Schattenbach
2016-10-10, 03:04 PM
Hello,
as I'm currently working on a slightly setting that includes protected cities & regions (with the parts of the world "outside" of those protected areas being more or less monster infested and ruled by dragons, fey and giants, among others ... though especially the lots and lots of dragons are noteworthy, I guess) with significantly advanced societies (at least to some degree comparable to our society today) with reasonably advanced non-magical technology and quite highly advanced magitek/magical engineering (it's not outright something that goes towards Tippyverse as there are still gods around watching out for things going out of hand ... some slightly more traditional regions are comparable to say ... the Nasuverse, i.e. Fate/StayNight & Tsukihime ecetera setting like slightly rural towns or academic regions favouring slightly less ... while others are quite modern or outright futuristic in terms of applied magietech - lets compare it to something slightly more advanced ... like Blazblue - while still remaining respectful towards various traditional cultural values and such and culture in general to keep old knowledge from getting lost and to keep society stable)... besides giving (sufficiently societies slightly larger knowledge in regard to what classes are actually worthwhile (Tier 1 up to and including Tier 3 and other lower tier classes only as multiclass dips at best ... as well a some Tier 4 classes boosted up by taking Prestige Classes for those that simply aren't qualified enough or otherwise blessed with sufficient talent, actual magical/psionic capabilities and/or motivation but still need something to do as well as possibly some Tier 5 classes pimped out heavily with prestige classes ... ) for those that possess talent for it (and, if possible, also the right stats to actually utilize that class without it being to troublesome), is there some other reasonable way to somehow improve the setting in such a way that the number of commoners/mudanes (and such) goes down at least somewhat while still ensuring that pretty much all of societies needs are dealt with (it's not like, for example, Able Learner Human Skillmonkeys would have any trouble performing pretty much any task commoners could do, only much better) and the number of high end characters (i.e. powerful spellcasters and people capable of creating powerful items & devices ... as well those guys that can make good use of powerful magical equipment, I guess) by increasing the affinity with specific classes (i.e. ... better suited states, possibly some useable ancestry, ecetera) and/or sheer talent (which, in this case, is more or less refering to latent potential ... as in ... the actual capability to - somehow - actually be able to reach high class levels in specific classes) so that more people are actually able to come close to or to actually step into epic levels.
One of the most used fictional excuse to make societies more powerful/talented would seem like they're spreading magical bloodlines around to spread general magical talent among the population while also using tools like political marriage in hopes of creating even more talented magical (well, or psionic) family lines (though I guess that that would especially boost the likes of sorceres and such that are "naturally talented", as I don't think that things are that easy for the likes of wizards that might also suffer from other factors influencing their talent) and such ... there's also the need to employ advanced education systems to fooster and improve the talent of promising individuals, I guess, and academic organisations that actually help people to progress (although the elite ones would likely still only take note of promising future elites) in their advancement.
Has someone else some suggestion in regard what else could be done for such a society (lets assume it's mostly made up out of humans, elves and a few other species that are possibly compatible with those two above, including some other humanoid & monstrous humanoid species & halfbreeds) to improve it further in regard to what#s been mentioned above (though if possible ... no suggestions that end up turning things into some kind of dystopia ... sure, there might be some organisations eager to go beyond what's acceptable in their pursuit of knowledge and/or power, but ... society as a whole shouldn't exactly go down the slippery slope to much as long as the gods are watching)?
Another point of note ...
... what kind of orthodox and/or mainstream class builds would characters in such culturally advanced (compared to typical quasi-middle-age DnD Fantasy Worlds) societies select for their career?
For arcane & divine casters, lets assume that the talent of "naturally talented" casters like sorcerers and such (with spontaneous casters also being able to make use of the spell point system, i.e. ... they potentially have more uses of their high level spells at the expense of endurance) has been improved quite a bit and that characters with good lineage have good chances (and support) to actually reach at least level 14+ during their lifetime and, ultimately, might actually even tackle epic levels later on. As such, it would be a society that favours "naturally talented" casters quite a bit (though wizards and such still have their obvious advantages in that they actually have access to much more spells) due to them having an easier time in actually reaching high levels. Casters with more spell slots also have quite a bit of use when it comes to utility stuff, rituals and supporting epic spell rituals (like creating wards to protect from something for their slightly more mundane use).
For arcane casters, I already looked up plenty of builds (most of them, expect some like the ones from the Ultimate Magus Handbook),that seemed like they are sufficiently cutting edge & feasible and came to the conclusion that two of the most mainstream-like yet still orthodox builds for arcane casters might be based on Ultimate Magus PrC (with additional wizard casting quite something as far as outside of combat versatility is concerned) & Mage of the Arcane Order PrC (that provides its spellpool among other things as noteable outside of combat utility toolbox) with some dips in other PrCs (Incanatrix, Archmage, ecetera) and Casting-based base classes:
Standard (Ultimate) Magus builds ...
Beguiler 1/Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Beguiler 1/Wizard 1/Elf Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Beguiler 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 1/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Incantatrix 5
Wizard 1/Spontaneous Class 1/Human Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Wizard 1/Spontaneous Class 1/Elf Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Wizard 2/Spontaneous Class 1/Wizard +2(4)/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
(Maybe some Wu Je Version might also make sense. Though I guess that most builds that include wizards are also reasonably compatible with Wu Je builds as plenty of those builds don't actually need scribe scroll or reach level 5 bonus feats)
Other likely (Ultimate) Magus standard builds ...
Wizard 2/Cloistered Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Ultimate Magus 7
Wizard 2/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Ultimate Magus 7
Illumian Beguiler 1/Wiz 3/Master Specialist 1/UM 10/Archmage 5
Bard 1/Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9
Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Spellthief 1/ Unseen Seer 2/ Ultimate Magus 10 / X 3
Wizard 3 / Dread Necromancer 1 / Spellthief 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Archmage 5
Non-Standard (Ultimate) Magus standard builds ...
Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ultimate Magus 1/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus +9/Archmage 3
Wizard 3/Trickster Spellthief 1/Bard 1/Arcane Caster Dips 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9
Standard Mage of the Arcane Order Build ...
Sorcerer X/possible early dips into some prestige classes/Standard Mage of the Arcane Order Build 7/dips into other prestige classes
I guess straight wizard, wu je, sorcerer & druid builds as well as builds with small or major dips into the likes of Incanatrix (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers), Archmage (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers), Dweomerkeeper (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers with one Cloistered Cleric Dip), Planar Shepard (for Druids and such) as well as some other (although often less powerful or stylish) non-highly-setting specific prestige classes should do just fine.
Cleric and Archivist might face meet some serious rival in the Warmage with Rainbow Servant 10 (even more so once he has one Sacred Exorcist dip) but it's not like they become lose much of value that way ... though I wonder how their modern versions would look like ... as they fullfill their fluff roles and Undead & Evil Outsiders are still something troublesome to deal with and Clerics and Archivists are strong Tier 1 classes to begin with, they should have plenty of things to do but somehow no build that would particulary well fit into more modern settings (or well enough to become one of the mainstream builds) comes to mind.
What to do with the Ranger, though, to make him more compatible, though ... sure, Urban variations exist and they still serve some functions, but ... I'm not quite sure what their modern versions would actually look build wise?
Has someone else some suggestion in regard what builds might fit in or would like to point some things I might've overlooked?
Thanks in advance.
as I'm currently working on a slightly setting that includes protected cities & regions (with the parts of the world "outside" of those protected areas being more or less monster infested and ruled by dragons, fey and giants, among others ... though especially the lots and lots of dragons are noteworthy, I guess) with significantly advanced societies (at least to some degree comparable to our society today) with reasonably advanced non-magical technology and quite highly advanced magitek/magical engineering (it's not outright something that goes towards Tippyverse as there are still gods around watching out for things going out of hand ... some slightly more traditional regions are comparable to say ... the Nasuverse, i.e. Fate/StayNight & Tsukihime ecetera setting like slightly rural towns or academic regions favouring slightly less ... while others are quite modern or outright futuristic in terms of applied magietech - lets compare it to something slightly more advanced ... like Blazblue - while still remaining respectful towards various traditional cultural values and such and culture in general to keep old knowledge from getting lost and to keep society stable)... besides giving (sufficiently societies slightly larger knowledge in regard to what classes are actually worthwhile (Tier 1 up to and including Tier 3 and other lower tier classes only as multiclass dips at best ... as well a some Tier 4 classes boosted up by taking Prestige Classes for those that simply aren't qualified enough or otherwise blessed with sufficient talent, actual magical/psionic capabilities and/or motivation but still need something to do as well as possibly some Tier 5 classes pimped out heavily with prestige classes ... ) for those that possess talent for it (and, if possible, also the right stats to actually utilize that class without it being to troublesome), is there some other reasonable way to somehow improve the setting in such a way that the number of commoners/mudanes (and such) goes down at least somewhat while still ensuring that pretty much all of societies needs are dealt with (it's not like, for example, Able Learner Human Skillmonkeys would have any trouble performing pretty much any task commoners could do, only much better) and the number of high end characters (i.e. powerful spellcasters and people capable of creating powerful items & devices ... as well those guys that can make good use of powerful magical equipment, I guess) by increasing the affinity with specific classes (i.e. ... better suited states, possibly some useable ancestry, ecetera) and/or sheer talent (which, in this case, is more or less refering to latent potential ... as in ... the actual capability to - somehow - actually be able to reach high class levels in specific classes) so that more people are actually able to come close to or to actually step into epic levels.
One of the most used fictional excuse to make societies more powerful/talented would seem like they're spreading magical bloodlines around to spread general magical talent among the population while also using tools like political marriage in hopes of creating even more talented magical (well, or psionic) family lines (though I guess that that would especially boost the likes of sorceres and such that are "naturally talented", as I don't think that things are that easy for the likes of wizards that might also suffer from other factors influencing their talent) and such ... there's also the need to employ advanced education systems to fooster and improve the talent of promising individuals, I guess, and academic organisations that actually help people to progress (although the elite ones would likely still only take note of promising future elites) in their advancement.
Has someone else some suggestion in regard what else could be done for such a society (lets assume it's mostly made up out of humans, elves and a few other species that are possibly compatible with those two above, including some other humanoid & monstrous humanoid species & halfbreeds) to improve it further in regard to what#s been mentioned above (though if possible ... no suggestions that end up turning things into some kind of dystopia ... sure, there might be some organisations eager to go beyond what's acceptable in their pursuit of knowledge and/or power, but ... society as a whole shouldn't exactly go down the slippery slope to much as long as the gods are watching)?
Another point of note ...
... what kind of orthodox and/or mainstream class builds would characters in such culturally advanced (compared to typical quasi-middle-age DnD Fantasy Worlds) societies select for their career?
For arcane & divine casters, lets assume that the talent of "naturally talented" casters like sorcerers and such (with spontaneous casters also being able to make use of the spell point system, i.e. ... they potentially have more uses of their high level spells at the expense of endurance) has been improved quite a bit and that characters with good lineage have good chances (and support) to actually reach at least level 14+ during their lifetime and, ultimately, might actually even tackle epic levels later on. As such, it would be a society that favours "naturally talented" casters quite a bit (though wizards and such still have their obvious advantages in that they actually have access to much more spells) due to them having an easier time in actually reaching high levels. Casters with more spell slots also have quite a bit of use when it comes to utility stuff, rituals and supporting epic spell rituals (like creating wards to protect from something for their slightly more mundane use).
For arcane casters, I already looked up plenty of builds (most of them, expect some like the ones from the Ultimate Magus Handbook),that seemed like they are sufficiently cutting edge & feasible and came to the conclusion that two of the most mainstream-like yet still orthodox builds for arcane casters might be based on Ultimate Magus PrC (with additional wizard casting quite something as far as outside of combat versatility is concerned) & Mage of the Arcane Order PrC (that provides its spellpool among other things as noteable outside of combat utility toolbox) with some dips in other PrCs (Incanatrix, Archmage, ecetera) and Casting-based base classes:
Standard (Ultimate) Magus builds ...
Beguiler 1/Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Beguiler 1/Wizard 1/Elf Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Beguiler 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 1/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Incantatrix 5
Wizard 1/Spontaneous Class 1/Human Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Wizard 1/Spontaneous Class 1/Elf Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/X 5
Wizard 2/Spontaneous Class 1/Wizard +2(4)/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 (or something else with significant entry requirments)
(Maybe some Wu Je Version might also make sense. Though I guess that most builds that include wizards are also reasonably compatible with Wu Je builds as plenty of those builds don't actually need scribe scroll or reach level 5 bonus feats)
Other likely (Ultimate) Magus standard builds ...
Wizard 2/Cloistered Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Ultimate Magus 7
Wizard 2/Druid 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Ultimate Magus 7
Illumian Beguiler 1/Wiz 3/Master Specialist 1/UM 10/Archmage 5
Bard 1/Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9
Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ Spellthief 1/ Unseen Seer 2/ Ultimate Magus 10 / X 3
Wizard 3 / Dread Necromancer 1 / Spellthief 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Archmage 5
Non-Standard (Ultimate) Magus standard builds ...
Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ultimate Magus 1/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus +9/Archmage 3
Wizard 3/Trickster Spellthief 1/Bard 1/Arcane Caster Dips 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9
Standard Mage of the Arcane Order Build ...
Sorcerer X/possible early dips into some prestige classes/Standard Mage of the Arcane Order Build 7/dips into other prestige classes
I guess straight wizard, wu je, sorcerer & druid builds as well as builds with small or major dips into the likes of Incanatrix (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers), Archmage (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers), Dweomerkeeper (for wizards, wu je & sorcerers with one Cloistered Cleric Dip), Planar Shepard (for Druids and such) as well as some other (although often less powerful or stylish) non-highly-setting specific prestige classes should do just fine.
Cleric and Archivist might face meet some serious rival in the Warmage with Rainbow Servant 10 (even more so once he has one Sacred Exorcist dip) but it's not like they become lose much of value that way ... though I wonder how their modern versions would look like ... as they fullfill their fluff roles and Undead & Evil Outsiders are still something troublesome to deal with and Clerics and Archivists are strong Tier 1 classes to begin with, they should have plenty of things to do but somehow no build that would particulary well fit into more modern settings (or well enough to become one of the mainstream builds) comes to mind.
What to do with the Ranger, though, to make him more compatible, though ... sure, Urban variations exist and they still serve some functions, but ... I'm not quite sure what their modern versions would actually look build wise?
Has someone else some suggestion in regard what builds might fit in or would like to point some things I might've overlooked?
Thanks in advance.