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GalacticAxekick
2016-10-13, 11:26 PM
Exactly what it says on the tin! I aimed to make the Fighter class more versatile, and to magnify the differences between weapon and armour types.

More than anything, I'd like help coming up with roleplay features for the subclasses at 7th and 15th level, as well as advice on how balanced the different weapon/armour/subclass options are.

THE FIGHTER

Quick Build
You can make a fighter quickly by following these suggestions. First, make Strength or Dexterity your
highest ability score, depending on the weapons and armours you want to focus on (melee or ranged/finesse, light or heavy). Your next-highest score should be Constitution, or Charisma if you plan to adopt the Warlord discipline. Second, choose the soldier background.


Proficiency Bonus Features
1. +2 Combat Expertise
2. +2 Modus Operandi
3. +2 Martial Discipline
4. +2 Ability Score Improvement
5. +3 Extra Attack & Reaction (1)
6. +3 Modus Operandi
7. +3 Martial Discipline Feature
8. +3 Ability Score Improvement
9. +4 Combat Reflexes (1)
10.+4 Modus Operandi
11.+4 Martial Discipline Feature
12.+4 Ability Score Improvement
13.+5 Extra Attack & Reaction (2)
14.+5 Modus Operandi
15.+5 Martial Discipline Feature
16.+5 Ability Score Improvement
17.+6 Combat Reflexes (2)
18.+6 Modus Operandi
19.+6 Martial Discipline Feature
20.+6 Ability Score Improvement, Achillean Prowess

CLASS FEATURES
As a Fighter you gain the following features:

HIT POINTS
Hit Dice: 1d10 per Fighter Level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution Modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution Modifier per Fighter Level after 1st

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: All armour, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

EQUIPMENT
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) chain mail or (b) leather
(a) a martial melee weapon & shield, (b) two martial melee weapons or (c) a martial melee weapon and a ranged weapon with 20 units of ammunition
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack


COMBAT EXPERTISE
At 1st level, you gain the ability to control your attacks more finely. You may make a Power Attack by moving your ability bonus for hit to damage, and you may make a Careful Attack by moving your ability bonus for damage to hit.

MODUS OPERANDI
When you reach 2nd level, and again at 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th, you select a Modus Operandi, or method of operation, from any of the tables below. Each grants new or improved abilities when you use a favoured weapon or armour type.


Einhander Fighters keep an empty offhand, using it guide and counterbalance their attacks for utmost precision. As an attack, the Fighter may contest their attack roll vs their foe's Wisdom save. On success, the Fighter may inflict the Blind, Deaf or Poisoned conditions until the start of their next turn. The Fighter may spend an attack to automatically Blind, Deafen, Poison, or Restrain a creature they have grappled until the start of their next turn, or until the creature escapes the grapple.
Zweihander Fighters wield a melee weapon in two hands, tearing it through the air with Archemedes' grip. When the Fighter successfully shoves a target, they may move it up to 15' instead of 5', or they may move it up to 10' and knock it prone. As an attack, the Fighter may contest their attack roll vs their foes Wisdom save. On success, the Fighter may Frighten the target or deny them reactions until the start of the Fighter's next turn.
Dual Weapon Fighters wield a melee weapon in each hand, coordinating attacks to overwhelm single foes and match masses. The Fighter may combine two attacks (including their Bonus Attack) into one Advantaged attack, or split one attack into two Disadvantaged attacks.
Ranged Fighters wield thrown weapons or projectile weapons with unparalleled marksmenship. The Fighter may preform the Shove and Grapple manúuvres using ranged weapons, substituting the usual Strength (Athletics) check with an attack roll. When the target makes a check to escape the "Grapple" of the weapon that pins them, they contest the Fighter's original roll rather than an additional roll.



Light Fighters wear medium, light or no armour at all, relying on their agility, rather than durability, to protect them. Whenever the Fighter moves, they may instead Tumble their speed through occupied squares and difficult terrain at no penalty. They are sheltered from AoOs as they enter or leave a creature's space, but otherwise provoke AoOs as usual. The Fighter always ends the Tumble prone, and so a Fighter may only Tumble half their speed if they wish to end upright. Additionally, the Fighter gains Acrobatics proficiency, or any other Fighter skill proficiency if they already have it.
Heavy Fighters trust their lives to medium or heavy armour and make no attempts to flee danger. As a move action, the Fighter may Brace themselves, granting resistance to all but Psychic damage and Advantage on checks against forced movement. Additionally, the Fighter gains Athletics proficiency, or any other Fighter skill proficiency if they already have it.
Shielded Fighters tote their namesake, defending themselves and their allies alike. The Fighter may use an attack to Disengage themselves from a single target, to Disengage an ally within 5', or to grant an ally within 5' +2 to AC. When the ally leaves 5' reach of the Fighter, or when the Fighter's next turn begins, they lose these benefits.



Bludgeoning Fighters know how best to rattle senses. With a successful Power Attack, they may forgo damage and instead remove Dex bonuses to the target's AC until the start of the Fighter's next turn.
Piercing Fighters know how best to rend armour. With a successful Power Attack, they may forgo damage and instead remove armour bonuses to the target's AC until the start of the Fighter's next turn.
Slashing Fighters know how best to rip flesh. With a successful Power Attack, they may forgo damage and instead wound the target grievously. Until a Wisdom (Medicine) check is made against a DC equal to the attack's d20 roll, the target takes one weapon die of damage at the end of each of their turns.


MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
When you reach 3rd level, you choose a discipline that will guide you in war and peace. Choose Sentinel, Skirmisher or Warlord, all detailed below. The discipline you choose grants you features at 3rd level and again at 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th.


At 3rd level a Sentinel gains the Arrest feature. They may use a reaction to make attacks of opportunity whenever a creature enters their reach, and whenever a creature within reach targets a third party with an attack, action or spell.
At 7th level
[I]At 11th level a Sentinel gains the Parry and Riposte features. Parry allows them to add their proficiency to their AC when a melee attack is made against them. Riposte allows them to make an AoO against a creature who misses a melee attack against them.
At 15th level
[I]At 19th level a Sentinel has mastered the act of interception and gains the En Passant feature. When a moving creature is hit by the Sentinel's AoO, their speed becomes 0.



At 3rd level a Skirmisher gains the Jink feature. They may use a reaction, rather than an action, to Dash on their turn. As usual they may Dash their speed only once per round, though that Dash may be broken into smaller movements.
At 7th level
[I]At 11th level a Skirmisher gains the Bob and Weave features. Bob is a reaction that prevents all AoOs they would otherwise have provoked at a given instant. Weave is a reaction that dodges ranged attacks, as Snatch Arrows.
At 15th level
[I]At 19th level a Skirmisher gains the Castle feature. Friendly creatures between the Skirmisher and their foes provide total cover, provided they are of the Skirmisher's size or more. The Skirmisher may fall prone in such a creature's space to receive total cover from all directions.



At 3rd level a Warlord gains the Rally feature. As a reaction, they may Help a creature with a save, ability check or attack roll, provided the creature is within 5' + 5 x Cha' and can see or hear them.
At 7th level
[I]At 11th level a Warlord gains the Sic and Deploy features to command creatures within within 5' + 5 x Cha' that can see or hear them. Sic spends an attack to command a creature to attack with their reaction. Deploy spends an attack to command a creature to Dash with their reaction. As usual, a creature may Dash their speed only once per round, though that Dash may be broken into smaller movements.
At 15th level
[I]At 19th level a Warlord gains the Promotion feature. The Warlord may Sic or Deploy an incapacitated creature, and may Rally it to make it take actions when it otherwise could not. Rallying under such circumstances does not provide Advantage

COMBAT REFLEXES
When you reach 9th level, and again at 17th level, time-consuming actions in combat become easy and automatic. You may choose any one of the bonus actions from the list below.


Lash If you do not take the Attack action, you may still make a single attack as a bonus action.
Quickdraw You may equip any set of weapons you are carrying, as well as any unattended within reach, as a bonus action. This includes equipping shields and reloading ammunition.
Earmark As a bonus action, you may select a 5' space within line of sight and within your ranged weapon's effective range. This is within your reach, for the purposes of making attacks of opportunity using your ranged weapon (e.g. you may use your reaction to make a ranged attack on any creature stepping out of this space). Selecting a new target space leaves the old unattended.
Spring You may rise as a bonus action when you begin your turn prone, rather than spending any movement. Additionally, you may mount and dismount as a bonus action at any time during your turn.


ACHILLEAN PROWESS
At 20th level, the Fighter becomes totally natural with their tools and techniques of choice. They roar easy as others breathe, charge steady as others walk, and fight fluent as others speak.

When using their Weapon of Choice or Damage of Choice, the Fighter scores critical hits on a roll of 19 rather than 20. When using both, the Fighter scores critical hits on a roll of 18.

When using their Armour of Choice, the Fighter may replace the normal Dex bonus to their Dex saving throws with their bonuses to AC. A Heavy Fighter in full plate, for instance, would have 18 AC and enjoy a +8 bonus. A Light Fighter in studded leather would have 12+Dex AC and enjoy a +2+Dex bonus. Either Fighter in half plate would have 15+Dex (to a max of 2) AC, and enjoy a +5+Dex (to a max of 2) bonus. If either were also a Shielded Fighter toting a shield, which grants +2 AC, they'd enjoy an additional +2 on their Dex save.

clash
2016-10-14, 08:51 AM
So a few finer details to comment on first:

1) In regards to heavy fighters, there is no such thing as a "move action" in 5e. If you want to stay with that make it "on any turn you don't move"

2) Your subclasses are riddled with reactions that happen on your turn. That just feels really weird. A reaction by definition happens in response to something else happening. Seems like just action economy abuse. Use a bonus action instead.

3) Are you allowing this class to take 5 reactions by level 17?

Ok now the really glaring issues:

This class is strictly superior to the normal fighter which was balanced with the other classes in the game. That means this class is strictly more powerful than the other classes. 5 attacks every turn is stronger than and far more boring than action surge twice per short rest.

Which brings me to my next point, resource management is one of the things that makes a class not so stale. Sure this class has lots of options for how to build your character but once he is built, you are going to find one strategy that works well and just use it turn after turn all day long. Without any resource management there is no real decisions to make.

Finally, the original fighter had very diverse subclasses to allow for anything from a simple hack and slash player to the war strategist to the magical knight. Your subclasses just improve upon things the fighter can already do without them, they don't add anything new or really define the character.

I can see the value in what your doing with the weapons and armor stuff and it is cool, the rest of the class just needs some work. I hope this doesn't sound too critical.

GalacticAxekick
2016-10-14, 09:47 AM
1) In regards to heavy fighters, there is no such thing as a "move action" in 5e. If you want to stay with that make it "on any turn you don't move" Noted! I might rephrase it, then so it says "By spending their speed, the Fighter may Brace themselves". The intention was not that the Fighter becomes immobile, but that they lose their normal allotted movement. The Fighter might still Dash as as action, Jink by throwing away a reaction or be moved by a Warlord while Braced.

Because the Skirmisher is defined by its ability to move freely (at the cost of having less or no reactions to defend itself), tying heavy armour to total immobility would mean there's no reason to build a heavy Skirmishers.


2) Your subclasses are riddled with reactions that happen on your turn. That just feels really weird. A reaction by definition happens in response to something else happening. Seems like just action economy abuse. Use a bonus action instead. I specifically avoided using a bonus action for two reasons.

First, the extra movement and evasion Skirmisher's enjoy is supposed to come at a penalty of fewer to no conventional reactions. While Sentinels use reactions conventionally (to defend themselves, their allies and their space during the enemy turn) Skirmishers give up reactions and make themselves vulnerable in order to move further and more safely on their own turn. If Jink was a bonus action rather than reaction, Skirmishers would have improved mobility at no penalty to their reactions.

Second, the Bonus Action is essential for two-weapon fighters. In base 5e they get an extra attack from it, and in this homebrew their ability to combine two attacks into one depends on it (until they acquire extra attacks). I wouldn't want the Skirmisher to be in conflict with a two-weapon-fighting build at early levels. Unless all weapon-of-choice benefits were dependant on a bonus action, I don't see how that would be fair to two-weapon skirmishers.


3) Are you allowing this class to take 5 reactions by level 17?
Yes. In the same vein that 3.5e allowed extra reactions as your Dex bonus increases (through Combat Reflexes), I thought to give reactions equal to Proficency -1.


This class is strictly superior to the normal fighter which was balanced with the other classes in the game. That means this class is strictly more powerful than the other classes. 5 attacks every turn is stronger than and far more boring than action surge twice per short rest.
Noted! Fewer attacks and reactions could be given: maybe a mere 3, since this version of the Fighter has other elements to support it that the PBH Fighter does not.


Which brings me to my next point, resource management is one of the things that makes a class not so stale. Sure this class has lots of options for how to build your character but once he is built, you are going to find one strategy that works well and just use it turn after turn all day long. Without any resource management there is no real decisions to make. The intended resource is actions themselves. Each Weapon of Choice provides several alternate Attacks, Armour of Choice provides alternate movements, Damage of Choice plays into the Careful/basic/Power Attack decision. Signature Move provides alternate actions, and each subclass has a few different ways they can use their reactions. There's no finite resource, like Ki or spell slots, but each round the Fighter must choose which of their resources are most fitting.

An Einhander Fighter might use one attack to impose Blindness (and Advantage), one power attack to remove the target's armour bonus, and their final attack as a plain power attack for fair damage. For the remainder of the round, the foe is vulnerable to allied attacks.
... or the same Fighter might use one attack to Grapple, a second to Restrain, and then move on to another target with their hostage in tow. It depends on present needs and the player's ability to perceive them. Do we need to bash this enemy to dough, so much so that everyone needs in on it? Or do we need them out of the way while the party focuses on other things? Can this enemy be reliably grappled for long?

A shield-toting Fighter might share the front lines with an ally, sharing the shield's AC and Disengagement to keep their ally mobile as they flank this foe and that.
... or they might use the shield to Disengage themselves from minor threats as they concentrate on the honcho among them, in true duelist fashion. Again, this is needs-dependent. Does my ally need this help handling this pack of goons safely? Would I be more useful chasing down a particular foe?

A medium-armoured Fighter might Tumble into the fray to cut a choice foe down, (if it turns out this foe is high priority)
... or Brace to hold a line against the masses (if it turns out there's someone or something to protect and aggro to be drawn from it)

A Warlord might use Deploy to move choice allies from danger and bring choice allies to the front lines,
... or they may rush into melee themselves and Sic allies to used the combined effects of their abilities (perhaps the Warlord's Zweihander shove and an ally's ranged attacks to beat enemies back!)

I can't imagine any one of these strategies would always be the answer. If every fight can be won by a Fighter poking the foe in the eyes, piercing their armour and swamping them with blows, the DM isn't designing interesting foes or objectives.


Finally, the original fighter had very diverse subclasses to allow for anything from a simple hack and slash player to the war strategist to the magical knight. Your subclasses just improve upon things the fighter can already do without them, they don't add anything new or really define the character.
I actually despise the Eldritch Knight, on grounds that magic isn't the domain of a martial class; a spellcasting Fighter should be a multiclass Fighter. I'm not a fan of the Champion either, since it can't do much but hack and slash, as you said. As far as I'm concerned, the Battle Master is the only worthwhile Fighter subclass. And so the subclasses I defined encompass and expand on the various abilities of the Battle Master.

I chose to tie them to the round-by-round action economy rather than a finite economy of Superiority dice so that the Fighter can focus on what (among options with tradeoff) they should do, rather than when to use an obviously superior option. I want Fighters to focus on stringing abilities together to make more than the sum of their parts, rather than waiting for an opportune time to use a powerful ability and taking ordinary actions in the interim (the flaw that makes me dislike even Battle Masters).


I can see the value in what your doing with the weapons and armor stuff and it is cool, the rest of the class just needs some work. I hope this doesn't sound too critical. Not at all! Flaws are flaws. If you think so, I'm sure others will, so it's best to deal with them.

Lalliman
2016-10-15, 09:26 AM
I don't have time for an in-depth analysis, but I'll say two things. First, I also think turn-to-turn decisions are much more interesting than resource expenditure. I've always wished that other classes made use of their bonus actions in the way that rogues and monks do, i.e. they use them every turn and have multiple ways to spend them, making you consider the best use of your bonus action every round. So I think your design philosophy is great in that regard.

However, there's a big problem with the way this class applies status effects. Let's just look at the Zweihander Modus for the sake of illustration. It allows you to, upon making a successful melee attack, forgo damage to instead Shove or Frighten the target. This is thematically extremely weird because it has no interaction with the mechanics that are supposed to govern resisting being shoved or frightened. If a zweihander fighter can hit a creature's AC, then they can knock them prone regardless of the fighter's Str, the target's Str, or whether the target has proficiency in Athletic or Str saves. This means that an ogre (large, Str 19, AC 11) is easier to knock down than a goblin (small, Str 8, AC 15). Likewise, a zweihander fighter can frighten anyone whose AC they can hit, regardless of their Wis save modifier and completely bypassing features such as the Gladiator's Brave (advantage on saves against being frightened).

Additionally, in combination with Combat Expertise (which, don't get me wrong, is a great ability on its own), it becomes extremely easy to apply devastating conditions. By level, let's say 9, Careful Attack will likely give you an attack bonus of +13. Given that even powerful monsters almost never have an AC above 20, and you have 3 attacks at that point, you can pretty much guarantee to keep a single monster Frightened or Blinded (with Einhander) non-stop, and probably still be able to get damaging attacks in. And even if you can't get any damaging attacks in, Blinding a boss monster will make them easy pickings for your allies. Lowering the amount of attacks will somewhat offset this problem, but even then it still strikes me as exploitable.

Point is, these conditions should probably allow a saving throw. Maybe allow the attack in question to deal half damage instead of no damage, to offset the chance of failure. Of course, that brings the problem of potentially having to roll tons of dice in one turn. I don't have a clear-cut answer here, but I think I've made the problem clear.

GalacticAxekick
2016-10-15, 10:42 AM
However, there's a big problem with the way this class applies status effects. Let's just look at the Zweihander Modus for the sake of illustration. It allows you to, upon making a successful melee attack, forgo damage to instead Shove or Frighten the target. This is thematically extremely weird because it has no interaction with the mechanics that are supposed to govern resisting being shoved or frightened. If a zweihander fighter can hit a creature's AC, then they can knock them prone regardless of the fighter's Str, the target's Str, or whether the target has proficiency in Athletic or Str saves. This means that an ogre (large, Str 19, AC 11) is easier to knock down than a goblin (small, Str 8, AC 15). Likewise, a zweihander fighter can frighten anyone whose AC they can hit, regardless of their Wis save modifier and completely bypassing features such as the Gladiator's Brave (advantage on saves against being frightened).
You know, I agree wholeheartedly. I wanted the Zweihander specialty to specialize in area control (moving enemies, frightening them, removing their reactions so they can't impede your movement). But I handled that clumsily, trying to keep things simple and consequentially oversimplifying.

Lets forgo the attack-to-shove (since they have an improved shove anyway). How about, as an attack, you may contest between your attack roll and the target's Wisdom save to Frighten them or remove their reactions?


Additionally, in combination with Combat Expertise (which, don't get me wrong, is a great ability on its own), it becomes extremely easy to apply devastating conditions. By level, let's say 9, Careful Attack will likely give you an attack bonus of +13. Given that even powerful monsters almost never have an AC above 20, and you have 3 attacks at that point, you can pretty much guarantee to keep a single monster Frightened or Blinded (with Einhander) non-stop, and probably still be able to get damaging attacks in. And even if you can't get any damaging attacks in, Blinding a boss monster will make them easy pickings for your allies. Lowering the amount of attacks will somewhat offset this problem, but even then it still strikes me as exploitable. There may be a misunderstanding here. The Careful Attack moves the ability bonus from damage to hit. If you're forgoing damage to Blind the target, for instance, it's impossible to move the non-existent bonus and perform the manoeuvre carefully.

The only way to improve the aim of the special conditions would be to gain Advantage (which requires a condition, and can't be one you impose because those end at the start of your next turn) or to succeed at a Piercing or Bludgeoning Power Attack (when themselves have poor accuracy).


Point is, these conditions should probably allow a saving throw. Maybe allow the attack in question to deal half damage instead of no damage, to offset the chance of failure. Of course, that brings the problem of potentially having to roll tons of dice in one turn. I don't have a clear-cut answer here, but I think I've made the problem clear. Saving throw and attack roll does seem like too many dice at once, in my opinion. Do the aforementioned changes and clarification alleviate anything (combined with fewer attacks)?

Lalliman
2016-10-15, 11:08 AM
Lets forgo the attack-to-shove (since they have an improved shove anyway). How about, as an attack, you may contest between your attack roll and the target's Wisdom save to Frighten them or to remove their reactions.
The contest to frighten seems great, especially since the way intimidation normally works is questionable. You could probably do something similar with the conditions applies by Einhander. I feel like removing someone's reactions could be cheaper though. Compare to Shocking Grasp, which removes someone's reactions in addition to dealing damage. Maybe let this be a free rider effect for when you land a Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, representing that the target is staggered by a heavy hit. Seems to make sense balance-wise as well: due to larger damage dice, zweihander fighters get less benefit out of power attack than fighters wielding smaller weapons, so the boost doesn't make it an overpowering option.


There may be a misunderstanding here. The Careful Attack moves the ability bonus from damage to hit. If you're forgoing damage to Blind the target, for instance, it's impossible to move the non-existent bonus and perform the manoeuvre carefully.
That makes sense. My thought process was that you decide the effect of the attack after making the attack roll, similar to e.g. Stunning Strike, because it's described as a way to modify an attack rather than as a distinct action. You might want to add a "you can't use Combat Expertise on attacks that deal no damage" note for sleep-deprived people like me. But yeah, this makes it a lot more reasonable.

GalacticAxekick
2016-10-15, 11:29 AM
The contest to frighten seems great, especially since the way intimidation normally works is questionable. You could probably do something similar with the conditions applies by Einhander. I feel like removing someone's reactions could be cheaper though. Compare to Shocking Grasp, which removes someone's reactions in addition to dealing damage. Maybe let this be a free rider effect for when you land a Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, representing that the target is staggered by a heavy hit. Seems to make sense balance-wise as well: due to larger damage dice, zweihander fighters get less benefit out of power attack than fighters wielding smaller weapons, so the boost doesn't make it an overpowering option. I'm glad you like the contest! And yeah, I can see how the remove-reaction effect is weaker compared to the likes of Shocking Grasp. But I think having multiple attacks somewhat mediates this. Being able to remove reactions from three targets means creating a space allies can pass without any risk of AoOs. Being able to remove reactions enemy Fighters who themselves use reactions extensively can be game-changing.

Also, most but not all zweihander Fighters will have high damage dice. Any among them using pole weapons will do only normal damage, except with reach.


That makes sense. My thought process was that you decide the effect of the attack after making the attack roll, similar to e.g. Stunning Strike, because it's described as a way to modify an attack rather than as a distinct action. You might want to add a "you can't use Combat Expertise on attacks that deal no damage" note for sleep-deprived people like me. But yeah, this makes it a lot more reasonable. I'll edit the original post to clarify! Thanks!

Amnoriath
2016-10-15, 06:47 PM
I don't have time to break down everything you have so instead I am going to focus on what any one of your fighters will have in comparison to the original and other martial classes.
1. 5 attacks and 4 more reactions has effectively doubled the consistent damage output of a normal fighter. It is one thing to make the attacks come in line with say Eldritch Blast it is another to with a couple of feats out damage Multiattack in DPR against most numbers of opponents. Another way to put it is that you gave them the attacks of a Fighter with Action Surge always on. Though your Sentinel makes quick work of filling that out. As you can see the potential amount of action economy could be ridiculous especially considering they max at level 17.
2. Herculean Might has made this a better Barbarian than the real thing could ever hope to be adding another d20 to the roll has broken Bounded Accuracy as they will likely always be making epic level checks and submitting Ancient Dragons. It also doesn't sound like a fighter including many of your other features.
3. Overall while the addition of options is nice it no longer feels like a base class it feels like a generic class system without the spells and the additional attacks as well as Herculean Might makes this by the numbers the twice the martial class of anything else except for health.

GalacticAxekick
2016-10-15, 07:33 PM
1. 5 attacks and 4 more reactions has effectively doubled the consistent damage output of a normal fighter. It is one thing to make the attacks come in line with say Eldritch Blast it is another to with a couple of feats out damage Multiattack in DPR against most numbers of opponents. Another way to put it is that you gave them the attacks of a Fighter with Action Surge always on. Though your Sentinel makes quick work of filling that out. As you can see the potential amount of action economy could be ridiculous especially considering they max at level 17. Right! This was noted earlier by another commenter, and I wanted to edit the original post to rectify the error by granting only three attacks and three reactions (6 attacks and potential AoOs total, vs the PHB Fighter's 5 + Action Surge).

I've since edited that, replacing the extra attacks/reactions with the Combat Reflexes feature. I'm not totally satisfied with it, but it will do for now.


2. Herculean Might has made this a better Barbarian than the real thing could ever hope to be adding another d20 to the roll has broken Bounded Accuracy as they will likely always be making epic level checks and submitting Ancient Dragons. A fair criticism! Skill vs power is the usual distinction between Fighters and Barbarians, and giving Fighter's a high-power ability is crossing a line.

I've since edited that, replacing Herculean Might with Achillean Prowess: a magnificantion of Modus Operandi benefits.


It also doesn't sound like a fighter including many of your other features. I'm not sure what you mean. That this, along with other of the other features, does not sound like a Fighter feature? Or that this doesn't sound like a Fighter feature, compared to both PHB features and features I came up with?


3. Overall while the addition of options is nice it no longer feels like a base class it feels like a generic class system without the spells and the additional attacks as well as Herculean Might makes this by the numbers the twice the martial class of anything else except for health. You already mentioned the additional attacks and Might so there's nothing to be said there. Regarding this feeling like a class system rather than class, how so?

If it helps at all, this was modeled after the 5e Warlock. The Modus Operandi were inspired by the Warlock's Eldritch Invocations, providing a variety of abilities available between all subclasses, while each of the subclasses (like distinct Warlock pacts) has access to distinct features entirely.

Amnoriath
2016-10-18, 01:18 PM
Right! This was noted earlier by another commenter, and I wanted to edit the original post to rectify the error by granting only three attacks and three reactions (6 attacks and potential AoOs total, vs the PHB Fighter's 5 + Action Surge).

I've since edited that, replacing the extra attacks/reactions with the Combat Reflexes feature. I'm not totally satisfied with it, but it will do for now.

A fair criticism! Skill vs power is the usual distinction between Fighters and Barbarians, and giving Fighter's a high-power ability is crossing a line.

I've since edited that, replacing Herculean Might with Achillean Prowess: a magnificantion of Modus Operandi benefits.

I'm not sure what you mean. That this, along with other of the other features, does not sound like a Fighter feature? Or that this doesn't sound like a Fighter feature, compared to both PHB features and features I came up with?

You already mentioned the additional attacks and Might so there's nothing to be said there. Regarding this feeling like a class system rather than class, how so?

If it helps at all, this was modeled after the 5e Warlock. The Modus Operandi were inspired by the Warlock's Eldritch Invocations, providing a variety of abilities available between all subclasses, while each of the subclasses (like distinct Warlock pacts) has access to distinct features entirely.

1. That is better but when would they kick in though? This is important because if they use your current set up the Fighter as you have designed scales by being able to do it more often, otherwise you are just gaining more knowledge for the most part.
2. Except that a Warlock while may be different in its abilities it follows the same unique structure and have the good Eldritch Blast features that keep them resembling one another and grounded in the same basis. They are also spell-casters which more likely than not is going differentiate themselves more. Your Fighter though tries almost too hard in trying to create many different tricks which really question is this unique to the idea of a fighter or is it something anyone with a weapon could learn?
3. It should also be noted while the Combat Expertise is a nice touch Power Attack not only starts inferior to Careful Attack increasing attack numbers but when looking a your MO's and damage specializations if Careful Attack increases your attack rolls while Power Attack decreases it Careful Attack has +4 to +10 advantage on making creatures fail their saves over Power Attack. This is a huge discrepancy for 5e.

GalacticAxekick
2016-10-18, 10:05 PM
1. That is better but when would they kick in though? This is important because if they use your current set up the Fighter as you have designed scales by being able to do it more often, otherwise you are just gaining more knowledge for the most part.
When does what kick in? Do what more often? The Extra Attacks? If that's what you mean, they kick in at the levels I listed (5th and 13th). I'm not sure what you mean by "otherwise you are just gaining more knowledge" either. Do you mean the Fighter is gaining more knowledge as they level, instead of something else? Because there is nothing else. Aside from raw ability (Str, Dex, etc) technical knowledge is how every class grows (except Barbarians, arguably, and they're defined by their powerful abilities and lack of technique).


2. Except that a Warlock while may be different in its abilities it follows the same unique structure and have the good Eldritch Blast features that keep them resembling one another and grounded in the same basis. They are also spell-casters which more likely than not is going differentiate themselves more. Your Fighter though tries almost too hard in trying to create many different tricks which really question is this unique to the idea of a fighter or is it something anyone with a weapon could learn? Anyone with a weapon who learns these abilities is a Fighter. Mastering these extra attacks and reactions, weapon/damage/armour specialties and various combat skills is how someone becomes a Fighter, just like studying spells makes someone a Wizard.


3. It should also be noted while the Combat Expertise is a nice touch Power Attack not only starts inferior to Careful Attack increasing attack numbers but when looking a your MO's and damage specializations if Careful Attack increases your attack rolls while Power Attack decreases it Careful Attack has +4 to +10 advantage on making creatures fail their saves over Power Attack. This is a huge discrepancy for 5e. Careful Attacks work by taking bonuses to damage and adding it to attack (for example, turning 1d20+2+3 to hit and 1d6+3 damage into 1d20+2+6 to hit and 1d6 damage). Because the Einhander moves, Zweihander moves, Grapple and Shove don't involve damage rolls, you cannot turn them into Careful Attacks. Careful Attacks can't make an enemy fail their saves.

I don't see the discrepancy.