 HP on average, 9,5 without Transfusion. Cast two in a row: 75 HP. While a Cure Critical Wounds heals up 4d8+11+28 = 57 HP on average, 29 without Transfusion. Mind you, this bonus of 28 is good for this level. An 11th level Fighter might net 110 HP, so healing 57 Hp rather than 28 makes a big difference; and in battle, you can't allow to waste two turns casting healing spells, so you won't wait for the two Cure Light Wounds and directly cast Cure Critical Wounds. Heal is considered the only healing spell that cures enough HPs and conditions in a single standard action to be worth casting in battle. You gain it at level 16, where you can expect your Wis to be 30 and Con to be 20. This makes a Transfusion bonus of 50 HPs, so that your Cure Critical Wounds now heals 4d8+16+50 = 85 HPs. On the other hand, Heal cures 150 HPs and removes a slew of impeding conditions. Cure Critical Wounds is still too weak to be efficiently used in battle, but it only takes a 4th level spell, and you don't have Heal from levels 10 to 16. But Cure Light Wounds, Mass, comes online at level 13, so at level 16, assuming a party of four, you can cast it and cure all of the team in one standard action for 1d8+5+50 = 59,5 HPs per person. The total healed is 238, which beats the 150 of Heal, can be used at a distance, and requires a spell slot one level lower. It does not remove any ongoing condition, but it is a viable alternative to Heal in battle. This is great ! And not overpowered, since you gain that at level 13, and at level 13 Clerics gain 7th level spells, thus becoming more powerful than you will ever be. However, this means that as soon as level 13 is reached, Cure Critical Wounds is already beaten out and nigh useless. So it might be overpowered inside the Bloodpriest class itself...and in fact it is not, because the Cure spells are simply bad designed and don't scale nearly as well as they should among the different versions. Even without Transfusion, three Cure Light Wounds equal a Cure Critical Wounds, so that's for out of battle healing, and Mass Cure Light Wounds already beats Cure Critical Wounds, though by a much smaller margin (38 vs 31 at level 13).
Everything remains true for Inflict spells, but since Harm cannot kill a creature on a failed Will save, and does not add up any more nasty effects than dealing damage, the Inflict spells get even better in comparison.
So, all those rambling explanations and calculuses to make sure the Transfusiono ability is not under- or over-powered, and these calculations show, in my opinion, that they are neither. Making Heal less mandatory in battle by substituing Mass Cure Light Wounds can free up a 6th level spell slot. Sweet !
Now, outside of battle, you can spam Cure Light Wounds and bring everyone back on their feets solely with 1st level spell slots. Very cool !
I think the balancing factor for the Transfusion ability is the fact that a Bloodpriest can't spontaneously cast Cure or Inflict spells. Now, this ability makes preparing them actually worthwhile, but since they are not the most polyvalent spells there is, giving them a spell slot diminishes a bit their power.

-For the second part of the ability, you forgot to mention something. As Bloodpriests prepare their spells, they don't apply metamagic feats on the fly when they cast a spell. The ability as written seems to relate to spellcasters who use metamagic spells like this. You would have to add "this decision is made at the moment the player prepares his spells and decides to prepare the metamagic version of a spell (though the Con cost is paid upon casting the spell)". The spell level reduction must be applied at this moment, so that the player can allocate the spell in one of his lower level spell slots than expected. Since, when the character casts the spell, the spell slot in which the spell has been prepared has been chosen and allocated at the beginning of the day, it would have no effect to consider at the moment the spell is cast that it was in fact of a lower effective level than when it was prepared.
Also, you don't make it clear wether this ability reduces the cost of one metamagic feat affecting the spell, or the added cost of all the metamagic feats. The wording of your last sentence seems to indicate that the latter is the answer. I am sorry for not having thought of this when I described the ability to you, thus leading to the confusion ! You should expressely spell out that the ability works only on the total level increase of a spell (if this is the aim). This means that at level 6, a character can't add the Empower and Extend metamagic feats and pay 4 Con to reduce by one the metamagic increase of each, thus leading to a total level increase of 1 instead of 3; the PC can apply this ability to the added cost of 3 and reduce it to 2.

-So Poisonous Blood makes coated weapons poisonous for 4 minutes, till the blood dries. It's okay, this means a Bloodpriest expecting a fight can reasonably poison his weapon before the fight and thus save a standard action.

-About Bloodbath. More details are needed. What amount of fresh blood is required ? A liter at least ? How long does it take to coat oneself in blood ? I would say no less than ten minutes, so that the PC has a reasonable chance to be disturbed or interrupted. Is a Concentration check needed ? Since the character will have maxed out Concentration anyway, I would say yes. To make things easier, you might state that it is as difficult to keep one's Concentration while performing this effect as it is to cast a 6th level spell. In fact, this effect is very powerful and is magical, so it needs some sort of casting time, components, etc.
Then, can you use you own blood ? If yes, does the massive amount of blood needed actually costs you some Con damage, instead of HP damage ? I'd say this is realistic, losing a lot of blood lets you dizzy and weak. Maybe 2 Con should do it ? And how long does it take to drain yourself of enough blood ? Here, you can get fast; since you control your own blood flow, you can speed it up and gather the blood in one minute, maybe. And how long to drain out a bleeding monster you just killed ? I'd say 10 minutes too, because you know how to do it. You can also require a Survival check, as the rules explain how to proceed to extract body parts from a slain monster.
Then, what happens if you take another bloodbath while the other is in effect ? The logical answer would be that nothing stacks and the previous bloodbath is simply cancelled. You did specify the types of bonus granted by the effect, and nothing stacks with itself, so as it is, two bloodbathes already can't stack; but expressely stating it can't hurt.
Does th PC need to remove his clothes to bathe himself ? By RAW, yes since the blood must cover himself to the toes. You might want to make this expressely stated or, if the PC does not need that, to state it all the same. The difference it makes is wether the PC can hide his bloodbath behind his clothes or not, wether by rubbing against a wall his cloths can protect his bloodbath or not, etc. By performing a bloodbath he will look creepy in any case, so the fact that he possibly gets naked in the process is not much a big deal.
How long exactly does it last ? Not everything has the same duration, which makes this ability confusing to keep track of. From a balance perspective, I think this ability should last for no more than one encounter. It is very potent and it should not be last all day; of course the PC can keep on recreating the bloodbath but this takes time, and is not possible to perform when the party is rushed. At the same time, I think it's important that all of the abilities have the same duration. Tracking minutes, hours, rounds, all of this gets complicated to the player. Also, you did not specifiy a duration for the circumstance bonus on Escape Artist and Grapple checks (which is hilarious by the way^^). Making the bloodbath work for one hour, for example, guarantees that the Bloodpriest, if he knows he will get into a fight, can prepare his bloodbath without slowing down the party; at the same time, as a DM it is very convenient to adjust whether you want the encounters to happen within this hour or not. From a balancing point of view, this ability is like a powerful combination of buff spells, only it does not use spell slots and can't be dispelled. On the other hand, it takes time to set up, can be worn off in battle. But as mots buffs are set up for one encounter and don't last all day long, neither should this ability.
Deflection bonus to AC is excellent, it makes a great difference !
The part when you can infuse the bloodbath with poison is unclear. What does it exactly do ? Does it enable you to deliver the poison on an unarmed strike ? A Grapple check ? A touch attack ? Does the blood wear off, allowing you to poison only once, or can you poison someone as long as the ability lasts ?
I have the same question for the ability improvement at level 12. Also, inhaled poisons are very rare, so hats off for the originality and coolness on this one ! You should specify whether the poisoned air smells different, has a reddish hue, feels thicker, etc.
If the bloodbath can be noticed by Detect Magic, you need to specify what kinf of aura it gives off. I suppose it would be a Strong aura of both Necromancy and Transmutation ?
You should spread out a bit more the Bloodbath improvements: at level 12, you gain a minor buff, at level 14 you gain a ton of useful abilities, and at level 20 you don't gain much. You don't gain much because everyone will have True Seeing all day long at that level, and because you're very likely to have a +5 resistance bonus on saves already, so you will maybe gain another +5 or +7, but for a 20th level ability, one could expect a bit more. Moreover, you don't gain anything at level 19, and a very weak enhancement at level 17 (relatively to that level), so that could be the occasion to give them some class features. For example, at level 12 you could gain immunity to fatigue, exhaustion and paralysis well. At level 14, you could gain acid and cold resistance 20, immunity to supernatural diseases. At level 17, immunity to sneak attacks, and True Seeing. You need to specify the caster level of True Seeing: caster level = Bloodpriest level seems logic. By the way, immunity to sneak attacks very often comes along immunity to critical hits, so you can legitimately add this as well. The canonical expression for "immunity to negative levels" is "immunity to energy drain". You could give that at level 17 too. At level 19, you could get immunity to acid, cold and polymorph. At level 20, here is an interesting capstone that I suggest: the bonus to saves, and also your bloodbath cannot be removed by any means but the following: rubbing off or cleaning off your body with an at least +3 enhancement weapon, or an Antimagic field. It is always more gratifying to gain something entirely new from a capstone than simply some modifiers.

-The wording for Ocular Spray is unclear in one occurence: does it allow to coat a weapon as a swift action ? Or, if a standard action is still needed, does it take a standard action + a swift action ?
Apart from this, I finf it a little too bad that this ability appears just two levels after the Arterial Spray class feature, since it does not let much breathing room for this ability to be useful before being replaced by its upgrade. Maybe you could swap the levels at which Stalwart and Ocular Spray are gained ?

-Speaking of which, the usual name for Stalwart in D&D 3.5 is Mettle. Is it Stalwart in PF ?

-About Reflex Bleeding; how exactly does the ability work when you're unconscious ? Does it trigger against any creature than enters your space ? But then you can hit a friend who heals you. Maybe you can make a Sense Motive check at -20 to determine if the creature is hostile or not ? But that would not be a reflex then. I'm not quite sure how to make this work, though it's a very innovative ability to be sure. If you happen to push back Ocular Spray to level 11, there will be only two levels between it and Reflex Bleeding, so I am tempted to suggest you pushed it back too, but level 14 is quite crowded already, so that would make it to level 15, or 16 since there is no class feature at this level, but that might make it a bit too late...

-What is the Wall of Sand 2 spell ?

-You did not put Magic Vestment, Magic Weapon on the spell list. Is that intentional ?

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-16, 07:55 AM
I see your point about Ranger. Well, my point was that 4 skill points were barely enough for Concentration, Spellcraft, Stealth and maybe Perception, did not let much room for anything else, like Knowledge: Religion or Acrobatics. I was going to propose you to increase the skill points to 6 and remove certain key ranger skills like Perception, but that would have been useless as two more skill points allow to buy Perception cross-class anyway. I guess this ultimately does not change much of the character's usefulness, he has a ton of spells to let him sneak/detect/survive etc anyway.
I'm OK with this. It seems to me that each bloodpriest is either gonna be more strongly invested in the "hunting/action" side of things (thus prioritizing Perception, Stealth, Survival) or more on the "priest/community leader/mage" side of things (thus prioritizing Concentration, Knowledge: Religion, Spellcraft). For a build that *really* needs more skill points, there's always multiclassing.

I decided to leave Camo alone, but added a line about "strong smell" under Bloodbathe.

Good call about exalted bloodpriests. It'd be...tough for a PC to pull off :) but I decided I couldn't justify the prohibition.

"Divine caster" status clarified.


I think it would be worthwhile to remind at the beginning of the class features description that the Bloodpriest can bleed himself as a free action, or an ally as a move action ? for any number of lethal damage. As a side note, is even 1 point of damage sufficient to coat the hand of the character in blood for the Bloodcasting ? 1 point of damage usually amounts to a drop of blood, I don't remember which spell I have seen that needed a single drop of blood for 1 point of damage.
Yeah, and I figure one "drop" of blood can be smeared all over a palm to produce the desired effect. There's no reason why bloodcasting has to mean "entirely coated in blood! dripping in blood! so much blood!"

Blood Control and Bloodletting clarified.

I took your suggestion regarding "mass" Transfusion and the metamagic cost reduction.

I like your Bloodbathe suggestions and added them. You also made me realize an Intimidate bonus is necessary!


And how long to drain out a bleeding monster you just killed ? I'd say 10 minutes too, because you know how to do it. You can also require a Survival check, as the rules explain how to proceed to extract body parts from a slain monster.

Where are those rules? I didn't see it in the SRD.

You are right about "Stalwart" and "Mettle." I renamed it to Mettle. Also, clarified Ocular Spray and swapped its level with Mettle.


If you happen to push back Ocular Spray to level 11, there will be only two levels between it and Reflex Bleeding, so I am tempted to suggest you pushed it back too, but level 14 is quite crowded already, so that would make it to level 15, or 16 since there is no class feature at this level, but that might make it a bit too late...
Yeah, a two-level gap there isn't optimal, but I think changing it would be worse. I did clarify the consequences, adding a Fort -or- Ref save (most would take the Fort, but a multiclasses bloodpriest, who knows?) to avoid blood-spraying an ally, a la Cyclops from the X-men!

Wall of Sand 2 is a mistake from my database; the spell was updated in Spell Compendium. Magic Vestment and Weapon were in there.

The new thing I'm wondering about is whether it's a good, bad, or pointless idea to come up with a new custom spell along the lines of Preserve Organ (BoVD) but just for blood. Make it scale somehow with the size of the container (maybe lower duration for larger containers, or higher caster level for larger containers).

remetagross
2016-10-17, 12:08 AM
-Haha, very nice for the Intimidate bonus ! Once you've thought about it, indeed it becomes obvious :)

-For the harvesting monster rules, my bad, I mistook them for the rules for harvesting poison from a dead poisonous creature. It's not in the srd, however, but in Dragon Magazine 349. The Survival DC is equal to the DC of the poison. Unfortunately, it does not help you here. There is also an additional set of rules that might prove more helpful in Unearthed Arcana. Basically, you need a DC 15 Profession (Taxidermy) check to harvest a body part, and it takes 10 minutes, and then a DC 20 check to preserve it properly so that it does not rot away. In your case, you could simply change the Profession (Taxidermy) check into a Survival check. Nicely enough, we got the same 10 minutes duration ! Then, the PC might bathe himself right away, so only one check, or preserve the blood for a later use, and he also makes the second check.
On the other hand, by the time the Bloodpriest gains the Bloodbath ability, he has 13 ranks in Survival and a +5 Wis modifier, so a Dc 15 is an auto-succeed and a DC 20 but with a roll of 1. So implementing this ability would simply force Bloodpriests to pump Survival, but would have little other mechanical effect. It does add some flavor, though. What do you think ?

-Haha the Cyclops reference is exactly that ! :) Mechanically, this is sound, and necessary. Even if it seems a bit weird that the PC can recognize his allies even when unconscious, i think this ability is needed from a metagame point of view. At level 13, the Bloodpriest might have a +13 Fort save, so there is a reasonably small chance to hit his friends anyway, which adds in some fun :)

- Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell that cures 1d4 points of ability damage, so the Bloodpriest just has to bleed himself, and cure himself directly after that. In effect, Bloodbath becomes a 2nd-level spel with a 10 minutes casting time. I just noticed that, and I think it makes Bloodbath a bit too easy of access. The character can easily get the Bloodbath three or four time per day with this trick, and does not need another dead creature nearby. It sort of goes against the point. What do you think ? To prevent this, you could make the Con damage increase to 4, so that two castings of Lesser Restoration will be needed, on average. Since there is not that much spell slots available, the PC will be deterred to prepare four or six Lesser Restoration lest he loses versatility. Alternatively, that Con damage could be a sort of ritual, special blood magic damage that can only be healed through natural means: normally 1 per day, or you could make it faster. However doing this would pose a logical problem since the Con damage taken from the Transfusion class feature would have to follow this rule too, in order to be logical, but that would make the Transfusion class feature mostly ineffective...

-The spell you mentions goes a bit against the point I think, since the PC could simply bleed himself two or three times per day every morning, heal himself on the spot, and then go on his merry way with his Bloodbath ammunition on himself. That would lose the "fresh" idea of the class feature, I think. Moreover, it would enable the PC to get the ability all day long, and I' Well, to be honest, since there are several ways to remove the Bloodbath, a DM annoyed with that could reasonably easily invent on the spot a condition that would make it disappear, like "a heavy rains starts out a washes away you bath", or something like that, but that would be frustrating for the player. However, if the idea is to let the player benefit from the Bloodbath as often as possible, and sometimes make it go away in battle by sending in a grappling dire bear or something, then the spell should be just fine ! I would advise you, however, to let each casting of the spell save up only one use of blood. Since Preserve Organ is a 0th level spell, Preserve Blood should be a 0th or 1st level spell, so preparing the spell several times
*actually makes the 0th level spell slots very useful if you make it a 0th level spell
*has a modicum of opportunity cost if you make it a 1st level spell, since several 1st level spells remain useful from level 2 to 20.

I now have a few more clarification remarks.

-Can I , in the same turn, use an Arterial Spray and an Ocular Spray ? By RAW I can, since one uses standard actions and the other swift actions. But since one is the upgrade of the other, maybe you don't want that to be possible. From a mechanical point of view, it seems okay to me since at 11th level, poison has lost some of its potency already, so forcing two saves in a round does not strike me as overpowered. But I think either way, you should clearly explain this point.

-What type is the Intimidate bonus ? Untyped by purpose, or you forgot to put one ? Circumstance bonus like the Escape Artist check ?

-When you infuse your Bloodbath with your Poisonous Blood, does this mean that your unarmed attacks, etc deal the poison each time you use them, for the whole duration of the spell ? Or does using the Bloodbath in this manner scrapes the blood off your fists, meaning past a certain number of attacks it does not work anymore ? Again, either way you should clearly state how this works.

-For the inhaled version, is the 10ft cube centered on the character ? Does it follow him everywhere, or does it remain where it has been created, and the PC moves out of it afterwards ? Does a character in the cube has to make one save each round it is in this cloud, or only once ? Logic would dictate it is each round, and at level 12 it seems okay to me in terms of power, especially since it also affect the PC's allies. Can the Bloodpriest decide to temporarily suppress this effect, or does it remain in place for the whole of the duration if set up ? I ask this because otherwise, it would be very impractical to interact with allies once the battle is over.

-For the two Poisonous Blood infusion effects: is the decision to activate them directly taken when the Bloodbath is applied, and those abilities can't be activated at a later time if the Bloodpriest so wants it ? If they can, what kind of action do they take ? Can they be turned off and on at will during the duration of the Bloodbath ?

-For the paragraph saying "The bloodbath is magically bound to the character's exterior...", I suppose it is related to the 20th level Bloodbath ability. But as it is written in a separate text block, it can be misunderstood as being a general, always active property of the Bloodbath, so beware.

-I suggest you left a blank line between two descriptions of the Bloodbath effects at two different levels, to make the text less dense.

-And finally about the Transfusion class feature, for the part about metamagic reduction. As it is written, it does not have any effects.
For example, Carrie is at level 13, so she can cast 6th level spells. She wants to cast an Empowered Inflict Critical Wounds. Since she is not a spontaneous caster, she can't decide to apply the metamagic on the fly when she casts the spell, she has to prepare a metamagicked version. Thus, she uses a 6th level spell slot. Whe she casts the spell, she can:
*cast it normally
*decide to pay 2 points of Con to reduce the cost of the Empower metamagic feat from +2 to +1. She then casts Inflict Serious Wounds as if she had prepared it as a 5th level spell...but it does not change the fact that she had to use a 6th level spell slot to prepare it.

So there is no benefit from using this ability. This is why the procedure should go like this:
Carrie wants to cast an Empowered Inflict Critical Wounds. At the moment she prepares her spells, she decides that she will use the Transfusion class feature on this spell. Thus, she prepares the spell in a 5th level spell slot, rather than in a 6th level spell slot. Afterwards, Carrie can't cast this Empowered Inflict Serious Wound until she is wounded, or wounds herself. At that moment, she casts the spell and suffers 2 Con damage. The whole process has allowed her to save a 6th level spell slot.
Carrie could even prepare a Quickened Inflict Critical Wounds. This spell normally requires a 8th level spell slot, but, by deciding when she prepares her spells that she will use Transfusion for 4 points of Con damage, she can reduce the level of the spell slot required from 8th level to 6th level. Whenever she is wounded or wounds herself, she can cast this spell and instantly suffer 4 Con damage in the process.

-By the way, you should specify that the Transfusion ability does not work if the character is immune to Con damage, or else undead Bloodpriests will metamagic all of their spells to no limit.

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-20, 08:06 AM
On the other hand, by the time the Bloodpriest gains the Bloodbath ability, he has 13 ranks in Survival and a +5 Wis modifier, so a Dc 15 is an auto-succeed and a DC 20 but with a roll of 1. So implementing this ability would simply force Bloodpriests to pump Survival, but would have little other mechanical effect. It does add some flavor, though. What do you think ?
I might reduce the DC a bit, since draining blood seems (to my admittedly inexperienced eye) simpler than removing specific parts.


Even if it seems a bit weird that the PC can recognize his allies even when unconscious, i think this ability is needed from a metagame point of view.
Arguably, that is weird, but even so, I kind of envisioned it more like this:
1- Ally disturbs sleeping bloodpriest. 2- Spray triggers. 3- Bloodpriest awakens, and has a chance (based on the save) to avert the spray.
...and all of those things happening within, like, less than a second. Although now that I look at it, I suppose that would mean that the bloodpriest is automatically awakened by his spray triggering while he's asleep. That makes sense from a realism point of view; is it too abusable mechanically?


- Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell that cures 1d4 points of ability damage, so the Bloodpriest just has to bleed himself, and cure himself directly after that. In effect, Bloodbath becomes a 2nd-level spel with a 10 minutes casting time. I just noticed that, and I think it makes Bloodbath a bit too easy of access. The character can easily get the Bloodbath three or four time per day with this trick, and does not need another dead creature nearby. It sort of goes against the point. What do you think ? To prevent this, you could make the Con damage increase to 4, so that two castings of Lesser Restoration will be needed, on average.
That seems very reasonable, considering the amount of blood we're talking about.


-The spell you mentions goes a bit against the point I think, since the PC could simply bleed himself two or three times per day every morning, heal himself on the spot, and then go on his merry way with his Bloodbath ammunition on himself. That would lose the "fresh" idea of the class feature, I think.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like the notion.


-Can I , in the same turn, use an Arterial Spray and an Ocular Spray ?
I had intended that to be the case. I'll clarify it.


-What type is the Intimidate bonus ? Untyped by purpose, or you forgot to put one ? Circumstance bonus like the Escape Artist check ?
Yeah, circumstance makes sense; I'll add that.


-When you infuse your Bloodbath with your Poisonous Blood, does this mean that your unarmed attacks, etc deal the poison each time you use them, for the whole duration of the spell ? Or does using the Bloodbath in this manner scrapes the blood off your fists, meaning past a certain number of attacks it does not work anymore ? Again, either way you should clearly state how this works.
Since the infusion is magical, I figure it'll last for the entire duration, regardless of number of attacks made.


-For the inhaled version, is the 10ft cube centered on the character ? Does it follow him everywhere, or does it remain where it has been created, and the PC moves out of it afterwards ? Does a character in the cube has to make one save each round it is in this cloud, or only once ? Logic would dictate it is each round, and at level 12 it seems okay to me in terms of power, especially since it also affect the PC's allies. Can the Bloodpriest decide to temporarily suppress this effect, or does it remain in place for the whole of the duration if set up ? I ask this because otherwise, it would be very impractical to interact with allies once the battle is over.
It'd move with him, and yeah, a save each round is consistent with similar monster abilities, IIRC. I'll have to think about temporarily suppressing it, but off the top of my head I can't come up with a strong reason not to permit that.


-For the two Poisonous Blood infusion effects: is the decision to activate them directly taken when the Bloodbath is applied, and those abilities can't be activated at a later time if the Bloodpriest so wants it ? If they can, what kind of action do they take ? Can they be turned off and on at will during the duration of the Bloodbath ?
I can clarify this a bit, yeah. The intention was that after the bloodbath is applied, they can add the infusion.


-For the paragraph saying "The bloodbath is magically bound to the character's exterior...", I suppose it is related to the 20th level Bloodbath ability. But as it is written in a separate text block, it can be misunderstood as being a general, always active property of the Bloodbath, so beware.
-I suggest you left a blank line between two descriptions of the Bloodbath effects at two different levels, to make the text less dense.
Yeah, I'll reorganize that a bit.


-And finally about the Transfusion class feature, for the part about metamagic reduction. As it is written, it does not have any effects.
... This is why the procedure should go like this:
Carrie wants to cast an Empowered Inflict Critical Wounds. At the moment she prepares her spells, she decides that she will use the Transfusion class feature on this spell. Thus, she prepares the spell in a 5th level spell slot, rather than in a 6th level spell slot. Afterwards, Carrie can't cast this Empowered Inflict Serious Wound until she is wounded, or wounds herself. At that moment, she casts the spell and suffers 2 Con damage. The whole process has allowed her to save a 6th level spell slot.
Carrie could even prepare a Quickened Inflict Critical Wounds. This spell normally requires a 8th level spell slot, but, by deciding when she prepares her spells that she will use Transfusion for 4 points of Con damage, she can reduce the level of the spell slot required from 8th level to 6th level. Whenever she is wounded or wounds herself, she can cast this spell and instantly suffer 4 Con damage in the process.
Good catch, thanks. I get turned around easily on the whole spontaneous/prepared metamagic rules.


-By the way, you should specify that the Transfusion ability does not work if the character is immune to Con damage, or else undead Bloodpriests will metamagic all of their spells to no limit.
That'd apply to bloodbath too (if using their own blood). I'll add that in. I guess vampires might think twice about this class!

remetagross
2016-10-20, 09:18 PM
About the automatic awaking effect of Reflex Spray, since the PC gets it at level 13, I think it certainly is not overpowered.
However, I just realised the ability as-written has the strange effect to prevent any Bloodpriest from having a good night's rest: anytimee he is unconscious because he is merely asleep, rather than because he was knocked out in battle, he will suddenly awake each time his domestic cat decides to cuddle up against him during his sleep :) And a lover sharing his bed might be in for quite a surprise too !
Ok, these remarks are of anecdotical relevance to be sure, but in order for the players not to face unexpected roleplaying trouble because of this ability, I would suggest that the Bloodpriest can choose not to activate it when he is going to fall into any form of willing unconsciousness, like sleep or when he is under the effect of an Astral Projection spell for example.

About the Survival part, i'd say that blood is difficult to harvest because it coagulates quickly and does not easily flow from the wounds of a corpse - that said, I don't think anyone will blink an eye however you set the DC, because this Survival Check is going to be succeeded by the PC anyway, so there is no problem to fluff it the way you want.

Are you considering playtesting the class, or are you already doing so ? I'd like to know how it performs ! :) And could I borrow it for a game or two ?

remetagross

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-21, 05:58 AM
About the automatic awaking effect of Reflex Spray, since the PC gets it at level 13, I think it certainly is not overpowered.
However, I just realised the ability as-written has the strange effect to prevent any Bloodpriest from having a good night's rest: anytimee he is unconscious because he is merely asleep, rather than because he was knocked out in battle, he will suddenly awake each time his domestic cat decides to cuddle up against him during his sleep :) And a lover sharing his bed might be in for quite a surprise too !
Ok, these remarks are of anecdotical relevance to be sure, but in order for the players not to face unexpected roleplaying trouble because of this ability, I would suggest that the Bloodpriest can choose not to activate it when he is going to fall into any form of willing unconsciousness, like sleep or when he is under the effect of an Astral Projection spell for example.
Maybe it can be handled more simply. Something like "The magic in your blood speaks to you, alerting you to emergencies in your immediate area. If you or a nearby" [whatever range] "ally are attacked" [or threatened or something] "while you are unconscious," the spray triggers and wakes you up at the same moment, while still keeping the save to avoid targeting a particular person with said spray.

It could also be more limited by tying it to a new "mood-sensing" class feature: "Your blood speaks to the blood of others, giving you insight into their hearts. You function at all times, even when unconscious, as if under the effects of a detect attitude spell (Dragon #323, pg. 70), except that you can only detect the attitude of creatures with blood or blood-like circulatory fluid*. If a creature registers as hostile, you are aware of it and may use a spray ability as an immediate action, and if you are unconscious when this occurs, you wake up"...?

* = This would apply to plant creatures with sap, presumably to vampires...possibly to certain constructs that use oil??...


Are you considering playtesting the class, or are you already doing so ? I'd like to know how it performs ! :) And could I borrow it for a game or two ?
Please do!! I am leaning towards rolling up a nonevil orc NPC with this class for an upcoming campaign, but playing out a class as an NPC is never quite the same as when it's a PC.

remetagross
2016-10-21, 11:53 AM
It could also be more limited by tying it to a new "mood-sensing" class feature: "Your blood speaks to the blood of others, giving you insight into their hearts. You function at all times, even when unconscious, as if under the effects of a detect attitude spell (Dragon #323, pg. 70), except that you can only detect the attitude of creatures with blood or blood-like circulatory fluid*. If a creature registers as hostile, you are aware of it and may use a spray ability as an immediate action, and if you are unconscious when this occurs, you wake up"...?

* = This would apply to plant creatures with sap, presumably to vampires...possibly to certain constructs that use oil??...


This is pretty awesome !! Just check if the Detect Attitude spell is supposed to work on undead, plants and constructs, and the ability is good to go !
If the Detect Attitude spell relie on caster level for something other than duration, you should precise the caster level here, usually the class level. Then, you decide wether you make this Supernatural or Spell-like, the only difference (for an always-on ability) being that a Spell-like ability can be dispelled, whereas a Supernatural cannot.

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-21, 04:23 PM
OK, I added that detect attitude thing as "Heartsense," which bloodpriests get at level 5, and then clarified how reflex bleeding works in conjunction with heartsense.

remetagross
2016-10-21, 11:30 PM
Ok, seems clear to me !

While rereading the class one more time, I noticed five more things (it nevers ends :smalltongue:)

-When you specifiy that a Bloodpriest can bleed herself or an ally, as written the Bloodpriest does not need to be armed at all. This means she can technically bleed herself with her bare hands. At first sight, this seemed an oversight to me, but on second thought, it sort of makes sense for a Bloodpriest to have particularly long nails for that purpose, for example. So I think whether the Bloodpriest needs to be armed (by RAW, including Improved Unarmed Strike in the process) or not to bleed herself or someone else, it makes sense from a thematical point of view. From a mechanical point of view, allowing an unarmed Bloodpriest to bleed herself helps her to evade from the dungeon she has been thrown in, as the guards have removed her weaponry. But sporting long nails is quite a giveway that you are a Bloodpriest then :)
Whatever choice you make, I would advise you, as always, to expressely state it.

-For the Transfusion ability. As written, it takes an immediate action to reduce the metamagic cost of a spell. This means that, in effect, any spell you prepare with the Transfusion ability now has a casting time increased by an immediate action. The consequence is that the Transfusion ability cannot apply to spells with a swift or immediate action casting time, nor can it work with the Quicken Spell metamagic feat since it changes the casting time of the spell to a swift action.
I don't find it very intuitive that using the Transfusion ability actually costs an action; and I think it greatly reduces the power of this class feature. Not being able to Quicken spells with it is noticeable, this is one of the first things an 18th level Bloodpriest will want to do; moreover, you swift/immediate action slots are already used up by the Ocular Spray/Reflex Spray, Swift Improved Feint and Anoint Ally's Weapon class feature. In addition, you can't cast things like Extended Swift Invisibility.
I think this ability would need to cost no more than a free action.

-For the Bloodbath ability, you did not change the Con cost to supply one liter of one's own blood from 2 to 4;

-For the ability to infuse your Bloodbath with a contact version of your Poisonous Blood, you did not specify the action cost if you do it at a later time than when you apply the Bloodbath. Since you wrote for the inhaled version that this is a move action, I suppose this should be a move action here too.

-For the inhaled Poisonous Blood, I thought of a line which appears in most gas-based effects, and I think it should appear here too: it is the description of the wind needed to blow away the gas. An opponent could target you with Gusts of Wind to eliminate your gas and force you to spend a move action to reinstate it. The standard gas spelll, Fog Cloud, states "A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the fog in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. " I think the gas created by the Bloodbath is less thick or as thick as a Fog Cloud, so these characteristics should somewhat apply , I suppose ?

What do you think ?

remetagross

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-23, 08:59 AM
For bleeding herself or an (adjacent) ally, I put: "A bloodpriest need not be armed in either case, provided that she has teeth or fingernails." Seems to me a bloodpriest would be able to draw blood from herself with a bite :smalleek:


-For the Transfusion ability. As written, it takes an immediate action to reduce the metamagic cost of a spell. ... I think this ability would need to cost no more than a free action.
I think I went with immediate for thematic reasons, but your points make sense, so I changed it.


-For the ability to infuse your Bloodbath with a contact version of your Poisonous Blood, you did not specify the action cost if you do it at a later time than when you apply the Bloodbath. Since you wrote for the inhaled version that this is a move action, I suppose this should be a move action here too.
Yeah, and I also specified that if you use ocular spray to do it, it's not the ocular spray swift action PLUS a move action, just one move action.

I also added the Fog Cloud-based wind rules.

Now here's a question: for the contact bloodbath infusion, would it be too potent to add Ingestion simultaneous/coexistent with the Contact effect? So that a creature who bites or swallows the bloodpriest has to make the same save? It strikes me as both logical and (heh) flavorful.

remetagross
2016-10-23, 11:02 AM
I don't think it would. The Bloodpriest has few little HPs and 3/4 BAB, this class is clearly not designed to go full melee. A Bloodpriest who has the cajones to tackle on the 12-headed Cryohydra head-on, in order to poison it and make it poison itself as often as possible by both of their natural attacks, is unlikely to be still in the positives at the end of the turn.

Either the Bloodpriest plays it cautiously, given his frailty, and does not remain at melee long enough to deal a full-round attack nor to receive one, and then the ability triggers no more than two or three times, which is fair. Or the Bloodpriest has dedicated himself to melee and charges in. In this case, the character probably has devolved a lot of time, gold pieces and magic items to making himself usable in this role, and has wasted a great deal of his class features. In this case, the character has deserved to trigger the ability a great number of times.

Finally, remember that Poison immunity and insanely high Fort saves are far from uncommon at those levels.

So I'd say keep it, is is flavorful :smallbiggrin:

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-24, 09:15 AM
OK, I added that in. I also (belatedly) took a look at the blood magus PrC (Complete Arcane or Mage, I forget which), and I'm happy to report that not only this does not step on its toes in any significant way, but it wouldn't even be redundant for a hypothetical multiclass bloodpriest/arcane-caster to go into blood magus. Whether it would be OPTimal is another matter, but *shrug* :smalltongue:

remetagross
2016-10-24, 11:08 PM
Ah, this is great ! :D

Well in that case I suppose the Bloodpriest is good to go :)

OttoVonBigby
2016-10-30, 09:50 AM
Minor edit: it occurred to me that, in keeping with the slightly more "wild" flavor of the class, they should get druid-style rez magic (e.g. reincarnate, last breath) and not the more cleric-y ones (raise dead and resurrection), so I made that adjustment to the spell list.

remetagross
2016-10-30, 09:20 PM
Yeah, good point. This further differentiates them from Clerics, too.