Guns and a Modern Setting

[Einselar]

Greetings folks.

I'm about to start a modern Pathfinder game, and I'm trying to find rules for guns past those of WWII. I've searched the SRD for a few hours every day now, and while I've learned facinating and obscure things, I haven't found anything relevant. Has anyone found a 3rd party that adds modern guns? If I MUST use homebrew I will, but I want to save that as a last resort, because in my experience, "balanced" and "homebrew" are oxymorons.

Thanks for your help!

[legomaster00156]

I would suggest using Pathfinder's WWII (Modern) firearms (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms/modern-firearms) as a baseline, then consulting d20 Modern's firearms (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/weapons.html#rangedweapons) and modifying as needed to suit the balance needs of your campaign.

[Einselar]

Thank you! We'll be using that. I appreciate the help!

[Zanos]

I highly recommend changing the pathfinder firearms to not hit touch AC.

[dascarletm]

There is also this (http://www.d20modernpf.com/).

[Tuvarkz]

I would suggest using Pathfinder's WWII (Modern) firearms (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms/modern-firearms) as a baseline, then consulting d20 Modern's firearms (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/weapons.html#rangedweapons) and modifying as needed to suit the balance needs of your campaign.

Strongly against using the base PF modern firearms, or at least the automatic ones (They can get really crazy with some class features, particularly because firing so many bullets per round each with +Dex or else to damage will amount to incomparable DPR). Iirc the Nagant revolver and the Mosin Nagant have the same statlines as their advanced firearms equivalent, so those two are fine.

[Zanos]

The automatic weapon quality doesn't allow you to fire multiple shots at a single target, it allows you to target a line up to the weapons ranges at a -2 penalty to all attack rolls. You also can't really use the HMG unmounted. Seriously good, but not busted.

The flamethrower you need to look out for on the PF weapons though. 60 foot line of 4d6 fire damage for 800gp? Yes please. Will break low level encounters, probably.

[bookkeeping guy]

You know you wouldn't have to do just a WWII setting.

You could do something like a cops vs gangs or dystopian feudal re-emergence thing too.

[Geddy2112]

I highly recommend changing the pathfinder firearms to not hit touch AC.

If you do go keep firearms hitting touch AC, I suggest armor as damage reduction (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/armorAsDamageReduction.html) to keep armor relevant.

[Mordaedil]

Wouldn't kevlar be kinda just that? Are there rules for kevlar armor?

[Einselar]

I don't know of any rules for Kevlar, but if there are that'd be interesting.... I'm just resolving damage normally and letting my players pick any armor they choose, then fluff it to be modern.

Flame thrower is out of the question. They are essentially on a psionic black-ops team. Flamethrowers aren't really subtle....

We're using the d20 modern firearms for now. For those of them that use firearms.... A lot of them are taking advantage of their psionics and using bows, crossbows, hell, our Aegis is using a Mindblade. The guns seem to be limited to their opponents.

[CharonsHelper]

I highly recommend changing the pathfinder firearms to not hit touch AC.

Indeed. Many people already complain about the gunslinger in normal Pathfinder games due to hitting touch AC and how it breaks many of the system's assumptions. If it's the standard weaponry - it would break the system entirely.

Frankly - I might even suggest just playing Modern d20 with some of the common tweaks. (Most notably nerfing Fast Heroes by 1 defense point - and giving tough heroes at least basic armor proficiency.)

[Zanos]

I don't know of any rules for Kevlar, but if there are that'd be interesting.... I'm just resolving damage normally and letting my players pick any armor they choose, then fluff it to be modern.
This is probably fine, honestly. Modern armor solutions have okay analogues to the old armors. Full plate is probably just full body armor with ceramic plates, limb guards, etc, where medium stuff is an over the body vest and light is just a concealable Kevlar vest. Maybe really light stuff is that kevlar clothing they make?

Shouldn't be any issues. Since the AC system assumes that hits that land on armor are completely deflected by it, as long as firearms are rolling against normal AC then this should work perfectly well.

[Necroticplague]

The automatic weapon quality doesn't allow you to fire multiple shots at a single target, it allows you to target a line up to the weapons ranges at a -2 penalty to all attack rolls. You also can't really use the HMG unmounted. Seriously good, but not busted.

It's not the Automatic quality (which is basically just a line-based version of Scatter, which usually covers more area) that allows for the 'blow em all away' levels of damage. It's having large Capacitites and speed-reload methods. Using a pistol, it's a real pain to just a basic full-attack in, because you reload after every shot, individually. With a revolver, you just need a swift action to slam 7 rounds of ammo into the cylinder. Thus, getting long attack routines goes from a massive pain to a triviality. Combined with the various things that boost up gun damage by sacrificing the accuracy they have to spare, and damage can get brutal. This gets even more vicious as you extend it to even more modern firearms, where you can quiet easily shoot off 12 rounds without having to reload (which, again, is only a swift action), 15 isn't inconceivable, and a specialist could conceivably have 25.

[Sayt]

....except that like all other weapons, firearms are bounded by base attack bonus?

How exactly do you get past 5 (from BAB) + 1(Haste) +1 (rapid shot) +3 (all three TWF feats) = 10 attacks At bab 16+?

I mean, before errata you could double this by using double barrel pistols and taking an additional -4 to hit, but a. This was errata ed out (thank god), and b. You're talking modern firearms, which don't have two barrel variants.