Question about 'Bardzilla'

[EndocrineBandit]

I've seen some old posts floating around about using Talfirian Song and Metamagic Song to persist all sorts of buff spells, most of which aren't illusion spells.. So, how do they pull that off?

O. o

[Cerefel]

The basic idea behind the combo is to use Metamagic Song to pile metamagic onto a spell while using Talfirian Song to subvert the limitations on Metamagic Song

[EndocrineBandit]

But most of the spells the list in the thread to be persisted with the combo aren't from the illusion school, Talfirian Song specifically affects illusion spells, so I'm not sure how it subverts the not having higher level spells to use with persist?



Edit : Affections is not affects.

[Cerefel]

But if you can use Talfirian Song to heighten some illusion spell of yours up to 9th+ then you can count as being able to cast spells of level 9th+ and so Metamagic Song can boost ANY spell to that level.

[EndocrineBandit]

Now, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.


I have aspirations to make a bard/warblade. I think this will aide me in shenanigans.

[Cerefel]

Another option to note is Lyric Spell which requires noticeably fewer feats, but requires more Bardic Music uses per spell

[Extra Anchovies]

But if you can use Talfirian Song to heighten some illusion spell of yours up to 9th+ then you can count as being able to cast spells of level 9th+ and so Metamagic Song can boost ANY spell to that level.

I don't think this actually works.


You cannot use the Metamagic Song feat to add metamagic feats that would make the spell's effective level higher than the highest level of spell that you can cast normally.

Using Talfirian Song to increase a spell's effective level pretty clearly isn't casting normally.


Another option to note is Lyric Spell which requires noticeably fewer feats, but requires more Bardic Music uses per spell

They don't quite do the same thing, though; Metamagic Song lets you spend bardic music to eliminate metamagic costs, while Lyric Spell lets you spend bardic music to cast spells you know. Lyric Spell can definitely be used with metamagic, though (it explicitly excludes Silent spells, which means other metamagic feats are allowed), so both it and Metamagic Song can in effect provide more high-level spell slots for metamagic'd spells.

[Flickerdart]

Using Talfirian Song to increase a spell's effective level pretty clearly isn't casting normally.
Normally, as in without this feat. After all, a character cannot normally cast any spell, and only gains this ability through class features.