Rules for Non Tolkienish Elves?

[2D8HP]

I want to "homebrew" Elves/Fairies/Sidhe that are different ftom the usual Elves in Tolkien's LotR and most Dungeons & Dragons settings, and I'm asking for rules mechanics "crunch" suggestions to match my world building "fluff".

Since I'm trying for "Elves" that are more "Folklore" and less "Tolkien", the seperation of evil Drow"Dark Elves", from good Tolkien style "Light" Elves, just doesn't seem to fit with for example, the British folklore collected by Katharine Briggs,

I want to have the "Fair Folk" be an apt metaphor for capricious weather, nature, and how the "gentry" treat the peasantry.
You may be blessed and rewarded, but you may also be whipped and hanged.
Besides stories from before all of us were born (unless some of the "good neighbors" are reading this, I beg.your pardon, and I set out the saucer of milk your lord and ladyship's!),the best fictional representations I've seen of how I want to portray"the goodly one's" has been the novel and short stories of Poul Anderson, Susanna Clark, and Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE.




But this other roving intelligence... it’d go in and out of another mind like a chainsaw, taking, taking, taking. She could sense the shape of it, the predatory shape, all cruelty and cool unkindness; a mind full of intelligence, that’d use other living things and hurt them because it was fun.
She could put a name to a mind like that.
Elf
----
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvelous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meanings.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad".

These Wikipedia articles may give better guidance on what I'm after.

Huldufolk (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulduf%C3%B3lk)

Fairy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy)

Elf (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf)

So basically a "monster", rather than a "PC race" (which is ironic since most of my own PC's are elves or half-elves).
I want the "Elves" to be:
1) Vulnerable to Iron.
2) Shy away from Holy Symbols.
3) Powers of Illusion.
4) Ability to "Charm".
5) Prefer twilight, and shaded woods to bright sunlight.

In the old days I would just narrate the "Fluff", but I want to do this "by the book", so how best to model this 5e rules-wise?

Maybe elements of the Gnome, Hag, Rakshasa, and/or Vampire?

What do you suggest?

[JackPhoenix]

Check the (non-4e) Eladrin, they are the fey(ish) nobility. What are you suggesting doesn't work as a balanced playable race, and while 5e is lacking in fey so far, there are some good homebrews out there.

[Strill]

I'd recommend something about fey being bound by promises. In many stories about fairies, like Childe Rowland, or Tam Lin, or Rumplestiltskin, powerful fairies are rendered helpless against the protagonist because they made a promise of some kind, and cannot go back on it.


1) Vulnerable to Iron. There's several ways you could do this. Give them a Vulnerability to iron, give them resistance to weapons except those made of iron, give them some other special protection that can be bypassed by iron, make it so they take extra damage from touching iron.


Shy away from Holy Symbols.Turn undead affects Fey as well. Simple. Alternatively, you could make clerics choose between Turn Undead or Turn Fey.


Powers of Illusion.In terms of D&D game balance, illusion spells don't even factor into a monster's power level because they don't deal damage. You can really do whatever you like here. Give all fey Minor Illusion, and give stronger ones Major Illusion or Mirage Arcane.


Ability to "Charm".Give them Charm Person at-will. Again, it doesn't affect the game balance because it's not an ability that deals damage.


Prefer twilight, and shaded woods to bright sunlight. Give them the drow's disadvantage when in direct sunlight.

[Naanomi]

Just call various Fae creatures 'elves' and it solves 90% of what you are talking about

[mgshamster]

Check out the elves in Hellboy 2. They're kind of a more germanic version of elves. Meaner, badass, darker, more monster-like than tolkein.

Should fit in to what you're looking for.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Are you looking for something balanced to PC races, or custom monsters? For monsters, Strill's suggestions are pretty good.

If I may toot my own horn, I wrote up a bunch of Slavic-type fey as PC races for a campaign here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491792-A-whole-mess-of-custom-races). I covered rusalka (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusalka), bagiennik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagiennik), psoglav (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psoglav), and stuhac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuha%C4%87), all with varying flavors of nastiness.

[CaptainSarathai]

Sounds like a Drow, honestly. Swap their Drow Magic for Illusion and Charm spells. I'd also apply the same "Drow Fix" I apply to my PCs - swap Bright Light and Dim Light. They see normally in Dim Light, and have DisAdv. on Perception checks in Bright Light. Offset the power-boost by having anyone with 'Turn Undead' also have a version which targets the Fey, for free (or just have Turn Undead work on Fey)

[bid]

I prefer the Ars Magica take on faeries. They feed on human vitality and will take whichever role will work.

Seelie will put their victims through positive stories to feed from the resulting happiness. Unseelie could take vampire roles and feed on terror, blood being the side effect.

And they don't care if they are foiled, it's still a story that can feed them. Including faking their death.

[djreynolds]

I prefer the Ars Magica take on faeries. They feed on human vitality and will take whichever role will work.

Seelie will put their victims through positive stories to feed from the resulting happiness. Unseelie could take vampire roles and feed on terror, blood being the side effect.

And they don't care if they are foiled, it's still a story that can feed them. Including faking their death.

Be an elf, but take some of the half-orc package

[2D8HP]

Thanks!
I got some rest good ideas from this thread.
I think combining the features.of the Drow, Eladrin, Fey, High Elves, and Wood Elves can work, and make a more interesting entity for PC's to encounter.

I found some more folklore here:

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Elf

And I'll share a ballad and a poem:

True Thomas lay on Huntlie bank;
A ferlie he spied wi' his e'e,
And there he saw a ladye bright
Come riding down by the Eildon Tree.

Her skirt was o' the grass-green silk,
Her mantle o' the velvet fyne;
At ilka tett o' her horse's mane,
Hung fifty siller bells and nine.

True Thomas he pu'd aff his cap,
And louted low down on his knee
"Hail to thee Mary, Queen of Heaven!
For thy peer on earth could never be."

"Oh no, Oh no, Thomas" she said,
"That name does not belang to me.
I'm but the Queen o' fair Elfland,
That am hither come to visit thee".

"Harp and carp, Thomas" she said;
"Harp and carp along wi' me,
And if ye dare to kiss my lips
Sure of your bodie I will be".

"Betide me weal, betide me woe,
That weird shall never daunten me."
Syne he has kissed her rosy lips,
All underneath the Eildon Tree.

"Now ye maun go wi' me" she said,
"True Thomas, ye maun go wi' me,
And ye maun serve me seven years,
Thro' weal or woe as may chance to be".

She's mounted on her milk-white steed,
She's ta'en true Thomas up behind,
And aye,.whene'er her bridle rang
The steed gaed swifter than the wind.

Oh, they rade on, and farther on,
The steed gaed swifter than the wind,
Until they reached a desert wide
And living land was left behind.

"Light down, light down now, true Thomas,
And lean your head upon my knee.
Abide ye there a little space
And I will show you ferlies three.

"Oh see ye not yon narrow road,
So thick beset wi' thorns and briers?
That is the Path of Righteousness,
Though after it but few inquires.

"And see ye not yon braid, braid road,
That lies across the lily leven?
That is the Path of Wickedness,
Though some call it the Road to Heaven.

"And see ye not yon bonny road
That winds about the fernie brae?
That is the Road to fair Elfland
Where thou and I this night maun gae.

"But, Thomas, ye sall haud your tongue,
Whatever ye may hear or see,
For speak ye word in Elfin-land,
Ye'll ne'er win back to your ain countrie."

Oh they rade on, and farther on,
And they waded rivers abune the knee,
And they saw neither sun nor moon,
But they heard the roaring of the sea.

It was mirk, mirk night, there was nae starlight,
They waded through red blude to the knee.
For a' the blude that's shed on the earth
Rins through the springs o' that countrie.

Syne they came to a garden green
And she pu'd an apple frae a tree.
"Take this for thy wages, true Thomas.
It will give thee the tongue that can never lee."

"My tongue is my ain" true Thomas he said,
"A gudely gift ye wad gie to me.
I neither dought to buy or sell
At fair or tryst where I might be.

"I dought neither speak to prince or peer,
Nor ask of grace from fair ladye".
"Now haud thy peace, Thomas" she said,
"For as I say, so must it be".

He has gotten a coat of the even cloth,
And a pair o' shoon of the velvet green.
And till seven years were gane and past
True Thomas on earth was never seen.


THE IMMORTAL HOUR
“How beautiful they are, the lordly ones
Who dwell in the hills
In the hollow hills.
They have faces like flowers
And their breath is wind that stirs amid the grasses
Filled with white clover.
Their limbs are more white than shafts of moonshine.
They are more fleet than the March wind.
They laugh and are glad and are terrible.
When their lances shake, every green reed quivers.
How beautiful they are
How beautiful the lordly ones
In the hollow hills.”
— Fiona Macleod nee William Sharp

[CursedRhubarb]

Some other things that have been part of folklore and would add some life to any elf or fey creature:

Fey can not lie. They can and will twist the truth into a pretzel but they will never lie.

Mentioned before was the power of a promise. A Fey's word is it's law. A promise to a child is just as binding as a promise to their Lord or lady. Breaking said promise is normally depicted as either impossible or has dire consequences such as the Wild Hunt being sent after them for breaking their word.

Never thank a Fey. Doing so has been the downfall of many as the Day are likely to take a "thank you" as a confession of debt and tends to wind up with the gesture leading to being an indentured servant.

They eat what? In a fair amount, if not a majority, of folklore the Fey are fond of eating children and small animals like puppies or kittens.

Beware Faerie Gifts. Folklore is full of stories of people that received a gift from a Fey that was a great boon, but eventually it turns and any gain from the gift, and often more, is lost. (For example, a farmer was gifted a walking stick that made all his sheep give birth to twins so long as he had it. Then one day it grew tired and wanted to leave so it caused him to trip, dropping it in the river where it washed away. Shortly after his farm was hit by a flood and all his sheep drowned.)

[DragonSorcererX]

I want the "Elves" to be:
1) Vulnerable to Iron.
2) Shy away from Holy Symbols.
3) Powers of Illusion.
4) Ability to "Charm".
5) Prefer twilight, and shaded woods to bright sunlight.

Not trying to be offensive or a jerk, but, you already answered your own question... and it looks really cool.


Maybe elements of the Gnome, Hag, Rakshasa, and/or Vampire?

What do you suggest?

Drinking blood from mortals always seems evil... don't know why though... And since you mentioned hags, making them soul stealers would also be cool.

[JellyPooga]

You may also want to borrow some other lore. e.g;

- The ability to reveal the truth of Fey illusions by use of an "Elf Stone" (aka: a self-bored stone). Whether or not this would be a magic item per se, is up to you.

- The tradition of Faerie Rings could be implemented by use of the Teleportation Circle spell. If you wanted to take it one step further, faerie rings could also be a reliable site to Plane Shift to and from.

- Fey are notorious shapeshifters. Giving Elves an incentive to be Druids might be an idea to reinforce this; a bonus to Wisdom, a bonus Druid Cantrip or something similar could work. Alternatively, borrowing ideas from the Shifter race might also be appropriate.

- Many of the superstitions surrounding Vampires originated in "faerie tales"; being turned by holy symbols is one example, but the affinity for animals (corrupted to "creatures of the night" for vamps), turning to mist, shapeshifting (as already mentioned), supernatural charm/beauty, the inability to cross running water or enter a home uninvited are all traits that are also traditionally associated with the Fey.

- There are also many traditions where Fey are portrayed as superlative craftsmen; either by working exceptionally fast, performing "impossible" tasks e.g. (spinning straw to gold) or simply having the ability to turn out exceedingly high quality work. This idea has since been adopted into the lore for Dwarves in Tolkein and D&D, but there's no reason you can't revisit the idea.

Just some ideas :smallwink:

[Herobizkit]

Take Gnome, slap it on Elf.

Done. :)

Surface gnomes are seelie, svirfneblin are unseelie, maybe.

[Breaklance]

Thanks!
I got some rest good ideas from this thread.
I think combining the features.of the Drow, Eladrin, Fey, High Elves, and Wood Elves can work, and make a more interesting entity for PC's to encounter.

snip


Another good source for more fey based elves that I highly recommend is the fae from the kingkiller chronicles (first book: the name of the wind) there's 2 long books (700+ pages each) and a book of assorted short stories called Rogues featuring various authors with a story in there on the character Bast.

Bast is awesome and very much chaotic good(?) Very human like but very much not. As described in the book: humans and fae may look alike but are fundamentally different like water and alchohol. In a clear glass they both look the same but they don't mix and they are vastly different.

Good stuff about him and in those stories for getting personalities and background on fae with a lot of the stuff your looking for like aversion to pure iron(makes them feel like they were kicked in the balls but that feeling throughout their entire body), illusions (bast is actually a satyr type fae but glamours himself so that his hooves look like really nice boots), they're ageless but can still die, etc

Awesome npc that would be difficult though to actually implement would be a creature named the ctheah. It is an oracle that knows the future. ALL futures. And he's a ****. Will tell you things to set you on the most disastrous path possible. Anyone who comes into contact with it is considered (in fae lands) to be a plague ship. It lives in a tree that has a panacea (magic cure all). Example story of how bad this guy is is that someone comes to him asking for the flower to cure a sick princess he's in love with. This guy gets the flower and cures his love but she is forced to marry a prince from another land. She kills herself and her father blames the foreign prince launching both kingdoms into war. Same story but the guy only talks to the ctheah about his love, the princess marries the foreign Prince and the guy kills the prince out of vengeance. Foreign king blames the king and war happens. No matter what the ctheah nudges you along a path in which the end result is thousands of deaths in the resulting war. Talking to him is rough because it's like he's a mind reader. But he can't he just knows all the possible things you could say. And again is a **** so he'll call you out on your darkest secrets or the questions your too afraid to ask but he never lies either.

So would be a cool character to introduce your PCs to a narrative powder keg that launches a major event then you have some other npc conveniently tell them about the ctheah after bad stuff has happened.

[Coidzor]

LeShay (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/leshay.htm) do anything for you?

Updating 3.0 content should be doable.

[2D8HP]

*it looks really cool. Thanks! I'm glad that someone "gets" it!


always seems evil... don't know why though... And since you mentioned hags, making them soul stealers would also be cool.[/FONT]Sometimes the Elves are slightly less than malevolent, as when the "Fairy" who is "Queen of Elfland" gives a mixed "gift" of always speaking true (so no lies but also prophecy), but despite the occasional beneficial act, in most of the old tales elves/fairies/shee are best placated and avoided (begging your pardon your Lord and Ladyship's!).
The Elves are neither Angels or Demons in most of the old tales, but are instead something other. The 16th century "Ballad of Tam Lin", gives a clue about their nature by revealing that they must pay a blood tithe to hell every seven years to maintain their independence.

BTW, yes I do use Elves and Fey interchangeably, it fits how those words have been used. For example in the 14th century, "Sir Thopas" by Chaucer, has an "Elf-Queen of Fairyland", and the 17th century "Ballad of Thomas the Rhymer" has a "fairy" who is "Queen of Elfland" (maybe the Elves rule Fairyland, and the Fairies rule Elfland?).
Which brings up another thought. While they're certain "elf-maids" in the old tales, most of the stories involve male Elves, but with exceptions such as 1924's "King of Elfland's Daughter", there seems to be far more Elf "Queens" than "Kings", which makes me wonder how Elf society is ordered. (Court of Queen Elizabeth? Ant colony?)


You may also want to borrow some other lore. e.g;

- The ability to reveal the truth of Fey illusions...An ointment that provides "witch-sight" or "elf-sight", that does indeed allow a human to see through "glamour", sometimes in the old tales (such as is mentioned in "The Midwife" from British Folktales by Katharine Briggs), when the Elves learn that a human can see through their illusions "did you wash your eyes with our water?", they take the humans eyes!

Take Gnome, slap it on Elf.

Done. :)

Surface gnomes are seelie, svirfneblin are unseelie, maybe.
I like that cut of your jib.

I tried to find the source of a quote I think I remember that went something like, "The Seelie toy with your souls, the Unseelie toy with your intestines", but instead I found.this treasure of a thread:
seelie and unseelie fey? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?146373-seelie-and-unseelie-fey)

One post suggested that the Unseelie, are just the Seelie when their in their winter clothes, which intrigued me, and it also had this gem of a post:


My favorite interpretation of Seelie and Unseelie fey is this:

Imagine yourself at a dinner party. You are in the living room of a hunting lodge, and you are the only human there, with everyone else around you looking much like elves, but somehow more beautiful. The room is decorated with animals heads and beautiful old hunting spears and recurve bows. You are the centre of attention and everyone is having a good time, drinking and laughing, and telling you jokes and stories. Occasionally someone plays a prank on you, such as your drink being swapped without you noticing, but it is allseems*good natured. At some point, the games and jokes get a little tiresome so for some respite you offer to go to the kitchen to get some drinks, and are followed by a few of your new friends.

Once you get there, you find a second party, however instead of games the party goers are torturing a pig and laughing at its squeeling. Your friends from the other room begin to join in. Fascinated and mortified, you look on, not wanting to look but not daring to turn your back. Once the pig ceases twitching, they turn to you and stare. Someone suggests that you would be a far better toy. You bolt out the back door and run through the woods behind the house.*

As you run on in silence, you turn around to see if you are being persued. You see every party guest, including your friends from the living room, has taken up slender ash bows and bright oaken spears with copper heads that glint and shimmer in the moonlight and are running silently towards you. The wild hunt has begun.

Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-03-23 at*11:38 AM.I also saw that someone else recommend the same recent fiction that inspired me:


Lords and Ladies should definitely be on the reading list, and I'd also suggest Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell from Susanna Clarke. The Ladies of Grace Adieu (by the same) and Stardust by Neil Gaiman have good faerie tales too.

Last edited by Greenish; 2010-03-23 at*12:46 PM.



LeShay (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/leshay.htm) do anything for you?

Updating 3.0 content should be doable.Yes!
While "fluff" is much more fun to read, it's my ability to properly do "crunch" that I worry I lack. I think I can "Worldbuild" alright (really just stealing from enough sources that it counts as "research"), but I fear my inability to use enough RAW to make my ideas acceptable to players.
I initially thought I'd just keep my version of "Elves" as a "monster" somewhat similar to Vampires etc., but with Drow in the PHB, and the new races in Volo's, I feel I have to make them PC ready, so combining elements of Drow and Forest Gnomes, would seem to fit the bill but.... that just doesn't seem folkloric enough, and really, except maybe for Dwarves, none of the PHB PC races feel that distinct to me.

[Beleriphon]

- There are also many traditions where Fey are portrayed as superlative craftsmen; either by working exceptionally fast, performing "impossible" tasks e.g. (spinning straw to gold) or simply having the ability to turn out exceedingly high quality work. This idea has since been adopted into the lore for Dwarves in Tolkein and D&D, but there's no reason you can't revisit the idea.

Just some ideas :smallwink:

Given that dvergar (dwarves, not dark elves, or light elves, those are the alfar) in Norse myth are the ones that forged Mjolnir, Sif's hair, and Gungnir. So Tolkien really borrowed elves from Norse myth, and less from Germanic folklore. Its even possible that Snorri Sturluson actually invented the Vanir as a way to separate the Alfar from the gods.

[DragonSorcererX]

Thanks! I'm glad that someone "gets" it!

It really is cool, not that I would use it... maybe... I may or may not steal these and use them instead of the drow, to make then even more edgelords!
In my world, High Elves will be a sort of Arcanapunk race (sort of a Tippyverse people race, but not that "rulebound" like Tippy was) with magical elevators, doors, alchemy jugs in every house and stuff like that and their cities will be clear and clean like the modern Sci-fi movies, and the Wood Elves will be the same but with Druidic magic and Flintstones/WoW Night Elves stuff instead of magical tech and their cities will be basically Lothlorien (but who cares about hippies?), and the Drow equivalent will probably be Thor 2 Dark Elves.

[JellyPooga]

Given that dvergar (dwarves, not dark elves, or light elves, those are the alfar) in Norse myth are the ones that forged Mjolnir, Sif's hair, and Gungnir. So Tolkien really borrowed elves from Norse myth, and less from Germanic folklore. Its even possible that Snorri Sturluson actually invented the Vanir as a way to separate the Alfar from the gods.

Dwarves and Elves, as well as goblins, boggarts, kobolds and all the rest, in folklore of all kinds had more in common than they do in more modern interpretations and by and large are fairly interchangeable terms when talking about mythology. It's also worth considering issues regarding translations; the term "dvergar" may be a direct influence on the modern Tolkein "Dwarf" and later the Duergar of D&D, but in Norse myth they share more in common with beings we'd refer to as Fey than any mortal.

Point taken though! :smallwink:

[nilshai]

3E Ravenloft "Van Richten's Guide to the Shadow Fey" and "Denizens of Dread" has the Arak (Shadow Fey) creatures. They have the Fey type and are evil f***s, basically what fairies/elves/fey/insertwhatevername are supposed to be.
They are masters of illusion or necromancy, don't like light (they die slowly...), have optional dislike to holy symbols and other stuff and are vulnerable to certain materials.

[2D8HP]

3E Ravenloft "Van Richten's Guide to the Shadow Fey" and "Denizens of Dread" has the Arak (Shadow Fey) creatures. They have the Fey type and are evil f***s, basically what fairies/elves/fey/insertwhatevername are supposed to be.
They are masters of illusion or necromancy, don't like light (they die slowly...), have optional dislike to holy symbols and other stuff and are vulnerable to certain materials.
I'm not a fan of 3e (just 0e, 1e, and 5e, I skipped the rest), but that sounds AWESOME!

[Bohandas]

To be fair Tolkien's works did have a few evil elves. IIRC Lord Elrond's ancestors were murderous pirates who initially came to middle earth from aman in a fleet of ships whose legitimate owners they had slaughtered.

(Though admittedly they were hardly anything like traditional unseelie elves from classic folklore. Especially not their leader Feanor who was more like a bizarre cross between captain ahab, john galt, and the nietzschean archetype of the person who fights evil but becomes evil themself; plus his trade prior to becoming a bitter vengence driven warlord was making synthetic gemstones.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Do a little look up on the Grugach wild elves from 1e/ World of Greyhawk. Valley of the Mage.

Check out Runequest. (Original) Their elves were vulnerable to cold iron.

Check out Chivalry and Sorcery, I seem to recall the elves there were closer to "fearie" than the D&D Tolkien sorts. (But I may also be confusing memories)

[Naanomi]

Or undead elves borne from massive thread necromancy?

[Tetrasodium]

There is some relevant & good advice in the subraces section here (http://keith-baker.com/tag/races/) & use similar for great effect with other races in my 5e eberron game, want to play a tabaxi?... your a gnoll or the product of an illegal house Vadalis magebred human experiment. Want to play a goliath?... you are a hobgoblin. Want to play a Firbolg?... you are an orc. Want to play a triton?... you are a suahagain or however it is spelled/pronounced. want to worship lloth or come from waterdeep?... gtfo, door is that way

[FreddyNoNose]

Some other things that have been part of folklore and would add some life to any elf or fey creature:

Fey can not lie. They can and will twist the truth into a pretzel but they will never lie.

Mentioned before was the power of a promise. A Fey's word is it's law. A promise to a child is just as binding as a promise to their Lord or lady. Breaking said promise is normally depicted as either impossible or has dire consequences such as the Wild Hunt being sent after them for breaking their word.

Never thank a Fey. Doing so has been the downfall of many as the Day are likely to take a "thank you" as a confession of debt and tends to wind up with the gesture leading to being an indentured servant.

They eat what? In a fair amount, if not a majority, of folklore the Fey are fond of eating children and small animals like puppies or kittens.

Beware Faerie Gifts. Folklore is full of stories of people that received a gift from a Fey that was a great boon, but eventually it turns and any gain from the gift, and often more, is lost. (For example, a farmer was gifted a walking stick that made all his sheep give birth to twins so long as he had it. Then one day it grew tired and wanted to leave so it caused him to trip, dropping it in the river where it washed away. Shortly after his farm was hit by a flood and all his sheep drowned.)

“Ask not the elves for advice, because they will tell you both 'yes' and 'no'.”