How to make a Herald from Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series?

[danpit2991]

so what class or multiclass would most reflect a valdemar herald?

i know that not everyone is familiar with this series so here is the wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velgarth

i am thinking devotion pally/ sorcerer would be the best fit or perhaps fighter/favored soul what do you think? im trying to capture essence over uber effectivness

[Temperjoke]

Are you talking about a regular Herald or a Mage-Herald? Realistically, any of the classes could be a Herald as long as the character possesses one of the usual Herald mind magic abilities. I do think that an Oath of the Crown paladin would be good for it, for multiclass if not main class, given how the Heralds are devoted to the kingdom (although they see the kingdom as the people rather than the land itself).

EDIT: You could duplicate most of the basic mind-magic gifts with the Magic Initiate feat, in fact, so you could use any class you wanted.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The absolute key element there is the Companion, methinks-- there are plenty of Heralds with insignificantly weak gifts, and even those who have them rarely use them for anything worthwhile. So that meas you need a special horsie, which means either Paladin/Bard (for Find Steed) or Beast Master Ranger-- preferably the revised Ranger from UA, using a CR 1/4 Riding Horse as your companion. Of those options, I'd probably go with the Ranger. It comes online sooner, and the Ranger's focus on skills and nature certainly seem to fit most Heralds. Beast Bond should be the first spell you learn, and you should beg your DM to let you have it up constantly, in fact.

[danpit2991]

i diddnt think about magic initiate i was thinking herald mage so i figured favored soul but bard might be better just refluff the music crap

[Grod_The_Giant]

i diddnt think about magic initiate i was thinking herald mage so i figured favored soul but bard might be better just refluff the music crap
Mmm. The Herald Mages are nuts, generally speaking, but yeah... apart from needing the horsie, I think a Sorcerer or Wizard would be best. Herald Mages weren't gishes, not really, and Mercedes Lackey's magic is rarely subtle-- combat mages are always throwing around fireballs and "levin bolts" and the like. Bard would be too indirect, I think.

[Sigreid]

It's been a while since I read those books, but if I recall correctly the Ancients paladin actually matches up in powers and philosophy pretty nicely.

[Temperjoke]

Well, if you wanted to be a Herald-Mage, then I'd do a mix of Paladin and either Sorcerer or Bard. Both know their spells innately, which is how Herald Mages act. The balance of spell-flinging versus sword-swinging will affect where you want to put your emphasis on. Personally, I'd go with Oath of Crown paladin and Storm Sorcerer.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Mmm. The Herald Mages are nuts, generally speaking, but yeah... apart from needing the horsie, I think a Sorcerer or Wizard would be best. Herald Mages weren't gishes, not really, and Mercedes Lackey's magic is rarely subtle-- combat mages are always throwing around fireballs and "levin bolts" and the like. Bard would be too indirect, I think.

Mmmm... not exactly. The only real 'herald mages' we get to see are either Vanyel or Elspeth. In either case, you're talking about one of the most powerful casters on the known planet at the time. With Elspeth being backed up by another two Adepts, including the Healing-Adept Firesong. They have the power to toss around for impressive feats.

But if you go back to the Oathbound series, Kethry, a White Winds mage, has all kinds of less blatant forms of magic at her fingertips, and generally prefers to do things less flashy, and implied that this is the White Winds philosophy regarding magic. Now, post-Storms, White Winds was one of the schools of magic who sent instructors to teach the new Herald Mages. It is entirely possible that you've got some Herald Mages (particularly those of a somewhat larcenous background) to focus on such... less obvious magics.

Furthermore, if you look at the Owl trilogy, you actually get a chance to see non-Adepts at work, and how they tend to prefer less visible magic as well.

The only problem is that Bards are a different thing, and I don't think there was any Herald, much less Herald Mage, who also had the Bardic gift (other than Vanyel, who pretty much had ALL the gifts).

Most Herald Mages were, at least to some degree, Gishes. Simply because all Heralds, including Herald Mages, are officers of the Queen first and foremost, which includes martial training part and parcel as core curriculum, including mandatory training in Archery (for reasons other than shooting people...) and at least some kind of melee weapon. The more famous Herald Mages were badass because you're basically looking at epic-level characters. After all, even at 1/2 BAB, at level 20, you've got the same BAB as a 10th level Fighter, so all those level 4 and 5 dudes are going 'dayum, he's one hell of a fighter'. Then, of course, you have your reality-warping magics to back it up.

The only thing in common with the Heralds is the Companion. That's literally it. You can be dang near any class, toss minimal combat and proficiency in Longbow, and you're done.

[Temperjoke]

Mmmm... not exactly. The only real 'herald mages' we get to see are either Vanyel or Elspeth. In either case, you're talking about one of the most powerful casters on the known planet at the time. With Elspeth being backed up by another two Adepts, including the Healing-Adept Firesong. They have the power to toss around for impressive feats.

But if you go back to the Oathbound series, Kethry, a White Winds mage, has all kinds of less blatant forms of magic at her fingertips, and generally prefers to do things less flashy, and implied that this is the White Winds philosophy regarding magic. Now, post-Storms, White Winds was one of the schools of magic who sent instructors to teach the new Herald Mages. It is entirely possible that you've got some Herald Mages (particularly those of a somewhat larcenous background) to focus on such... less obvious magics.

Furthermore, if you look at the Owl trilogy, you actually get a chance to see non-Adepts at work, and how they tend to prefer less visible magic as well.

The only problem is that Bards are a different thing, and I don't think there was any Herald, much less Herald Mage, who also had the Bardic gift (other than Vanyel, who pretty much had ALL the gifts).

Most Herald Mages were, at least to some degree, Gishes. Simply because all Heralds, including Herald Mages, are officers of the Queen first and foremost, which includes martial training part and parcel as core curriculum, including mandatory training in Archery (for reasons other than shooting people...) and at least some kind of melee weapon. The more famous Herald Mages were badass because you're basically looking at epic-level characters. After all, even at 1/2 BAB, at level 20, you've got the same BAB as a 10th level Fighter, so all those level 4 and 5 dudes are going 'dayum, he's one hell of a fighter'. Then, of course, you have your reality-warping magics to back it up.

The only thing in common with the Heralds is the Companion. That's literally it. You can be dang near any class, toss minimal combat and proficiency in Longbow, and you're done.

To kind of support this, Vanyel was powerful enough to fully replace 5 Heralds on the Karse front lines until reinforcements were brought in. There were 4 Herald-Mage Adepts in Vanyel's time who were responsible for maintaining the Web, an alert system that warned the Heralds. So most of the noted ones were more powerful than the average, but the books also didn't really have a good classification based on spells known; it was more about what power a mage could tap into, with master level able to tap ley lines, and Adepts able to tap nodes, I believe. They also didn't explain about what sort of power growth you could see with training.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Mmmm... not exactly. The only real 'herald mages' we get to see are either Vanyel or Elspeth. In either case, you're talking about one of the most powerful casters on the known planet at the time. With Elspeth being backed up by another two Adepts, including the Healing-Adept Firesong. They have the power to toss around for impressive feats.
Eh, true. I forgot about the Owls trilogy. But those weren't Heralds. Herald-Mages all have Companions, who are ridiculously high-level sources of magic in and of themselves-- even a Journeyman Herald-Mage would have a huge power source to work with.

[hamishspence]

The only problem is that Bards are a different thing, and I don't think there was any Herald, much less Herald Mage, who also had the Bardic gift (other than Vanyel, who pretty much had ALL the gifts).

Some Heralds were originally studying at Bardic Collegium before being Chosen - but not many. Jadus from the first book (Arrows of the Queen), I think, was one.

While a few Heralds have Healing - it's nearly always a minor ability with some other ability, more powerful, being the main one (Companions generally avoid choosing primary Healers - the sole exception was Randale's lover, around the same time Randale's terminal illness began to manifest itself).

[Temperjoke]

Some Heralds were originally studying at Bardic Collegium before being Chosen - but not many. Jadus from the first book (Arrows of the Queen), I think, was one.

While a few Heralds have Healing - it's nearly always a minor ability with some other ability, more powerful, being the main one (Companions generally avoid choosing primary Healers - the sole exception was Randale's lover, around the same time Randale's terminal illness began to manifest itself).

Even that was a major exception, as the Companion that chose her is a unique one, as the Herald automatically becomes the King's Own Herald (or Queen's Own, depending on the ruler), and the Companion was directly sent from heaven, and had multiple partners over time (instead of one life, one bond), as opposed to being born like normal ones (who were Heralds given the choice to reincarnate as a companion).

[hamishspence]

That Companion gets killed a lot - but I think there's a strong implication that every time they are killed, they get reincarnated. Sometimes they choose a different name - but the names that tend to recur are Rolan and Taver.

Initially (when Baron Valdemar first cast the spell/prayer that summoned the Companions, he was one of many, but after the Companions started reproducing, I think the "Grove-Born" Companions dwindled in numbers to just him. And of course at some point, some of those "natural-born" Companions started being reborn Heralds, until by the "present day" it may be safe to say that they all are except him and Gwena (new Grove-born, created specifically for Elspeth since they'd decided Herald-Mages would be needed again).