Greater Drow Nobility

[Death_Lord12]

So I had someone in my group say to me that the Greater Drow Nobility feat from Pathfinder is really overpowered. We play in a 3.5 game, but frequently take stuff from Pathfinder.

Is this feat overpowered?

[Red Fel]

Well, it's pretty powerful, but take it in context.

First, the feat itself gives a constant Detect Magic, plus at-will uses of Dancing Lights, Deeper Darkness, Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, and Levitate. These are potent abilities; Detect Magic, for example, is a way of detecting something that is magically invisible (or at least, detecting its aura), and you have that on all the time.

However, context matters. First, you have to be Drow. Choice made at chargen, not a problem. Second, you have to be a Drow with SLAs. That's a default, but it means you can't have traded them away for an alternate trait like Stalker, for example. Then it also requires an attribute score (Cha 13) and two prerequisite feats (Drow Nobility and Improved Drow Nobility). So, basically, you're sinking three feats, plus race selection, in order to get constant Detect Magic plus at-will uses of several SLAs.

Now, is that powerful? Potentially, very much so. At least, constant Detect Magic is. The rest, however, are contextually powerful. Having a Feather Fall SLA may be useful if you find yourself plummeting. But if you're using that SLA multiple times a day, you're probably doing something wrong; having access to it at-will is nice, but not as potent as it sounds. At-will Dancing Lights means you're never without a torch; by the time you can sink three feats into these SLAs, you can afford a torch. Deeper Darkness, while powerful, is a double-edged sword; it's fine for the character, who has Darkvision (unless you use it in dim light), but unless your party can also see in darkness, that's a problem. Not to mention that as you level, enemies with vision options become more numerous. And again, how frequently will you use it?

About the only outstanding one is Faerie Fire. When coupled with Detect Magic, which reveals magical auras in an area, Faerie Fire will basically allow you to completely bypass invisibility with a convenient one-two combination. Sense the aura but see nothing, at-will Faerie Fire, a solution presents itself. But again, this is only a major power surge if you're facing invisible targets with any frequency; otherwise, it might as well be a 1/day SLA.

In essence, the big power boost from this three-feat chain comes from a constant Detect Magic. So the real question is this: Is Detect Magic worth three feats?

[Fouredged Sword]

I say it is pretty powerful. The biggest boon is that besides being drow and having charisma 13 you don't really need anything extra. This is very much a build+ sort of option. You can stick it on a sorcerer, a fighter, a summoner... Anything really. Charisma 13 isn't hard and if you have 3 feat slots with nothing really that great to do with them it is a pretty good option.

At will levitate is also really fun.

Another thing to note is you can get access to these abilities very early. It just takes 5 feats without level prereqs so fifth level is the early cutoff for greater. Sure at 10th level unlimited levitate isn't that special, but at 5th level it is great.

NOTE - using detect magic to find moving invisible targets is harder than one thinks. The first round of looking into an area with detect magic simply returns "Magic? Yes/No." If you are moving this is all the information you get. If a party member has a magic item and walks through your senses it returns yes. You don't get a count or power until after 6 seconds and don't get school until round 3. You make for a good early warning system if you walk in front of the party, but something sneaking up behind you will blend in with the three to four Christmas trees following you.

At least this is my reading.

[Red Fel]

NOTE - using detect magic to find moving invisible targets is harder than one thinks. The first round of looking into an area with detect magic simply returns "Magic? Yes/No." If you are moving this is all the information you get. If a party member has a magic item and walks through your senses it returns yes. You don't get a count or power until after 6 seconds and don't get school until round 3. You make for a good early warning system if you walk in front of the party, but something sneaking up behind you will blend in with the three to four Christmas trees following you.

At least this is my reading.

You're entirely right on this point. The one-round use of Detect Magic just gets you a yes/no answer.

But here's the thing. Suppose you look inside of an empty 5'x5' room. You sense something there. You get a yes ping. But the room is empty.

It doesn't take Batman to figure out what's going on.

You don't need to measure a power level to know that if you can sense something, but can't see it, there's probably something concealed there. And that's where Faerie Fire comes in. That logic applies to any empty space - if you look in an empty area and see nothing, but sense something, Faerie Fire. Hey, if you're wrong, no harm, no foul, just some sparkles. But if you're right, bam, hero.

Now, it's also worth noting several things. First, if you're a primary spellcaster (e.g. Wiz/Sorc/etc.) you probably don't need these as SLAs. With the exception of always-on Detect Magic, you can probably cast most or all of these as spells. If you're not a primary spellcaster, three feats may be a lot of price to pay. A melee-oriented role, for instance, may well be feat-starved. So keep in mind that it doesn't just cost you three feat slots in a vacuum; it costs you what you might put in those slots.

Now, if your build isn't particularly feat dependent, this becomes a really neat option. And powerful, to boot. Compare - these three feats give you a slew of at-will SLAs plus an always-on Detect Magic. What's another racial SLA feat? Magical Tail (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/magical-tail-kitsune). What does it do? Give you one 2/day SLA, a different one each time you take the feat. Compare those. GDN gives you one always-on SLA, and five at-will SLAs, for three feats. To get the full power of Magical Tail, you need to take it eight times, at which point you have eight 2/day SLAs. Now, admittedly, you can use a trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/nine-tailed-scion-kitsune) to gain these feats more easily, but at the end, you're spending 8 feats to gain 8 2/day SLAs, as opposed to 3 feats for 1 always-on and 5 at-will SLAs. So, yeah, GDN > Magical Tail. It's powerful.

But keep it in context.

[the_archduke]

Greater Drow Nobility is also the prerequisite of Noble Spell resistance which turns your 6+CL SR into 11+CL SR. You can't take it until level 13, but I think SR 24 at level 13 would be pretty sweet. (As opposed to the SR 19 you would have otherwise).

A

[Deadline]

You're entirely right on this point. The one-round use of Detect Magic just gets you a yes/no answer.

But here's the thing. Suppose you look inside of an empty 5'x5' room. You sense something there. You get a yes ping. But the room is empty.

It doesn't take Batman to figure out what's going on.

I'm afraid you've lost me. How is Batman finding Lloyd Ventrix or the Gentleman Ghost hiding in a small walk-in closet indicative of this feat being even close to powerful? Finding that invisible foe lurking in a 5'x5' room is in an ability I'd peg in a very narrow range of "useful", but barring adventuring in a dungeon comprised of nothing but 5'x5' rooms, I'm not sure you have enough room to argue for powerful. At-Will Levitate seems like the most potent of the bunch, and that's only really good at low levels.

The feat seems nicely thematic but pretty average overall to me. It seems like the kind of thing that is best for versatility on non-casters (who, as you pointed out, have more need of their feats). I suppose if you are playing with Pathfinder feat progression, the bitter 3-feat pill is easier to swallow because then you have the feats to burn.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, I would put this as gold tier for a drow rogue and medium for everyone else. The SLA's are all great for a rogue or skill based character who will be ranging ahead of the party in a scout/trapfinder role. Melee characters are better focusing the feats on melee and the con penalty hurts. Casters have better spells from their class abilities and are better served expanding that.