4th Level Barbarian - GWM or ASI?

[Oramac]

I'm playing a Goliath Barbarian of the Totem Path (Bear, duh).

Stats at 3rd level:

17, 15, 16, 8, 8, 8

I'm trying to decide whether to bump Str/Dex up to 18/16 or take GWM at 4th level.

I will most likely not be playing this character very often, but will keep him around for the times he's needed.

What say you, playground?

[NecroDancer]

Id bump the strength and dex up,

[Lollerabe]

I'd take GWM, stat bumps are pretty boring if you ask me.

[ruy343]

I take it that you use a large weapon and are generally the hit point sponge. If you have a habit of using your Reckless Attack feature, I recommend GWM, but if you want some more survivability and utility, the ASI is the better choice.

[N810]

GWM is more effective in the lower levels...
due to it's flat damage bonus.

[Oramac]

I take it that you use a large weapon and are generally the hit point sponge. If you have a habit of using your Reckless Attack feature

Problem is, this is all true.

I am the sponge, which would lean me towards the ASI for the extra Dex to AC, and the +1 attack/damage from Str.

But I also use Reckless Attack a lot, which leans me towards GWM.

With the above, overall, I'm leaning towards the ASI.

[Biggstick]

I'm assuming you're getting kills as well being a Barbarian. One of the other perks to GWM is the bonus action attack if you kill a target or land a critical hit. GWM not only serves as a damage option, but as a source of an extra bonus action attack.

My choice would be GWM for sure.

[NecroDancer]

Barbarians are truly the masters of the greatest weapons

Either way your character will be fine

[Pex]

Bump stats now, get feat later. You aren't in need of the +10 damage. 18 ST and rage bonus is enough. If you feel lag, 5th level comes in with Extra Attack for 4d6 + 12 damage. At 7th level is where you might start to subjectively feel that's not enough, so that's when 8th level comes around for the feat.

[WickerNipple]

With two critical stats being odd currently, I would almost certainly take the ASI.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd take GWM, stat bumps are pretty boring if you ask me.
This. Especially if it's an irregularly-used character, you want to get the fun bits ASAP.

[SillyPopeNachos]

I'd bump str/dex or con

[Pex]

I'd take GWM, stat bumps are pretty boring if you ask me.


This. Especially if it's an irregularly-used character, you want to get the fun bits ASAP.

For some people, like me, a stat bump is the fun bit.

[INDYSTAR188]

For some people, like me, a stat bump is the fun bit.

Could you expand on this please? Its fairly static to get the asi (no new powers or whatnot) but lots of stuff your pc gets 'better' at. Is it deciding where to put it? Seeing the effect across the character sheet? A noticible improvement at the table? Just curious how/why an ASI is exciting to you.

[RulesJD]

Problem is, this is all true.

I am the sponge, which would lean me towards the ASI for the extra Dex to AC, and the +1 attack/damage from Str.

But I also use Reckless Attack a lot, which leans me towards GWM.

With the above, overall, I'm leaning towards the ASI.

Depends on what you want out of your Barbarian.


Do you want to dominate the table in combat AND (this is the most important part) are the rest of your players okay with being second fiddle to the Barbarian show in combat?

If both of those questions can be answered with "Yes" then pickup GWM. Quite simply GWM + Reckless Attack + Bear Totem Barbarian = one of the more overpowering combos in the game, especialllllly at lower levels.


You don't need the ASI boosts. You already have 15 Dex which means you can wear Half-Plate can get the max AC 17 while using 2 handed weapons. Boosting Dex will only get you to AC 16, so even then you're still better off just spending a few gold for Half-Plate and calling it a day.

[Tanarii]

Unless he's getting more wealth from the Dam than the DMG tables recommend, he won't be able to afford Half-Plate until he starts the next tier. And it kills you stealth as well. Not only that, with Dex/Con 16 he doesn't even need to buy a Breastplate.

Not saying that you're wrong. I personally usually cap Barbs at Dex 14 for the same reason, with either HP or Br once I can afford them. But it's a possible consideration depending on how fast gold is coming, if he has stealth, and how fast leveling is going. Dex at 4th may be better for the 4-5 stretch, with extra damage kicking in at 8th, by which time HP is far more attainable.

[Oramac]

Unless he's getting more wealth from the Dam than the DMG tables recommend, he won't be able to afford Half-Plate until he starts the next tier. And it kills you stealth as well. Not only that, with Dex/Con 16 he doesn't even need to buy a Breastplate.

Not saying that you're wrong. I personally usually cap Barbs at Dex 14 for the same reason, with either HP or Br once I can afford them. But it's a possible consideration depending on how fast gold is coming, if he has stealth, and how fast leveling is going. Dex at 4th may be better for the 4-5 stretch, with extra damage kicking in at 8th, by which time HP is far more attainable.

I'm going more for the "shirtless barbarian" trope, so armor is not something I'm planning to wear. Which is why I'm looking at the extra Dex for Unarmored Defense. (and eventually picking up Bracers of Defense)

[Tanarii]

I'm going more for the "shirtless barbarian" trope, so armor is not something I'm planning to wear. Which is why I'm looking at the extra Dex for Unarmored Defense. (and eventually picking up Bracers of Defense)
Yeah in that case I'd personally go +1 Str, +1 Dex first. Provided you're generally not facing enemies that have really high hit points yet. Generally that's more likely at lower levels, although YMMV depending on your DM and what he's running.

[beargryllz]

+1 str and +1 dex is, by far, the best choice for your character

Until you're rocking 20 str, there are very few ways to justify taking a feat over a potential increase in STR

[Tanarii]

+1 str and +1 dex is, by far, the best choice for your character

Until you're rocking 20 str, there are very few ways to justify taking a feat over a potential increase in STRThat's crazy. A Barbarian should ALWAYS prioritize GWM over +2 to Str if they're primarily two-handing a weapon. If your goal is more damage, GWM > +1 hit/damage.

The OP has a different case because he's netting +1 to two different stat bonuses, upping AC as well as hit/damage.

Edit: Okay always might be too strong. There is such a thing as overkill at lower levels. But even then, GWM is giving you a bonus action attack when you get a kill.

[Pex]

Could you expand on this please? Its fairly static to get the asi (no new powers or whatnot) but lots of stuff your pc gets 'better' at. Is it deciding where to put it? Seeing the effect across the character sheet? A noticible improvement at the table? Just curious how/why an ASI is exciting to you.

I like big numbers and I cannot lie. :smallyuk:

It is aesthetically pleasing having +6 to hit for 2d6 + 4 damage over +5 to hit for 2d6 + 3 damage. Also as a matter of personal experience of years of playing , every +1 matters. I've lost count the number of times when I played a cleric in my pre-5E and still current Pathfinder games (oracle) where I had cast Bless, a party member rolls to hit but misses, I remind him he has +1 to hit from Bless, he hits. In my experience with 5E, at low level I've found just hitting and damage is enough. Cool class features of course matter and help, but you need to stick the landing. Get your to hit and/or saving throw DC as high as possible. Later on the fancy stuff of feats matters more, i. e. 8th level, if you need/want something. A 20 is nice and worth it but not an absolute need at this time. A 20 or a feat is equally valuable.

More specific highly personal reasons: I often play Variant Human and get the feat I want anyway, so I have room to consider how much and how soon I need a second feat. Also, I'm ok with Point Buy as a concept but loathe forever and without apology 5E's implementation of it (way off topic :smallbiggrin:) which influences my character creation and advancement plans.

[RaynorReynolds]

I would normall say ASI, but if you wont be playing the character that much go with GWM just for fun. You will hit less often when you use it. Even with reckless attack, but doing an extra 10 damage at level 4 is huge.

[Socratov]

GWM is an amazing feat and the +10 and bonus attack on hit is really great, but, at low level, that -5 penalty to to-hit really stings at low lvl. And ultimately, when playing someone who uses a big sword, hitting is more fun then not hitting. Not hitting is being useless. Being useless is something that is decidedly unfun. Especially if you play less often.

While it may not be the most flashy option, taking the ASI's is at this point better for your character and fun.

[Oramac]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I really appreciate it.

After much deliberation (and flipping a coin behind my back), I've decided to go with the ASI first, and take GWM at 8th level.

[Citan]

I'm playing a Goliath Barbarian of the Totem Path (Bear, duh).

Stats at 3rd level:

17, 15, 16, 8, 8, 8

I'm trying to decide whether to bump Str/Dex up to 18/16 or take GWM at 4th level.

I will most likely not be playing this character very often, but will keep him around for the times he's needed.

What say you, playground?
I'd go with the double stat bump because DEX is good for a Barbarian.

But if you think you survive fine enough as is, don't be afraid to go the fun route and take GWM.
You could even take Athletics later to round up DEX while making a concept of "never down" berserker XD

[RaynorReynolds]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I really appreciate it.

After much deliberation (and flipping a coin behind my back), I've decided to go with the ASI first, and take GWM at 8th level.

That is the better ( long term outlook ) way to go.

[Mongobear]

Are you absolutely invested in GWM?

The reason I ask, is because I would also suggest Polearm Master as an alternative, since it gives you an always on Bonus Action attack that can benefit from your Rage bonus damage, and also gives you reliable Reaction Attacks.

If you are only considering GWM vs +1 Str/Dex, I would go with the stat bump, but if you find PAM a good alternative, I would take PAM now then +1 Str/Dex at 8.

[EvilAnagram]

I'm playing a Goliath Barbarian of the Totem Path (Bear, duh).

Stats at 3rd level:

17, 15, 16, 8, 8, 8

I'm trying to decide whether to bump Str/Dex up to 18/16 or take GWM at 4th level.

I will most likely not be playing this character very often, but will keep him around for the times he's needed.

What say you, playground?

Neither, go with Linguist!

[Nifft]

Neither, go with Linguist!

The real tragedy here is that there's no Cunning stat.

= = =

In terms of optimization, I feel like you need to figure out how much less you'd be hitting if you used the GWF -5/+10 option. If you have a magic weapon, and you're buffed by Bless every encounter, then you might have a surfeit of attack bonus which you can happily convert into damage via GWF.

On the flip side, if you're currently only hitting 50% of the time, then I'd suggest two ASIs (to get Str to 20) before even thinking about GWF.

If I were running a character with your physical stats (17 / 15 / 16) then I'd think very hard about whether I wanted any Feats at all. 5 ASIs and you'd have level 19 = 20/18/20 -> level 20 = 24/18/24 which means NAKED AC TANK.

[TheBirba]

I took an ASI when I reached lvl 4 to bump str to 18 and at level 5 my DM let me retrain that for GWM. Which is much better with Reckless Attack.

Although, since you allocated your stats horribly I'd take the ASI for now and GWM at 8.

[Mongobear]

Although, since you allocated your stats horribly I'd take the ASI for now and GWM at 8.


?????

The only possible issue is the low Wisdom, Int and Cha saves barely exist in 5e. And the Wisdom save can be made up for by standing near a level 6+ Paladin, taking the Resilient Feat, or a handful of other magic items/class features.

I have played this exact character build before and it works fine, you just need to actively try and make up for your weak will-power.

[djreynolds]

?????

The only possible issue is the low Wisdom, Int and Cha saves barely exist in 5e. And the Wisdom save can be made up for by standing near a level 6+ Paladin, taking the Resilient Feat, or a handful of other magic items/class features.

I have played this exact character build before and it works fine, you just need to actively try and make up for your weak will-power.

You know I think you are right on both accounts, take resilient wisdom or PAM, your wisdom save -1, and you are a front line tank. Hold Person could be your Achilles Heel, take PAM at 4th and resilient wisdom at 8th.

Fear, charm, and hold person are big openings in your defense. You have good con saves versus paralysis.