Magic initiate question

[TmasterT]

You learn one 1st lvl spell and can cast it once at first lvl per long rest. The question is since the spell is learned can I cast it from my other spell slots as normal?

[tieren]

You learn one 1st lvl spell and can cast it once at first lvl per long rest. The question is since the spell is learned can I cast it from my other spell slots as normal?

I believe the rule is you can, if and only if it is also on your class spell list.

[CNagy]

Only if you have the Spellcasting feature from the same class. In other words, you take Magic Initiate (Wizard) and then you take a level of Wizard, you've learned the spell and can cast it from your Wizard spell slots. If you take Magic Initiate (Sorcerer) and then take a level of Wizard, you cannot cast the the spell from your Wizard spell slots. It's a bit wierd but afaik that's how it shakes out post errata.

[Quintessence]

Fairly sure the final ruling was it could be cast out of any slot because once you multiclass there is no such thing as sorcerer or wizard slots, etc.

[CNagy]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats

If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

[Quintessence]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats

If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

Well that is retarded, oh well. Who would spend a feat on a level 1 spell and a cantrip.

[DracoKnight]

Well that is retarded, oh well. Who would spend a feat on a level 1 spell and a cantrip.

It's 2 cantrips :smallcool:
Eh, it's pretty decent option on a VHuman. Are there better options? Sure. But if I'm creating a character concept, and my concept is a fighter who wields magic, I can do that from 1st level now, instead of waiting until 3rd.

[GlenSmash!]

I also find it a great way for any character to pick up a Familiar.

Also a great way for a Blade Pact Warlock to grab Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade.

[Pex]

The so called official ruling is a dumb one. It is pointless to spend a feat to learn a 1st level spell from your class you could have learned normally if you really wanted it that much. The extra cantrips are nice, but that alone is not worth a feat considering there's already more to it than that. You're already getting the cantrips you really want just by being your class. The cool thing about the feat is getting cantrips from other classes you may want. For example, I took Magic Initiate to learn Eldritch Blast for my Sorcerer for when Firebolt won't work but still have similar damage potential. My first level spell is Hex. The DM allows me to cast it normally with my spell slots. I can even Twin it. A non-cleric may want Sacred Flame for the radiant damage and even Guidance is a juicy option.

The feat tells you you learn the spell. It allows the one per long rest casting option to signify that non-spellcasters can still benefit. I have not destroyed the campaign to unplayability because I've been casting Hex with my spell slots, sometimes Twinned. It's not going to destroy a campaign for anyone to do so with any first level spell. Non-spellcasters and those without Cantrips tend to want the feat for the Cantrips. Spellcasters want it for the 1st level spell they couldn't otherwise have.

[DracoKnight]

I also find it a great way for any character to pick up a Familiar.

Also a great way for a Blade Pact Warlock to grab Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade.

Those are both on the Warlock list...oh, wait...Warlocks only ever get 4 cantrips. Yup, I agree, VHuman, grab...maybe Armor of Agathys and the two Blade cantrips.

[DracoKnight]

The so called official ruling is a dumb one. It is pointless to spend a feat to learn a 1st level spell from your class you could have learned normally if you really wanted it that much. The extra cantrips are nice, but that alone is not worth a feat considering there's already more to it than that. You're already getting the cantrips you really want just by being your class. The cool thing about the feat is getting cantrips from other classes you may want. For example, I took Magic Initiate to learn Eldritch Blast for my Sorcerer for when Firebolt won't work but still have similar damage potential. My first level spell is Hex. The DM allows me to cast it normally with my spell slots. I can even Twin it. A non-cleric may want Sacred Flame for the radiant damage and even Guidance is a juicy option.

The feat tells you you learn the spell. It allows the one per long rest casting option to signify that non-spellcasters can still benefit. I have not destroyed the campaign to unplayability because I've been casting Hex with my spell slots, sometimes Twinned. It's not going to destroy a campaign for anyone to do so with any first level spell. Non-spellcasters and those without Cantrips tend to want the feat for the Cantrips. Spellcasters want it for the 1st level spell they couldn't otherwise have.

This. All of this. I hate the official ruling, it's dumb.

[bardo]

You learn one 1st lvl spell and can cast it once at first lvl per long rest. The question is since the spell is learned can I cast it from my other spell slots as normal?

The PHB errata says:
Magic Initiate (p. 168). The feat’s limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat.

You may use your other slots (and higher level slots) to cast the MI spell.
You may not use your MI slot (which is not really a slot) to cast other spells.

Bardo.

[Sigreid]

The PHB errata says:

You may use your other slots (and higher level slots) to cast the MI spell.
You may not use your MI slot (which is not really a slot) to cast other spells.

Bardo.

Ok, that ruling makes perfect sense.

[CNagy]

The PHB errata says:

You may use your other slots (and higher level slots) to cast the MI spell.
You may not use your MI slot (which is not really a slot) to cast other spells.

Bardo.

That errata doesn't mean what you think it means. You learn the spell as part of the feat. If it was a Bard spell, for instance, you've learned a Bard spell. If your class is Cleric, read the Spellcasting feature for Cleric; it specifies the Cleric Spell list. This is made clear in the Sage Advice column.

The errata clarifies that if you have another way to cast the same spell, using your Magic Initiate "slot" doesn't prohibit you from legally casting the spell from slots. You still have to have the relevant Spellcasting class feature to cast from slots.

[Pex]

Of course this "feat slot" can only be used for the 1st level spell learned by the feat and no other spell. I would even agree that since the feat specifies the ability score modifier for the spellcasting class the spell is chosen from is used that it must use that same modifier even when casting using your spell slots. For example, if a Wizard took the feat and learned Guiding Bolt when casting the spell using his spell slots he has to use Wisdom, not Intelligence, to determine is spell attack modifier. It's not coincidence that I chose Warlock for my Sorcerer since both use Charisma to determine my spell attack modifier for Eldritch Blast.

[CaptainSarathai]

The ruling is only "stupid" if you're already a Caster and have levelled slots.
What that errata is really doing, is making Magic Initiate as useful for non-wizards as it is for anyone else. A Fighter with MI casts his spell just as effectively as a Wizard with the same. Unless that Wizard just wants some extra Cantrips and a 1st level spell.

If you are already a Caster and just want a 1st levrl spell from another list, instead of taking an ASI, just take a dip into that class.

[MeeposFire]

Of course this "feat slot" can only be used for the 1st level spell learned by the feat and no other spell. I would even agree that since the feat specifies the ability score modifier for the spellcasting class the spell is chosen from is used that it must use that same modifier even when casting using your spell slots. For example, if a Wizard took the feat and learned Guiding Bolt when casting the spell using his spell slots he has to use Wisdom, not Intelligence, to determine is spell attack modifier. It's not coincidence that I chose Warlock for my Sorcerer since both use Charisma to determine my spell attack modifier for Eldritch Blast.

Yea I don't think that is under any contention at all in most circles. If you are a bard and you pick up magic initiate cleric and take cure wounds when you cast cure wounds using your wisdom mod and not your cha mod and you can only cast it once using your magic initiate slot. The reason is that while cure wounds is on the bard list you did not get it as a bard but as a cleric.

Now I am not really a fan because the reasoning behind this is a very literal reading and I personally think that runs counter to how they bill the game (not just rulings not rules but also the common English idea which implies to me not needing to read everything like a rules lawyer but Crawford goes more of the rules lawyer route) but considering how Crawford does rulings it is a common way for them to go.

[bardo]

That errata doesn't mean what you think it means. You learn the spell as part of the feat. If it was a Bard spell, for instance, you've learned a Bard spell. If your class is Cleric, read the Spellcasting feature for Cleric; it specifies the Cleric Spell list. This is made clear in the Sage Advice column.

The errata clarifies that if you have another way to cast the same spell, using your Magic Initiate "slot" doesn't prohibit you from legally casting the spell from slots. You still have to have the relevant Spellcasting class feature to cast from slots.

I would suggest erasing the sage advice from your mind, re-reading the errata and then re-reading the feat.

"The restriction applies only to the casting" (the sort-of-but-not-really-spell-slot). It's not a real spell slot, they don't want to call it a spell slot (which is good), they call it a casting. Sure. The casting is restricted, but the known spell you get from MI is a garden variety known spell. No restrictions. You can cast it and up cast it with any spell slot you have from any class as per the multiclassing rules. Your casting ability for the MI spell is tied to the class from which you picked the spell (sometimes it makes a difference), and you can't use a spellcasting focus to substitute for Material components when casting it.

Bardo.

[jas61292]

The ruling is only "stupid" if you're already a Caster and have levelled slots.
What that errata is really doing, is making Magic Initiate as useful for non-wizards as it is for anyone else. A Fighter with MI casts his spell just as effectively as a Wizard with the same. Unless that Wizard just wants some extra Cantrips and a 1st level spell.

If you are already a Caster and just want a 1st levrl spell from another list, instead of taking an ASI, just take a dip into that class.

This actually makes a lot of sense. The feat is about giving you a taste of magic. Making it not-inherently better for people who already have magic makes a ton of sense, and makes me actually accept that ruling far more than I used to.

[ClintACK]

So (with the Sage Advice ruling) how would it work for this build:
- V-Human Fighter. At first level he takes MI: Wizard, Shield.
- At 3rd level, he goes EK.

Can he use his EK slots to cast Shield?

[CaptainSarathai]

So (with the Sage Advice ruling) how would it work for this build:
- V-Human Fighter. At first level he takes MI: Wizard, Shield.
- At 3rd level, he goes EK.

Can he use his EK slots to cast Shield?

Yes. His spells are taken from the Wizard list. As long as it's a spell you'd get normally, you can "up cast" it.
Look at it from the reverse - he takes MI with his L4 ASI. They say he can up cast it then, so why penalize him for taking it early?

[CNagy]

I would suggest erasing the sage advice from your mind, re-reading the errata and then re-reading the feat.

"The restriction applies only to the casting" (the sort-of-but-not-really-spell-slot). It's not a real spell slot, they don't want to call it a spell slot (which is good), they call it a casting. Sure. The casting is restricted, but the known spell you get from MI is a garden variety known spell. No restrictions. You can cast it and up cast it with any spell slot you have from any class as per the multiclassing rules. Your casting ability for the MI spell is tied to the class from which you picked the spell (sometimes it makes a difference), and you can't use a spellcasting focus to substitute for Material components when casting it.

Bardo.

The multiclass rules don't work like that. PHB, page 164: "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually." In the case of a Wizard with Bless, he knows a Cleric spell but does not have the ability to prepare it, nor the Cleric Spellcasting ability to spontaneously cast it. On top of that, Multiclass rules don't apply if you are single-class, where this situation is just as likely to crop up. So if you're saying that the Multiclass rules make it possible, then what you are arguing is that a single-class Wizard with a Cleric spell can't cast the spell from slots (because he doesn't use Multiclass rules) but if he becomes a multiclass Wizard/Sorcerer then suddenly he can. It doesn't work like that.

The errata clears up one specific situation: I'm an Eldritch Knight with Magic Initiate: Wizard, who took Shield as his 1st level spell casting. The feat says that if I cast that spell, then I can't cast that spell again until I take a long rest. Pre-errata, I could have all my Eldritch Knight spell slots still available and not technically be able to cast Shield again, because the specific rules on the Feat say that I can't cast that spell again until I take a long rest. The errata just says the restriction on casting Shield again only applies to the single casting given by the feat; if I have another legitimate way to cast Shield again, I can do so.

[Arial Black]

The problem with JC's ruling is that it is counter to how the rest of the game works.

In 5E, if you 'know' a spell, then you may use any slot you have to cast it (as long as the slot is at least the level of the spell). In fact, the slots you have are just 'slots'; not 'cleric slots' or 'wizard slots', just 'slots'.

This is why they had to errata the paladin's Divine Smite: it originally said that you could use your 'paladin spell slots' to power Divine Smite, but it was pointed out that a multiclass paladin/sorcerer (for example) doesn't have one set of 'paladin slots' and a different set of 'sorcerer slots', just one set of 'slots' that can be used to cast any spell they know/have prepared.

Even though Pact Magic slots are kept separate from Spellcasting slots, a multiclass paladin/warlock (for example) can use either kind of slot to cast any spell he knows or has prepared. The slots don't care about where the spell comes from, just that you know it or have it prepared.

So they had to errata the line in Divine Smite to change 'paladin spell slots' to just 'spell slots', because slots are not tied to spells of any particular class.

To be consistent with the way 5E works, if you get to 'know' a spell by any means, then you can use whatever slots you have to cast it. The Sage Advice on Magic Initiate is inconsistent with 5E!

This reminds me of the ruling about Great Weapon Fighting. The way it is written allows all dice of damage from that attack to be re-rolled on 1 or 2, whether they are from Sneak Attack or Divine Smite or Flame Tongue or whatever. This is how critical hits work, and the language of GWF is identical to the wording for crits. How could it work differently?

So, I suggest that (for both Magic Initiate and Great Weapon Fighting) you ignore what Sage Advice says about them, and just follow the way 5E works as written. As it happens, the game is better when these two things are run that way.

[CNagy]

The problem with JC's ruling is that it is counter to how the rest of the game works.

In 5E, if you 'know' a spell, then you may use any slot you have to cast it (as long as the slot is at least the level of the spell). In fact, the slots you have are just 'slots'; not 'cleric slots' or 'wizard slots', just 'slots'.

Except no, it doesn't run counter to how the rest of the game works. How the game works boils down to this: there are general rules and there are specific rules, and specific rules override general rules. That's it. Everything falls into that framework.

So while you don't have "cleric slots" and "wizard slots" what you do have are cleric spells and wizard spells. You've also got cleric spellcasting and wizard spellcasting, and they aren't the same thing. The Paladin Smite errata doesn't reflect the situation: the reason you can't cast Shield using your spell slots as a Cleric isn't because you need Wizard slots, it's because you need the Wizard class feature Spellcasting. With the prepared spellcasters, you've got the additional problem of the fact that the Magic Initiate feat says that you learn the spell, not that you can prepare the spell. If it's a Wizard spell and you are a Wizard, not a problem; your Spellcasting feature allows you to prepare Wizard spells you know. If you're a Cleric? Sorry, your Spellcasting feature allows you to prepare Cleric spells from the Cleric spell list, not "spells you know."

WotC's mistake was to make all of the class features have the same name (except Pact Magic, which they got right for a different reason) but different descriptions. Wizardry, Sorcery, Song Magic, etc, would drive it home a little more clearly that these are not interchangeable. To give a book example: the Bard's Magical Secrets. Why does it specify that the spells you choose with it count as Bard spells? Because without that, you wouldn't be able to cast them with Bard Spellcasting.

[Arial Black]

Why does it specify that the spells you choose with it count as Bard spells? Because without that, you wouldn't be able to cast them with Bard Spellcasting.

No, it's so that you use Cha as your casting stat, no matter which class list the spell comes from and what the casting stat would usually be.

[RSP]

The game is very well balanced and makes PCs make choices for their characters. The feat works as JC stated.

It's not like there's no way, aside from "forgetting JC's ruling," to acquire 1st level spells from a class list; take a dip in that class if it's important enough.

Or houserule it if you're the DM. The world won't end, but you will have slightly shifted how the game is balanced.

A similar situation may be a Monk taking Martial Adept and then wanting to perform his Manuevers using his Ki. Will it break the game? No, you're still operating off of the cost of getting a feat and an ability tied to a limited resource. You did however, create a rule that benefits one class/character over another.

[odigity]

there are general rules and there are specific rules, and specific rules override general rules. That's it. Everything falls into that framework.

Cascading rules based on specificity is not a "framework", it's simply a basic design pattern.

SRD is a framework. GURPs is a framework.


WotC's mistake was to make all of the class features have the same name (except Pact Magic, which they got right for a different reason) but different descriptions. Wizardry, Sorcery, Song Magic, etc, would drive it home a little more clearly that these are not interchangeable.

I agree. I really wish they had done that.

[bardo]

The errata clears up one specific situation: I'm an Eldritch Knight with Magic Initiate: Wizard, who took Shield as his 1st level spell casting. The feat says that if I cast that spell, then I can't cast that spell again until I take a long rest. Pre-errata, I could have all my Eldritch Knight spell slots still available and not technically be able to cast Shield again, because the specific rules on the Feat say that I can't cast that spell again until I take a long rest. The errata just says the restriction on casting Shield again only applies to the single casting given by the feat; if I have another legitimate way to cast Shield again, I can do so.

Errata to clarify that taking a feat doesn't eliminate class features? What sort of nonsense is this?!

Happy coincidence, the Drow Magic trait is quite similar to the Magic Initiate in that they both give access to cantrips and a once per day casting of a 1st level spell, and they both have errata. Let's compare and contrast:

Drow Magic says "When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the faerie fire spell once per day." And the errata clarifies: once per day means you must finish a long rest to cast the spell again with the trait.

Magic Initiate says: "You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again." And the errata clarifies: The feat's limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat.

According to your interpretation of the Magic Initiate errata, there should have been a similar errata for Drow Magic. Otherwise a Drow couldn't "technically" cast Faerie Fire as a Druid. Either WotC made a pretty big booboo on a 1-page errata, or, more likely, your interpretation is plain wrong.

The vital difference is that Drow Magic gives you a casting, whereas Magic Initiate gives you a known spell and a casting. Note that Magic Initiate says "you learn that spell" (contrast Drow Magic doesn't say learn). Learn means you get a known spell. Known spell means you can cast it more often and at higher levels if you have the spell slots for it. That's what the errata says, the restrictions (once per day at level 1) apply only to the single casting given by the feat, go nuts with all the other castings.

Bardo.

[CNagy]

Errata to clarify that taking a feat doesn't eliminate class features? What sort of nonsense is this?!

Happy coincidence, the Drow Magic trait is quite similar to the Magic Initiate in that they both give access to cantrips and a once per day casting of a 1st level spell, and they both have errata. Let's compare and contrast:

Drow Magic says "When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the faerie fire spell once per day." And the errata clarifies: once per day means you must finish a long rest to cast the spell again with the trait.

Magic Initiate says: "You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again." And the errata clarifies: The feat's limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat.

According to your interpretation of the Magic Initiate errata, there should have been a similar errata for Drow Magic. Otherwise a Drow couldn't "technically" cast Faerie Fire as a Druid. Either WotC made a pretty big booboo on a 1-page errata, or, more likely, your interpretation is plain wrong.

The vital difference is that Drow Magic gives you a casting, whereas Magic Initiate gives you a known spell and a casting. Note that Magic Initiate says "you learn that spell" (contrast Drow Magic doesn't say learn). Learn means you get a known spell. Known spell means you can cast it more often and at higher levels if you have the spell slots for it. That's what the errata says, the restrictions (once per day at level 1) apply only to the single casting given by the feat, go nuts with all the other castings.

Bardo.

No. The vital difference is that Drow Magic does not stipulate that you cannot cast that spell again within a certain time period. It permits you to cast the spell 1/day. It does not then forbid you from casting that spell again, you've merely expended the 1/day use that the Drow Magic racial feature gives you.

Magic Initiate, as originally written, explicitly forbids you from casting that spell again until you've rested for 8 hours. And because it is a feat, which is a specific rule, it overruled normal spellcasting rules, which are general rules. We know that the forbiddance is the important difference, because that is what is targeted by the errata.

This makes the second time that you've declared some completely irrelevant example as representative of why the Magic Initiate errata works the way you suppose, which calls into question your ability to parse the rules as written. On my side, there is the Sage Advice making the ruling clear, and the fact that the errata on Magic Initiate does not address the core reason that you can't use typically use the spell with your caster slots: you've learned an X class spell, and you do not have the X class spellcasting feature (unless you do, in which case you can.)

[bardo]

No. The vital difference is that Drow Magic does not stipulate that you cannot cast that spell again within a certain time period. It permits you to cast the spell 1/day. It does not then forbid you from casting that spell again, you've merely expended the 1/day use that the Drow Magic racial feature gives you.

Magic Initiate, as originally written, explicitly forbids you from casting that spell again until you've rested for 8 hours. And because it is a feat, which is a specific rule, it overruled normal spellcasting rules, which are general rules. We know that the forbiddance is the important difference, because that is what is targeted by the errata.

This makes the second time that you've declared some completely irrelevant example as representative of why the Magic Initiate errata works the way you suppose, which calls into question your ability to parse the rules as written. On my side, there is the Sage Advice making the ruling clear, and the fact that the errata on Magic Initiate does not address the core reason that you can't use typically use the spell with your caster slots: you've learned an X class spell, and you do not have the X class spellcasting feature (unless you do, in which case you can.)

Where exactly in the book does it say I must have X class spellcasting feature to cast an X class spell? Honest question. I looked for it but couldn't find it.

The only relevant thing I found was in Chapter 10 (magic). It says to cast a spell you need to "have the spell firmly fixed in mind" and an unused spell slot of an appropriate level. Preparing a spell would be one way of fixing it in one's mind. Learning a spell would be another. Notice that learn is the specific word used when a Bard/Ranger/Sorcerer/etc. reaches a new level, they learn new spells.

My case remains that you are able to use your spell slots to cast the spell you learned from the Magic Initiate feat, as per the general rule in Chapter 10 and the errata clarifying that the restriction listed in the feat (cast at 1st level and only once per long rest) applies only to the casting given by the feat.

So, again, where is that rule that says I must have X class spellcasting feature to cast an X class spell? I will absolutely reverse my position 180 degrees if you can show me such a rule in the book.

Bardo.

[RSP]

I believe the rule you're looking for is actually listed in each class' spellcasting feature description. It says something along the lines of "you can cast cleric spells" with the class listed being dependent on the class you're looking at, obviously. So you wouldn't be able to cast a Wizard spell you obtained from MI with your Cleric slots because it's not a "Cleric spell."

I believe the multiclass rules have language indicating you can use your multiclass slots for the classes that give you the spellcasting feature, but I'm away from the book right now and don't have a direct quote available, but if so, I think it would likewise deter the additional MI castings.

[bardo]

I believe the rule you're looking for is actually listed in each class' spellcasting feature description. It says something along the lines of "you can cast cleric spells" with the class listed being dependent on the class you're looking at, obviously. So you wouldn't be able to cast a Wizard spell you obtained from MI with your Cleric slots because it's not a "Cleric spell."

I believe the multiclass rules have language indicating you can use your multiclass slots for the classes that give you the spellcasting feature, but I'm away from the book right now and don't have a direct quote available, but if so, I think it would likewise deter the additional MI castings.

Still not seeing it.



SPELL SLOTS

The Bard table shows how many spell slots you have to
cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of
these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level
or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you
finish a long rest.


It's about the same text for other classes. Most classes say "your spells of 1st level and higher", which doesn't sound like it would exclude the spell learned from Magic Initiate or any other spell for that matter. The Sorcerer class does say "your sorcerer spells", puzzling.

Bardo.

[RSP]

Immediately under the word "Spellcasting" in the Cleric section it states "As a conduit for divine power, you can cast Cleric spells."

Just Wizard and it does say something different, however, in the section describing preparing spells, titled Preparing And Casting Spells, it states "You prepare the list of Wizard spells that are available to you to cast. To do so, choose a number of Wizard spells from your spell book equal to your Intelligence modifier + your Wizard level."

Away from book so going off of the basic rules PDF but you get the picture. You already found that Sorcerer says something similar. That's at least 3 classes that state you can only cast class list spells and as such, RAW, would not be able to use their spellcasting feature for additional uses of Magic Initiate. I'm pretty sure all the classes say something similar (if not, then that class would be able to cast any spell from any class list, which clearly is not the intent)

Again, just pointing out the rule you were looking for, that you must cast x class spells if x class, is listed within each class' section where it describes how they get spells.

[bardo]

Immediately under the word "Spellcasting" in the Cleric section it states "As a conduit for divine power, you can cast Cleric spells."

Ah! I wasn't looking at Cleric, but yes, cleric spellcasting feature says it's restricted to cleric spells. Thank you! In some of the other classes the spellcasting feature just says you can "cast spells".

So wouldn't the answer to the Magic Initiate question be "it depends" ?

A cleric wouldn't be able to use their cleric spellcasting feature to cast the MI spell. But a bard, druid, EK, ranger, AT, possibly others whose spellcasting features don't limit them to spells of a particular class, would be able to cast the MI spell using spell slots.

Bardo.

[RSP]

I don't have the inclination to go through each classes features, but the RAW would be whether or not the feature indicated the spells were class-based.

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure AT and EK both specify the Wizard list but again, not going to go through each section.

Hope this helps!