Psychic Warrior(or other psionic gishs) with Astral Construct?

[danielxcutter]

Astral Construct is a pretty neat power, and it's really useful for any squishy Psion or Wilder. However, I'm not sure how useful it will be for much less squishy psionic classes, such as Psychic Warriors. Obviously it's never going to be useless, but is it worth taking Expanded Knowledge? I presume Lurks and Psychic Rogues will benefit from it a lot, as they can set up flanking positions in addition to the common usage of using them as meatshields.

But what about Psychic Warriors? They don't get sneak attacks and they're already tough as nails, but the level of the constructs depend on manifester level, not maximum power level, so you could make one just as powerful as any full-manifesting character. And two beatsticks are better than one.

Part of the reason I want to know this is because I have a OotS-style comic in the works that has a Psychic Warrior as the main protagonist. He has the Mantled Warrior ACF, but the Creation mantle doesn't fit his character so he'll have to spend a feat to get it. I know that it's not that optimal, but sub-optimal doesn't equal unplayable, plus I'm just curious if it would work and how, comic or no comic.

[Fizban]

Taking Expanded Knowledge for Astral Construct is always optimized, it's better than basically any summoner that's not pulling wacky alternate monsters out of random books, at least before the nerf. The bigger question is if it's worth actually manifesting: Psywars have very low pp and are supposed to rely on lower cost powers for buffs/mobility. The constructs have more hp than even Vigor though, and any attacks directed at them instead of you might as well be extra hit points, even if they aren't doing a good job of clogging up the field or dealing damage.

With the nerf, well you can't be a dedicated summoner anymore but it's still better than the standard summon spells and Psywar isn't supposed to be a dedicated caster anyway.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Depending on starting level, it's much more effective optimization-wise to purchase astral construct as a power known via psychic chirurgery from another character with both of those powers known. Check the prices for spellcasting services in the PHB.

[danielxcutter]

Taking Expanded Knowledge for Astral Construct is always optimized, it's better than basically any summoner that's not pulling wacky alternate monsters out of random books, at least before the nerf. The bigger question is if it's worth actually manifesting: Psywars have very low pp and are supposed to rely on lower cost powers for buffs/mobility. The constructs have more hp than even Vigor though, and any attacks directed at them instead of you might as well be extra hit points, even if they aren't doing a good job of clogging up the field or dealing damage.

With the nerf, well you can't be a dedicated summoner anymore but it's still better than the standard summon spells and Psywar isn't supposed to be a dedicated caster anyway.

From what I heard, that nerf was made by someone who was annoyed at one of his players at a game he was DMing using Wild Surge to make really powerful Astral Constructs. Which is stupid because doing things that should be way beyond your ML is basically why you're playing a Wilder in the first place. In other words, this comic is going to use the pre-nerf version. And while it's really expensive, there are situations where it might be useful, especially at high levels. Plus, awesomeness!


Depending on starting level, it's much more effective optimization-wise to purchase astral construct as a power known via psychic chirurgery from another character with both of those powers known. Check the prices for spellcasting services in the PHB.

But story-wise it makes more sense for him to learn it on his own. Psychic Chirurgery is a 9th-level Seer power, which makes it rarer than Miracle or Wish, and it could be called out as a Deus Ex Machina if done badly. The comic setting might be high-magic but it's not that high.

[Lord Haart]

Battle buddies are great; battle buddies who don't have to worry about their own safety, double so. And Astral Constructs are great battle buddies, arguably stronger (if less i've-got-these-spells-by-proxies optimisable) than Summon Monster/Nature Ally spells, who can also, say, turn into a flying semi-mounts if you have enough ML for appropriate options. They're great and definitely useful for any full-ML or near-full-ML build, and like a lot of psionic powers are easily refluffable to fit a lot of possible concepts (though that's not a problem for you as you use the usual psionic fluff).
And in terms of webcomic writing, a recurring allied entity/group of entities can have a lot of uses. Remember Blackwing from that comic on the left side of the forum?

Go for it.

[danielxcutter]

And in terms of webcomic writing, a recurring allied entity/group of entities can have a lot of uses. Remember Blackwing from that comic on the left side of the forum?

Go for it.

Eh, don't think Astral Constructs fit that, since they're basically mindless automations. On the other hand, the party will include a Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster, a Monk/Druid/Sacred Fist, and a Cleric. So...

Good guy: We'll stop you!

Bad guy: Oh yeah? You and what army?

*summoned animals, outsiders, monsters, and constructs surround bad guy*

Bad guy: Oh. That army.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you're expending the resources for having astral constructs as a psychic warrior, you should also take the Durable Construct feat, from Hyperconscious, and Extend Power. Now they last 20 minutes instead of 1 round per level. Takes three feats, but it saves you a ton of power points if you use them wisely, and since psywars use primarily buff powers, you'll want Extend Power anyway.

You should also look into Linked Power, from CPsi, as that allows you to manifest astral construct as a standard/move/swift/immediate action, depending on what you Link it to, though you'll still have to wait until next round to get it. The nicest thing about it is that once you've got a Linked power in play, you no longer have to concentrate on it, meaning you can take other actions and you don't have to worry about it fizzling if someone interrupts your concentration. Linked Power is another great feat for a psywar, allowing you to buff up via swifts and immediates without worrying about eating up your attack and move actions.

[Lord Haart]

Eh, don't think Astral Constructs fit that, since they're basically mindless automations.

Well, first, mindless things can still be mascots and/or provide for an occasional fluffy interaction. And second, in this case, they're PSYCHIC mindless automatons made by and basically (ectoplasm-shmectoplasm, it's what shapes them that matters) from PCHero's own mind. I see here a lot of potential for exploring things about said mind that don't surface much othervise; doubly so for a visual medium. The way they look compared to other manifesters' constructs can speak tons by itself, and PCHero's reaction to it almost as much as well.

*remembers that one Spider-Man the Animated Series (90's one) episode in which Doctor Doom basically grabbed reality-warping powers, actually became a honest-to-himself benevolent ruler who ruled over an utopic society, but due to him not being able to concentrate on all that power all the time — humans need sleep and so on — he unwittingly kept spawning weird gargoyle-demons out of his subconscious*

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, first, mindless things can still be mascots and/or provide for an occasional fluffy interaction. And second, in this case, they're PSYCHIC mindless automatons made by and basically (ectoplasm-shmectoplasm, it's what shapes them that matters) from PCHero's own mind. I see here a lot of potential for exploring things about said mind that don't surface much othervise; doubly so for a visual medium. The way they look compared to other manifesters' constructs can speak tons by itself, and PCHero's reaction to it almost as much as well.

*remembers that one Spider-Man the Animated Series (90's one) episode in which Doctor Doom basically grabbed reality-warping powers, actually became a honest-to-himself benevolent ruler who ruled over an utopic society, but due to him not being able to concentrate on all that power all the time — humans need sleep and so on — he unwittingly kept spawning weird gargoyle-demons out of his subconscious*So, what, the astral constructs themselves are actually mindless, but they have a spark of the psywar's mind animating them and so they act like they're sapient, but they're actually facets of the psywar's subconscious given form and act accordingly?

Ooh. That's neat.

[Soranar]

To optimize astral construct on a psychic warrior you'd need the following

craft dorje
dorje mastery

this bypasses the whole issue of PP , you just need your dorje and you manifest at +4 manifester level

if you combine this with the constructor PrC you're better at astral construct than a wilder

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Use the psionic crafting rules from the MIC to make yourself a bunch of psionic arcanist gloves -- or just add additional charges by multiplying the cost. (Arcanist gloves are also from the MIC.) They're cheap, and they'll add +2 to the ML of any 1st level power manifested with them -- including astral construct. Feel free to psionicize any other CL-boosting items as well, such an orange ioun stone, metamagic rods bound to your hands chakra (add to the gloves above), and so on. The higher your ML, the better your vegan meatshields have the potential to be. You can also take the Metapower feat for Linked Power + synchronicity. Since you'll always want to Link synchronicity anyway, reducing its cost (and the cost of whatever power is Linked to it -- like astral construct *wink wink*) is a definite plus.

[Cerefel]

Isn't there a feat somewhere that lets you use Astral Construct as a self-buff instead of a summon?


EDIT: The feat is Skin of the Construct from CPsi

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You might also want to check this out: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20020727c


Isn't there a feat somewhere that lets you use Astral Construct as a self-buff instead of a summon?Well, if you can bind items to your chakras (via Magic of Incarnum), Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces) gives you a 1st level menu ability of your choice. Skin of the Construct is a crappy feat from CPsi that lets you absorb a construct for 1 round/lvl.

There are also options in Untapped Potential, as well.

[Kaje]

In this BG thread they discuss using astral construct as a power suit.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0

[danielxcutter]

Well, first, mindless things can still be mascots and/or provide for an occasional fluffy interaction. And second, in this case, they're PSYCHIC mindless automatons made by and basically (ectoplasm-shmectoplasm, it's what shapes them that matters) from PCHero's own mind. I see here a lot of potential for exploring things about said mind that don't surface much othervise; doubly so for a visual medium. The way they look compared to other manifesters' constructs can speak tons by itself, and PCHero's reaction to it almost as much as well.

*remembers that one Spider-Man the Animated Series (90's one) episode in which Doctor Doom basically grabbed reality-warping powers, actually became a honest-to-himself benevolent ruler who ruled over an utopic society, but due to him not being able to concentrate on all that power all the time — humans need sleep and so on — he unwittingly kept spawning weird gargoyle-demons out of his subconscious*

Heh... this just gave me an idea for a story point...


In this BG thread they discuss using astral construct as a power suit.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10279.0

Ectoskeleton (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/ectoskeleton) is really cool, but I'm not sure if it's going to fit my character. Still a great idea for a secondary character, though!