How epic is the Setting of the Overlord Light Novel?

[Schattenbach]

Hello,

while rereading some stuff about the Overlord Light Novel (that one that got is anime a while ago) thar uses lots of DnD references and material, I've started to ponder about how epic the original YGGDRASIL (the virtual MMORPG) actually was in terms of epic stuff and character levels when compared to DnD 3.5 (with DM/GM in place that keeps people from breakng the sandbox to pieces).

While the character level there goes up to at least 100 (not including all those World-class bosses), how do they (and their setting) actually compare to epic characters? For example, around what level would they be (if I had to guess ... maybe somewhere between 30th or 40th level)?

[MisterKaws]

Yup, around that much.

Yggdrasil's class system, as far as I understood it, is a system where you can take base classes only up to a certain level, and from there on, you either take other base classes, or just fill in with a ton of prestige classes. As far as I understood, it looks like the power progression is around three times slower than D&D characters, but that kinda makes sense.

[Braininthejar2]

I remember a spell that disabled all immunities to death effects in the area, causing the wail of the banshee to kill the soil beneath Ainz's feet.

I don't think I've ever made a campaign that went that far with levels.

[Prime32]

The LNs mention how the spell progression goes. Of note, spellcasters get three spells known per level, and use the Spell Points system. Ainz can learn extra spells from scrolls, but this is a PrC ability for him. Epic spells are still uses-per day. Cantrips do not exist (they're replaced by class features), but lv10 spells do. This isn't a case of all spells being bumped up a level, since whenever they reference a spell that exists in D&D its level is unchanged.



Spell Level
YGGDRASIL
D&D 3.5


0th
-
1


1st
1
1


2nd
8
3~4


3rd
15
5~6


4th
22
7~8


5th
29
9~10


6th
36
11~12


7th
42
13~14


8th
49
15~16


9th
56
17~18


10th
63
-


Epic 1/day
70
-


Epic 2/day
80
21


Epic 3/day
90
27


Epic 4/day
100
37



A lv100 YGGDRASIL character like Ainz or the Floor Guardians seems equivalent to a D&D 3.5 character of either lv37 or lv47 (the latter assuming a house rule that epic spells start at 1/day rather than 2/day). Before lv70 each YGGDRASIL level corresponds to about 31/2 D&D levels. Once you go epic they correspond about 1:1.

EDIT:
I remember a spell that disabled all immunities to death effects in the area, causing the wail of the banshee to kill the soil beneath Ainz's feet.
"The Goal of All Life is Death" is a class feature from a PrC with incredibly inane requirements (in D&D terms something like the ability to cast necromancy spells of lv0-9, Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), the entire Corpsecrafter line, 3 levels in Lich Paragon, etc.). It has a long cooldown, and adds a delay before the modified spell takes effect. According to Ainz it was far from an auto-win button in YGGDRASIL since high-level combat was rocket tag anyway - everyone fought in groups and had auto-resurrection items, and it's implied that the spell would fail if Ainz were killed before the timer ran out.

[Nettlekid]

I only just watched the anime series the other night so I don't have too much to contribute, but something that really stood out to me were the solid references to D&D. The aforementioned Wail of the Banshee is one, niche spells like Delay Teleportation, iconic spells like Acid Arrow, Ainz's summoning of a Cadaver Collector, the D&D-esque paranoia of using a dozen spells to hide your use of Scry and Die tactics, or any use of Twin or Maximize or similar Metamagic. It really sold me on the series wanting to appeal to a nerdy audience. That's exactly the kind of thing that soured me on Stranger Things from the get-go. When Demogorgon is treated like a random encounter, and the kid's rolling to hit with a Fireball. It's annoying when D&D is used as a trope to showcase who the lovable nerds are but the writers didn't want to bother getting it right. But Overlord really did a good job, and it had even less reason to.

[SangoProduction]

I only just watched the anime series the other night so I don't have too much to contribute, but something that really stood out to me were the solid references to D&D. The aforementioned Wail of the Banshee is one, niche spells like Delay Teleportation, iconic spells like Acid Arrow, Ainz's summoning of a Cadaver Collector, the D&D-esque paranoia of using a dozen spells to hide your use of Scry and Die tactics, or any use of Twin or Maximize or similar Metamagic. It really sold me on the series wanting to appeal to a nerdy audience. That's exactly the kind of thing that soured me on Stranger Things from the get-go. When Demogorgon is treated like a random encounter, and the kid's rolling to hit with a Fireball. It's annoying when D&D is used as a trope to showcase who the lovable nerds are but the writers didn't want to bother getting it right. But Overlord really did a good job, and it had even less reason to.

Well, in 4e, fireball is an attack roll. So, not technically incorrect to D&D.

[Nettlekid]

Well, in 4e, fireball is an attack roll. So, not technically incorrect to D&D.

It's set in the 80s though, so it wasn't 4e. It was most probably AD&D.

[Tuvarkz]

Honestly, it's more about some of the characters being epic-tier than the setting being so.
It's mentioned that humanoids that know spells above 3rd level are extremely rare, and the 6th is the very upper limit of their potential.


The only given exception insofar is PDL, but PDL is on the 60-80 level range in Yggdrasil power levels I believe, which means the strongest being in the NW outside of AOG's forces might not even be epic if we go by prime's table.


Also, regarding classes and stuff: Ainz was doing a RP build until he accidentally stumbled upon the Overlord class, given how apparently a 'feature' of the game was only a very minimal amount of information available, to the point where information gathering/managing had a significant value.

[Braininthejar2]

It's set in the 80s though, so it wasn't 4e. It was most probably AD&D.

Isn't it set in the near future, with the whole virtual reality thing?

Also, I heard a rumor that the author was a D&D player, and wrote the manga out of frustration when his regular group quit on him.

[Nettlekid]

Isn't it set in the near future, with the whole virtual reality thing?

Also, I heard a rumor that the author was a D&D player, and wrote the manga out of frustration when his regular group quit on him.

Sorry, I brought the thread on a bit of a tangent, it was the new Netflix series Stranger Things that was set in the 80s, and I was comparing their use of "D&D to prove they're nerds" to Overlord's mention of D&D terms.

[Segev]

The art and text of the Stranger Things D&D books does, in fact, indicate that it's 1e AD&D.

I accept that the nerd kids might be playing with a ton of house rules. Demogorgon being offed by a fireball indicates as much by itself!

[MisterKaws]

The art and text of the Stranger Things D&D books does, in fact, indicate that it's 1e AD&D.

I accept that the nerd kids might be playing with a ton of house rules. Demogorgon being offed by a fireball indicates as much by itself!

Well, I could accept Demogorgon being offed by an Enhanced Twin Admixtured Maximized Empowered Consecrated Searing Blistering Fiery Invisible Irresistible Fireball, in all honesty. Though, that'd probably take a god of magic or a Tome Dragon...

[Lorddenorstrus]

The LNs mention how the spell progression goes. Of note, spellcasters get three spells known per level, and use the Spell Points system. Ainz can learn extra spells from scrolls, but this is a PrC ability for him. Epic spells are still uses-per day. Cantrips do not exist (they're replaced by class features), but lv10 spells do. This isn't a case of all spells being bumped up a level, since whenever they reference a spell that exists in D&D its level is unchanged.



Spell Level
YGGDRASIL
D&D 3.5


0th
-
1


1st
1
1


2nd
8
3~4


3rd
15
5~6


4th
22
7~8


5th
29
9~10


6th
36
11~12


7th
42
13~14


8th
49
15~16


9th
56
17~18


10th
63
-


Epic 1/day
70
-


Epic 2/day
80
21


Epic 3/day
90
27


Epic 4/day
100
37



A lv100 YGGDRASIL character like Ainz or the Floor Guardians seems equivalent to a D&D 3.5 character of either lv37 or lv47 (the latter assuming a house rule that epic spells start at 1/day rather than 2/day). Before lv70 each YGGDRASIL level corresponds to about 31/2 D&D levels. Once you go epic they correspond about 1:1.

EDIT:
"The Goal of All Life is Death" is a class feature from a PrC with incredibly inane requirements (in D&D terms something like the ability to cast necromancy spells of lv0-9, Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), the entire Corpsecrafter line, 3 levels in Lich Paragon, etc.). It has a long cooldown, and adds a delay before the modified spell takes effect. According to Ainz it was far from an auto-win button in YGGDRASIL since high-level combat was rocket tag anyway - everyone fought in groups and had auto-resurrection items, and it's implied that the spell would fail if Ainz were killed before the timer ran out.


Well, one I love the graph. Greatly shows the level equivalency for D&D 3.5 On the flipside it somewhat depresses me. I've started work on making an Overlord setting Ainz and Co included and I didn't want to touch Epic if at all possible because the book disgusts me. Is.. it even possible to try and scale the setting to squeeze into 1-20?

[Prime32]

Also, regarding classes and stuff: Ainz was doing a RP build until he accidentally stumbled upon the Overlord class, given how apparently a 'feature' of the game was only a very minimal amount of information available, to the point where information gathering/managing had a significant value.Overlord is a racial class, a followup for Elder Lich (which is itself a followup for Skeletal Mage). The secret class you're thinking of is Eclipse.

And on the topic of classes...

In YGGDRASIL, powerful jobs would be given weaknesses and handicaps in order to balance the game. One of the few handicaps given to Shalltear was 「Blood Frenzy」, the more blood her body was getting covered in, the stronger her urge to slaughter would become. Although her combat strength would increase, it came at the price of losing control over her mind. Ainz chose Shalltear, who might ignore orders or even lose control, for this mission by using the process of elimination.

It was a skill called 「Blood Pool」 from one of Shalltear’s classes, [Blood Drinker]. By storing blood drawn from fallen enemies, it allowed the user to create a ball of magical energy that could later be used for other purposes. Also, by drawing its power, one could use magic augmentation skills without spending MP.
Please turn to page 63 of your copy of Book of Vile Darkness. I'll wait. :smalltongue:


I heard a rumor that the author was a D&D player, and wrote the manga out of frustration when his regular group quit on him.Light novel. There's a manga adaptation, but it cuts out a lot of content and changes the tone of things considerably.

Maruyama is known to have been one of the players for the Log Horizon TTRPG Replay. His group even makes cameos in the anime of that series (he's the bald guy on the left) (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/log-horizon/images/e/e3/Trpg_gang.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141004151850).

[Segev]

Well, I could accept Demogorgon being offed by an Enhanced Twin Admixtured Maximized Empowered Consecrated Searing Blistering Fiery Invisible Irresistible Fireball, in all honesty. Though, that'd probably take a god of magic or a Tome Dragon...

Those are inventions of 3e, though, so...not likely present in the kids' game in Stranger Things. :smallwink:

Unless El's running and using her psychic powers to see the future to provide the rules for 3e.

[Extra Anchovies]

The art and text of the Stranger Things D&D books does, in fact, indicate that it's 1e AD&D.

I accept that the nerd kids might be playing with a ton of house rules. Demogorgon being offed by a fireball indicates as much by itself!

They're also, what, twelve years old? I remember the D&D I played with my friends at that age, and it was anything but rules-adherent. Misremembered and/or ad-libbed rules was the name of the game, and with AD&D 1st it'd probably be even worse given how much of an organizational mess those books are.

[Mordaedil]

Isn't it set in the near future, with the whole virtual reality thing?

Also, I heard a rumor that the author was a D&D player, and wrote the manga out of frustration when his regular group quit on him.

Yeah, he also has fond memories of playing Baldur's Gate and NWN. Google translate and Twitter are excellent tools for bridging the culture gap.

I should mention you need to know a bit of Japanese in order to use Google Translate effectively though, otherwise you might get very awkward sentences that are on par with "people die when they are killed" instead of something sensible.

[Nettlekid]

I should mention you need to know a bit of Japanese in order to use Google Translate effectively though, otherwise you might get very awkward sentences that are on par with "people die when they are killed" instead of something sensible.

I've never understood why people think that line, "people die when they are killed," is so ridiculous. Out of context it may be, on the same lines as "water is wet," but that's from Fate/Stay Night when Shirou is choosing to remove the shards of the scabbard Avalon from his body that Kiritsugu implanted to keep him alive, and which have been regenerating him from what should have been lethal injuries. He had been killed and not died, and he's saying that that's not how the world should be. Because people die when they are killed. In context it fits the situation pretty precisely.

[Mordaedil]

It's just ridiculous because it's a Japanese turn of phrase translated very directly instead of picking a fitting english idiom for the situation. "People are fragile beings" or "that guy is nearly invincible" are more fitting uses of the phrase. It's only unfitting in that it's a lazy translator behind a keyboard.