Supergirl: Tyler Hoechlin Superman is Best Superman

[Avilan the Grey]

So, I REALLY enjoyed the first episode of Season 2.
The slight rewrite of certain characters worked, Tyler Hoechlin is great as Superman (basically if they had pust this Superman in Man Of Steel DC would be equal to Marvel in the movie department now), and Kara herself is still growing as a person.

The introduction of Lena Luthor is interesting. I would love an actual twist where she continues to be a mostly good person.
Also,
Who is Metallo? Never heard of him.

[dropbear8mybaby]

This thread explains why **** TV is still made.

[Fawkes]

This thread explains why **** TV is still made.

Good contribution. This thread and by extension all of history has been enriched by your presence.

Avilan, I haven't seen the show, so I'm not sure if you're asking who is in comics history or who [spoilers] is in the context of the show, but, there are several (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36386/2168393-u5w8.jpg) answers (http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/act/act312.jpg) to (http://bluedevil.uatu.net/enemies/images/Metalloface.JPG) the (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Metallo.jpg) former (http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111253436/5313727-tumblr_md93xqmj071qcaee5o1_1280.jpg).

Edit: Just realized you actually made that clear and I'm dumb.

[SPOILER]There have been a handful of Metallos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallo). Metallo is a usually a cyborg powered by Kryptonite, and almost always an enemy of the Superman family.

[Avilan the Grey]

Good contribution. This thread and by extension all of history has been enriched by your presence.

Avilan, I haven't seen the show, so I'm not sure if you're asking who is in comics history or who [spoilers] is in the context of the show, but, there are several (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36386/2168393-u5w8.jpg) answers (http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/act/act312.jpg) to (http://bluedevil.uatu.net/enemies/images/Metalloface.JPG) the (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Metallo.jpg) former (http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111253436/5313727-tumblr_md93xqmj071qcaee5o1_1280.jpg).

Edit: Just realized you actually made that clear and I'm dumb.

[SPOILER]There have been a handful of Metallos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallo). Metallo is a usually a cyborg powered by Kryptonite, and almost always an enemy of the Superman family.

Thank you. I haven't actually read a Superman comic since the mid 80´s and was a spotty reader even before that.

In other news: ****ting over people's taste is always classy.

Now, I am openly admitting to be somewhat... boring in my tastes since I never could stand neither Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Orange Is The New Black nor several others "Must See" shows. Including Game Of Thrones. Yes, this show is right up my alley, and so is Lucifer which is my absolute favorite show at the moment.

[JadedDM]

I agree, Hoechlin did a great job. He is the Superman we need, not that angsty, dark and gritty crap Snyder keeps giving us.

Best line:
"That's it, we're moving back to Gotham!"

Any speculation on who the dude in the pod is?

[random11]

Oh my god, what's that on Superman's face? Can it be? A SMILE?!
Finally, a Superman like he should be.

I do have some problem with Superman's opinion over the kryptonite.
Dude, just last week we had two kryptonians trying to take over the world, and a week before that it took 10 seconds to mind control you, that's two arguments for keeping the kryptonite, and considering the options it was the best possible location for it to be kept.

Still, it's a minor issue and can easily be overlooked, especially since this can be used as an excuse why Superman does not appear more, and it IS after all Supergirl's show and she should be the one in focus.

What else? Cat Grant of course!
Aside from a small mistake last season, she is the best thing in this show. A good balance of powerful, emotional, motherly and slightly psychotic. I just love this character.

[Fawkes]

Thank you. I haven't actually read a Superman comic since the mid 80´s and was a spotty reader even before that.

TBH I don't read any Superman comics either. I just absorb useless pop culture trivia like a sponge.


Now, I am openly admitting to be somewhat... boring in my tastes since I never could stand neither Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Orange Is The New Black nor several others "Must See" shows. Including Game Of Thrones. Yes, this show is right up my alley, and so is Lucifer which is my absolute favorite show at the moment.

Oh well then never mind, you ARE all that is wrong with TV viewing audiences. :smalltongue:

[Anonymouswizard]

Dammit internet, stop making me want to watch shows once the second series has started. I need to go and catch up on this show now.


Now, I am openly admitting to be somewhat... boring in my tastes since I never could stand neither Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Orange Is The New Black nor several others "Must See" shows. Including Game Of Thrones. Yes, this show is right up my alley, and so is Lucifer which is my absolute favorite show at the moment.

Eh, I'll come in and say that I also have somewhat... nonstandard tastes in TV. While I have enjoyed the A Song of Ice and Fire books I just could not enjoy Game of Thrones (maybe because I imagined the books as having a much.. brighter? colour palate), and the other show's you've mentioned I just did not enjoy at all. Although I plan to watch Lucifer once I've finished Constantine (why did such a good show get cancelled?)

[Avilan the Grey]

The one thing I find silly is his reasoning for not working with the gov.
But then maybe it's because he's immortal, usually. I kind of imagine a "Dragonborn / Anduin" moment here somewhere.

Yes, the government has weaponized Kryptonite to be able to handle threats like you.
Sucks to be you... Oh wait. I can be shot by anyone, and die. You're still special.

[LoP]

I didn't follow the first season beyond the first couple of episodes because the CBS-style corniness (and some of the generally hamfisted writing) was just a bit too much for me to not roll my eyes at. Now that its at CW levels of corniness and hamfisted writing, I'm ok with it :smallcool:.

And yes, this depiction of Superman/Clark Kent is actually pretty damn good so far. I wasn't sure about this Tyler Hoechlin guy before, based on the really poorly composed/photoshopped teaser images (and I don't know what else he's done), but it turns out I really like him!

I knew enough of what the Supergirl series had going to not be lost, but do I need to rewatch anything in season 1 to be really caught up for season 2?

For example

So J'onn J'onnz/Martian Manhunter is also masquerading as Hank Henshaw? Was there any hint of Cyborg Superman running around ever?

Winn... is this Toyman?? Why is Toyman buddy buddy with everyone? Is this like how Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost is buddy buddy with Team Flash for now?

Who is the female doctor/villain person at the end of the episode, turning Corben into Metallo?

[JadedDM]

So J'onn J'onnz/Martian Manhunter is also masquerading as Hank Henshaw? Was there any hint of Cyborg Superman running around ever?

Winn... is this Toyman?? Why is Toyman buddy buddy with everyone? Is this like how Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost is buddy buddy with Team Flash for now?

Who is the female doctor/villain person at the end of the episode, turning Corben into Metallo?


1. No, I think it was meant as a red herring. They introduce Hank Henshaw, his eyes glow red now and again, people speculate he was or was going to turn into Cyborg Superman, but it turned out he was actually Martian Manhunter.

2. Winn is the Toyman's son, who is in prison.

3. No idea, she's never been shown before.

[Fawkes]

And yes, this depiction of Superman/Clark Kent is actually pretty damn good so far. I wasn't sure about this Tyler Hoechlin guy before, based on the really poorly composed/photoshopped teaser images (and I don't know what else he's done), but it turns out I really like him!

He was one of the teen wolves in the Teen Wolf tv show.

He was also the kid in Road to Perdition!

[Friv]

I knew enough of what the Supergirl series had going to not be lost, but do I need to rewatch anything in season 1 to be really caught up for season 2?

I suspect they'll cover smaller details. Most of the big stuff in Season One was resolved in Season One. A few things that aren't resolved:

(a) Maxwell Lord is still running around, and working with the government. In this version, he's sort of what Lex Luthor thinks of himself as; an incredible super-genius, not necessarily cruel but very quick to consider small groups of people acceptable casualties for his plans, who wants to help humanity as a whole but is pretty dismissive of most people's intentions and capabilities, and who distrusts superhumans instinctively because you never know if they'll turn on you. He has both worked with the main characters in the past, including helping them save the world at the end of Season One, and has also gotten a few people killed trying to get information about or leverage on Supergirl.

(b) There is a planet full of White Martians who are shapeshifters, nearly as strong as kryptonians, and might have some telepathy. They may invade at some point, having genocided the Green Martians already.

(c) An alien prison crashed on Earth several years back, which is why Supergirl is younger than Superman now despite having been older than him before; she got stuck in the Phantom Zone and dragged the prison out with her. Most of the prisoners have been either captured, killed, or are free but being watched by the DEO, but others might be around.

JadedDM covered the super-short version of your questions, but the slightly longer version:



So J'onn J'onnz/Martian Manhunter is also masquerading as Hank Henshaw? Was there any hint of Cyborg Superman running around ever?

In this storyline, Hank Henshaw tried to kill the Martian Manhunter, but died in the process. On the other hand, he was supposed to have died in the same fight that killed Alex's dad, and Alex's dad is now believed to be alive and a Cadmus experiment, so the real Hank Henshaw could conceivably also be alive in Cadmus.


Winn... is this Toyman?? Why is Toyman buddy buddy with everyone? Is this like how Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost is buddy buddy with Team Flash for now?

As covered, this Winn is the son of the original Toyman, and there was an episode last season about his dad trying to make him be a supervillain and failing.


Who is the female doctor/villain person at the end of the episode, turning Corben into Metallo?

She works for Cadmus, which is still a secret government black ops program doing illegal research into superhumans and which was briefly introduced last season, but she's a new character.

[random11]

The positive:

I loved the episode.
The interaction between Superman and Supergirl feels natural and fun both for them and for the viewers.
They cooperate as a team without forced rivalry, and when it's time to part ways it's simply because they both have their home.

The nit-pickery:

- Enemy targets their kryptonite beam directly on the tiny shield on their chest.

- They split the supers like it's some great plan. Don't they know they can both fly from city to city in seconds?
Instead of the plan they went for, the supers could just beat one of the metalos, fly to the second location and beat the other. There was no real rush to defeat them at the same exact second.

- It's time for phase two! (exactly like phase one, but with a different target)

The negative:

The only real thing that bothered me in this episode is the same thing from last time, the way superman rejects the martian holding kryptonite.
This time, the writers forced the "stolen kryptonite" story just to prove that he is right, but really, the martian had a good point of holding the kryptonite, and I don't see why superman sees it as a lack of trust.
After all, he just proved that he can't be in two places at the same time, the previous season proved he is not the last kryptonian (supported by the one in their holding cell right now!), and the previous season also shows that superman can be mind-controlled.
In fact, the cooperation between supergirl and the human agency just proves they might need kryptonian based weapons.

[Ping Pong Along]

I'm assuming this is the Supergirl discussion thread?


This was a fun episode. I really hope they get Superman to interact with more heroes in the Arrowverse down the line. Snapper Carr was awesome. I'd just started to come around to Cat Grant, but I already really like Carr's reality check gruffness.

I would have liked to have seen a little more effort put into the design for Metallo. I'm also confused why they didn't just have the Kryptonians sit the fights out. Martian Manhunter should be able to handle one by himself. They haven't really established his power level though, so maybe he can't.

[Avilan the Grey]

I enjoyed this episode but yes it was a little annoying how they targeted those tiny little shields the whole time.

[Friv]

I'm just going to choose to believe that those tiny shields somehow draw Kryptonite beams to them like magnets.

As for the episode as a whole, I'm going to repost what I discussed on another forum, because it sums it up pretty well for me.

Superman is great, Supergirl is great, I'm going to miss Cat but she's going out nicely and Snapper is shaping up to be decently fun. I also like Metallo, and it's a shame he's been taken out this quickly (although I suppose it was inevitable.) Winn is settling in to his new job and figuring out how far he can push, and that's going well. Alex feeling hurt and lost was a pretty good subplot, and they sold her and Kara's fight as a reasonable thing. I even bought the argument between Superman and J'onn this episode, which I didn't as much last time.

Cadmus is stupid and I hate them.

"Oh, let's grab my complaining assistant to Metallo-up instead of, say, a highly skilled guard or soldier like Corbin was. I'm sure I didn't have a key assistant for any actual important skills, and I can always recruit another one. And no worries, he'll be totally loyal afterward because REASONS.

Also I'm going to shoot my loyal mole, but then have a long conversation with the woman who hates me, and then walk away instead of shooting her even though I already shot someone in this room so it won't make a difference, and my goons will walk towards her instead of shooting her to make sure she can fight them off, and then the goons will just vanish mysteriously after Alex and Supergirl beat them up, rather than being brought in for questioning. Perfect!

And also we'll announce a terrorist attack against the Kryptonians, guaranteeing that everyone in the country hates us because they already love Superman and Supergirl, and then we'll attack civilian targets in whatever city there is no Kryptonian in, to make sure that we don't even have a fig leaf of respectability, and hey, remember when we were a government department? Me neither.

And once we've divided the Kryptonians, we'll definitely assume that Supergirl won't have the support of that agency that's been supporting her for all of last year, or that other alien that has come to her aid multiple times. And we definitely won't send both of our super-Metallos after one Kryptonian, and then go after the other one, because they'll be fine. And, for that matter, we won't send our super-Metallos after one Kryptonian to begin with, because waiting a whole three days to see if Superman goes home seems like a lot of work and we'd rather give away all our secrets right up front."

Bleh.

[The New Bruceski]

I really hope they find an excuse to put Tyler Hoechlin, Dean Cain and Brandon Routh in the same room at some point.

[Hopeless]

So if rumours are true you don't mean The Atom from Legends teams up with Superman from Super Girl's universe to battle or ally with the Cyborg Superman?:smallwink:

[Ping Pong Along]

I really hope they find an excuse to put Tyler Hoechlin, Dean Cain and Brandon Routh in the same room at some point.

That'd be so cool!

As for Cadmus, while certainly not the most impressive of villains, I'm enjoying them so far way more than the villains from season 1, with the exception of Maxwell Lord. I hope to see him come back in a big way this season.

[Lacuna Caster]

Now, I am openly admitting to be somewhat... boring in my tastes since I never could stand neither Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Orange Is The New Black nor several others "Must See" shows. Including Game Of Thrones. Yes, this show is right up my alley, and so is Lucifer which is my absolute favorite show at the moment.
Oh, hey- I just remembered you recommended that pre-nu-52 power-girl collection, and then I went and bought it! I... didn't like it very much though, so... are there any "must-see" comic runs that you absolutely couldn't stand?

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh, hey- I just remembered you recommended that pre-nu-52 power-girl collection, and then I went and bought it! I... didn't like it very much though, so... are there any "must-see" comic runs that you absolutely couldn't stand?

Well there's a lot of Batmans, including The Killing Joke and TDKR. But that has more to do with me not really liking Bats or his villain gallery in general. I am one of the few people I know who thinks Year One is the best Bats story ever written and completely disregard TDKR as overhyped tripe...

[Lacuna Caster]

Well there's a lot of Batmans, including The Killing Joke and TDKR. But that has more to do with me not really liking Bats or his villain gallery in general. I am one of the few people I know who thinks Year One is the best Bats story ever written and completely disregard TDKR as overhyped tripe...
I enjoyed Year One, and I'd agree that Killing Joke is hugely overrated. Still a major TDKR fan, though. :P

Anyways, on the topic of Supergirl- I initially heard vaguely discouraging things (http://neodusk.deviantart.com/art/Fandumb-58-SuperGIRL-534398815) about the show's general execution, but I caught one or two episodes lately and they weren't eye-rollingly bad. It's always nice to see more of Manhunter.

Does it stack up okay next to the other DC TV series? (Never saw much of Arrow, but I kind of enjoyed The Flash if I time-skipped (how appropriate!) through the tearful soul-searching monologues inserted in every episode. I am a heartless cad.)

I'm still baffled as to how these shows are on-air and we can't get more Young Justice, though.

[Friv]

My pocket review: Yes, Supergirl is about at the level of the Flash in terms of quality and fun. They have different qualities of moping; Flash tends towards more soap opera stuff, while Supergirl prefers uncertainty about life and family troubles. But overall, they work on about the same level of "generally goofy and fun, occasionally brings feels, also sometimes fails to bring feels, decent FX and fun action scenes".

Of the other two DC shows, Legends of Tomorrow is significantly better on the "goofy and fun" axis and significantly worse on the "makes even the slightest bit of sense and has competent heroes" axis, and Arrow is like Flash with the "fun" and "moping" dials reversed, so that it's a lot of soap opera drama with a little bit of goofy fun.

It is also worth noting that the comic you linked to is a pretty good summary of Supergirl's first few episodes. The pilot was very bad, and the next two episodes are only so-so. It took until about Episodes 4-5 for the series to hit its stride.

[Lacuna Caster]

Cheers. I'll bear it in mind. Based on what little I saw, I do find the 'gubment-agent-in-training' angle interesting, since Superman's post-war apolitical detachment always struck me as weirdly out of place. I'd have to see where it goes, though.

[Lacuna Caster]

Ayy! By a stroke of luck I caught this episode while randomly channel-surfing. It's pretty good. Avilan is correct about Tyler Hoechlin.

Though I see Callista isn't doing her Devil Wears Prada routine anymore. Shame.

[Quild]

I don't watch Supergirl but I'm surprised that someone who has no clue of who Metallo is, can give any opinion on which Superman is the best. Maybe an opinion of which one you liked the most between the ones you've seen, but that's all.

This is why everything that is based on pre-existing work does not respect this work. This is why Nolan's man dressed like a bat(*) exists :smallfurious:


Now, I am openly admitting to be somewhat... boring in my tastes since I never could stand neither Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Orange Is The New Black nor several others "Must See" shows. Including Game Of Thrones. Yes, this show is right up my alley, and so is Lucifer which is my absolute favorite show at the moment.
Ewww.


(*)during like on tenth of the movies duration.

[Ping Pong Along]

I don't watch Supergirl but I'm surprised that someone who has no clue of who Metallo is, can give any opinion on which Superman is the best. Maybe an opinion of which one you liked the most between the ones you've seen, but that's all.

This is why everything that is based on pre-existing work does not respect this work. This is why Nolan's man dressed like a bat(*) exists :smallfurious:

It's not like Metallo has entered the mainstream in the way that Lex Luthor or General Zod have. There's also a level of hypocrisy for judging someone's taste in something that you haven't watched.

Now onto the episode itself!
This was the first episode of the season without either Superman or Cat Grant. I hadn't realized the degree to which I was enjoying Superman until he was gone. For the time being though, I think it is important to keep his appearances to a minimum since this is a Supergirl show. Leaving the audience wanting more is a generally a good thing too.

Lynda Carter makes her debut as the president. I found I preferred the idea of this casting more than the actual character. I'll admit I haven't seen anything more than clips from her show. Apologies to any of her fans, but I didn't really care for her character. She seemed like nothing but a talking head, which can work by the way, but the way Supergirl reacted to her went against this.

As a side note, I'd love it if they introduced the Wonder Woman character into this show. I don't know if they are able to or if they want to, but that'd be such a fun team up that would play out so much differently than how she interacts with Supes.

Back to the episode, we were introduced to Maggie Sawyer. Her way of getting things done through contacts and relationship with the alien community made for an interesting contrast from the DEO's, which is mostly based off of computer research. The alien dive bar was an absolute highlight of the episode for me. It helped to build up that there's an underground culture that we as the audience haven't been privy to.

The themes of prejudice were a bit on the nose. I read an interesting review though that helped me appreciate some of the things I overlooked. J'onn is an alien that is for registration, while Maggie is a human that is for it. We have one character that has essentially denied himself a community to which he would belong while the other has integrated herself into the community despite not quite belonging. There's some cool stuff here, especially by the end when J'onn decides to give it a shot.

I thought it was interesting seeing Alex and Maggie interact. Up until this point, I don't believe we've seen Alex romantic with anyone. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

I really like the reality check that Snapper Carr brings to Kara. If she were an amazing journalist right from the start, she'd feel extremely bland. It's also nice to see her up against someone that is making her better, even if it pisses her off. I think we've all had people in our lives like that. Jimmy had a much needed "I'm the boss now" plot that was fine, but I felt like I'd seen it so many times before.

There were a couple things I didn't really care for. The whole Daxamite prejudice that Kara had wasn't great. In fact, it felt like a missed opportunity. Racism isn't nearly as binary as this episode seems to think. By the end of the episode, it's all resolved too. It's just too clean. Another thing I disliked was Alex's interrogation of the one alien in the dive bar. I thought that was in rather poor taste. Is that all she knows? She's just opened her eyes to how much can be accomplished by warming up to this community and now she's trying to strangle someone with seat IN THE BAR. Go outside. Try another tactic first. Something. What if that guy had some super powered friends? How much danger would she be in?

It was great seeing Miss Martian. She wasn't really given much of a personality in the episode, but considering she had all of five seconds of screen time, I'll wait to see if this develops.

So yeah, this episode probably wasn't as good as the first two, but it opened a lot of doors for future stories. It was also nice to step aside from Cadmus for an episode to flesh out the world.

[Quild]

It's not like Metallo has entered the mainstream in the way that Lex Luthor or General Zod have.
Oh. So if people only know the mainstream part of something, they're perfectly qualified to express judgements on the very best that this "something" has?

You're a Pokemon Y player? Well, what do you think if I say that I've only seen a few pokemon episodes but think that Pikachu is the best Pokemon?


There's also a level of hypocrisy for judging someone's taste in something that you haven't watched.
About Superman, I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I'm saying that he doesn't have enough knowledge on Superman at all to say which Superman is the best.

I'm myself a big fan of Batman and his universe, but I'm still aware that there is a lot of stuff I haven't read or seen about Batman (including almost everything before The Animated Series) and I wouldn't dare to judge which X is the better Y while I haven't seen/read everything.

I can however say that I know about Batman. And even if I'm totally fond of the following quote from an episode of the Brave and the Bold, I feel like you can't tag anything as "Batman" or here "Superman" and say it's representative of characters existing since almost 80 years.

Bat-Mite: Yes, you've got a question?

Fanboy: I always felt Batman was best suited to the role of gritty urban crime detective, but now you guys have got him up against Santas, and Easter bunnies? I'm sorry, but that's not my Batman!

[the crew talk among themselves regarding the question and hand Bat-Mite a note]

Sam Register: Here, read this!

Bat-Mite: "Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but is certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots as the tortured avenger, crying out for mommy and daddy." And besides, those Easter bunnies looked really scary, right?

[the audience all starts to agree, as the camera pans to Paul Dini and Bruce Timm in the audience]

Bruce W. Timm: Meh.

Also, I watch Lucifer and most of the shows he quoted, so I can judge his tastes on this.

I rest my case :)

[Ping Pong Along]

Oh. So if people only know the mainstream part of something, they're perfectly qualified to express judgements on the very best that this "something" has?

Superman is a character that goes beyond niche. When people think of a superhero, there's a good chance that who they're thinking of is Superman. He is a character that is often alluded to or referenced. The amount of adaptations of the character, from live action, animation, even radio drama has cemented this character into the minds of most Americans (I can't speak for the rest of the world), even if they haven't seen a single straight up adaptation. There's a certain idea of what Superman is. Seeing a version that closely fits that idea is valid.


You're a Pokemon Y player? Well, what do you think if I say that I've only seen a few pokemon episodes but think that Pikachu is the best Pokemon?

I don't see the problem with this. It could be someone's first interaction with the franchise. A lot of people start out liking Pikachu and then develop stronger attachments to other Pokemon down the road. Opinions change drastically with time and experience.


About Superman, I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I'm saying that he doesn't have enough knowledge on Superman at all to say which Superman is the best.

I'm myself a big fan of Batman and his universe, but I'm still aware that there is a lot of stuff I haven't read or seen about Batman (including almost everything before The Animated Series) and I wouldn't dare to judge which X is the better Y while I haven't seen/read everything.

I can however say that I know about Batman. And even if I'm totally fond of the following quote from an episode of the Brave and the Bold, I feel like you can't tag anything as "Batman" or here "Superman" and say it's representative of characters existing since almost 80 years.

There's also the idea of judging something in a vacuum. Does this character work for this show or movie? Even if it isn't true to the source material or doesn't capture the feel of it, does it work for the style or tone that the creators are trying to accomplish? Arrow is a show that I enjoy, that sticks to a lot of the mythos, but also often deviates, from the source material. While it captures a lot of the facts of the character, it deviates pretty strongly from the tone of the character. And yet I enjoy it for what it is. It's the same with the Dark Knight trilogy. The director had a vision for the character that isn't what I would have done, but I enjoyed and appreciated it.

[Lacuna Caster]

[the audience all starts to agree, as the camera pans to Paul Dini and Bruce Timm in the audience]

Bruce W. Timm: Meh.
I remember that scene, but I didn't recognise Timm and Dini. That's hilarious.

I'm crazy about the very earliest Superman stories myself, though I consider most subsequent versions to be kind of watered down. I don't think the smiley jocular Superman actually makes all that much sense if his world even slightly resembles ours, but Hoechlin certainly does a very good rendition.

[JadedDM]

Did the alien dive bar kind of remind anyone else of Lorne's demon bar from Angel? I half expected a scene of some aliens playing poker with kittens. :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't watch Supergirl but I'm surprised that someone who has no clue of who Metallo is, can give any opinion on which Superman is the best. Maybe an opinion of which one you liked the most between the ones you've seen, but that's all.

This is why everything that is based on pre-existing work does not respect this work. This is why Nolan's man dressed like a bat(*) exists :smallfurious:


Ewww.


(*)during like on tenth of the movies duration.

God I would pay with a leg if they erased the 90's from comic book history...
Anyway, Eww right back to you.

[The New Bruceski]

You're a Pokemon Y player? Well, what do you think if I say that I've only seen a few pokemon episodes but think that Pikachu is the best Pokemon?


I'd think "okay, why are you trying to start a fight about it?"

[Fawkes]

You're a Pokemon Y player? Well, what do you think if I say that I've only seen a few pokemon episodes but think that Pikachu is the best Pokemon?

Well, we all know there are plenty of better Pokemon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRCd6HJti4Q).

[Avilan the Grey]

Besides, what really is there except the "Mainstream" superman? Not counting what-ifs like Red Son... that gives us:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--yLM3qGQi--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/17njgpyq71f5zjpg.jpg

http://geekleagueofamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/supercable.jpg

http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/superman-at-earths-end-gun.jpg


Yes, all of these are from a certain Decade we should not mention, since the writing staff at DC and Marvel got replaced by brain slugs from Futurama at the time.

http://f.tqn.com/y/superman/1/S/5/4/-/-/Superman_Red_Blue_001.jpg

[random11]

This was the first episode of the season without either Superman or Cat Grant. I hadn't realized the degree to which I was enjoying Superman until he was gone. For the time being though, I think it is important to keep his appearances to a minimum since this is a Supergirl show. Leaving the audience wanting more is a generally a good thing too.


I agree about Superman, it's good to have him but he can't appear too much because it's Supergirl's show.
What I don't understand is why Cat left.

She didn't take the focus away, in fact, she filled an important role that cannot be replaced by a different boss.
Jimmy as the replacement seems rushed both in story-telling perspective and from common sense since he had no experience as a manager before that.

Is the actress going to a different show/movie? Did she ask for too much money? That's the only real reasons I can think about as for why it was done this way.


Lynda Carter makes her debut as the president. I found I preferred the idea of this casting more than the actual character. I'll admit I haven't seen anything more than clips from her show. Apologies to any of her fans, but I didn't really care for her character. She seemed like nothing but a talking head, which can work by the way, but the way Supergirl reacted to her went against this.


The only thing I remember about this character is the "too good to be true" alarm bells that rang during the episode.



The themes of prejudice were a bit on the nose. I read an interesting review though that helped me appreciate some of the things I overlooked. J'onn is an alien that is for registration, while Maggie is a human that is for it. We have one character that has essentially denied himself a community to which he would belong while the other has integrated herself into the community despite not quite belonging. There's some cool stuff here, especially by the end when J'onn decides to give it a shot.


Another show with the "registration" story. I hope that won't be the focus of this season since like any other show with the same message it suffers from the same flaw: It's not a good analogy to race/gender/religion/sexual preference if any alien we met so far can shoot lasers out of his eyes, invade minds or resistant to human weapons.


BTW, where did all the aliens came from?
Until now, it made sense since the majority of them came from the same prison ship, which also explained why they were hostile.
Is earth a popular tourist attraction? Come on, even "Man in Black" explained things better...


Another thing I disliked was Alex's interrogation of the one alien in the dive bar. I thought that was in rather poor taste. Is that all she knows? She's just opened her eyes to how much can be accomplished by warming up to this community and now she's trying to strangle someone with seat IN THE BAR. Go outside. Try another tactic first. Something. What if that guy had some super powered friends? How much danger would she be in?


I agree.
And to make things worse he asked for money, so the other option was right there on the table.

[Friv]

I agree about Superman, it's good to have him but he can't appear too much because it's Supergirl's show.
What I don't understand is why Cat left.

She didn't take the focus away, in fact, she filled an important role that cannot be replaced by a different boss.
Jimmy as the replacement seems rushed both in story-telling perspective and from common sense since he had no experience as a manager before that.

Is the actress going to a different show/movie? Did she ask for too much money? That's the only real reasons I can think about as for why it was done this way.

Unfortunately, it's that the actress didn't want to move. Callista Flockhart lives in Los Angeles, and is at a point in her life where she wants to stay there. When Supergirl got moved to the CW, it also got moved to Vancouver, and that means that Callista Flockhart can't commit to a full-season schedule. She's still willing to fly up for the occasional episode, but they can't use her all the time any more.

It is the one real casualty of the network change, because she was amazing in her role.

[Ping Pong Along]

Yeah, what Friv said. Something that I don't believe has been confirmed is how many episodes she will actually be in. I think they could have softened the blow a bit better, because random11 said, it did feel jarring. If I were working on the show, I'd have dedicated more of last week's episode to this. There's a cool story they could have told about losing a mentor figure. It's kind of like losing your favorite teacher at the end of the school year. Sure that relationship isn't truly gone, but it's not quite the same as when you interacted with this person every day.

As for what random11 was saying about another show doing a registration plot, I think a lot of that is a sign of the times. It's weapon registration and prejudice wrapped into one and is something that would absolutely happen in the real world given the circumstances of these comic book worlds.

[Lacuna Caster]

Besides, what really is there except the "Mainstream" superman? Not counting what-ifs like Red Son... that gives us:
There's the original original superman, which actually used crushing physical force to directly impose what he perceives as progressive social policies (without formally appointing himself god-emperor.) Which is kind of hilariously naive, and he sort of comes across as a thug and a bozo at times, but there's an endearing 'doing his best' quality to it, and a great deal of humour, and he's not ignoring 99% of what goes on across the planet.

[Fawkes]

There's the original original superman, which actually used crushing physical force to directly impose what he perceives as progressive social policies (without formally appointing himself god-emperor.) Which is kind of hilariously naive, and he sort of comes across as a thug and a bozo at times, but there's an endearing 'doing his best' quality to it, and a great deal of humour, and he's not ignoring 99% of what goes on across the planet.

See also Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, wherein Superman personally disarms the world's entire nuclear array without permission.

[ryuplaneswalker]

This Episode were totally THE MOST SUBTLE THING EVER, they totally weren't preachy.

[Avilan the Grey]

This Episode were totally THE MOST SUBTLE THING EVER, they totally weren't preachy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped

[The New Bruceski]

I think any claims of subtlety could be discarded with "and I say that not just as a martian, but as someone who's been masquerading as a black man."

[Lacuna Caster]

See also Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, wherein Superman personally disarms the world's entire nuclear array without permission.
Uh... how badly do I need to watch this movie? I'd say it appears to be terrible (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNqbqcV4dU), but for reasons largely independent of the opening premise.

[ryuplaneswalker]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped

If that anvil gets dropped any more it is going to break through the floor of Bowser's Castle, We did not need an hour of a thinly veiled preaching about political views. No lets not focus on the secret organization making Kryptonite Powered Robots, who has agents infiltrating into the SUPER DUPER SECRET DEO because that is interesting, instead lets forget that to and somehow manage to make "XENOPHOBIA BAD" more dull and boring than The Inhuman's plot line in Agents of Shield is.

[Ping Pong Along]

If that anvil gets dropped any more it is going to break through the floor of Bowser's Castle, We did not need an hour of a thinly veiled preaching about political views. No lets not focus on the secret organization making Kryptonite Powered Robots, who has agents infiltrating into the SUPER DUPER SECRET DEO because that is interesting, instead lets forget that to and somehow manage to make "XENOPHOBIA BAD" more dull and boring than The Inhuman's plot line in Agents of Shield is.

There's 22 episodes in this season. I think we can stand to have a couple not focus on Cadmus.

I understand how you feel. I remember as a kid when I stopped watching Captain Planet because it was too preachy. Xenophobia and racism are pretty important topics to discuss currently. Discrimination hasn't been stamped out and people are literally dying because of it. I agree the episode could have been done in a more interesting way that explored more of the complexities of the issue, but I don't fault them for bringing it up.

[lord_khaine]

I understand how you feel. I remember as a kid when I stopped watching Captain Planet because it was too preachy. Xenophobia and racism are pretty important topics to discuss currently. Discrimination hasn't been stamped out and people are literally dying because of it. I agree the episode could have been done in a more interesting way that explored more of the complexities of the issue, but I don't fault them for bringing it up.

The problem is of course that Xenophobia is a survival trait thats deeply ingrained in the human mind. Its going to take an insane amount of stomping to even get partly rid of it.

[random11]

- Oh look, an alien fight club.
<Irony>It was so original and unexpected!</Irony>


- It raises the question, with all the alien races and planets known to krypton (which included an Utopian culture), why was Superman sent to earth?


- Am I the only one who remembered the quote from "The Incredibles" about why costumes should never include a cape?


- Is there anyone who DIDN'T predict the twist at the end from the beginning of the episode?

[Avilan the Grey]

- Oh look, an alien fight club.
<Irony>It was so original and unexpected!</Irony>


- It raises the question, with all the alien races and planets known to krypton (which included an Utopian culture), why was Superman sent to earth?

Ask DC. It's not like the comics aren't filled with galaxies of super-advanced cultures.

[random11]

Ask DC. It's not like the comics aren't filled with galaxies of super-advanced cultures.

I don't have a problem with multiple alien planets, I have a problem with the Kryptons being fully aware of them.

[Dienekes]

God I would pay with a leg if they erased the 90's from comic book history...
Anyway, Eww right back to you.

You just erased the majority of Sandman and Lucifet two of the greatest comics of all time.


Besides, what really is there except the "Mainstream" superman? Not counting what-ifs like Red Son... that gives us:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--yLM3qGQi--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/17njgpyq71f5zjpg.jpg

http://geekleagueofamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/supercable.jpg

http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/superman-at-earths-end-gun.jpg


Yes, all of these are from a certain Decade we should not mention, since the writing staff at DC and Marvel got replaced by brain slugs from Futurama at the time.

http://f.tqn.com/y/superman/1/S/5/4/-/-/Superman_Red_Blue_001.jpg

Just for the record you know a couple of those pictures are from what-ifs right? The gun toting old Superman is very specifically a non canon what if.

[Zmeoaice]

-Is there anyone who DIDN'T predict the twist at the end from the beginning of the episode?

If you don't follow the comics or haven't seen Young Justice I suppose.

[Ping Pong Along]

This last episode was really fun.

Things have been moving at a nice pace with Alex's plot line. I think this has been done really well, when it could have easily felt fake. I also like seeing Alex in a different position than she had been before. Good stuff.

The comedy between Kara and Mon-El was great. I'm sure they'll go romantic with them, but I prefer it as more of an almost sibling thing. This was also the first time that Mon-El really got to be a character in his own right. Up until this point, he just had really simple motivations that related to the circumstances. It was also nice seeing the workplace revisited in a larger capacity than we have been this season.

They really rushed Jimmy's story. Maybe if this had been building for awhile? Then again, this was the first time Jimmy had gotten a good amount of screen time this season, so maybe the show is having trouble juggling all of its characters? With that said, the interaction between him and Winn were really solid. Almost enough to make you forgive how sudden all of this is. I do question how good Jimmy is as the new acting boss if he's moonlighting now. Arrow did that kind of thing too, but it usually showed that Oliver really couldn't juggle the two.

We finally got some answers about Cadmus. Not many, but one really big one. I'm not sure I care for head Cadmus lady, but that might change with some character development. I was hoping the weapons had to do with Intergang, but no such luck.

[random11]

This last episode was really fun.

Things have been moving at a nice pace with Alex's plot line. I think this has been done really well, when it could have easily felt fake. I also like seeing Alex in a different position than she had been before. Good stuff.

The comedy between Kara and Mon-El was great. I'm sure they'll go romantic with them, but I prefer it as more of an almost sibling thing. This was also the first time that Mon-El really got to be a character in his own right. Up until this point, he just had really simple motivations that related to the circumstances. It was also nice seeing the workplace revisited in a larger capacity than we have been this season.

They really rushed Jimmy's story. Maybe if this had been building for awhile? Then again, this was the first time Jimmy had gotten a good amount of screen time this season, so maybe the show is having trouble juggling all of its characters? With that said, the interaction between him and Winn were really solid. Almost enough to make you forgive how sudden all of this is. I do question how good Jimmy is as the new acting boss if he's moonlighting now. Arrow did that kind of thing too, but it usually showed that Oliver really couldn't juggle the two.

We finally got some answers about Cadmus. Not many, but one really big one. I'm not sure I care for head Cadmus lady, but that might change with some character development. I was hoping the weapons had to do with Intergang, but no such luck.

I don't know, I think the episode had too many problems to be enjoyable.

- Kara's deduction that Cadmus is responsible to the super-weapon attack is considered to be some sort of great deduction skill.
I was confused, since in this type of action I thought Cadmus practically yelled that they are the ones that gave the weapons.
Besides, their main point was not to accept aliens, instead kill them and loot their weapons, and as a proof, they show what happens when HUMANS get hold of alien technology?

- Mon-El's story was a twist on the "fish out of water" scenario. While it was funny, it raised the obvious question of "what did you THINK was going to happen?"
The guy just landed and woke up on an alien planet, and before any training you send him to work in an office?
I don't expect them to keep him imprisoned, but basic escort for the first few months sounds like a basic idea, too basic to enjoy the wacky things that happen without it.

- James.........
Every superhero so far either had a very strong motivation to be a vigilante, or had abilities long before he got a real job.
Jimmy's motivation is basically envy in superheroes he works for, and the trigger is the loss of the camera.
I think we have so many vigilante and superhero shows, that we forget that fighting crimes in a mask in parallel to the official agencies is supposed to be the exception and not the rule!

If he really wanted to help without breaking the law, his path would have been to join the DEO, and after months (or years) of training, help like everyone else does.
So I'm supposed to respect him not only for going rogue while he KNOWS there is an agency that takes care of these things, but also for getting his friend in trouble for this?!

[Ping Pong Along]

All of your criticisms are valid because this episode was definitely flawed. The things that worked were enough that I didn't dwell on what didn't. It was a fun time with the characters, focusing on some aspects that had been put on the back burner this season.

[Pronounceable]

After the trainwreck of pilot and next episode, I'd given up on this. After hearing it's better now and upon seeing even Arrow seems okay, I gave the second season a shot.

It's a lot of stupid. And it's the bad stupid, like LoT s1. But the only thing I expected was for lead actress to be cute as all ****, and she's probably holding the world record on that so I wasn't disappointed. They seem to be drinking the same coolaid as LoT s2 however, so the terrible stupidity isn't enough to ruin the awe and some characters. Their Supes was pretty cool, Luthor is good, Martian is good, the sister is unexpectedly good at acting, Superfrat is neat, notCisco is much less terrible than he was, notMontoya works so far and notJameson is perfect. Everyone's good so the show can actually hold.

Except Jimmy. Jimmy friggin sucks. Jimmy is a massive warning bell tolling for thee, proclaiming he's Laurel or Iris or Lincoln (alternatingly pointless and douchey love interest). He's gonna drag the whole thing down, I just know it, these shows have a rap sheet.

[The New Bruceski]

You think Laurel is the useless love interest? She became a superhero, all Felicity does is cry, keep secrets, and complain about other people keeping secrets.

[Dienekes]

You think Laurel is the useless love interest? She became a superhero, all Felicity does is cry, keep secrets, and complain about other people keeping secrets.

It's been awhile since I watched the show. But wasn't there a season where all Laurel did was get drunk, complain, and make everyone elses lives worse?

[The New Bruceski]

It's been awhile since I watched the show. But wasn't there a season where all Laurel did was get drunk, complain, and make everyone elses lives worse?

Yeah, then she sobered up and became awesome instead.

[Friv]

It's been awhile since I watched the show. But wasn't there a season where all Laurel did was get drunk, complain, and make everyone elses lives worse?

The general rule in Arrow is that whoever is currently dating Oliver just becomes totally, wildly useless for a whole season, and then whenever they break up she gets awesome again.

To be fair, this is a rule that only has two examples. But it's a pretty strong guideline.

[Pronounceable]

^^^ I (apparently very wisely) skipped seasons 3 and 4 of Arrow. So Laurel is just a random character they didn't know what to with but was then killed offscreen far as I'm concerned.


As for latest episode, I was being dumb looking around online to see what people were saying and they were saying Reverse-Diggle... OK, Jimmy, it's over. Clear your desk, you're done here.

[random11]

- Hey Winn, we have like around 20 soldiers that keep getting hurt since they go against alien forces, did you ever consider making these shields to the agents?
- No! Superheroes only!
- Maybe to one or two elite agents? Just for Alex even?
- Do you see her wearing a mask?! I don't.
- You do realize you used OUR resources to make that suit, right?
- Nope, nothing immoral here, move along.


Also, did they run out of alien ideas that they thought it was necessary to use "The Thing"?

[The New Bruceski]

So Jimmy is Steel, Mon-El is Superboy, I assume Cadmus has Cyborg Superman on a table somewhere, can we get Eradicator in for a full Reign of the Supermen?

[Dragonus45]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped

So says you.

[BWR]

Not impressed by this episode.
The Thing rip-off, countries casually letting supposedly top secret agencies from other countries come in and do their thing, the extreme idiocy of the DEO in their handling of the situation ("everybody dead and drained except this one guy? Welp, nothing to see here, better let the very suspicious guy go without checking things out."), how Jimmy just casually walks into the DEO whenever he pleases - yeah, he's the Supes' best bud but come on. Winn just appropriating expensive **** to make suits exclusively for his friend and not, like, every field agent in the DEO. Jimmy wanting to keep this secret.
Kara casually picking up highly dangerous material which I can only imagine was just lying around unguarded to kill Parasite.

The sheer number of stupid ideas in this episode was painful.

[Clertar]

The sheer number of stupid ideas in this episode was painful.

From what I've seen, the action is pulling off a good vintage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I74llekmlk) style.

[Ping Pong Along]

People have been kind of harsh on this show and some of it I get, but a lot of it I don't. Jimmy's story line has admittedly been bad. It's like they didn't know what they were doing with him, so they decided to make him a hero, but it comes out of nowhere and doesn't really fit with the tone of the rest of the show. And like was pointed out by random11, there are a lot of plot holes that this causes.

But there was a ton of awesome stuff that happened in this episode! Parasite was probably the best villain the show has done (though his motivations could have used a rewrite). I love how the alien bar has become a main setting for the show. Kara getting drunk for the first time! Mon-el getting free drinks non-stop! Mon-el stepping up as a hero was a believable progression that didn't over do it. Alex's finally coming out took what could have been a very cliche scene and added another layer to it that I didn't expect. Maggie's disinterest was also completely understandable (and I was kind of on Maggie's side on that one).

So yeah, there's a lot to like about the episode, despite some flaws.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not impressed by this episode.
The Thing rip-off, countries casually letting supposedly top secret agencies from other countries come in and do their thing, the extreme idiocy of the DEO in their handling of the situation ("everybody dead and drained except this one guy? Welp, nothing to see here, better let the very suspicious guy go without checking things out."), how Jimmy just casually walks into the DEO whenever he pleases - yeah, he's the Supes' best bud but come on. Winn just appropriating expensive **** to make suits exclusively for his friend and not, like, every field agent in the DEO. Jimmy wanting to keep this secret.
Kara casually picking up highly dangerous material which I can only imagine was just lying around unguarded to kill Parasite.

The sheer number of stupid ideas in this episode was painful.

So you're saying Supergirl has finished the transition period and is now a full-on CW show?

[random11]

People have been kind of harsh on this show and some of it I get, but a lot of it I don't. Jimmy's story line has admittedly been bad. It's like they didn't know what they were doing with him, so they decided to make him a hero, but it comes out of nowhere and doesn't really fit with the tone of the rest of the show. And like was pointed out by random11, there are a lot of plot holes that this causes.


I don't think people are harsh on this show.
I think they are just afraid that the same thing that happened in Arrow and Flash will also take place here.

Compared to them, Super-girl is still the best DC superhero show (not comparing it to Legends of Tomorrow since it's a different kind of show), and all signs are showing that the writers ran out of ideas and start to take the easy route of all the other shows.
I think I am critical of the flaws because they remind me of what happened to the other shows.
I WANT this show to succeed, I want this to be different, I want the writers to just take the concept and have fun with it like it was on the start or at the beginning of this season, and the last thing I want is for it to be like the Flash.

[random11]

Intruder detected, identify yourself!
System recognizes Kryptonian blood on your hands, please carry on.

Superman needs a serious upgrade for his security system...

[random11]

New episode.

First, something I don't consider as a spoiler, if anyone expected it to be the first part of the cross-over, prepare to be disappointed.
I do not count 30 seconds at the end of the episode with "come to our universe" as a part one of a crossover, and neither should them.

As for the rest of the comments:

1) Might be nitpicking, but can someone explain why a Kryptonian uses a mythological creature from earth as a name for a project?

2) Now that we have a new love relationship, two questions before the inevitable return to the status que: How long will they drag this "romance", and how will it break.

3) Speaking of Status que, that was the stupidest excuse not to tell the truth about the whole "guardian suit" thing.

4) And speaking of not telling the truth, how many more times will we use the same plot twist where Lena seems to be working for Cadmus but in fact try to sabotage them? If I'm not mistaken that was the third time this season.

[Avilan the Grey]

Observation:
Strange that they managed to write a really good Coming Out story (at least to me, who is a straight man) while in the same episode
layered on the environmental preaching so thick it was truly annoying.
Also, please note I agree with the ideas in the episode, but that part was truly a "Very Special Episode"

[gomipile]

S02e09, Supergirl Lives was alright.


The solar grenade at the end was fun. If they gave her a solar suit like Superboy had at first in Young Justice... then she'd probably be too unstoppable for a CW series....

Nevermind.

Melissa Benoist is still bringing wonderful energy and physicality to her role. This series is fun to watch. With the choices they've made, it's a bit like a chunk of a live action version of the DCAU Justice League/JLU.

[Kyberwulf]

Okay, so I just binged watch the first season.

I have to say, I don't mind changing Jimmy's race. But changing him to be so,.... Tall and muscle-y? It kind of ruined his character for me. It would have been a little cool to have someone like, Donald Glover or someone who seemed to be more of a Jimmy Olson type. It kept taking me out of the show when I would watch, get used to him, and then they reference him being the noob phothog that followed Superman around. He was a good character though, just wish he was someone else. Either actor or someone who was sent over.

Lord being luther was meh.

Cat Grant was cool. I found her annoying, not in a good way. A pretty cheap rip off of the Devil wears prada motif. I am glad they didn't keep it up though the whole series. I have to admit, the episode where she reunites with her son. That was a good episode.

The episodes where pretty good. Except, well, they kind blew all the standard superman motiffs in the first season. Red Krytonite, losing her powers, and all the kind of stuff. What are they keeping for the reason of the seasons. I think the only one they didn't do was the groundhog day episode. It really bothered me that Jimmy never onced said. Hey this happened to Superman one time. "Oh yeah, Supergirl is affected by red kryptonite." You know. Stuff like that. Also, I feel like they came out with WAY to much technology that should have made Supergirl far less of a threat. I mean, they have all this tech that can capture aliens and hold them indefinitely. Yet, Kryptons are so far beyond us. And the Kryptons, WAY to many of them. I mean they should have been able to find the good guys and just... Kill them. It was weird how they would be such a threat one epidsode, then just. Disappear.

Superman, I don't get it. I mean, I get the legal reasons and all the stuff. Just, it felt so empty without anything coming from that side. They made family such a big motif in this season, yet. Nothing from Superman. He did nothing to help. I don't mean saving her. Just, training with her, being there for her. They made so much stuff up about her feeling alone. Yet, there is someone out there that has been there for some of what she experienced, and just... nothing. Superman was just not ... I mean, there are so many kryptons around and he doesn't fly over and isn't like. Hey, how are you guys. What was our world like. Why don't we stop fighting, and try to get along. Like, there was that one scene where Martian Manhunter is teaching Supergirl how to fly. He's like I can't do this but one time, otherwise they will catch me. It brought me out of the scene, and all I could think of was, Yeah? but Superman can. I can totally see Superman in that scene. A lot of scenes like that where he is teaching her about her abilities. There are a couple scenes where she would gush over Superman, or him as Kal-el. Then the next moment, he doesn't exist again. This all culminated in the last episode. I get that this is Supergirl. But, to just sit there and treat superman like a pair of boots on a table. That was...So BAD. This world that idolized Superman, even Kara did. Yet, nothing. Not a word or even a concerned look over the fact that he is STILL OUT when everyone else is pretty much fine. Kara didn't even give him a second glance. Well, so much for family right?

Uh, now to Supergirl. I tried watching the show before and couldn't get past the first episode. Just the way Kara acted, the Jimmy, and Cat thing. It was just to...I don't know. I didn't much care for it. I must admit I didn't care for the actor who player her either. At first, I didn't think she looked anything like Supergirl. I buckled down and forced myself to watch a couple episodes. Something cool happen though. I like it, she grew on me. It was a good experience. I have to admit my favorite moment that made her Supergirl for me. Was when she lost her powers and was trying to save the one guy, and as cheesy as it was the Store scene too. That moment made me like the show.

ON the subject of Tyler Hoechlin. I don't know if I am going to like him as Superman/Clark Kent. Not saying I am going in hating him. Just...Christoper Reeves will always be Superman to me. I think some people and roles were just made for each other. I think that was his. Tyler Hoechlin, now this might be me being biased, but he comes off as to predatory looking. Like he is a wolf. I don't know, to me he would look like some season villian that would beat the crap out of Supergirl.


Just asking though, I haven't watched the new season, I just want to know. Do they go Arrow with the show? I mean do they amp up the melodrama to 11? Cause that would turn me off on the show pretty bad.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's a CW show. They're required to spend half of each episode on cheap melodrama.

Tyler does a good job as Superman in the first two eps of s2, which also gives us Metallo, Luthors, and (coming up) Mxyzptlk.

[Ranxerox]

It's a CW show. They're required to spend half of each episode on cheap melodrama.


Emphasis on the word cheap. Have actors emote up on the screen is much cheaper than fight scenes and special effects.

[Fawkes]

It would have been a little cool to have someone like, Donald Glover or someone who seemed to be more of a Jimmy Olson type.

...I didn't know I wanted this until just this moment.

[lt_murgen]

It's a CW show. They're required to spend half of each episode on cheap melodrama.

Tyler does a good job as Superman in the first two eps of s2, which also gives us Metallo, Luthors, and (coming up) Mxyzptlk.

Yes, there is heavy melodrama in season 2. All sorts of angst and anger from interpersonal relationships. But I think they do a good job with it. I really don't mind it. See, the problem with the first season- Kara not used to being a superhero, is solved by the end. So how do you challenge the character- throw bigger monsters at her? Yes, some. A world-wide conspiracy? Sure. But that would rapidly get boring. A live action, 1 hour show can't be the same as a half-hour cartoon.

So they are using the interpersonal drama to drive home the point that she isn't Superman. She isn't some all-powerful god-like loner. And because she chooses to try to maintain connections with humanity, it costs her.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The show is also going out of its way to paint her as lacking the maturity for most of those relationships. It makes me look back fondly on the days when my kids were tweens.

[Lacuna Caster]

So they are using the interpersonal drama to drive home the point that she isn't Superman. She isn't some all-powerful god-like loner. And because she chooses to try to maintain connections with humanity, it costs her.
I haven't really been keeping up with episodes, but I don't think modern Superman has particularly separated himself from humanity. He still has the day-job, the hot girlfriend, the family farm, and gossip around the watchtower's water-cooler, right? Did that change lately?

[lt_murgen]

I haven't really been keeping up with episodes, but I don't think modern Superman has particularly separated himself from humanity. He still has the day-job, the hot girlfriend, the family farm, and gossip around the watchtower's water-cooler, right? Did that change lately?

Admittedly, it is hard to judge in this case. With the Flash/Supergirl cross-over, they established the multiverse. But it does seem that this Superman is relatively isolated- no mention of him visiting Kara as she grew up, Jimmy Olsen leaving Metropolis, few other superheroes (Batman mentioned obliquely, Martian Manhunter not allied with Superman, etc). They did mention that Superman and LEx Luthor used to be good friends, but Superman could never see the bad in Lex- even with proof- until it was too late. The implication was that Superman pulled away after being betrayed.

[Zmeoaice]

I don't like Mon-El and Supergirl's romance. They don't have any chemistry, and the characters are extremely mismatched. Granted given that the writers broke up James and Kara in the first episode of season 2 because of fan backlash, hopefully they'll break up Mon El and Kara before the season ends. I'm not going to watch any future episodes until this happens.

The series is still tainted with that poorly written romantic subplot, but at least it will start to be bearable once it is over.

[Lacuna Caster]

They did mention that Superman and Lex Luthor used to be good friends, but Superman could never see the bad in Lex- even with proof- until it was too late. The implication was that Superman pulled away after being betrayed.
That sounds interesting- is it just mentioned in passing or are they planning to flesh that out in flashbacks at some point?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Since the show is called Supergirl, I doubt we're getting anything more than that mention.

[lt_murgen]

Since the show is called Supergirl, I doubt we're getting anything more than that mention.

True, but with momma Luthor being the main villain, we do get hints.


Is anyone but me getting tired of the whole 'good guys are dumb' plot mechanism? You give someone clearance BEFORE you think to check and see if you can read his mind? Seriously? You just send Supergirl and Sillysister to recover the person who just beat the tar out of MM and a tactical team? Seriously? The moment you see momma Luthor, you start talking to your dad instead off double-tapping the main villain? Seriously? You take off flying to save the train, and don't think to scoop up momma Luthor on your way? Seriously?

[Rogar Demonblud]

The thing to remember about CW heroes is that they have Idiot Balls surgically implanted somewhere in their bodies. I'm pretty sure Barry has at least three.

[random11]

Dating a co-worker requires a talk to the HR, forms and a seminar.
Returning after years of being kidnapped and forced to work for the enemy gives you instant access to everything.

Glad they have priorities.

[The Key]

Overall, Supergirl is a lot of fun, and it was nice to actually see a non-mopey Superman--mopey is Batman's job. My favorite Superman is still Bruce Timm's--smart, nice guy, but no pushover.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Dating a co-worker requires a talk to the HR, forms and a seminar.
Returning after years of being kidnapped and forced to work for the enemy gives you instant access to everything.

Glad they have priorities.

See previous comment in re: Idiot Balls.

[Avilan the Grey]

Lena Luthor really is all over Kara, isn't she. I'm a straight man with a very broken gaydar, but yeah. I don't mind, at all, but if they don't intend her to be having a thing for Kara... then it borderlines really bad writing. Or acting. Or both.

Also, I LOVE Winn's girlfriend.

In other news: I don't get the Mon-El hate. I DO get it, to a point, from the shippers of Lena and Kara, but they are a BIT biased. I don't see the lack of chemistry. The fact that the other main couple have absolutely marvelous chemistry, however, overshadows the pairing, but no, their chemistry is not worse than 99% of other couples on TV or in movies.

[BWR]

Mon-el has consistently been the second best character in the show since Cat left (the best being Snapper). It's Alex I can't ****ing stand. I've hated her since day one and all the stupid **** she pulls and gets away with.
If I didn't like J'onn so much from other sources he'd be lower on the 'like' list because he also does a lot of stupid. And mostly for...all the characters in the show, really, it's 'do stupid stuff because emotions' rather than being sensible about things.
Goodness knows I'm one to talk about that, but I don't watch things to see other people continually screw things up in stupid ways if we are supposed to admire them for it or excuse their stupidity 'because emotions'.

All in all, this show has been from the start a sort of yo-yo of good and bad. The good stuff is quite good and the bad stuff is quite bad.

[Avilan the Grey]

The only characters I don't like in this show is all versions of Hank. Especially Cyborg Superman, but he is just so... boooooring.
I don't Megan either. Maybe I just don't like Martians? :smallbiggrin:

[Rogar Demonblud]

The best parts of this episode were Kara finally getting fired as a reporter and her catching Lena. The rest barely made it to the level of filler.

At this point, I'm basically done with Berlanti. Everyone starts as an idiot, they never learn, and if by some chance they do learn they forget it once the credits roll.

[The New Bruceski]

her catching Lena

The goons had some absolutely wonderful facial expressions after she went over.

[Avilan the Grey]

The goons had some absolutely wonderful facial expressions after she went over.

Realizing you're screwed makes you do that. :smallbiggrin:
I liked most of the episode. My favorite part was Alex actually following through with her threat. She was not bluffing, and not hindered. That alone subverted a number of Tropes right there. Also, again, seeing Kara's ultimate fighting face is amazing. Benoist is really really good at conveying any emotion. Anger and desperation included.

[random11]

Recent episode, is there any alien species that is NOT physically stronger than humans?
Three different types introduced today, all of them can crush metal locks like they were made of wet cardboard, armor at least equals to the best hi-tech armor the humans have, and crack open handcuffs with ease.
That kind of puts the entire "aliens are here to get us" and the registration thing in perspective...


Also, poor Kara, when will you learn NEVER to say you are happy?

[BWR]

Honestly, I'm getting pretty sick of Kara these days and I really wonder what Mon-el, the best character in the regular cast these days, sees in her. She's judgemental, prejudiced, hypocritical, inconsistent, rarely accepts that she makes mistakes or that other people have a point, and very rarely admits to her mistakes. She's basically what a lot of morons seem to think D&D paladins are supposed to be like.
In better news, Mon-el is still good, JimmyGuardian works surprisingly well after a rough start (they did a good job on the voice distorter), and Alex hasn't been super annoying for one entire episode.

[Fishybugs]

I really wonder what Mon-el, the best character in the regular cast these days,

I think you may have forgot your satire tags...

[random11]

Honestly, I'm getting pretty sick of Kara these days and I really wonder what Mon-el, the best character in the regular cast these days, sees in her. She's judgemental, prejudiced, hypocritical, inconsistent, rarely accepts that she makes mistakes or that other people have a point, and very rarely admits to her mistakes. She's basically what a lot of morons seem to think D&D paladins are supposed to be like.
In better news, Mon-el is still good, JimmyGuardian works surprisingly well after a rough start (they did a good job on the voice distorter), and Alex hasn't been super annoying for one entire episode.

Problem solved, with a song!
(please kill me now)

[Fishybugs]

Problem solved, with a song!
(please kill me now)

And, truly, what problem can't be?

[BWR]

I think you may have forgot your satire tags...

I think your satire detector is broken.

[random11]

Recent episode:


- Yes, it's an EXCELLENT idea to talk to someone who just sent assassins after you. No doubt that basic charm and a noodle soup will convince her.

- When targeted by bounty hunters, best place to hide is in your house playing scrabbles. Not, for example, in a secure location like the DEO.
(I'm not saying that the organization has a good record of protecting against uninvited guests, but it's still better than a wooden door)

- On a positive note, Alex and Maggie have the closest thing to an actual relationship in all the CW universe.

- We are approaching Grimm level of proportions between humans and aliens in the city.

- Severe case of "empty nest syndrome"