A person seeking to break into the Dungeons and Dragons universe

[Pizza_Guy68]

Disclaimer: I have never posted on a forum before so I apologise if this is bad form.

So, as the title states. I am currently trying to weasel my way into the Dungeons and Dragons universe and I have no idea where to start. So I have come here in an attempt to find someone who would be willing to guide me through the process and, perhaps, teach me how to post on a forum as well.

I am open to all critique and suggestions, negative or positive.

[Ruslan]

Hello Pizza_Guy! I would suggest starting with the Basic Rules (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules) pdf. After skimming through that, if you have any questions or doubts, I'm sure this forum can help you!

[Sir cryosin]

Are you looking to play online or at a table? If you looking for online check out looking for groups here on playground or roll20, and fantasy grounds. Or a table aka real life sitting around a table. Check out your local comic shop, game, or any place we're you can buy quote geeky nerdy stuff. I DM at my local comic shop and on a different night play there I also play in a online game on fantasygrounds. The best thing you can do is find a group and start playing and if you injoy it buy the players hand book. Between you reading the phb and your group helping you. You'll lean the rules quickly.

[Pizza_Guy68]

I'm looking to play online, I'm really confused with the rolling of my character. I look up classes/races and there are a bunch of websites that seem to contradict one another. Or maybe I'm missing something that's also a possibility.

Btw, Thanks for replying. I didn't expect a response soo quickly. o.o

[Addaran]

I'm looking to play online, I'm really confused with the rolling of my character. I look up classes/races and there are a bunch of websites that seem to contradict one another. Or maybe I'm missing something that's also a possibility.

Btw, Thanks for replying. I didn't expect a response soo quickly. o.o

Some sites use house rules and modified classes. Or they didn't copy the PHB right. Best would be to use the Basic Rules pdf linked earlier, with the errata, or the full PHB.

It's also possible that you're looking at other version of DnD, even if you specify 5ed, you might gets links to 3.5 or 4ed.


Depending on your previous experience with RPGs and MMOs, i'd suggest a character that isn't too complicated. The fighter(champion) and rogue (thief) are great for that. But if you're used to video games, even the wizard, cleric or any classes might be easy for you.

[Pizza_Guy68]

Some sites use house rules and modified classes. Or they didn't copy the PHB right. Best would be to use the Basic Rules pdf linked earlier, with the errata, or the full PHB.

It's also possible that you're looking at other version of DnD, even if you specify 5ed, you might gets links to 3.5 or 4ed.


Depending on your previous experience with RPGs and MMOs, i'd suggest a character that isn't too complicated. The fighter(champion) and rogue (thief) are great for that. But if you're used to video games, even the wizard, cleric or any classes might be easy for you.

I'll have to double check the editions and I'll stick to the handbook like suggested.
Also, my friends (just as new as me) want to play a Thief and a Sorcerer. Does that mean I should roll up a sort of "front-liner" to support them or am I left with more options?

[TheProfessor85]

Honestly you should play what sounds fun to you. Come up with a character concept and try to achieve by reading the rules and class race descriptions. Even ask the DM on the kind of setting he's going with.

[Gastronomie]

I'll have to double check the editions and I'll stick to the handbook like suggested.
Also, my friends (just as new as me) want to play a Thief and a Sorcerer. Does that mean I should roll up a sort of "front-liner" to support them or am I left with more options?Hello, nice to meet you!

Well, you're probably right in that if you think of party composition there should be a tank as well. This can be a Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, or melee Ranger. Moon Druids and certain Cleric builds (Tempest and War) also make good frontline fighters. Light Clerics can be good at both melee and ranged.

But what's more important is the character you want to play, the guy you have in mind. If you have any idea on the type of character you want to use, we can propose ideas on how to convert that into the game mechanics (class, race, feats, etc.)

[Pizza_Guy68]

Hello, nice to meet you!

Well, you're probably right in that if you think of party composition there should be a tank as well. This can be a Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, or melee Ranger. Moon Druids and certain Cleric builds (Tempest and War) also make good frontline fighters. Light Clerics can be good at both melee and ranged.

But what's more important is the character you want to play, the guy you have in mind. If you have any idea on the type of character you want to use, we can propose ideas on how to convert that into the game mechanics (class, race, feats, etc.)

I really like the idea of being a warlock with the "Great Old One" pact. However, I almost feel obligated to be a sort of "tank" being as I haven't chosen or rolled yet.

Edit: I also like the RP value of the "Undying" but I'm unsure of how it would impact gameplay.

[Ghost Nappa]

I really like the idea of being a warlock with the "Great Old One" pact. However, I almost feel obligated to be a sort of "tank" being as I haven't chosen or rolled yet.

Edit: I also like the RP value of the "Undying" but I'm unsure of how it would impact gameplay.

Alright, so, let's go into a variety of basic topics from here.

I'm going to assume you're looking to play fifth edition because you're posting in the 5th edition forums.

D&D characters have six fundamental stats: Strength (how easily a creature can physically manipulate the world around it with its body), Dexterity (a mixture of aim and evasiveness), Constitution (how physically resistant and resilient something is), Intelligence (how smart a creature is at learning, discovery, and free thinking), Wisdom (a mixture of awareness, judgment, and mental resilience), and Charisma (how well a creature can project its personality and will).

When your DM (the game's organizer, leader, narrator, and wearer of many other hats) asks you to make a character, they will tell you how to generate numbers for those six stats. The most common methods involve rolling six-sided dice (or simply, the d6) or using a point allocation method. Both methods are described in more detail in the Player's Handbook (the PHB).

Now, let's say you want to play an Undying Warlock.

Let's say that you roll a 12, a 15, a 7, a 14, a 17, and a 10. For convenience, we organize these numbers in descending order (17/15/14/12/10/7).

Warlocks have a lot of features based off Charisma. It influences how successful their spells are which is a big part of a successful spellcaster. So, we're going to say that the 17 is your Charisma.

Personally speaking, I like staying alive and adventurers strike me as needing a kind of hardiness in order to do their jobs, so I tend to value having a decently high Dexterity and Constitution. So, let's say that your Constitution is the 14 (giving you a bonus to your maximum HP, your ability to maintain your spells when attacked, and to minimize damage from some nasty effects), and your Dexterity is the 15 (improving your Armor Class (AC), or your ability to avoid being hit and your ranged weapon attacks like with Bows and throwing knives).

Now comes the trickier part. As a Warlock, you don't particularly need Strength, Intelligence, or Wisdom. So which one is more important? Well, the usual answer is Wisdom because it gauges your ability to detect enemy threats and lies with skills like Perception and Insight. So let's say you put the 12 there. What do you do with the other two? Personally, I would make Strength the 7 and Intelligence the 10. So we have some numbers now!

STR: 7 (-2)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON 15 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 17 (+3)

You might notice the numbers in the parentheses are a bit odd. Those are the bonuses to each stat from the quality of the score. A score of 10 or 11 is considered average and gets no bonus (+0). For every two point difference, that bonus is increased/decreased. A score of 1 has a -5 bonus, while a score of twenty has a +5 bonus.

So, we've thrown down our stats...what is our character's ancestry? Human? Elven? Dragonborn? Mechanically speaking, Half-Elf or Human (Variant) is probably your best choice. There are a lot of other good choices. Drow (Dark Elf), Halfling (Lightfoot), Tiefling, Dragonborn... you could pick something that isn't as strong mechanically and still have tons of fun, so pick whatever seems coolest for you.

You'll likely start at Level 1, so the next main thing you'd have to figure out is your character's Alignment ( a loose guideline for how they behave in the world) and their background (were they a Sailor, or a Vampire Hunter, the second cousin twice removed from an emperor, a street performer?).

....


If you've never played D&D before and you want to enjoy a nice, simple tank as a first character of sorts, there is the Fighter (Champion), which is the bread and butter classic, basic tank. It is well suited for beginners and you won't hear any complaints from your party, but you will always have more fun playing what characters you want to play, even if your party is a little askew.

[Pizza_Guy68]

Alright, so, let's go into a variety of basic topics from here.

I'm going to assume you're looking to play fifth edition because you're posting in the 5th edition forums.

D&D characters have six fundamental stats: Strength (how easily a creature can physically manipulate the world around it with its body), Dexterity (a mixture of aim and evasiveness), Constitution (how physically resistant and resilient something is), Intelligence (how smart a creature is at learning, discovery, and free thinking), Wisdom (a mixture of awareness, judgment, and mental resilience), and Charisma (how well a creature can project its personality and will).

When your DM (the game's organizer, leader, narrator, and wearer of many other hats) asks you to make a character, they will tell you how to generate numbers for those six stats. The most common methods involve rolling six-sided dice (or simply, the d6) or using a point allocation method. Both methods are described in more detail in the Player's Handbook (the PHB).

Now, let's say you want to play an Undying Warlock.

Let's say that you roll a 12, a 15, a 7, a 14, a 17, and a 10. For convenience, we organize these numbers in descending order (17/15/14/12/10/7).

Warlocks have a lot of features based off Charisma. It influences how successful their spells are which is a big part of a successful spellcaster. So, we're going to say that the 17 is your Charisma.

Personally speaking, I like staying alive and adventurers strike me as needing a kind of hardiness in order to do their jobs, so I tend to value having a decently high Dexterity and Constitution. So, let's say that your Constitution is the 14 (giving you a bonus to your maximum HP, your ability to maintain your spells when attacked, and to minimize damage from some nasty effects), and your Dexterity is the 15 (improving your Armor Class (AC), or your ability to avoid being hit and your ranged weapon attacks like with Bows and throwing knives).

Now comes the trickier part. As a Warlock, you don't particularly need Strength, Intelligence, or Wisdom. So which one is more important? Well, the usual answer is Wisdom because it gauges your ability to detect enemy threats and lies with skills like Perception and Insight. So let's say you put the 12 there. What do you do with the other two? Personally, I would make Strength the 7 and Intelligence the 10. So we have some numbers now!

STR: 7 (-2)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON 15 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 17 (+3)

You might notice the numbers in the parentheses are a bit odd. Those are the bonuses to each stat from the quality of the score. A score of 10 or 11 is considered average and gets no bonus (+0). For every two point difference, that bonus is increased/decreased. A score of 1 has a -5 bonus, while a score of twenty has a +5 bonus.

So, we've thrown down our stats...what is our character's ancestry? Human? Elven? Dragonborn? Mechanically speaking, Half-Elf or Human (Variant) is probably your best choice. There are a lot of other good choices. Drow (Dark Elf), Halfling (Lightfoot), Tiefling, Dragonborn... you could pick something that isn't as strong mechanically and still have tons of fun, so pick whatever seems coolest for you.

You'll likely start at Level 1, so the next main thing you'd have to figure out is your character's Alignment ( a loose guideline for how they behave in the world) and their background (were they a Sailor, or a Vampire Hunter, the second cousin twice removed from an emperor, a street performer?).

....


If you've never played D&D before and you want to enjoy a nice, simple tank as a first character of sorts, there is the Fighter (Champion), which is the bread and butter classic, basic tank. It is well suited for beginners and you won't hear any complaints from your party, but you will always have more fun playing what characters you want to play, even if your party is a little askew.

Thank you, firstly for such a long and detailed response and secondly for the insight I've gained from reading your response.

//Sorry for the lack of clarity, yes I'd be playing 5e

My GM said something about point buy for stats and that I have 27 of them. I had rolled a barbarian to get an idea of how it worked but he said I had messed up the stat allocation. I didn't quite understand his explanation as to why, apparently I hadn't spent enough points.

As to the character's ancestry, I'd actually like to roll a tiefling, the idea of a human/demon outcast bargaining with a powerful being as a shortcut for power, seems interesting to role-play. At least, that's how I perceived the pact system.

[Addaran]

Thank you, firstly for such a long and detailed response and secondly for the insight I've gained from reading your response.

//Sorry for the lack of clarity, yes I'd be playing 5e

My GM said something about point buy for stats and that I have 27 of them. I had rolled a barbarian to get an idea of how it worked but he said I had messed up the stat allocation. I didn't quite understand his explanation as to why, apparently I hadn't spent enough points.

As to the character's ancestry, I'd actually like to roll a tiefling, the idea of a human/demon outcast bargaining with a powerful being as a shortcut for power, seems interesting to role-play. At least, that's how I perceived the pact system.

I'll let the others explain the stats and point buy, they'll be clearer then me.

You're right about the pact at least roleplay wise. In-game, it's often a bargain with "something" to get powers quicker or even something you normaly couldn't get. But mechanically, it's the same power-level then other classes. You don't really have a disadvantage from having made a bargain (but if you're interested and your DM agrees, it could lead to complication, RP, side-missions, etc) and you aren't more powerfull then the other classes.

Since you seem interested in the pact fluff and being a new member/the team missing a tank, you could do a mix of both. Play a tiefling fighter! (not optimal race, but darkvision is nice, you get resistance to fire the most commun damage and a few spells to learn slowly.) For the concept, your character was a human that made a pact to have a better body then a weak human one. It could be because you weren't as strong as others, a fire-mage beat you and you wanted to resist it or cause lacking darkvision was too much handicapping. Maybe you sold your soul, killed an innocent for "entity" or summon an extraplanar being to the material plane. You can decide if you feel guilt for doing it. =)

[Pizza_Guy68]

I'll let the others explain the stats and point buy, they'll be clearer then me.

You're right about the pact at least roleplay wise. In-game, it's often a bargain with "something" to get powers quicker or even something you normaly couldn't get. But mechanically, it's the same power-level then other classes. You don't really have a disadvantage from having made a bargain (but if you're interested and your DM agrees, it could lead to complication, RP, side-missions, etc) and you aren't more powerfull then the other classes.

Since you seem interested in the pact fluff and being a new member/the team missing a tank, you could do a mix of both. Play a tiefling fighter! (not optimal race, but darkvision is nice, you get resistance to fire the most commun damage and a few spells to learn slowly.) For the concept, your character was a human that made a pact to have a better body then a weak human one. It could be because you weren't as strong as others, a fire-mage beat you and you wanted to resist it or cause lacking darkvision was too much handicapping. Maybe you sold your soul, killed an innocent for "entity" or summon an extraplanar being to the material plane. You can decide if you feel guilt for doing it. =)

Oh, I totally understand that it wouldn't make me more powerful than other classes. It just seems like a neat way to account for the powers I have as an adventurer as well as a neat sort of back-story lore behind the motivation behind my character's actions.

[Gastronomie]

I really like the idea of being a warlock with the "Great Old One" pact. However, I almost feel obligated to be a sort of "tank" being as I haven't chosen or rolled yet.

Edit: I also like the RP value of the "Undying" but I'm unsure of how it would impact gameplay.If you take your first level in Fighter and go the rest in Warlock with Pact of the Blade, you can be a Bladelock, a powerful build that's good at both spell and melee combat. Will talk more later when I have time (bit busy right now).

[Pizza_Guy68]

If you take your first level in Fighter and go the rest in Warlock with Pact of the Blade, you can be a Bladelock, a powerful build that's good at both spell and melee combat. Will talk more later when I have time (bit busy right now).

That's completely understandable. Thanks again for the help, I will be going to bed soon, so forgive me if it takes awhile for me to get back to the thread.

[Toadkiller]

The main thing is if the group is having fun, you're doing it right so don't sweat the small stuff. I've been in many games where we discovered that at some point or another we had forgotten a rule, misunderstood something or some other thing that was "wrong". We just don't let it bother us, we adjust things if that is feasible and go on. Not saying this because I think it isn't obvious. But rather than sometimes all the rules get daunting. It's a great hobby, but it does take a little while to understand all the jargon. It will become easy enough after a few sessions.

Welcome!

[CaptainSarathai]

My GM said something about point buy for stats and that I have 27 of them. I had rolled a barbarian to get an idea of how it worked but he said I had messed up the stat allocation. I didn't quite understand his explanation as to why, apparently I hadn't spent enough points.

As to the character's ancestry, I'd actually like to roll a tiefling, the idea of a human/demon outcast bargaining with a powerful being as a shortcut for power, seems interesting to role-play. At least, that's how I perceived the pact system.

Point Buy is the preferred method to building characters who are neither too Over Powered(OP) or too weak. You have a pool of 27pts and you "buy" your scores instead of rolling for them. No score can be lower than 8, or higher than 15, before Race modifiers. The costs are:
8 = 0pts
9 = 1pt
10 = 2pts
11 = 3pts
12 = 4pts
13 = 5pts
14 = 7pts
15 = 9pts

Note that "10" is considered the base for any skill. When you roll a check or save, having 10 in a skill means you neither add or subtract from the roll. If you have a 10 you are "average". If you have an 8 or 9 you're kinda bad, and subtract 1 from whatever roll you make using thst stat. If you have a 12, you get +1 to the roll, and an additional +1 for every 2 marks higher you go in that ability, (so 14 is +2, 16 is +3, 18 is +4). The maximum score in any ability is 20 (+5 to rolls).
After picking your scores, you add your Racial Bonus to them. A Tiefling gets an extra +1 Intelligence and +2 Charisma. This makes them very good at being Bards, Paladins, Sorcerers, and Warlocks. They make pretty good Wizards.

As far as a Class, if you want to play a Warlock but feel that your party needs a Tank, you have some options.
1. Go straight Blade Pact Warlock, with the Fiend Patron. Undying seems cool, but it is somewhat weaker than the other choices. It tries to make you hard to kill, but a lot of it is redundant with stuff you get later as a Warlock. It's also from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, which might not be okay with your DM if he wants to stick to PHB material to keep things simple. This also matters, because the other options require Multi-classing, which some DMs will not allow.
2. Take a level or two of Fighter and then Multi-classing into Blade Pact Warlock. You lose nothing from Warlock, but gain Heavy Armor and Weapon proficiencies of the Fighter, and his saves (Con and Str). You could also start Fighter, take 2 levels of Warlock, and then go back to Fighter. You will do more in Melee like this, bit cast fewer spells.
3. If your DM is really cool, ask if you could start as a Paladin and then multiclass into Warlock. Like Fighter, you get Armor and Weapon proficiencies, but gain a few other cool features and spells that Fighters don't have.

There's also a sort of crazy build that actually starts off as a Barbarian, but it's a little more advanced and not quite what you think of when you think "Warlock", so we won't talk about that unless you ask. You can also take 3 or more levels of Sorcerer at any time, and really do a lot to help yourself out. Again though, I can explain more if you ask.

Right now, all you need to think about is what you want to be at Level1.

So you have your ability scores, and you need to distribute them and pick your first level. See below:


A Warlocks primary ability is usually Charisma, and you will probably be using your Charisma to hit and deal damage up until at least Level 3, using the Eldritch Blast cantrip. At level 2 you add an Invocation called Agonizing Blast to add your Charisma to the damage of Eldritch Blast.
Also, the Fiend Patron gives you an ability that grants you Temporary Hit Points after killing an enemy. The HP granted is Your Warlock Level + Charisma. So having a high Charisma is important.
But!
As a BladeLock, you will also want a lot of Hit Points since you will be in melee range and getting hit. Your Hit Points at first level are equal to your Hit Die (a d8 for Warlocks) + Constitution, and you also gain that much at every additional level. So Con is rather important too.
Lastly, you need to hit and deal damage with your melee weapons, and consider how to protect yourself in a fight. Melee weapons mostly use Strength, adding the modifier to Hit and Damage rolls. Ranged weapons and certain melee weapons with the Finesse property, add your Dexterity to the rolls, instead. Finesse weapons are usually lighter and deal less damage, the maximum is a Rapier, dealing D8 damage.
Dexterity is also added to your Armor Class. Without wearing armor, you have an AC of 10+Dex. Warlocks are proficient in Light Armor, and when wearing armor, your AC is equal to the Armor+Dex. The best light armor is Studded Leather which has an AC of 12+Dex. At level 2 you can take the Armor of Shadows Invocation, and cast Mage Armor at will. Mage Armor has an AC of 13+Dex if you are wearing no other armor.
Because of this, many Warlocks prefer to have a higher Dex, and leave Strength alone, using Rapiers in combat.

So your 3 highest abilities should be Dex, Charisma, and Con, in that order.. With your +1Int,+2Cha from Tiefling, I would start with:
Str. 8
Con. 15
Dex. 15
Int. 9 +1
Wis. 9
Cha. 14 +2

At Level 4, you get to add +1 to 2 Abilities, or +2 to 1 ability, or take a Feat. I would add +1 to Con and Dex to get them to 16. Later, try to get Dex to 20 ASAP, since it affects your Hits, Damage, and AC.

Once you have your Abilities, you choose your Skills. With a high Charisma, you make a good "Face" - the one who does all the talking for the party. However, your buddy is playing a Sorcerer and they are 100% Charisma. With a high Dex you also make a good Scout or Thief. But your other friend is already playing a Rogue and has that locked down. That makes skill choices kind of tricky. I would ask what skills your friends are taking, and try to take whatever they are not, to help round out the party.

Next, as a Warlock, you choose your Spells. You start with 2 Cantrips. These are spells you can use all the time, kind of like an attack. Your primary cantrip as a Warlock is always Eldritch Blast. It's the best cantrip in the game, and does damage on par with the Fighter once you get the Agonizing Blast invocation at 2nd level.
After that, pick another Cantrip. At this point, you have an interesting choice. If you have access to stuff from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, you could choose Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. What makes these spells interesting, is that they include a Melee Attack with your weapon as part of the spell, and then scale with extra d8 to damage at 5th, 11th, and 17th level, plus have secondary damage effects. This means that they can be almost as good as making 2 weapon attacks with your Rapier (which you can do as a BladeLock after Level5), and are just as good if you happen to multiclass a few levels Dragon Blood Sorcerer and add your Charisma to certain spell damage types. Booming Blade in particular is also very good if you take the Warcaster feat later on, which allows you to cast a spell when you could make an Opportunity Attack. What makes Booming Blade so good for this, is that OAs are usually triggered when an enemy is trying to move away from you, and Booming Blade deals a lot of extra damage if the enemy chooses to move - so the enemy has to either stop, or keep moving and take a ton of damage.
Another interesting option for Cantrip is Blade Ward. It takes an action, but it gives you Resistance to Melee Damage until the end of your next turn. This is useful if you find yourself surrounded by enemies and need to buy yourself some time to be rescued, but it also pairs very well with the Armor of Agathys spell, because the Resistance reduces the amount of damage you take, but does not reduce the amount of damage taken by the enemy. Like Booming Blade, this is also better if you take levels in Sorcerer later on.

After Cantrips, you also know 2 Spells. Out of the Level 1 spells, Hex is almost mandatory for any Warlock. Later on, you will be getting multiple attacks with your sword, and multiple shots with Eldritch Blast, and Hex does an extra D6 damage per hit.
After Hex, a melee Warlock does well with either Armor of Agathys or Hellish Rebuke. Armor of Agathys is good because you can cast it and forget it, gaining some extra Hit Points and dealing damage when enemies hit you. It gets better as you level, and can become very powerful, especially with levels of Dragon Blood Sorcerer later on (noticing a trend?) Hellish Rebuke takes up a Reaction and doesn't add Hit Points, but does more damage when you get hit. My suggestion is to take it until you get the Warcaster feat (probably at level 8, since you're getting Dex and Con to 16 first) and then retrain it for Armor of Agathys.


Okay, so I mentioned that you can take a Feat at certain levels, and how Eldritch Blast is nearly as good as a Fighter's attack. Well, in fact, until level 12, and then after level 17, it is better than any pact attack you'll make, and it doesn't take up one of your Invocations to make it better. The problem is that if an enemy is within 5' of you (melee range) you have Disadvantage on ranged attack rolls. So what you could do, is take the Crossbow Expert feat, which has the benefit of ignoring the Disadvantage and also ignoring cover on the attack. You can basically use Eldritch Blast instead of a melee attack - you wouldn't need Pact of the Blade at all. This would let you take Pact of the Chains for a cool Familiar, or Pact of the Tome.
What's cool about Tome is that you learn 3 extra Cantrips. This can get you a Bard spell called Shillelagh, which turns your Quarterstaff into a magical weapon that does d8 damage and uses Charisma instead of Strength or Dex when attacking. So you use that for your Opportunity Attacks. With Warcaster, you can still do the trick with Booming Blade, just like a BladeLock.


If you decide to start with a level in Fighter you will gain several useful proficiencies. First, you gain proficiency with all Armor, Shields, and Weapons. You also begin the game with a better weapon and armor than you would with a Warlock. You also get a unique Fighting Style to improve your damage or defense, and Second Wind which gives you a way to quickly regain health mid-fight.
Starting as a Fighter also presents you with more options than a "pure" Warlock might have. You should decide early what you want to do: go FighterX/Warlock2, or Fighter1-2/WarlockX.


Taking more levels in Fighter means that you have more attacks, more Feats or Ability Score Increases (aka ASIs) and better saves. You also choose a Martial Archetype instead of a Warlock Pact.
The most common choice for a "Gish" character, is the Eldritch Knight archetype. It uses the Wizard spell list, which uses Intelligence, one of the things you get a bonus to as a Tiefling. Unfortunately, Warlock stuff still all cues off of Charisma, which makes you very MAD (Multiple Ability Dependent). This means you will want a high score in Charisma for your Warlock abilities, Constitution for your Health, Strength or Dexterity for your attacks and AC, and Intelligence for your Wizard spells.

The big ability for Eldritch Knight comes at 11th level, when you get War Magic - an ability that lets you make a single weapon attack as a Bonus Action after casting a spell. The strategy would be to cast your defensive spells from the Wizard list, like Shield, and then smack someone with your sword. For maximum damage, you'd cast Eldritch Blast from your Warlock list, and then hit with your sword.

The downfall to this is that you can do the same thing but better by taking 3 levels of Sorcerer and getting Metamagic: Quicken Spell. This gives you the ability to cast a spell as a Bonus Action, so you could make your full attack (2+ attacks), and then cast a spell on top of that. At this point, a "Pure" Warlock with some Sorcerer levels could just throw 2 Eldritch Blasts and deal more damage than the Eldritch Knight

If you do decide to go Eldritch Knight, your Ability Scores should probably be:
Str. 15*
Con. 14
Dex. 10*
Int. 12 +1
Wis. 8
Cha. 13 +2
And at level 4, when you get a +1 to 2 stats or +2 to 1 stat or a Feat, I would increase Strength and Charisma to 16. In later levels, get Strength to 20 ASAP, followed by Charisma or Intelligence.
*You can alternate Strength and Dex. With more Dex you'll be lightly armored, and probably use Finesse or Ranged weapons, and a Shield. With more Strength, you will wear Full Plate Armor and attack with a 2-handed weapon or a Longsword and Shield. Note that as long as your Dex reaches 20, if you take the Armor of Shadows Invocation, your AC will be exactly the same.



The more powerful of the two options, in my opinion. Choosing this means that you are taking 1 or 2 levels as a Fighter and then going Warlock for the rest of your career. The big draw here is Constitution Proficiency, and all Armor and Shields. You also get Second Wind for quick health recovery, and Fighting Style for improved armor or defense. Thats just Level 1. Choosing to go to Level 2 gives you Action Surge - a powerful ability that allows you to take 2 Actions in a single turn, once per Short Rest (incidentally, you also regain all of your Warlock Spell Slots on a Short Rest - how's that for synergy?)

This build highly favors going Strength rather than Dexterity and using either a Halberd, Glaive, Pike or Quarter-Staff and taking the PoleArm Master feat at level 12. This is because Polearms are essentially the only "double weapons" in D&D right now, giving you a Bonus Action Attack with the butt-end for an extra chance to add Hex and Life Drinker damage from your Blade Pact abilities.

So for the stats on this character, I highly suggest:
Str. 15
Con. 15
Dex. 9
Int. 9 +1
Wis. 8
Cha. 14 +2
And at 4th level you get +1 to 2 abilities or +2 to 1 ability or a Feat, take the +1s and get Strength and Constitution to 16. Later, get Strength and Charisma to 20 ASAP.


6 levels is as far as you can take Fighter before losing the awesome Level 14 Hurl Through Hell ability from the Fiend Patron Warlock.
Level 6 Fighter gives you Extra Attack (technically gained at Level 5) and frees you up from taking the Thirsting Blade invocation at level 5 Warlock. It also gives you more Health back when using Second Wind. It will give you a Martial Archetype at 3rd level, which I suggest taking as Champion for the improved Critical Hit chance.
At 6th level, you also gain an additional Ability Score Improvement or Feat. Any multiclassing typically means giving up the fest you gain at 19th level, but Fighter effectively gives you this feat back, and gives it to you early. This is excellent, as it lets you boost your skills more quickly or take the potent Warcaster feat to use Spells as an Opportunity Attack (notably Booming Blade from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide)

Because you already have Extra Attack from Fighter, technically, the only reason to become a BladeLock is for Life Drinker invocation at Warlock 12 for adding Charisma to damage. This means that you could take Pact of the Chains for a neat familiar or Pact of the Tome for extra spells. Notably, you can snag a Bard spell called Shillelagh, which lets you turn your Arcane Focus Quarter Staff into a magical weapon that deals d8 damage and uses your Charisma to Hit and Damage. This means that you only need to put your Strength up to 15 to wear Full Plate without penalty, and can use the other Ability Score Improvements to increase Charisma and Constitution or gain more Feats.


Either way, as a Fighter you gain access to Fighting Styles. The best for a BladeLock are:
Defense - good for having a better AC in armor, especially if you are carrying a 2 Handed Weapon instead of a Shield.

Dueling - probably the best for a BladeLock, especially one wielding a Quarter-Staff (if your DM allows the PoleArm Master feat when wielding a Quart staff with one hand). You can carry a Shield in your off-hand with this, and as long as you have your Arcane Focus: Staff, Quarter Staff you do not need the Warcaster feat to cast spells with components (although the Feat is still highly recommended for other reasons). This is a +2 to Weapon Attacks, and will affect both ends of a Quarter Staff when using the PoleArm Master feat and stacks with Life Drinker invocation's additional Charisma worth of Necrotic Damage.

Great Weapon Fighting - is worth an extra .5 or 1 damage per hit, depending on what weapon you are using to make the attack. The rerolls have been ruled to not apply to extra damage from things like Hex, but it's still useful if you're using a weapon larger than a Quarterstaff, like a Glaive, Pike, or Halberd. Note that if wielding a 2 handed weapon, you do not need the Warcaster feat to cast spells, as you are allowed to take your hand on/off the weapon as a Free Action as part of casting the spell or attacking with the weapon.

Either way, once you've finished taking your levels in Fighter, switch to taking Warlock levels as described in the section above. If going FighterX I would take my levels of Warlock starting at 5th or 7th level.


Starting Paladin is similar to starting Fighter, but you don't get Constitution Proficiency. Instead, you get Divine Smite. This is really the focus of a Paladin Warlock combo. All you are really using your Warlock levels for, is Life Drinker at 12th level, Hurl Through Hell at 14th level, Eldritch Blast as a Ranged attack option, and renewing spell slots for Smite.

The first 2 levels of Paladin mean that you start with All Armor and Weapon Proficiencies, and a weapon and armor to match. You also get Divine Smite here. This ability allows you to expend a Spell Slot to deal +1d8 per spell level in addition to your regular damage. You add an extra d8 to Fiends or Undead. Usually, a Paladin at 6th level has 4 1st level slots, and 2 2nd level slots per day. A Warlock hybrid would have 2 1st level per day, and 2 2nd level per short rest. At level 20, the difference is 2 level 5 slots per day, compared to 4 5th level slots per short rest. It's fewer spells over all, but more of a higher level, and the potential to reset every Short Rest could actually mean more per day to burn.

You also gain a Fighting Style at 2nd level. The best for a BladeLock are:
Defense - good for having a better AC in armor, especially if you are carrying a 2 Handed Weapon instead of a Shield.

Dueling - not as good for Paladins as it is for a Fighter, but still decent if you're wielding a Quarter-Staff (if your DM allows the PoleArm Master feat when wielding a Quarter staff with one hand). You can carry a Shield in your off-hand with this, and as long as you have your Arcane Focus: Staff, Quarter Staff you do not need the Warcaster feat to cast spells with components (although the Feat is still highly recommended for other reasons). This is a +2 to Weapon Attacks, and will affect both ends of a Quarter Staff when using the PoleArm Master feat and stacks with Life Drinker invocation's additional Charisma worth of Necrotic Damage.

Great Weapon Fighting - is worth an extra .5 or 1 damage per hit, depending on what weapon you are using to make the attack. The rerolls have been ruled to not apply to extra damage from things like Hex, but it's still useful if you're using a weapon larger than a Quarterstaff, like a Glaive, Pike, or Halberd. Note that if wielding a 2 handed weapon, you do not need the Warcaster feat to cast spells, as you are allowed to take your hand on/off the weapon as a Free Action as part of casting the spell or attacking with the weapon.

You could stop there and begin levelling Warlock. Or, you can go on to 3rd Level and gain a Sacred Oath. This is where it gets rather tricky, because the DM might restrict your choices based on your Warlock Pact.
Ideally, you want Oath of Devotion, for their Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon, which adds your Charisma to attack rolls. You can only do this once per Short Rest (incidentally, your Warlock Spell Slots also recharge on a Short Rest - how's that for synergy?)
Otherwise, Oath of Vengeance is pretty good, for Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity (also once per Short Rest), to give Advantage on attacks against a chosen enemy.
In either case, these are best used to offset the -5 penalty from Great Weapon Master feat, which gives -5 To Hit, +10 Damage when using a 2 handed weapon.

Going all the way to 6th level gives you Extra Attack which frees you from taking Thirsting Blade invocation at Warlock5, and also grants Aura of Protection, adding your Charisma Bonus to Saving Throws made by you, or allies within 10' of you. This is a powerful ability, especially since most Warlocks are maxing out their Charisma anyway.

Multiclassing in or out of Paladin requires at least Strength 13. Wearing Full Plate requires at least Strength 15. This strength requirement, combined with the Channel Divinity options explained above allowing easy use of Great Weapon Master, means that Paladins highly value Strength builds, and go into battle carrying 2 handed weapons, especially Halberds, Glaives, or Pikes if they can get the PoleArm Mastery feat as well. PoleArm Mastery effectively makes the weapons listed above the only "double weapons" in 5e - granting an extra Bonus Action Attack with the butt of the weapon, which benefits from Smite, Great Weapon Master and the +Charisma to Damage from the Life Drinker invocation.

For Ability Scores you likely want:
Str. 15
Con. 15
Dex. 9
Int. 9 +1
Wis. 8
Cha. 14 +2
At level 4 you get +1 to 2 stats or +2 to 1 stat or a Feat. I would use the +1 to 2, and get Strength and Con to 16, then get Great Weapon Master next if going to Paladin 3 or 6, otherwise use it to get Strength and then Charisma to 20 ASAP. Get PoleArm Master before Warlock 12 grants Life Drinker, and if you have space, and especially if you aren't taking Great Weapon Mastery and have access to material from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, get War Caster, at some point to go with the Booming Blade cantrip.

Edit - since you're away, and I can probably knock these out, I'll show you the other two builds, firstly because mixing in Sorcerer is a stupidly powerful combo mentioned a few times earlier in the post, and also the Barbarian build I hinted at, because it's just funny.


Alright, so taking levels in Sorcerer is pretty simple, but you need to take a minimum of 3 levels. At this point, you've gained two things:

Sorcererous Origins - you can choose between two different ancestries here, but from the PHB, Dragon Blood is the best over all. You gain immediate, "always on" Mage Armor at 1st level. That's AC= 13+Dex just because. Also, since you're going to be in combat and taking hits, the D6 Hit Die of a regular Sorcerer is sort of wimpy. The +1HP/level gain essentially offsets this right back to a D8.
At 6th level, you add Charisma to spell damage with a chosen type - choosing Lightening means that you add this to Booming Blade, officially offsetting Life Drinker at all but the highest levels, and rendering Thirsting Blade and therefore Blade Pact nearly obsolete.
Go nuts and take this all the way to 14th level, and you get Wings.

Metallic - at 3rd level you gain the ability to use Sorcery Points to alter spells you cast. The big kicker here is Eldritch Blast, which can be combined with Metamagic - Quicken Spell to be fired as a Bonus Action. This alone is disturbingly powerful, allowing you to throw as much At-Will damage at 5th level, as a Fighter would throw at 20th (4d10+4xCha, +4d6 if Hex is up).
The trouble with Sorcery Points normally, is that a Sorcerer doesn't get many to start the day, and has to sacrifice spell slots to get more. With Pact Magic from Warlock though, you have spell slots that recover on a Short Rest. While there is as maximum number of Sorcery Points that can be carried, they don't rest until a Long Rest, so unless you're already maxed out, you just burn your Warlock Slots after every Short Rest.
You can use Sorcerer Spell Slots to cast your Warlock Spells, and can also use Sorcerer Points to create new Spell Slots.

As icing on the cake, starting with Sorcerer at 1st level gives Constitution Proficiency, although it's still alright to take a level or two of Fighter for the heavy armor and Action Surge, if you want to be really OP. It's worth pointing out that a true "Blaster Build," focusing on Quickened Eldritch Blast only needs 2 levels of Warlock, just to get Eldritch Blast and the Agonizing Blast invocation. Add in the Crossbow Expert feat at that point however, so that you can use Eldritch Blast at melee range.

You could easily go Fighter2, Warlock2, Sorcerer16 for this build. Make your stats the same way you would for the regular Warlock, above.

And now for some insanity...

This doesn't really fit your RP fluff, because it barely focuses on Warlock as a class. But it does male you the best tank in the game, and actually gives you some really nice boosts and healing to throw around the party, when you aren't frothing with RAGE!!

This build is very specific: Barbarian5/Warlock1/Cleric14. You could sacrifice levels of Cleric, to get more Rages as a Barbarian, notably at level 6 and 12. To me, this is giving up too much from the Cleric.

Start with these ability scores:
Str. 14
Dex. 14
Con. 14
Int. 8+1
Wis. 13
Cha. 11+2
That's a Tiefling. For this, I strongly encourage Half Elf, for +2 Charisma, and +1 to 2 others.
Str. 15 +1
Dex. 9
Con. 14
Int. 8
Wis. 15 +1
Cha. 9 +2

Start with 1 level of Cleric. Choose War Domain. This gives you Proficiency with All Armor and Weapons. You start with Chainmail and a Warhammer.

Next, take 5 Levels of Barbarian. This gives you Rage and Reckless Attack and Extra Attack. At 3rd level, take Totem Warrior and choose the Bear Totem. At 4th level, increase Charisma +2

Then, take 1 Level in Warlock. Your pact hardly matters here, but take Fiend for the Temp HP on kills. For cantrips choose Blade Ward and for spells take Armor of Agathys.

The build is now "online." Take all remaining levels in Cleric.

The strategy here is simple. When Raging you cannot Cast spells, or Concentrate on spells. Luckily, Armor of Agathys doesn't require Concentration. Cast Armor and then enter your Rage. With Bear Totem you Resist all damage except Psychic while in Rage. This means you take half damage from all other sources. This does not reduce damage taken by enemies as a result of Armor of Agathys. Armor grants 5*SpellLevel in TempHP, and deals that much damage on each hit. This is why we want a "full caster" class, to get the highest level spell slots possible, for the most TempHP and damage. But why Cleric?

1. The Armor Proficiency, plain and simple.
2. War Priest - Cleric is the only full-caster class with the option to do something outside of combat, dealing Bonus Action Attacks once per Wisdom Modifier
3. 5th Level 'Bestow Curse' - Yet another spell which (when cast with a lvl5 slot or higher) does not require Concentration. This spell adds +d8 damage per hit.
4. Divine Strike - adds an extra d8 damage per hit. Increases to 2d8 at final level.

Unfortunately, you can't Curse until 15th level and don't even gain the additional D8 for Divine Strike until 14th.
But at 10th level you would be throwing out Str16 hits with Great Weapon Master for
4d6+30, with another Bonus Action for 2d6+15, and carry 10hp with Resistance and dealing 10hp when hit.
At 16th level, the rest finally comes online and it deals out:
4d6+2d8+32 plus the Bonus 2d6+d8+16, has 25 temp HP and doles 25 damage on hit.

[Gastronomie]

I don't know any DMs that disallow multiclassing though.

IMO Fighter 1 dip > Paladin 2 dip for Bladelocks. Getting proficiency with CON saves is very important for a Frontline Caster.

[CaptainSarathai]

I don't know any DMs that disallow multiclassing though.

IMO Fighter 1 dip > Paladin 2 dip for Bladelocks. Getting proficiency with CON saves is very important for a Frontline Caster.

I've seen all the "Optional Rules" disabled for new players.

As far as Con proficiency, a lot of these builds benefit from Warcaster, which grants Advantage on Con saves. That's usually better than the Proficiency Bonus, up to about Lvl17.

[Gastronomie]

I've seen all the "Optional Rules" disabled for new players.Really? Well, I think it's actually more fun to customize (it's not like having feats and multiclassing may result in newbies creating bad characters - it's actually harder to create weak characters in 5e), so I frown upon that rule, but well, it depends on the DM I suppose.

As far as Con proficiency, a lot of these builds benefit from Warcaster, which grants Advantage on Con saves. That's usually better than the Proficiency Bonus, up to about Lvl17.Of course you'd also get War Caster at Warlock level 4. But why not get both?

Paladin 2 gives you some healing, but divine smite is honestly not the ability for you when you get only 2 spell slots per short rest. If you want a Paladin gish build, Paladin/Sorcerers are far better IMO.

Bladelocks, I believe, are fine with Fighter 1. Also, apart from that, Paladins have to change their spell lists every day, and together with all the resource-management, I think it's not exactly suitable for beginners.

[CaptainSarathai]

Paladin 2 gives you some healing, but divine smite is honestly not the ability for you when you get only 2 spell slots per short rest. If you want a Paladin gish build, Paladin/Sorcerers are far better IMO.

Bladelocks, I believe, are fine with Fighter 1. Also, apart from that, Paladins have to change their spell lists every day, and together with all the resource-management, I think it's not exactly suitable for beginners.

Smite with 2 spells isn't much worse than what a Paladin gets anyway - they're not full casters. Like I said, topped out, Warlocks get 4, 5th level slots per short, where Pallies only get the 2. Yes, they have plenty of lower level slots for other stuff, but Smite has more damage potential when properly applied.

I agree that Sorcadins are viciously good and mostly set the standard for a Gish, but if you just want to pound damage, a Paladin is really not too bad. With just 2 slots as a Warlock, I hardly throw levelled spells as it is. "Wasting" them to throw Smites would at least get them used.

The choice between Fighter or Paladin is down to what you want to do. Fighters are probably the better option for pure damage, but a Paladin can get mileage from their spells, and if not, beat you over the head with them. Ever that Lay On Hands doesn't burn slots.

Then again, if you're truly optimizing, you don't take a BladeLock at all. You take a SorLock and just blast away like a machine gun all day long.

[Gastronomie]

Then again, if you're truly optimizing, you don't take a BladeLock at all. You take a SorLock and just blast away like a machine gun all day long.No. Just, no.

This sort of thinking makes me truly disgusted. Why are you even attempting to compare a melee combatant and a ranged combatant? Do you really think they can be actually compared? They're completely different things.

Bladelocks can be well optimized options. What you said is blantly wrong and also disrespective to all the people out there favoring Bladelocks. It's truly atrocious, unpleasant, and offensive. Please take back that statement.

[MrStabby]

No. Just, no.

This sort of thinking makes me truly disgusted. Why are you even attempting to compare a melee combatant and a ranged combatant? Do you really think they can be actually compared? They're completely different things.

Bladelocks can be well optimized options. What you said is blantly wrong and also disrespective to all the people out there favoring Bladelocks. It's truly atrocious, unpleasant, and offensive. Please take back that statement.

I think you want blue for sarcasm.

Unless you honestly think someone having a different opinion is offensive.

[Gastronomie]

I think you want blue for sarcasm.

Unless you honestly think someone having a different opinion is offensive.*calms down*

Perhaps I was a bit too emotional when I posted. But my opinion is unchanged that it's impossible to compare melee and ranged builds. Especially so since this is a thread meant for a beginner... that sort of way of thinking is not something I want a beginner to believe in. (Perhaps the other side may believe in the opposite, but still.)

[Pizza_Guy68]

I've seen all the "Optional Rules" disabled for new players.

As far as Con proficiency, a lot of these builds benefit from Warcaster, which grants Advantage on Con saves. That's usually better than the Proficiency Bonus, up to about Lvl17.

I'm absolutely positive my DM would allow me to multi-class. I'm not sure I'd like to mutli-class, however. I think for my first character I'll go pure warlock as to keep things simple. I would also like to thank you for the absolute treasure trove of information and help you've provided for me. I really appreciate it.

[2D8HP]

@Pizza_Guy68,
5e DnD is a lot of fun and well worth learning.

From the classes and races it seems like you have a lot of rules mastery already, and that you'll be fine just playing whatever looks cool to you, but if you want to keep it easy and not get bogged down with options, the simplest class to play, is the (Champion) Fighter, the next simplest is the (Thief) Rogue.

A muti-classed Champion/Thief High Elf with the Firebolt Cantrip is a lot of fun to play, but a "standard" human Fighter is the easiest to start as. Learn and use the "Second Wind" feature.

If you want to DM (please do), it's usually more work, but the "world-building", and acting out NPC's part of the game is the most fun for me, but rules adjudication is a bit of a hassle for me.Try to keep the players away from the Players Handbook, and just have them use the online free rules as long as possible, as it's all the extra player options that make it a more complex game and a chore to DM.
Rotating DM duties is often well worth it, but if the other players force you to be the sole DM and memorize and use all the "optional rules", you may want to think twice, as they are a lot of shiny abilities, and at higher levels DM'ing becomes more of a chore, if you not digging the "storyteller" part of being a DM enough.
I find that switching characters and going from DM to player (and back), has kept the game fresh (and fun!) for me for decades.

Good luck and have fun!

[Pizza_Guy68]

@Pizza_Guy68,
5e DnD is a lot of fun and well worth learning.

From the classes and races it seems like you have a lot of rules mastery already, and that you'll be fine just playing whatever looks cool to you, but if you want to keep it easy and not get bogged down with options, the simplest class to play, is the (Champion) Fighter, the next simplest is the (Thief) Rogue.

A muti-classed Champion/Thief High Elf with the Firebolt Cantrip is a lot of fun to play, but a "standard" human Fighter is the easiest to start as. Learn and use the "Second Wind" feature.

If you want to DM (please do), it's usually more work, but the "world-building", and acting out NPC's part of the game is the most fun for me, but rules adjudication is a bit of a hassle for me.Try to keep the players away from the Players Handbook, and just have them use the online free rules as long as possible, as it's all the extra player options that make it a more complex game and a chore to DM.
Rotating DM duties is often well worth it, but if the other players force you to be the sole DM and memorize and use all the "optional rules", you may want to think twice, as they are a lot of shiny abilities, and at higher levels DM'ing becomes more of a chore, if you not digging the "storyteller" part of being a DM enough.
I find that switching characters and going from DM to player (and back), has kept the game fresh (and fun!) for me for decades.

Good luck and have fun!

Thank you. It's nice to meet a community that's soo welcoming.

[odigity]

I think for my first character I'll go pure warlock as to keep things simple. I would also like to thank you for the absolute treasure trove of information and help you've provided for me. I really appreciate it.

I was about to jump into the thread to snap Gastronomie and CaptainSarathai out of the rabbit's hole of advanced optimization debate they had gotten distracted with and remind them that this thread is for helping a beginner, but I guess you made it through alright anyway, so nevermind. :)

[Pizza_Guy68]

After Cantrips, you also know 2 Spells. Out of the Level 1 spells, Hex is almost mandatory for any Warlock. Later on, you will be getting multiple attacks with your sword, and multiple shots with Eldritch Blast, and Hex does an extra D6 damage per hit.
After Hex, a melee Warlock does well with either Armor of Agathys or Hellish Rebuke. Armor of Agathys is good because you can cast it and forget it, gaining some extra Hit Points and dealing damage when enemies hit you. It gets better as you level, and can become very powerful, especially with levels of Dragon Blood Sorcerer later on (noticing a trend?) Hellish Rebuke takes up a Reaction and doesn't add Hit Points, but does more damage when you get hit. My suggestion is to take it until you get the Warcaster feat (probably at level 8, since you're getting Dex and Con to 16 first) and then retrain it for Armor of Agathys.

So, I've been looking at the tiefling racials and they start with Hellish Rebuke as a racial. Wouldn't that make taking it as a level one spell redundant and make Armor of Agathys my default go to?

[Sigreid]

The others are doing a good job with the mechanical and fluff stuff so I'm going to comment on something else. Like with any social activity there are good groups and bad groups, and whether it's really enjoyable largely depends on whether you enjoy the group you're doing it with. Starting with a friend helps. But if you find you don't click with the group you start with, try another group. If you do find a group you click with you may find you play with them for a very long and good time.

[Ghost Nappa]

So, I've been looking at the tiefling racials and they start with Hellish Rebuke as a racial. Wouldn't that make taking it as a level one spell redundant and make Armor of Agathys my default go to?

For your purposes, yes, (but in general, no). Tieflings can cast Hellish Rebuke... once per day. (Or effectively, once per long rest.)

I would recommend the following choices of spells for a Tiefling Warlock at Level 1:

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast (this is your ranged attack option, which you can customize a bit later), Your choice of Mage Hand or Minor Illusion.

Mage Hand is a short range telekinesis you can use to set off traps from a distance, pick pockets, grab things out of reach, or what will you. Minor Illusion allows you to make some simple tricks of stationary objects (make an archway disappear by filling up the passage with stone, create a stonewall in a tight passage to trick enemies into going around it, or to create apparent cover). Both of them are limited by your creativity, and you can pick up the other one later.

1st-Level Spells: Armor of Agathys and Hex. Armor of Agathys is to buff yourself against melee attackers by giving yourself more HP to fend them off and punishing them with cold damage if they hit you. Hex is a nerf you against enemies to deal more damage to them and to weaken their rolls.


When you get to Level 2, you'll start getting your second class feature Eldritch Invocations. Generally speaking, you want to look for things that give you good at-will abilities, or things that improve things you already do at will like Agonizing Blast, Armor of Shadows, Book of Ancient Secrets, Devil's Sight, Eldritch Sight, Lifedrinker, Repelling Blast, Master of Myriad Forms, Misty Visions, Thirsting Blade. You want to avoid things like Sculptor of Flesh, which expends two resources to do something.

[Pizza_Guy68]

For your purposes, yes, (but in general, no). Tieflings can cast Hellish Rebuke... once per day. (Or effectively, once per long rest.)

I would recommend the following choices of spells for a Tiefling Warlock at Level 1:

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast (this is your ranged attack option, which you can customize a bit later), Your choice of Mage Hand or Minor Illusion.

So for a Blade pact warlock you think it'd be better to take Mage Hand over, say, Booming Blade or Blade Ward? I understand that their practical applications are virtually limitless but do you think it'd be more effective for what I'd be doing?

[Sigreid]

So for a Blade pact warlock you think it'd be better to take Mage Hand over, say, Booming Blade or Blade Ward? I understand that their practical applications are virtually limitless but do you think it'd be more effective for what I'd be doing?

Booming blade is all right. Blade Ward is taking your action to gain resistance. In effect it's playing for a draw and hoping your companions finish the fight.

[Gastronomie]

So for a Blade pact warlock you think it'd be better to take Mage Hand over, say, Booming Blade or Blade Ward? I understand that their practical applications are virtually limitless but do you think it'd be more effective for what I'd be doing?Since you should get War Caster at Warlock level 4, Booming Blade is good. These two combo together nicely (using BB as an opportunity attack deals amazing damage).

Make sure to take the Fiendish Vigor invocation. +8 temporary HP in-between every battle is amazing, especially at low levels (you can keep on casting False Life till you roll 4 with 1d4).

[Pizza_Guy68]

Since you should get War Caster at Warlock level 4, Booming Blade is good. These two combo together nicely (using BB as an opportunity attack deals amazing damage).

Make sure to take the Fiendish Vigor invocation. +8 temporary HP in-between every battle is amazing, especially at low levels (you can keep on casting False Life till you roll 4 with 1d4).

What makes War Caster good? Is it because it lets me cast a spell instead of an Opportunity Attack?

[Gastronomie]

What makes War Caster good? Is it because it lets me cast a spell instead of an Opportunity Attack?You're fighting on the frontlines, and will occasionally take damage. When you do so, especially since you said you're not going Fighter 1 (thus no proficiency with CON saves), you can easily break your spell concentration on good spells like Hex and Hypnotic Pattern.

War Caster gives you advantage on concentration, meaning you lose it less. That's a good thing for you.

[Pizza_Guy68]

You're fighting on the frontlines, and will occasionally take damage. When you do so, especially since you said you're not going Fighter 1 (thus no proficiency with CON saves), you can easily break your spell concentration on good spells like Hex and Hypnotic Pattern.

War Caster gives you advantage on concentration, meaning you lose it less. That's a good thing for you.

That makes sense. I can't wait to actually play my character to see how it all works. I mean it's one thing to read about it and understand it conceptually but I'd love to see how it all works in-game.

Edit: Say I did take fighter level 1, would taking War Caster still be necessary?

[Gastronomie]

That makes sense. I can't wait to actually play my character to see how it all works. I mean it's one thing to read about it and understand it conceptually but I'd love to see how it all works in-game.

Edit: Say I did take fighter level 1, would taking War Caster still be necessary?In my understanding, yes. >War Caster

[CaptainSarathai]

But my opinion is unchanged that it's impossible to compare melee and ranged builds. Especially so since this is a thread meant for a beginner... that sort of way of thinking is not something I want a beginner to believe in. (Perhaps the other side may believe in the opposite, but still.)

It is, because of Crossbow Expert. Normally I would agree with you - getting say, a ranged Fighter to compare to a melee Fighter takes 2 feats (SS = GWM, CE allows melee shots). Eldritch Blast on a Warlock is another story, however. Warlocks don't have an easy way to offset GWM, so don't need to offset it. Eldritch Blast has an attack progression based on character level. To make a competitive BladeLock takes 2 Invocations and requires an additional Ability Score (Str/Dex).
Lvl5 PAM BladeLock: 2d10+d4+3d6+9 = 33
Lvl5 Dex BladeLock: 2d8+2d6+6 = 22
Lvl5 CE BlastLock: 2d10+2d6+6 = 23

Lv12 PAM BladeLock: 2d10+d4+3d6+24 = 48
Lv12 Dex BladeLock: 2d8+2d6+16 = 32
Lv12 CE BlastLock: 3d10+3d6+15 = 42

Lv17 PAM BladeLock: 2d10+d4+3d6+30 = 54
Lv17 Dex BladeLock: 2d8+2d6+20 = 36
Lv17 CE BlastLock: 4d10+4d6+20 = 55

So, the only way to keep up with a BlastLock is to max out both Strength and Charisma, and take 2 Invocations over 1, and can only do that damage into melee. Both have a feat tax (PAM vs CE) but only because you might want to blast into melee. If you want to have a halfway decent AC, you're also topping out on Dex or MCing into Fighter. And if you're willing to open up MCs, 3+ levels of Sorc for Metamagic doesn't slow down your EB progression and doubles that damage. Warcaster is also more effective in regards to pure damage on a BlastLock.

As far as telling that and/or promoting that mentality to a newbie...


I was about to jump into the thread to snap Gastronomie and CaptainSarathai out of the rabbit's hole of advanced optimization debate they had gotten distracted with and remind them that this thread is for helping a beginner, but I guess you made it through alright anyway, so nevermind. :)

I agree with that somewhat. Got a little carried away with suggesting level dips just for armor. That said - I don't think it's necessarily bad to give people info like that. I'm not gonna go Wade W. Wilson Pizza-Guy into super-optimizing his character; he can take my advice as far as he wants. He can take it right to the garbage can if he likes, and it won't offend me a bit.


I'm absolutely positive my DM would allow me to multi-class. I'm not sure I'd like to mutli-class, however. I think for my first character I'll go pure warlock as to keep things simple. I would also like to thank you for the absolute treasure trove of information and help you've provided for me. I really appreciate it.

Cool, running a straight BladeLock or any Warlock really, is still a solid option. I specced out damage up there, and even a "suboptimal" BladeLock is pulling around 75% of what the "optimized" versions would be. It's pretty hard to outright 'gimp' a character in 5e, and you'll have more fun running a character you build yourself with a good back story that you can get attached to.

I'll get back to the rest later. I took too long after cueing that reply

[Sabeta]

I've skimmed through this and thought I would weigh in a bit.

Don't EVER let other players fun dictate your own. Especially since this is your first game I would suggest that you play a little bit selfishly. Also, a lot of players are going to recommend doing things from a mechanically sound standpoint, and I personally advise against that as well. D&D is first and foremost a roleplaying game. If you want to min-max every minor detail then play an RPG Video Game or something where the goal isn't having fun with your friends.

That all being said, if you want to play a Great Old One Warlock it might be more fun than playing a token Melee-Tank just because nobody else is. Yes, doing so may cause your party to be weaker than it could be, and the struggle of not having a tank can lead to some truly tense situations that might end up way more fun than a typical Paladin Build. If your DM knows what he's doing, an imbalanced party isn't a huge issue as he can design encounters to play towards your strengths rather than your weaknesses.

Some of my favorite stories involve characters where the player focused on giving them some huge weakness (I once played a one-armed Paladin) rather than than how a V.Human Fighter with a Glaive and Polearm Master+Great Weapon Master did 100 damage in a singly round at level 5. Playing super powerful or optimized characters is exciting exactly once. That's when you wow the crowd with your totally amazing build and then everyone feels sour about your power-gap afterwords when you do it again.

tldr: Don't worry too much about getting into D&D. Trust your DM, and just have fun with your friends. Understanding the game will come naturally after about two or three sessions.

As a final note: If you're really dedicated to roleplaying, check out the Sword Coast Adventurer's guide. There are plenty of illegal means to aqcuire it if you don't want to pay (and if you stick with D&D, I strongly encourage that you do eventually purchase it, if only to support Wizards), and it details how the world works and where things are and a few other nice things that really help you figure out what you want to be in this world. There are also D&D books that are set in these worlds, but I don't read them for fear of trying to copy their characters (I've seen so many Raistlins...)

[Pizza_Guy68]

As a final note: If you're really dedicated to roleplaying, check out the Sword Coast Adventurer's guide. There are plenty of illegal means to aqcuire it if you don't want to pay (and if you stick with D&D, I strongly encourage that you do eventually purchase it, if only to support Wizards), and it details how the world works and where things are and a few other nice things that really help you figure out what you want to be in this world. There are also D&D books that are set in these worlds, but I don't read them for fear of trying to copy their characters (I've seen so many Raistlins...)

I've actually read quite of a bit of R.A. Salvatore's books. If that means anything. I've always enjoyed the dungeons and dragons universe but I've never had an opportunity to try and join it until recently.

[Sabeta]

I'm not a particularly imaginative person. I've been building a homebrew campaign, but most of the worlds elements are borrowed form other games. If I read D&D books more often I would probably end up just stealing the characters.

[CaptainSarathai]

So, I've been looking at the tiefling racials and they start with Hellish Rebuke as a racial. Wouldn't that make taking it as a level one spell redundant and make Armor of Agathys my default go to?
In that case, just start with Armor of Agathys.


So for a Blade pact warlock you think it'd be better to take Mage Hand over, say, Booming Blade or Blade Ward? I understand that their practical applications are virtually limitless but do you think it'd be more effective for what I'd be doing?
You get an extra Cantrip at 4th, just take Booming Blade then. You don't have Warcaster until 4th (best use of Booming Blade) and you don't have a Pact Weapon until level 3. For the first 2 levels, your best attack is to stand back and Eldritch Blast, unless you start with Fighter and carry a weapon. If that's case, yes, Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade will be better than the other cantrips.


Booming blade is all right. Blade Ward is taking your action to gain resistance. In effect it's playing for a draw and hoping your companions finish the fight.
Blade Ward is really only best if you take levels of Sorcerer later, and can cast it as a Bonus Action with Metamagic in combination with Armor of Agathys.


Make sure to take the Fiendish Vigor invocation. +8 temporary HP in-between every battle is amazing, especially at low levels (you can keep on casting False Life till you roll 4 with 1d4).
Not necessarily - some DMs don't allow this, so it's best to ask first. The average (2.5 + 4) is pretty worthless, only about 1 hit from an enemy. Also, TemHP doesn't stack, so if you cast Armor of Agathys you lose the boost anyway. Same goes for the Fiend ability to gain extra HP (Fiend is awesome for BladeLocks).
Also, you're quite limited on number of Invocations known, and most DMs do not allow you to retrain them. If you don't go with Fighter1, then Armor of Shadows is mandatory for a BladeLock, as you'll need the armor.

The one I would consider optional (for a pure BladeLock or Fighter BladeLock) is actually Agonizing Blast. If your primary method of attack is usually going to be your sword rather than shooting Eldritch Blast, then you don't really need the giant bonus anyway. This frees you up for either Fiendish Vigor (especially with a generous DM) or taking Devil's Sight.
Tieflings get Darkness at 5th level, and unless you have Devil's Sight you're essentially Blinding yourself as well. BladeLocks make extensive use of this combo, if the rest of the party is out of the way or you're feeling selfish. It's basically instant Advantage on your attacks against anyone in the dark.


What makes War Caster good? Is it because it lets me cast a spell instead of an Opportunity Attack?
It gives Advantage on Concentration Checks when you take damage. Advantage is typically worth about +5 to a roll, which is better than your Proficiency up until 17th level. If you have levels of Fighter, it's still useful and makes it so that you almost never fail the check to keep your spells up.
It also lets you cast spells with Somatic components (hand signals) while you have both hands full. This doesn't matter for 2-handed weapons, because you can just take the hand off. But combined with a Spell Casting Focus (like a staff), you can essentially cast a spell with no hands. Freeing you up to carry a shield in your off hand if you've taken Fighter and gotten the Proficiency with them.
Finally, it makes Booming Blade incredibly powerful. When the enemy declares they are moving away, you hit them with Booming Blade and then, if they choose to keep moving out of your reach, they take the extra damage (2d8 until level5, the +1d8 at 5,11, and 17).



Edit: Say I did take fighter level 1, would taking War Caster still be necessary?
Less necessary for maintaining Concentration, but still excellent, because now you can carry a Shield and still cast, are very good at maintaining Concentration, and can still lock people down with Booming Blade.

There is one other feat that I'll add to the list of considerations, and it really makes going that first level as a Fighter worth it - Polearm Master.
This is the only way for Warlocks to do more damage with a Pact Weapon than they would do with Agonizing Eldritch Blast. That is because it gives you a bonus attack with the back of the weapon - since it's the same weapon (your Pact Weapon) it still benefits from Life Drinker. It's also an extra shot with Hex.

All Pole weapons require Strength. Strength doesn't do anything for your AC, and these weapons are the only reason to boost it. There are 3 ways to make that "acceptable".

1) Fighter - you're already considering this, but Fighter gives you Heavy Armor so that you don't need your Dex at all. Instead of boosting Dex, you boost Strength. It also gives you Fighting Styles, so you can take Defense and get +1AC, or you can take Duellist and use a Quarter Staff in one hand. This is awesome because it lets you use your Arcane Focus Staff as your weapon (see Warcaster, above) and carry a shield. The +2 to Damage actually makes the D6 hit like a heavier D10 Halberd, and the Shield gives +2AC, better than the +1 for Defense style.

2) Monk - the 13 Wisdom required for multiclassing in/out of Monk stinks. But at least it's tied to a useful skill: Perception, so you don't really want to dump it if you can afford not to anyway. But taking a level in Monk (at any time) makes Quarterstaff a Dex weapon. This means that you can just boost your Dex, which also affects your HP, and it lets you stay nice and Stealthy.

Half-Elf or Elf - this can be taken alone, or combined with either of the other two options. Elves and Variant Half Elves (who give up their bonus Skills) can get an extra Cantrip. Take Shillelagh. This makes a Quarterstaff into a magic weapon that cues off Charisma. Now you only need to max out 1 attack stat for your Attack and Damage rolls. As an added bonus, it increases the Quarterstaff to d8 damage (but has no effect on the d4 end).

[Shining Wrath]

Welcome pizza guy. Your forum form is fine, meeting all accepted formulas for formulation and flourishing amidst these fora. :smallsmile:

I found my current D&D group through Meetup dot com. If you want to play around a table, that's one way to start.

A way to learn some of the lingo / feel (although absolutely NOT the game rules & mechanics) would be to pick up the video game Sword Coast Legends. However, if you've ever played any video game where you control a character who "gains levels", you've played a game that borrowed from D&D. Final Fantasy, Dragon Warriors, and the like give you a sense for "team of people who adventure together and contribute different things".

There's an downloadable set of rules at the website for Wizards of the Coast (WotC), the publishers of D&D and also the currently-more-popular Magic, the Gathering. It's called the System Reference Document (SRD). Warning: it's not complete. You will at some point need a copy of the Player's Handbook (PHB).

Good luck finding people to play with. You will make friends, and that's the best part of it.

EDIT:

Since you and your friends are new to D&D, I humbly suggest that the 3 of you view your first characters as experiments. Play whatever sounds fun to you, ask the DM to give you a short campaign, and learn how to interact as a team and what the DM's style is. Every DM is different. Then you can see if you want to carry on with these characters or create new ones.

[Pizza_Guy68]

So, I've been having a hard time finding any information about this specifically but, being a warlock I am not proficient with the use of rapiers innately, correct? Even after I take the Pact of the Blade.

It looks like I have to bust out ye olde eraser to make some changes to my character sheet as well.

[Sabeta]

You are not technically proficient in anything a Warlock isn't proficient with, but any weapon you create via the Pact Weapon feature is considered Proficient for you. So if you use your Pact Weapon feature to spawn a Rapier, then you're proficient with it. You can also convert up to one magic item at a time into your Pact Weapon, storing it in some extradimensional space. In that case, you are proficient with it.

[Pizza_Guy68]

You are not technically proficient in anything a Warlock isn't proficient with, but any weapon you create via the Pact Weapon feature is considered Proficient for you. So if you use your Pact Weapon feature to spawn a Rapier, then you're proficient with it. You can also convert up to one magic item at a time into your Pact Weapon, storing it in some extradimensional space. In that case, you are proficient with it.

Okay, that helped me clear up my biggest concern about my character. I was afraid I wasn't going to be proficient with the weapon I would have.

[Shining Wrath]

So, I've been having a hard time finding any information about this specifically but, being a warlock I am not proficient with the use of rapiers innately, correct? Even after I take the Pact of the Blade.

It looks like I have to bust out ye olde eraser to make some changes to my character sheet as well.

You are innately proficient with simple weapons. You'll have to rely on that to get you to 3rd level when Pact of the Blade kicks in. As noted, you'll be automatically proficient with your pact weapon no matter what form it takes. The only simple finesse weapon is the dagger. But once you hit 3rd, you can use all the martial finesse weapons listed - rapier, scimitar, shortsword, and whip - so long as its your pact weapon. Whip does give reach if you ever need it.

[2D8HP]

Okay, that helped me clear up my biggest concern about my character.Sounds like your already way more "in the weeds" rules wise than I was after a year of playing 5e, and over a decade of playing previous editions of D&D.
I'm not worried about whether you "get it" at all!
Welcome to the hobby, and please let us know how the adventures of your PC went!

[Millstone85]

I've actually read quite of a bit of R.A. Salvatore's books. If that means anything. I've always enjoyed the dungeons and dragons universe but I've never had an opportunity to try and join it until recently.When I started playing D&D a few years ago, I believe that the thing I got most confused about was the setting.

It took me time to understand that the continents of Faerûn and Khorvaire were on different planets altogether (called Toril and Eberron, respectively) that may or may not be found in the same three-dimensional universe or "plane". They were also from different story settings (The Forgotten Realms and Eberron) with different interpretations of core fantasy concepts (Is the existence of gods an obvious truth? Can you buy a flying carpet at the local store? Etc.). That's how my first character ended up being of the warforged race even though it doesn't exist in Faerûn, where the adventure was taking place, and I wasn't prepared for the various contradictions it would bring.

And this was only my first issue of this type, because the fourth edition added an extra layer of confusion by placing its Player's Handbook in a new setting that never said its name (It can be found on the Internet as Points of Light or Nentir Vale or The Dawn War) but borrowed the names of its gods and such from other settings. I kept wondering if the things I read about "Bane" were about the guy who was once a mortal or the guy who had always been a god. Very annoying.

With fifth edition D&D, I like the way the Player's Handbook makes reference to several settings and apparently isn't written for any one in particular. Even the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, which is written specifically for a region of Faerûn, offers advice on how to reinterpret its options for different settings. That's what I should have done with my warforged, make it a golem created by some wizard or found in some ancient ruins.

I am not saying D&D crossovers are a bad idea. I love what I read about Planescape and Spelljammer. I just wish I had been aware of the extra work it required.

I hope some of this was relevant to this thread about breaking into "the Dungeons and Dragons universe".


Also, you're quite limited on number of Invocations known, and most DMs do not allow you to retrain them.Are you sure you are not thinking about cantrips? Retraining invocations is in the rules.

Although I do try to make each invocation an important and permanent change in my warlock's life.


Mage Hand is a short range telekinesis you can use to set off traps from a distance, pick pockets, grab things out of reach, or what will you.The odd thing about mage hand is that the rogue feature Mage Hand Legerdemain implies that picking pockets is not possible with the base spell, even though I would never have deduced that from the text of the spell.

[Pizza_Guy68]

Sounds like your already way more "in the weeds" rules wise than I was after a year of playing 5e, and over a decade of playing previous editions of D&D.
I'm not worried about whether you "get it" at all!
Welcome to the hobby, and please let us know how the adventures of your PC went!

To be honest all I have been doing for the past few days is looking stuff up and asking you guys questions, >.< ... I'm still not done with my character sheet and I'm not quite soo sure it should be taking as long as it has been. There's a lot of spaces I'm not entirely sure what to do with.

[Sigreid]

To be honest all I have been doing for the past few days is looking stuff up and asking you guys questions, >.< ... I'm still not done with my character sheet and I'm not quite soo sure it should be taking as long as it has been. There's a lot of spaces I'm not entirely sure what to do with.

Something that can be good to do is get the group together for a practice session if you will. People have characters that they think they might like, the person who is going to DM creates a small dungeon with a few simple encounters and you learn by doing. After the session, you wipe everything clean, people keep their character or re-make if they find they didn't like their class as much as they thought they would and you start the real game. A dress rehearsal to let you experience the rules with nothing on the line.