A kick down the door kinda party...

[Brutilious]

Hello friends,

First post on here and let me say, feelsgoodman. I also had a topic I was hoping I could discuss with the lot of you: I recently started a Dnd 3.5 Campaign and it's been going solid but the group dynamic seems to be just kill everything-smash down the door-no talking no Rping kind of party. I myself, love story... In fact that's why I play this game. The story. Be me, DM. I take all the time and effort to make a living breathing world (sort of), and the characters don't seem to really care. While I love the combat as well you can only take so much before your mind turns to mush churning out endless dungeons. I want the characters to interact with the world, and each other. So basically I was wondering if I could get any tips from other DMs on how they cracked the RPing shells with other stubborn players. Of the three in my group one loves to role play, like myself. But, the other two seem to be more of a challenge. Just wanted some advice on how to keep a game fresh and start to warm the players up to my kind of DMing.

-Brute

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you tried presenting them with a problem they can't simply smash? Something political? A puzzle? Anything that's not a sack full of HP in the bottom of a dungeon?

How about just discussing your issue with them? That tends to be the most effective method in the long-term.

[Brutilious]

Have you tried presenting them with a problem they can't simply smash? Something political? A puzzle? Anything that's not a sack full of HP in the bottom of a dungeon?

How about just discussing your issue with them? That tends to be the most effective method in the long-term.

Yes, I have spoken with them about it, and they want to get better, but I feel like when I do present them with a situation like you're referring to, the game just stagnates.

The players get quiet, no one wanting to do the leg work of talking with an NPC or examining a room in detail. Etc...

[Darth Ultron]

. Just wanted some advice on how to keep a game fresh and start to warm the players up to my kind of DMing.


A good trick is to do both things of combat/role play at the same time. Like for example, the group goes to the sage who has a group of demons and will answer one question for each one killed. And it could just be a weird sage...or maybe he is really captive of the demons...or something else. This also works for ''good'' if it's ''one question per hit'' or something like that.

Plenty of strong thug types might want a grapple or wrestling match before they deal with the group. The same can go for hitting a target or any other skill.

Another good trick is to make the role play directly rewards, though this is ''unfair'' to a player that refuses to role play. But it is meant to be, so as long as you can stomach being ''unfair'' you can use this way. It's simple enough as characters that take time to interact with the world simply can get more out of the game.

For example, the character that talks to the sheriff for a whole minute can learn his wife's diamond ring with two dolphins on it was stolen a couple weeks ago. So much later when the group kills some goblins with that ring, the character can return it to the sheriff for a reward or favor or such. While the poor ''kill, loot, repeat'' character gets nothing and just whines about how ''unfair'' the game is.

Greed is a good trick. Amazingly many roll players will often, suddenly role play if you bribe them. For example, many roll players will do anything, even role play, to get a sword of sharpness. So, for example: the Cave of Knowledge has to eternal sages in it: one knows where the sword of sharpness is and one does not and the group only gets one question.....so they need to figure out the sage to ask before they get to the cave.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Yes, I have spoken with them about it, and they want to get better, but I feel like when I do present them with a situation like you're referring to, the game just stagnates.

The players get quiet, no one wanting to do the leg work of talking with an NPC or examining a room in detail. Etc...

Perhaps a nudge in the right direction at those times? The NPC addresses one of them first to get the conversational ball rolling or you remind them that skills like search and spot have uses when they would be useful or just declare something that would be obvious and wouldn't require a check.

Also remind them in the moment that these are the kinds of things you all agreed to work on.

Above all, be patient. Roleplaying is a skill that takes time to develop and it always feels a little silly at first. If you work with the players they'll work with you, at least if they were earnest in wanting to do better.

[Brutilious]

Thank you Kelb and Darth for the ideas, I'll have to try some of what you mentioned in my sessions. I have no doubt I can turn these players into RPers yet, and these things you suggested will help out.

-Brute

[Flickerdart]

I take all the time and effort to make a living breathing world (sort of), and the characters don't seem to really care.

Did you make the world for the characters, or for yourself?

Let's take a hypothetical party of murderhobos. Gronk the Orc Barbarian is a barbarian who is an orc. Daggersby the Halfling Rogue is a rogue who is a halfling. Dronk the Orc Barbarian is Gronk's cousin, also an orc barbarian.

Any world you introduce these characters to becomes a setpiece for their violence because violence is their character. They value it because it fulfils their goals of getting more magic swords. In order to make the whole RP thing work, you need to do one of two things:

Show the characters a clear line from where they are to more magic swords that goes through non-violent interactions with an NPC. They'll be happy enough to schmooze the Archduke when they have been promised some items of value from his treasury and can try and negotiate for exactly how much.
Help the characters attain goals that are not murder-based. Maybe Gronk and Dronk's grandfather summons them to his side to handle an inheritance dispute. Maybe Daggersby adopts a wounded wyrmling dragon, and wants to nurse it to health. Give them a reason to want to talk to those NPCs that goes beyond whatever quest they happen to be on. "Talk to the NPC because your quest demands it" is a boring story for everybody.

[Eldariel]

Burnt fingers are the surest teacher. Craft any scenario where "bust the door in" is a terrible idea and things will backfire in a predictable fashion. With causality this clear, even a dog should be able to figure out what went wrong.

[Boogastreehouse]

*


Also, I would suggest that you study your players, and try to figure out what sort of role-playing they're each comfortable/confident engaging in.

I had a player who really only felt brave enough to roleplay when the whole group was interacting with an NPC. When she was in a situation where she was by herself with an NPC, and the other players were just watching her, she became less confident, and sought to end the encounter as quickly as possible.

Another player really loved the opportunity to stand up to bad guys, to get right in their face and make them back down, especially bully-types. Another guy really loved interacting with "weirdo NPCs" and puzzling together the motivations of lunatics, Fae, possessed people, almost-intelligent animals etc, and figuring out what secrets they might have.

I feel that if you can figure out what sort of roleplaying the players each individually like, you can have a few extra encounters that play to their strengths. As they get more familiar with their characters, maybe you can—little by little—coax them out of their comfort zone.


*

[Gruftzwerg]

a) Give em a social enemy. Someone who is unapproachable due to his social status. A well known vendor, nobel or local lieutenant, somebody who can not be killed so easily without consequences. The players will get suspicious that he is the evil guy, but won't have the authority & infos to do something at the beginning. Than you can try to RP a bit with them. They need to social interact to get renown and gather more information about the bad guy and make friends & allies.

b) A quest which relies on gathering information in the first place:
- Where is "that item/this person"?
- solve a murder. find & arrest the killer.
- solve some kind of riddle which needs social interaction (e.g. solve a conspiracy)

[Brutilious]

a)
A quest which relies on gathering information in the first place:
- Where is "that item/this person"?
- solve a murder. find & arrest the killer.
- solve some kind of riddle which needs social interaction (e.g. solve a conspiracy)

This is probably what I'll have to resort to, small steps in the right direction.

[Eldan]

Did you make the world for the characters, or for yourself?

Let's take a hypothetical party of murderhobos. Gronk the Orc Barbarian is a barbarian who is an orc. Daggersby the Halfling Rogue is a rogue who is a halfling. Dronk the Orc Barbarian is Gronk's cousin, also an orc barbarian.

Any world you introduce these characters to becomes a setpiece for their violence because violence is their character. They value it because it fulfils their goals of getting more magic swords. In order to make the whole RP thing work, you need to do one of two things:

Show the characters a clear line from where they are to more magic swords that goes through non-violent interactions with an NPC. They'll be happy enough to schmooze the Archduke when they have been promised some items of value from his treasury and can try and negotiate for exactly how much.
Help the characters attain goals that are not murder-based. Maybe Gronk and Dronk's grandfather summons them to his side to handle an inheritance dispute. Maybe Daggersby adopts a wounded wyrmling dragon, and wants to nurse it to health. Give them a reason to want to talk to those NPCs that goes beyond whatever quest they happen to be on. "Talk to the NPC because your quest demands it" is a boring story for everybody.


For such characters, you can also combine approaches that are not directly combat with violence. I've done it before, it works.

They burst down the last door on the lowest level of the dungeon, but instead of a level-appropriate boss, they find a camping army of underdark monsters ready to attack the surface. Something they know they can't beat openly.