Issue with Charm.

[SMac8988]

A little back story as to why I have an issue with this spell, at times.

Last night while playing Curse of Strahd with friends the Lord himself showed up and tried to stroll on by. I am playing a devote paladin and stepped in front of him. Tried to talk through everything and see if I could sway him, and it didn't work. Fine. I get he isn't one to be swayed away from his goals.

But then he charmed me. Now we are a decent bit of play time in, and I'm finally coming strong into the character and how I want him played. He knows strhad is bad, and has no trust for what he says and being lawful good would never risk anyone's life trusting him, that's a fact is his mind. But then I get charmed and forget all that? Seems odd.

I dealt with it by Griswold seeing himself as a threat to the rest of the group if he followed where strahd was heading and instead walked away. Making the charm less effective and keeping me from giving him more information than he needed.

I just don't like how my character can have such a soild view of someone and it's swayed so easily.

That's my gripe...

[Specter]

Yep, it's like real-world hypnosis. But don't sweat it, at level 7 you're immune to charm.

[Isidorios]

It's Magic friendo.
Just like you can't resist a failed save against Polymorph by having "a really good sense of self".

The DM has every justification to play your actions at that point if you are incapable/unwilling to roleplay them correctly.

Oh, and "good" people you like are extremely unlikely to Charm you in the first place.

[pwykersotz]

Yeah, charms are a dangerous tool. One I don't like to use much. I replace most enemies charm abilities with differing ones. Still, remember that it's magical compulsion and it isn't forever. Don't try to fight it by lawyering it, embrace it instead. It makes the narrative interesting, and it doesn't violate your character concept, it reinforces the NPC's concept. It gives you a reason to hate Strahd and seek justice. It gives you a reason why your paladin powers to become immune to charms are so important, and why the gods give them to you after you pray dearly for such a crime to never happen again.

[SMac8988]

Oh I did. I went from defensive to like overly polite and kind. Allowing him through the gates and standing aside as he walked. I rationalized that, Griswold may trust him and think of the best strahd can be, but he did not trust himself to make the best choices for the group, knowing strhad was there to take a certain someone, and knowing he cares to keep her safe. He simply said he would stay at the gate, to keep it secured.

That seemed fair at the time, but I could be wrong. He didn't ask or tell me to come with, so idk.

[Zevox]

Well, Charm spells are literally a form of mind-control, so yeah, they can be frustrating. Heck, it's even built in to the spells that people will react badly to you using them on them in this edition, since they automatically get to know what you did once the spell wears off. Generally, it's best not use them too much.

That said, depending on the exact spell used, you may some leeway. There's none with the most potent, like Dominate Person or a Succubus' charm ability, but something lower-level like the basic Charm Person is not full mind control, it just forces the target to be friendly to the caster and see them in the best light possible. There are still plenty of things it's totally reasonable to say a target charmed by that spell won't do for the person who charmed them, depending on the characters and the circumstances. Unfortunately I don't know what the exact Charm ability Stradh is capable of is, nor what goes on in that adventure, so I can't speak to your particular case, though.

[MeeposFire]

Well, Charm spells are literally a form of mind-control, so yeah, they can be frustrating. Heck, it's even built in to the spells that people will react badly to you using them on them in this edition, since they automatically get to know what you did once the spell wears off. Generally, it's best not use them too much.

That said, depending on the exact spell used, you may some leeway. There's none with the most potent, like Dominate Person or a Succubus' charm ability, but something lower-level like the basic Charm Person is not full mind control, it just forces the target to be friendly to the caster and see them in the best light possible. There are still plenty of things it's totally reasonable to say a target charmed by that spell won't do for the person who charmed them, depending on the characters and the circumstances. Unfortunately I don't know what the exact Charm ability Stradh is capable of is, nor what goes on in that adventure, so I can't speak to your particular case, though.

Numerous people forget that in this edition basic charm person no longer lets you just command people to do stuff and they do it reliably. It just lets you be seen as being friendly and have advantage on checks to them. If it is like basic charm then he could get you to do many things but if you would not do it for a friend then you probably would not do it for him either (though if he is smart he find a way around that problem).

[Specter]

Numerous people forget that in this edition basic charm person no longer lets you just command people to do stuff and they do it reliably. It just lets you be seen as being friendly and have advantage on checks to them. If it is like basic charm then he could get you to do many things but if you would not do it for a friend then you probably would not do it for him either (though if he is smart he find a way around that problem).

Advantage on charms is Friends. Charm Person just makes you their buddy.

[MeeposFire]

Advantage on charms is Friends. Charm Person just makes you their buddy.

Actually Friends does not give out the charmed condition. Charm Person does. What the condition does is prevent you from doing hostile actions to the caster and grants the caster advantage on all social checks with the creature. IN addition charm person also makes the target treat you like a friendly acquaintance (to me that is less than a buddy but that is really semantics I would say). So charm person does grant you advantage with social interactions with the target since it does charm the target.

[ad_hoc]

Unfortunately I don't know what the exact Charm ability Stradh is capable of is, nor what goes on in that adventure, so I can't speak to your particular case, though.

It isn't full control like Dominate Person but you do like Strahd enough that you are happy to allow him to bite you. You are also supposed to protect him.

[MeeposFire]

It isn't full control like Dominate Person but you do like Strahd enough that you are happy to allow him to bite you. You are also supposed to protect him.

I am going to guess that his ability is better than standard charm person because I cannot see fighting your friends lethally for a friendly acquaintance or let them bite me. I don't let any of my friends bite me.

Now try to stop my friends from killing him? Sure though not by attacking them. Put myself in the way, grapple and the like would be acceptable to me.

[Ghost Nappa]

A little back story as to why I have an issue with this spell, at times.

Last night while playing Curse of Strahd with friends the Lord himself showed up and tried to stroll on by. I am playing a devote paladin and stepped in front of him. Tried to talk through everything and see if I could sway him, and it didn't work. Fine. I get he isn't one to be swayed away from his goals.

But then he charmed me. Now we are a decent bit of play time in, and I'm finally coming strong into the character and how I want him played. He knows strhad is bad, and has no trust for what he says and being lawful good would never risk anyone's life trusting him, that's a fact is his mind. But then I get charmed and forget all that? Seems odd.

I dealt with it by Griswold seeing himself as a threat to the rest of the group if he followed where strahd was heading and instead walked away. Making the charm less effective and keeping me from giving him more information than he needed.

I just don't like how my character can have such a soild view of someone and it's swayed so easily.

That's my gripe...

You shouldn't.

The way to handle being Charmed isn't "I WILL DO YOUR BIDDING," it's "Oh, hi, friend!" The reaction you're looking for is more of something like this, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWynPcFRzWU&t=3m40s). It's not a "I don't want to fight you," it's a "I'm not in the mood right now."

Charm Person is essentially pointless on members of your own party, unless you're in a situation where someone is trying to leave the party.

[SMac8988]

I am going to guess that his ability is better than standard charm person because I cannot see fighting your friends lethally for a friendly acquaintance or let them bite me. I don't let any of my friends bite me.

You and I have clearly differing views of friendship.

Lol I get it. Would any DM'S be upset with my method of solving my situation? Simply removing myself for the danger j inflect on the group?

[Isidorios]

You and I have clearly differing views of friendship.

Lol I get it. Would any DM'S be upset with my method of solving my situation? Simply removing myself for the danger j inflect on the group?

Generally DMs aren't pleased to have their players metagame their way out of a disadvantageous situation. Until the Charm expires you are in no way aware that you are Charmed. You are just under the belief that Strahd is one of your close bosom buddies.

Conniving your way out of it is simply bad roleplaying.

[CaptainSarathai]

You and I have clearly differing views of friendship.

Lol I get it. Would any DM'S be upset with my method of solving my situation? Simply removing myself for the danger j inflect on the group?
Yes. And for this reason:


players metagame their way out of a disadvantageous situation.
...
Conniving your way out of it is simply bad roleplaying.

Charmed effects can be pretty potent at my table, because if I feel someone is metagaming, I will take their character.

When hit with Charm Person, you don't know that you're Charmed, and even if you did, you don't care. Strahd rolls up, winks at you and your character just says -
"Oh, it's you. You're that Strahd guy everyone's been talking about - you don't seem so bad. I mean, I know everyone says Vampires are horrible people and stuff, but like, you're different, man. I'm happy to call you a friend, I don't even care what the others say about you. Let them try to hurt my new best friend, I'll tear their throats out myself!
Oh, hey Party-Friends! Meet my new buddy, Strahd. Wow - you're gonna pull swords out just like that? That's seriously messed up, guys. I can't believe I hang out with such Necrophobes - reeeeeally not chill, guys."

And the thing is, it doesn't break your character's RP persona. You were under mind-control. Nobody can blame you for what happened, or what you did, unless they're just implying that you're weak for allowing yourself to be mind-controlled so easily.

[MeeposFire]

Generally DMs aren't pleased to have their players metagame their way out of a disadvantageous situation. Until the Charm expires you are in no way aware that you are Charmed. You are just under the belief that Strahd is one of your close bosom buddies.

Conniving your way out of it is simply bad roleplaying.

It says friendly acquaintance not bosom buddies. I might give my closest friend a loan of money of some amount but I would not do that for a friendly acquaintance however I would try to help him fix his car. There is a big difference between close friend and being friendly. To grant that level of control would likely take a stronger spell, a very careful set of requests that get you what you want without directly asking for something you would not do for a friendly acquaintance (difficult but possible such as asking you to lethally attack your friends would not likely work if you are close to them but asking you to stop them from hurting you with non-lethal means is fair game), or hope that you are really REALLY friendly.

[SMac8988]

My thought was I want to help him, but at the same time I don't want to risk the otjers I swore on my oath to protect. Not that strhad is walking there to kill them or not, I figured I would at least know enough that if I went with I would let him in and the others may not want that. So I had him hold the gate, since I had sent all the guards tk defend everyone else.

I see the point though about getting out of a bad spot. Couple more levels then I'll get to ignore it. Yay

[Battlebooze]

A little back story as to why I have an issue with this spell, at times.

Last night while playing Curse of Strahd with friends the Lord himself showed up and tried to stroll on by. I am playing a devote paladin and stepped in front of him. Tried to talk through everything and see if I could sway him, and it didn't work. Fine. I get he isn't one to be swayed away from his goals.

But then he charmed me. Now we are a decent bit of play time in, and I'm finally coming strong into the character and how I want him played. He knows strhad is bad, and has no trust for what he says and being lawful good would never risk anyone's life trusting him, that's a fact is his mind. But then I get charmed and forget all that? Seems odd.

The best way to think of this is that under the charm spell your character suddenly decides "Hey, this Strahd guy isn't so bad after all! I must have been wrong about him, I should really give him a chance..."
Note that the charm spell is broken if the caster does anything harmful to the target or friends. In theory, a good acting roll by one of your friends might be able to break you out of the charm. "Oh god, Strahd is life draining me! I'm dying!"


I dealt with it by Griswold seeing himself as a threat to the rest of the group if he followed where Strahd was heading and instead walked away. Making the charm less effective and keeping me from giving him more information than he needed.

I can kind of see this. Just because you think is Strahd is a decent guy for a vampire, that doesn't mean you want your friends hanging out with him. If you know he's dangerous, you don't think he's less dangerous after the charm. You just don't think he will hurt YOU. If Strahd didn't specifically ask you to follow him around... Yea, leaving is a very good plan. A smartly run Strahd would charm your character and then ask them to follow him around to keep the peace with your "confused" friends. Then you would be out of luck and stuck.



I just don't like how my character can have such a soild view of someone and it's swayed so easily.

That's my gripe...

That's the power of magic. It's not high level magic, but it's magic. There are ways to deal with it though and Charm Person isn't the end of the world. After it wears off, you know what he did and you can tell your party what he can do. Then you can be more prepared the next time.