Lich Paralysis...

[Iranon]

Now, O-Chul's predicament, if he is still alive, brought several things to my attention about the permanent paralisis:


- Xykon's behaviour hinted victims can still hear things... so apparently the other senses work too.

- Victims would eventually die of thirst... however, that might take an unusually long time if all activity is prohibited

- How does this affect the mind? From the question of whether victims need to/get to sleep to being unable to scratch that itch... I'm wondering if some survivors wouldn't be permanently marked by the experience.

This is quite scary once you think of it...

[AKA_Bait]

Well yes, that's why Liches have it.

[Sigbru]

Is there someway to prevent the Lich paralysis touch ? like a spell ?
I wonder how Xykon catch up with O-chul with all the crazy paladins in the room

[Daedalus73]

On a tangent ... how did O'Chul survive for more than a few seconds or minutes from the Lich paralysis? Is there some cheery caveat to a lich's horrible powers that prevent the paralysis from working on involuntary muscle tissue in the body? There must be, otherwise O'Chul would have died from suffocation or heart failure some time ago.

[Porthos]

On a tangent ... how did O'Chul survive for more than a few seconds or minutes from the Lich paralysis? Is there some cheery caveat to a lich's horrible powers that prevent the paralysis from working on involuntary muscle tissue in the body? There must be, otherwise O'Chul would have died from suffocation or heart failure some time ago.

Hark? Do I hear the wails of catgirls as they die? I think I do. :smalltongue:

[PlasticSoldier]

On a tangent ... how did O'Chul survive for more than a few seconds or minutes from the Lich paralysis? Is there some cheery caveat to a lich's horrible powers that prevent the paralysis from working on involuntary muscle tissue in the body? There must be, otherwise O'Chul would have died from suffocation or heart failure some time ago.

If it killed them in a minute they would just call it a Lich's paralyzing death attack, besides D&D doesn't have a system for heart attacks so you can't have them.

[Kresalak]

Paralysis only stops voluntary muscles.

[Chronos]

Is there someway to prevent the Lich paralysis touch ? like a spell ?Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm) wouldn't prevent the paralysis, but it would temporarily negate it while the spell was in effect. That's probably why Durkon cast it on Roy before the Great Leap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html). If Xykon had tried to use his paralyzing touch on Roy during their battle, Roy could still have moved freely for a couple of hours. Then, after the battle, a Remove Paralysis spell would free him.

And, of course, it also offers a saving throw. O-Chul just got unlucky, is all.

[tainsouvra]

- How does this affect the mind? From the question of whether victims need to/get to sleep to being unable to scratch that itch... I'm wondering if some survivors wouldn't be permanently marked by the experience. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#paralyzed

"A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions."

Emphasis added. The mind is unaffected other than that it is unable to initiate any form of physical action or movement.


Is there some cheery caveat to a lich's horrible powers that prevent the paralysis from working on involuntary muscle tissue in the body? This is true of every paralysis attack in the D&D universe, unless specifically noted otherwise. In fact, most paralysis falls under the Enchantment (Compulsion) catagory, which makes sense given the real-life analogues to it. Most paralysis is due to neural damage, particularly to the spinal cord, and eliminates voluntary movement without affecting the muscles themselves (other than eventual atrophy).

[Iranon]

Oh, I knew the mind was not affected directly. I was merely pondering the psychological implications...

Although, given the capabilities of clerical magic at a level when you're likely to mess with liches, hardly anything matters any more.

- Didn't I utterly destroy you in body, mind and soul each three times over?
- I got better.

[Forealms]

- Victims would eventually die of thirst... however, that might take an unusually long time if all activity is prohibited

You seem to be forgetting that he's been having tea all this time. Doesn't seem to like scones, though.

[Snake-Aes]

Most paralysis spells(if not all, to balance them as just a 'don't act, sit down' thing) are described as not stoping vital organs. Including lungs, heart, brain, diafragm...

[Ithekro]

Well he's only been paralysed for part of a day at this point. Less time than Roy has been dead.

It would be funny if they left him behind, thinking he is dead. If only to fustrate us longer. But then who knows what plan lurks in the hearts of Giants?

[SandroTheMaster]

Actually, O-Chul wasn't unlucky. Considering Xykon is a sorcerer lich, which implies high charisma, and make a low guess of level 18 (the least to cast Meteor Shower) and a low guess of charisma 26 (16 base+4 from levels+2 from lich+4 for a likely cloak of charisma +4) it would make a fortitude save of 27 [10+(18HD/2)+8CHA]. Counting that he can make this attack as many times as he has attacks in a round, that's a good chance to paralyze. Also, he had expeditious retreat and possibly haste. The odds of reaching a charging paladin in full plate? Very good.

Finally, the lich's paralysis

Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description).

The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Spot check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive..

So, basically, his paralysis is a bit worse than "normal" paralysis, so I think Mental Actions are out of the chart, although that could mean some kind of help against the odds of dying from starvation/thirst. Then again, O-Chul didn't look "dead", but paralyzed as normal, so we can assume the Giant can do whatever he pleases to him.

[Chronos]

Actually, O-Chul wasn't unlucky. Considering Xykon is a sorcerer lich, which implies high charisma, and make a low guess of level 18 (the least to cast Meteor Shower) and a low guess of charisma 26 (16 base+4 from levels+2 from lich+4 for a likely cloak of charisma +4) it would make a fortitude save of 27 [10+(18HD/2)+8CHA].Well, Xykon's probably actually level 20, and he also got +3 to Cha from aging, so that'd bump that save DC up to 29 or 30. But then again, O-Chul is decently high level in a class which gives good Fort save progression, and has divine grace, so a Fort save bonus of +18 or +20 isn't out of the question. And Xykon had to move more than 5 feet, so he couldn't have full attacked. Plus he wasn't guaranteed a hit, even with a touch attack (O-Chul gets a +2 deflection bonus from the Hallow spell on the throne room, and Xykon's str and dex probably aren't too great). Which makes it more or less a coin flip whether the paralysis would have worked. So I stand by my statement that he was unlucky, just not horrendously so.

[Daedalus73]

Hark? Do I hear the wails of catgirls as they die? I think I do. :smalltongue:

Huh?

Yay 10 char min.

[David Argall]

On a tangent ... how did O'Chul survive for more than a few seconds or minutes from the Lich paralysis? Is there some cheery caveat to a lich's horrible powers that prevent the paralysis from working on involuntary muscle tissue in the body? There must be, otherwise O'Chul would have died from suffocation or heart failure some time ago.

You are trying to shove too much reality into the rules.

Paralysis means pretty much you are a stick until somebody does something about it. You live as long as the DM feels like letting you live, which could be decades. There are no short term death threats involved. If it killed you, the rules would say so.

[Charity322]

besides D&D doesn't have a system for heart attacks so you can't have them.

Someone should tell the MitD that he doesn't have to have fat free scones then. :smallbiggrin: Actually I'd like his recipe ...

[Rad]

Someone should tell the MitD that he doesn't have to have fat free scones then. :smallbiggrin: Actually I'd like his recipe ...

Of course he doesn't! But he can!
I'm not much into class&level geekery, but O'Chul is not that high in level after all. I think his fort save is only about +12 (cloak of charisma => no cloak of resistance). Good for 10th level sorcerers but not so much for 20th level ones. He might have needed a 17 on the d20 to save.

[Daedalus73]

You are trying to shove too much reality into the rules.

Paralysis means pretty much you are a stick until somebody does something about it. You live as long as the DM feels like letting you live, which could be decades. There are no short term death threats involved. If it killed you, the rules would say so.

I know what paralysis in D&D does. It was humor of the "comparing a D&D rule/effect w/ reality" variety.

[Chronos]

(cloak of charisma => no cloak of resistance)I wasn't assuming any sort of cloak on O-Chul, but if he does have a Cloak of Charisma, that'd boost his saves higher. Looking it over, though, I think I miscalculated previously... +12 probably is about right for his fort save, though it might still be higher (if he took a 2-level fighter dip, or has con or charisma boosting equipment, or just lucky rolls on his con and cha).

[SandroTheMaster]

Well, Xykon's probably actually level 20, and he also got +3 to Cha from aging, so that'd bump that save DC up to 29 or 30. But then again, O-Chul is decently high level in a class which gives good Fort save progression, and has divine grace, so a Fort save bonus of +18 or +20 isn't out of the question. And Xykon had to move more than 5 feet, so he couldn't have full attacked. Plus he wasn't guaranteed a hit, even with a touch attack (O-Chul gets a +2 deflection bonus from the Hallow spell on the throne room, and Xykon's str and dex probably aren't too great). Which makes it more or less a coin flip whether the paralysis would have worked. So I stand by my statement that he was unlucky, just not horrendously so.

I know he probably IS higher than what I stated, but I was exposing the VERY MINIMUM the DC of Xykon's paralysis would be, by level, equipment and scores. Probably he does have higher charisma, higher HD and better equipment. So that really does have a few points in the DC that the very minimum would be already hard to challenge. He COULD even have a feat to improve it, but he probably doesn't. And O-Chul's touch AC? With luck, 13, 15 if he by chance had an amulet of natural armor good for his level (unless he uses rings with better than +2, it won't give a bonus in the Hallow area), versus the least of +9 from Xykon (but could well be +10 with haste.) What I mean is that O-Chul would have needed a bit of LUCK to not be paralyzed (and that he wasn't unlucky for being paralyzed.)