Damage Reduction /Magic. Is it even worth it?

[Someguy231]

I ask because in some cases when one can gain DR later on in there travels, and it comes in the form of DR /Magic, such as from the Blessing of Bahamut spell for Paladins to the Invulnerability armor enchantment, one has to ask themselves: Is it even worth it? Because at this point, the party has magic weapons, so the enemy is bound to have magic weapons and magic attacks to counter the party with.

I want to hear from y'all, so fire away GITP Forum!

[Beheld]

A fair few monsters that attacking natural attacks don't, but yes, for the most part, it's value is extremely minuscule.

[Efrate]

Unless you get it early, like, really early (pre level 5) it isn't. Everything that has DR/magic overcomes DR/magic. Which is most things post CR 5 IIRC. Maybe if you are in a hordes of humans with at best MW weapons, like in a massive battle between nation x and nation y with nearly all mundanes its lets you shrug off a decent bit of damage, but realistically in a more standard DnD setting, its more or less useless by the time anyone gets it.

Maybe if you face a LOT of constructs with DR x/adamantine (but not adamantine + magic) you can get a bit of staying power, but otherwise, not really worth it. If you are in 3.0 and get dr 10/+5, thats very relevant, but with the 3.5 change into magic/metal/damage type/alignment it doesn't do much. Maybe if you face a lot of extraplanar monsters with like dr 10/lawful, it has a bit more use, but in general its worthless unless fighting hordes of humanoid mooks by the time you generally get it.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

well a non magic scimitar deals slashing
a +1 scimitar deals slashing
a +1 cold iron scimitar does cold iron, slashing for dmg reduction
i think the question is is magic a type of dmg or a type of substance

[Zanos]

Most pre-printed monsters do not have magical weapons, or natural attacks that overcome DR/magic.

If your DM uses a lot of humanoid creatures with customized weapons, it's not very likely to be valuable, as magical weapons are typically a priority.
If your DM uses a lot of more monstrous creatures(which the books tends to focus on, actually), DR/magic is pretty useful.


well a non magic scimitar deals slashing
a +1 scimitar deals slashing
a +1 cold iron scimitar does cold iron, slashing for dmg reduction
i think the question is is magic a type of dmg or a type of substance
Any weapon that's at least +1 overcomes DR/Magic.

[digiman619]

Unless you had a bunch of separate "magic" systems that all have separate DR's (psionics, technology, etc), yeah.

[Shalist]

Don't forget environmental hazards; i.e. 20/magic means you can jump off a 7-story building (~70 feet, 6d6 => average 21 dmg) with just a couple HP of nonlethal to walk off. Twice that if you have anti-impact armor (Cwar, 2000g; halves falling / crushing damage).

Also, Dampen Magic (cleric 4, Complete Champ) essentially changes /magic into /+2, /+3, or /+4 DR for rnd/lvl.


This spell surrounds the subject with a mystical field that dampens the effects of magic. While it is in effect, the enhancement bonus of any magic weapon used against the subject is lowered by 1 (edit: 2 at CL 13, 3 at CL 19 /edit). For instance, a +4 longsword would have only a +3 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls when wielded against the subject. However, even if a weapon's enhancement bonus is reduced below +1, its masterwork bonus still applies.

A +4 or +5 GMW still bypasses it, and I dunno about natural attacks, but if you've got 20/ or 30/magic DR collecting dust...*shrug*.

NPC dragons likely get the most millage from this, as those with large /magic DR can likely self-cast (for reds/blues/metallics, at least). Perhaps you could make a custom magic item based off it, though?

Also, bonus points if you use shenanigans to maintain your /magic DR while in an AMF.

[Extra Anchovies]

DR/magic also provides immunity to stubbed toes and paper cuts.

[Manyasone]

DR/magic also provides immunity to stubbed toes and paper cuts.
Nothing... NOTHING... In the history of all creation provides immunity to those specific things... Even deities get them...

[Zaydos]

Most pre-printed monsters do not have magical weapons, or natural attacks that overcome DR/magic.

If your DM uses a lot of humanoid creatures with customized weapons, it's not very likely to be valuable, as magical weapons are typically a priority.
If your DM uses a lot of more monstrous creatures(which the books tends to focus on, actually), DR/magic is pretty useful.

Pretty much this.

In more detail by which I mean choosing 5 CRs and actually looking through the Monster Manual...

CR 5: 47 do not (wraiths still do con damage but it skims off the damage reducing the speed they kill you), 1 does, 1 circumvents (basilisk does better using its standard action to force an extra save or lose each round)

CR 7: 44 do not (specters still do their bigger threat but it does skim off the damage reducing the speed they kill you), 2 do, 3 circumvent (a drider/nymph ought to just kill you with spells, but technically doesn't overcome it with their attacks, a medusa is a less deadly basilisk)

Dragons start occasionally overcoming it here; it causes a large spike in those that do (getting through the Ds only one non-dragon overcomes DR /magic). Actually getting into the Hs now and only dragons overcome it on the CRs I selected at the opening of the book (there's been some CR 9s and 11s that did that I saw). Ogre barbarian is the 2nd one I've hit that wasn't a dragon.

CR 10: 13 do not (rakshasa can't kill you with their spells alone effectively), 3 do (noble salamander makes a 3rd non-dragon!), 1 circumvents (gray slaad's lightning sla does more damage than its full attack array)

CR 12: 9 do not, 2 do, 1 circumvents (abyssal greater basilisk technically overcomes but does better using its standard action to force another save each round)

CR 15: 2 do not, 5 do

I may have miscounted somewhere but except for CR 15 DR magic applies almost as often as DR /-, and CR 15 4 out of 7 creatures are dragons.

[Gemini476]

Eh, there's enough stuff even at high levels that doesn't have magic weapons, DR/magic, or DR/epic, or magical attacks. A Marilith needs to spend a round buffing with Magic Weapon for its six longswords to get through DR/magic, for instance.

I guess I can try to make an Excel spreadsheet and figure out how common it actually is at high CR, though.

Also, of course, it's worth remembering that one of the assumed encounter styles that they eventually moved away from slightly was the "large amount of low-level mooks" encounter - 32 CR-8 enemies are a CR+2 encounter, for instance, still give experience, and fit in perfectly with some of those Organization entries in the Monster Manual. In such a scenario, damage reduction/magic is actually relevant, as is the otherwise suboptimal stuff like Fireball or Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack.
However, it's also a huge pain to keep track of 40+ 3E characters in a battle so they eventually eased up on such and just went with the closer-to-APL encounters. Summon Monster and the like is bad enough, and that's usually not that many monsters!

[Zaydos]

CR 16+ is actually easy.

CR 16: All but 1 overcomes DR /magic (greater stone golem does not)
CR 17: 4 do not but 2 of those are sorcerers at -~8 levels (counts mariliths as do not), 6 do.
CR 18: All overcome.
CR 19: There are only dragons in the MM.
CR 20: 1 does not (pit fiend).
CR 21+: All overcome.

More Monster Manuals brought in the better it gets though would be my guess (it can't get worse at CR 16+).

That said 4+ enemies aren't too uncommon (as a DM I generally don't go higher than 12 enemies and typically stick with 6-8), EL - 2 encounters of them too.

[Psyren]

DR/magic also provides immunity to stubbed toes and paper cuts.

Actually, serious question based on this - doesn't DR apply to falling damage? After all, it doesn't come from a magic attack.

[Rijan_Sai]

Actually, serious question based on this - doesn't DR apply to falling damage? After all, it doesn't come from a magic attack.

I seem to recall many moons of discussion on this very subject way back on the old WotC boards... I don't think it was ever really resolved...

That said, in games I DM it most certainly does apply (overcome by /bludgeoning in most cases, /slashing or /piercing in a few select scenarios: sharp rocks, pointy sticks in a pit trap, etc.)
DR has meaning in my games!

[Fouredged Sword]

Any game I play that starts pre level 4 I am very tempted to take Shape Soulmeld (Asteral Vembrances) for DR 4/magic at first level. After 6th level it basically is pretty useless, but you can take the bind feat to turn it into fly (20) or swim (30), though admittedly this means waiting for 12th level and I normally have retrained or reformed that feat by then.

1d3+1 and lower is a large number of damage rolls for level 1-3 adventurers.

[torrasque666]

Is there any reason to not go back to the old "DR/+X" system? Other than it means a lower number of special abilities a weapon can have?

[Beheld]

Is there any reason to not go back to the old "DR/+X" system? Other than it means a lower number of special abilities a weapon can have?

Is there any reason to go back to that system? I mean, it's an objectively worse system, so there's no reason to use it.

[Hamste]

Is there any reason to go back to that system? I mean, it's an objectively worse system, so there's no reason to use it.

Why is it objectively worse?

[Psyren]

There's a Rules Compendium sidebar that discusses their thought process:


EVOLUTION OF DR

In prior editions of D&D, some monsters could only be hit by weapons with a certain magic bonus or better—anything less simply had no effect. It was a lot like a sign at an amusement park: “You must be at least this tall to fight this monster.” Damage reduction was a big improvement. It said you could hurt a monster with an inferior weapon, but you’d just do less damage. In practice, though, damage reduction values were so high that it was very difficult to damage a monster without the right weapon.

In the 3.5 revision, we made damage reduction more flavorful and easier to overcome. With a variety of methods to overcome DR, special materials and weapon types became more important. And we lowered damage reduction numbers so you have a hope of dealing damage even without the right weapon.

—James Wyatt, designer

[Elder_Basilisk]

Very useful at low and mid levels fading a bit at higher levels. Other people have noted the monsters that do not beat DR /magic, however I will focus on two aspects.

First, if you want to do the one man against an army thing, it is almost essential. 100 level 1 archers with rapid shot and a pet bard will kill a lot of characters in one round (even if they hit only on 20s, that's 10 hits and a 50% chance of a confirmed crit. 10d8+20=65 damage on average). However, if the character has DR 5/magic, then they probably only take 11 points of damage. If they have DR 10/magic, they probably take no damage (unless they are critted). Damage Reduction is the name of the game when it comes to surviving mass minions.

Secondly, the creatures that cannot overcome DR are some of the ones that are likely to crop up in greater numbers. As discussed by other posters, dragons can overcome DR/magic by the time they hit the mid-CR range, but dragons are typically solo creatures. Dire bears, displacer beasts, owlbears, and giants can't. Zombies and skeletons (typical minions at mid levels and as mid-levels get higher, the zombies and skeletons stay there, they just get upgraded to zombies and giants of nastier, higher HD monsters) can't beat DR /magic.

DR/magic is not as reliable as DR/adamantine, but it's pretty good in quite a few situations.

[Morcleon]

DR/magic is especially useful in large scale armies if you can give it to your soldiers cheaply (via Shape Soulmeld (astral vambraces) and Azurins), since most armies don't have large numbers of magic weapons.


Why is it objectively worse?

Because special abilities on weapons are objectively better than an extra enhancement bonus when Greater Magic Weapon is available. Even when it's not, special abilities are still usually better.

[Gemini476]

Is there any reason to not go back to the old "DR/+X" system? Other than it means a lower number of special abilities a weapon can have?

The "old DR/+X" system had stuff like DR 20/+2 or whatever. It was a nicer version of AD&D's "can only be hit by weapons +2 or greater" philosophy, in that it let you maybe do a bit of damage if you overcame the massive damage reduction (and energy resistance!) that was all over the place in 3.0. Oh, and there was also DR/silver and the like, but that's relatively inconsequential and small. Pretty much unchanged to 3.5, I think.

3.5's switch to DR/magic and DR/good and overall lowering of damage reduction is just furthering that - except it also makes it so that a +1 Keen Sword and +2 Sword both overcome the same reduction, and adds in more flavorful options that simultaneously encourage the golf bag problem (it's harder to get all the alignment types on one weapon) but also don't because the DR is usually piddly. If you go fight the demons, it doesn't matter how many plusses you have if the sword isn't Good - but it also doesn't matter as much in general since DR 15/cold iron and good is a lot smaller than DR 30/+3. (That's the Balor in both cases. The energy resistances also got lowered from 20 to 10.)

Overall I'd say that it's probably better at making players in general feel like they're useful since it doesn't no-sell you if you don't have good enough weapons, but it also reduces the threat value of those monsters a ton because they no longer no-sell you for not having good enough weapons.

Then again, perhaps the same could be said for the switch from AD&D to 3.0.

I understand why they did it, and I kind of have to agree given how much the way D&D is played has changed since the olden days.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget environmental hazards; i.e. 20/magic means you can jump off a 7-story building (~70 feet, 6d6 => average 21 dmg) with just a couple HP of nonlethal to walk off. Twice that if you have anti-impact armor (Cwar, 2000g; halves falling / crushing damage).


DR/magic also provides immunity to stubbed toes and paper cuts.The SRD says:


Damage Reduction
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks.That means that environmental hazards, falling, stubbed toes, and paper cuts are not reduced by DR.

Also, any creature with DR/magic overcomes DR/magic:


Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.That means it's useless against those creatures, too.

It's also useless against energy damage, environmental effects, damaging spells/psionics/spell-like/psi-likes/supernatural abilities, non-damaging attacks, status effects, magic weapons (of course), and anything else that isn't a completely non-magical, physical attack. And even some non-magical, physical "attacks" don't work against it, such as falling objects and Ex/Na attack abilities that aren't a melee or projectile attack (like stomping a crack in the ground and crushing you when you fall in).

So basically, DR/magic is very nearly useless against the vast majority of attacks you'll deal with during a game. Hardness, however, works against all forms of damage that don't explicitly overcome it, such as many psionic [sonic] powers.

[Psyren]

PF pretty much solved the "golf bag" problem:

+1 beats DR/magic
+3 beats DR/silver and DR/cold iron
+4 beats DR/adamantine
+5 beats DR/alignment
+6 beats DR/epic

This includes situational boosts e.g. Bane or Arcane Pool (but not GMW, other than the first one.)

So the only type of DR left (besides DR/- of course) that can get in your way is damage type - i.e. slashing/piercing/bludgeoning. You can beat this with the right weapon(s) or with a feat. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-versatility-combat)

[Gemini476]

So basically, DR/magic is very nearly useless against the vast majority of attacks you'll deal with during a game. Hardness, however, works against all forms of damage that don't explicitly overcome it, such as many psionic [sonic] powers.

All [sonic] powers, surely?

Energy Attacks Acid and sonic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#sonicAttacks) attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#hardness). Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

Also, you forgot to list DR/epic - although it's worth noting that DR/good and DR/greasy tentacles or whatever doesn't overcome it. And there's a lot of monsters out there who don't have DR/Magic, magic weapons, or spells. Most of the ones that appear in groups, generally, and there's a slew of them at the mid-CRs. The CR12 Kraken, for instance.
Or, well, any monster that has been advanced. The Colossal 60HD Kraken is supposed to be CR 25ish, I think, although I'd argue against that.

There's also a few monsters out there that don't have DR/Magic since having DR/Magic would actually make it easier to hit them than having their obscure material or alignment type, while also attacking with natural weapons because high-CR enemies tend to be big and big enemies tend to be nonhumanoid and nonhumanoid enemies have a tendency towards natural attacks. Or they have magic melee attacks, but their ranged attacks are mundane and thus Protection from Arrows works. Or they're humanoid but don't have magic weapons since having magic weapons would mean free loot for the players (i.e. the Balor/Drow school of thought).
It's weird how things work out, sometimes.

[MilleniaAntares]

PF pretty much solved the "golf bag" problem:

+1 beats DR/magic
+3 beats DR/silver and DR/cold iron
+4 beats DR/adamantine
+5 beats DR/alignment
+6 beats DR/epic

This includes situational boosts e.g. Bane or Arcane Pool (but not GMW, other than the first one.)
Could you provide a source for the Greater Magic Weapon bit? The entry on d20pfsrd in special abilities does not mention temporary spells.

[Psyren]

Could you provide a source for the Greater Magic Weapon bit? The entry on d20pfsrd in special abilities does not mention temporary spells.

It's in the GMW spell itself:


This bonus does not allow a weapon to bypass damage reduction aside from magic.

[Morcleon]

All [sonic] powers, surely?

Nope. Acid and sonic damage deal full damage to objects, but still have hardness applied. It's just that the damage isn't halved or quartered like the other damage types.

[Hamste]

Because special abilities on weapons are objectively better than an extra enhancement bonus when Greater Magic Weapon is available. Even when it's not, special abilities are still usually better.
That is kind of a non-sequitur. Whether or not extra enhancement bonus is objectively worse than other enhancements is unrelated to whether Dr/magic is objectively better than Dr/+enhancement bonus system. You need to add a logical reason why the two are related.

As a side note you looked only at the current value not what it would be like with Dr/enhancement so here is the comparison. In the case of Greater Magic weapon the two systems are essentially identical (assuming it works to bypass DR, I'm unfamiliar with 3.0. If it doesn't refer to what it is like with out greater magic weapon). With out greater magic weapon the Dr/enhancement system make the enhancement bonus more valuable (This is arguably worse as plus 1 is more boring than most other abilities but it is also simpler).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

All [sonic] powers, surely?There are creatures that have hardness, and that hardness applies to [sonic] powers that don't specify otherwise; you just don't halve the damage first. The [sonic] powers that don't overcome hardness are generally outside of the XPH (like energy barrage, energy claw, energy manipulation, and psionic glyph of warding, all of which are from CPsi).

[Morcleon]

That is kind of a non-sequitur. Whether or not extra enhancement bonus is objectively worse than other enhancements is unrelated to whether Dr/magic is objectively better than Dr/+enhancement bonus system. You need to add a logical reason why the two are related.

As a side note you looked only at the current value not what it would be like with Dr/enhancement so here is the comparison. In the case of Greater Magic weapon the two systems are essentially identical (assuming it works to bypass DR, I'm unfamiliar with 3.0. If it doesn't refer to what it is like with out greater magic weapon). With out greater magic weapon the Dr/enhancement system make the enhancement bonus more valuable (This is arguably worse as plus 1 is more boring than most other abilities but it is also simpler).

With DR/magic, you only ever need a +1 on your weapon to always bypass that sort of DR, even if your GMW is dispelled or nonexistent. With DR/+, any creatures with DR/+2 or higher will have their DR function normally if you keep your weapon at +1 with special abilities. As you said, a +1 to attack and damage is often worth less than certain special abilities (and a +2 weapon property makes you bypass most DR anyway).

[Desril]

PF pretty much solved the "golf bag" problem:

+1 beats DR/magic
+3 beats DR/silver and DR/cold iron
+4 beats DR/adamantine
+5 beats DR/alignment
+6 beats DR/epic

This includes situational boosts e.g. Bane or Arcane Pool (but not GMW, other than the first one.)

So the only type of DR left (besides DR/- of course) that can get in your way is damage type - i.e. slashing/piercing/bludgeoning. You can beat this with the right weapon(s) or with a feat. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-versatility-combat)

Actually just to point out the minor error here; A +6 effective bonus overcomes DR/Epic. A +1 Flaming Vorpal Longsword beats DR/Epic (but not DR/Good)

[Troacctid]

Nope. Acid and sonic damage deal full damage to objects, but still have hardness applied. It's just that the damage isn't halved or quartered like the other damage types.
It might ignore hardness or it might not. The rules kind of contradict themselves on this point. Not to mention that different objects interact differently with different damage types. Ask your DM.

[Yael]

Nothing... NOTHING... In the history of all creation provides immunity to those specific things... Even deities get them...

My next homebrew will be a Damage Reduction 15/4-sided die, because you may be an unstoppable killing machine, but stepping on a d4 it's just game over.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It might ignore hardness or it might not. The rules kind of contradict themselves on this point. Not to mention that different objects interact differently with different damage types. Ask your DM.The entry, as was quoted to me earlier, is:


Energy Attacks
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit.An acid or sonic attack against a psicrystal (with hardness 8) deals full damage, minus the hardness and whatever acid and sonic resistances it might have up at the moment. The exceptions call themselves out.

[Zanos]

So basically, DR/magic is very nearly useless against the vast majority of attacks you'll deal with during a game. Hardness, however, works against all forms of damage that don't explicitly overcome it, such as many psionic [sonic] powers.
Zaydos did me the kindness of showing explicitly that censusing the various monsters shows the opposite. Most monsters cannot innately overcome DR. Unless your DM leans heavily on hand-equipped NPCs are is buffing his monsters with pocket casters with GMW/GMF, it applies against a large number of melee creatures as long as you aren't in high double digits.

As for whether or not it's actually worth what you're paying...that depends on the source, the amount, your level, and what you're fighting. DR 5/Magic at level 5 and your DM likes lots of weaker enemies? Very useful. Your DM likes to charge you with one big giant two handing a club? Not so useful.


PF pretty much solved the "golf bag" problem:

+1 beats DR/magic
+3 beats DR/silver and DR/cold iron
+4 beats DR/adamantine
+5 beats DR/alignment
+6 beats DR/epic

This includes situational boosts e.g. Bane or Arcane Pool (but not GMW, other than the first one.)

So the only type of DR left (besides DR/- of course) that can get in your way is damage type - i.e. slashing/piercing/bludgeoning. You can beat this with the right weapon(s) or with a feat. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-versatility-combat)
Actually I kind of like the idea of a martial carrying different weapons for different foes. Sort of like a Witcher. I guess it can go to far (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/35382873/images/1412788040366.jpg), though.

[Troacctid]

The entry, as was quoted to me earlier, is:


Energy Attacks
Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit.

An acid or sonic attack against a psicrystal (with hardness 8) deals full damage, minus the hardness and whatever acid and sonic resistances it might have up at the moment. The exceptions call themselves out.

Right. Roll damage and apply it normally, just as you would for creatures, who do not use the hardness rules (outside of rare exceptions like animated objects).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Right. Roll damage and apply it normally, just as you would for creatures, who do not use the hardness rules (outside of rare exceptions like animated objects).And psicrystals. And monks with enhancement bonuses on their unarmed strikes. And warforged with enhancement bonuses on their body plating. And awakened plants. So, since some creatures DO use the hardness rules, you apply hardness as you normally would, both to them and to objects, without dividing by 2 or 4 or whatever, first.

[Extra Anchovies]

My next homebrew will be a Damage Reduction 15/4-sided die, because you may be an unstoppable killing machine, but stepping on a d4 it's just game over.

Along the same lines, I'm pretty sure Lego bricks count as Epic weapons for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction. Yowch!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Zaydos did me the kindness of showing explicitly that censusing the various monsters shows the opposite. Most monsters cannot innately overcome DR. Unless your DM leans heavily on hand-equipped NPCs are is buffing his monsters with pocket casters with GMW/GMF, it applies against a large number of melee creatures as long as you aren't in high double digits.Did that include all the monsters that don't typically make attacks that interact with DR, such as spellcasters and critters that make attacks that do things like energy damage or negative levels? Or those that would likely wield magic weapons at higher levels? Because even though they would be affected by DR/magic if they attacked with a nonmagical club or something, why would they bother? Like, the marilith would almost certainly have magic weapons, given how high of a CR she is, and the sheer amount of wealth she would have at that level. (Note all the stuff she has, in addition to the "plus 1d4 magic weapons." Some of that "stuff" could also be a magic weapon or three, just taken out of the rest of her loot.)

[Zanos]

Did that include all the monsters that don't typically make attacks that interact with DR, such as spellcasters and critters that make attacks that do things like energy damage or negative levels? Or those that would likely wield magic weapons at higher levels? Because even though they would be affected by DR/magic if they attacked with a natural attack or something, why would they bother? Like, the marilith would almost certainly have magic weapons, given how high of a CR she is, and the sheer amount of wealth she would have at that level. (Note all the stuff she has, in addition to the "plus 1d4 magic weapons." Some of that "stuff" could also be a magic weapon or three, just taken out of the rest of her loot.)
He specifically called out monsters that DR wouldn't help much against, such as the Basilisk preferring to gaze over attacking. Not sure how exhaustive the methodology was.

And yes, if you customize a monster to have magic weapons, it overcomes DR magic. Technically the loot they have is supposed to be randomly rolled, and isn't really available other than the pre-rolled magic items, but if your DM spends time customizing each monster to overcome your DR, they will. That applies to pretty much any form of DR, though.

[Beheld]

He specifically called out monsters that DR wouldn't help much against, such as the Basilisk preferring to gaze over attacking. Not sure how exhaustive the methodology was.

And yes, if you customize a monster to have magic weapons, it overcomes DR magic. Technically the loot they have is supposed to be randomly rolled, and isn't really available other than the pre-rolled magic items, but if your DM spends time customizing each monster to overcome your DR, they will. That applies to pretty much any form of DR, though.

I will just say, if you are fighting a Basilisk, you can totally just close your eyes, so if it does like 1-2 damage on a good roll against your DR/magic, you can totally just eat a 50% miss chance and beat it to death because it doesn't hurt you.


That is kind of a non-sequitur. Whether or not extra enhancement bonus is objectively worse than other enhancements is unrelated to whether Dr/magic is objectively better than Dr/+enhancement bonus system. You need to add a logical reason why the two are related.

As a side note you looked only at the current value not what it would be like with Dr/enhancement so here is the comparison. In the case of Greater Magic weapon the two systems are essentially identical (assuming it works to bypass DR, I'm unfamiliar with 3.0. If it doesn't refer to what it is like with out greater magic weapon). With out greater magic weapon the Dr/enhancement system make the enhancement bonus more valuable (This is arguably worse as plus 1 is more boring than most other abilities but it is also simpler).

If you want to leave in silver/good/cold iron ect. DR, and then just turn DR/Magic into DR/+numbers, then you still have all the problems that made DR/+numbers bad in the first place.

DR/+numbers is either DR/- or DR/magic. And which one it is entirely based on amount you choose compared to the level of the PC. (Okay yes, technically everything is DR/- to monks, because nerf MONKS am I right! but that's a minor point.) When you write a 3.0 monster, it either has DR that the PCs pierce at that level, or it doesn't. And you basically know the answer to that when you write the monster. When I did an evaluation of monsters in the MM II, 3/4ths the monsters effectively had DR/Magic, because every PC was going to have that bonus, and 1/4th were deliberately written with +numbers that the PCs literally could not possibly have at that level, so it's just DR/-.

If you really feel like you need to give some monsters with DR/magic DR/- instead, you can, but if you don't want to do that, I wonder what possible goal you think you are accomplishing by replacing DR/magic with DR/+numbers.

[MasterFu]

This may be very niche, but DR/magic should also help you vs mechanical traps, swarms, and holdout weapons.

[Mordaedil]

The SRD says:

That means that environmental hazards, falling, stubbed toes, and paper cuts are not reduced by DR.

Also, any creature with DR/magic overcomes DR/magic:

That means it's useless against those creatures, too.

It's also useless against energy damage, environmental effects, damaging spells/psionics/spell-like/psi-likes/supernatural abilities, non-damaging attacks, status effects, magic weapons (of course), and anything else that isn't a completely non-magical, physical attack. And even some non-magical, physical "attacks" don't work against it, such as falling objects and Ex/Na attack abilities that aren't a melee or projectile attack (like stomping a crack in the ground and crushing you when you fall in).

So basically, DR/magic is very nearly useless against the vast majority of attacks you'll deal with during a game. Hardness, however, works against all forms of damage that don't explicitly overcome it, such as many psionic [sonic] powers.

I thought natural attacks refered to slam attacks, fist, claws, bites and the like.