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View Full Version : Optimization Cleric/Bard planning



Mooglir
2016-10-18, 11:15 AM
I just started a game so it will be a while before/if we get to 20, but I always like to plan ahead. I rolled pretty crappy on his stats so I was thinking of making him more utility/rp use of a character rather than a shining beam of dps. I want my character to have the level 17 cleric so I can have access to level 9 cleric spells so I can't really go much lower than that for cleric. The unfortunate thing about clerics is that they don't seem to have that many useful improvements after 17 if I multiclass into another spellcaster.
Possible abilities I'd lose if I stopped at 17:

-If there is an improvement not listed in the book 20th level 5 or lower destroy undead?
-1 channel divinity per rest
-And a 15% chance to have my divine intervention not work.
-1 ASI
That does not seem like much to me am I missing anything else?

Before anyone freaks about the loss of an ASI I am not really losing anything. I am going to take the FEAT "SKILLED" That feat would have taken 1 ABI this is true; however, if you go 3 into bard and select lore college its like getting that feat. Additionally I get 22 additional prepared spells and 4 cantrips at level 20. I also get Bardic inspiration Jack of trades, song of rest, Expertise, and cutting words. My bard can have all his level 1-2 spells with healing and my cleric can focus his prepared spells into levels 3-9.
The utility gain I'd get from 3 investments into Bard seems to really outweigh the cons of cleric. If anyone sees a flaw in my logic somewhere please let me know.
9 str
11 dex
12 con
6 intelligence
14 wis
14 cha
I rolled pretty crappy. My cleric is a trickster that makes people do work for him. I've been playing him like a jester, Loki, deadpool. He puts whoopee cushions with sleight of hand into peoples pants etc.

P.S. It seems all other classes get some sort of capstone ability at 20 and clerics do not.

Biggstick
2016-10-18, 12:23 PM
Are those stats before or after racial bonuses? What race are you playing? You mention playing as a more RP/utility tool for the party; what does your party need from you outside of combat (Face? Expertised skills?)

Also, mad respect for posting a piss poor stat roll and planning on playing through with it. If I was unable to get any help from the DM concerning the 6 Int (asking for mercy for him to let it be an 8), I'd definitely spend an ASI raising that to 8. I hate playing low Int characters, and 6 Int is on the level of some domesticated animals.

All that aside, you don't really need to max out Cleric. The level 20 capstone is your level 10 Divine ability is guaranteed to work. While this might be useful in some situations, I like to look at the Cleric 17 as the real capstone for the class. Since you went Trickery Cleric, your capstone is a little less useful as a real capstone, so we're not as worried about getting there at 17 and can wait until level 20 for it. This means you can dip 3 levels for any sort of flavor you'd like for the character. Here are some decent options.

Rogue: While you don't have the Dex to multiclass here, spending the ASI's necessary to multiclass into Rogue would do you a solid in the utility department. You'll gain Cunning Action, a pair of sneak attack dice, an archetype (AT or Swashbuckler both stand out to me for your character), a skill and some Expertise. This is more useful if you want your multiclassed utility to not necessarily be magical but of a more mundane type. This will make you a bit more MAD though, seeing as you don't quite have the stat's to do it. While this would be my most preferred path in your situation, it's also the most costly (an ASI required into Dex to even consider it)

Bard: Grabbing Bard would grant you more solid uses of your Bonus action with Cutting Words/Bardic Inspiration. Song of Rest + Jack of all Trades isn't to be underestimated either. Four skills and a pair of Expertised skills and this is the biggest skill monkey grab you could make. This multiclass is all about being able to continue your spell casting progression while picking up tons of great utility. This would be a great choice.

Sorcerer: An option you might not have considered. Three levels here gets you access to some sweet Metamagics. If you choose Draconic Bloodline, you're also gaining some always on armor as well. This choice would be more for the offensive utility Metamagic brings, as well as the offensive attack roll cantrips you can choose.

Warlock: While each pact is useful, I'm looking at pact of the Tome. Going this route would grant you access to all the other rituals you don't have as a Cleric. You'd also be able to pick up the mother of all attack cantrips with Eldritch Blast. This choice is an offensive option with a bit of utility based on which Pact you choose and who you choose to make it with.

With all of these choices presented, what really matters is when you decide to make the choice. A good point to break away from Cleric is at levels 5, 8, or 10. Grab your three levels of multiclass, and then head back to Cleric. Depending on what choices you made, I'd suggest maxing out Wisdom. Other then maxing Wisdom, you can go whatever route you want with your ASIs.

Mooglir
2016-10-18, 01:12 PM
I'm a half-elf. So those are after I put my +2 cha and 1 wis, 1 dex. think it was a 62 roll for stats and the other 3 got 75+ so im hurting pretty bad. It's ok that is the luck of the dice, my other game I got 80+ for my pally so guess it evened out. I like pallies more so its ok. My party as far as I know is a monk, rogue, and wizard of some sorts. My DM lets us choose if we want others to know us by simply RPing and telling others. Otherwise no one knows more than what you can tell from spells or whatnot. That and we had to pick anything but evil alignments. He also likes us to meet up somewhere as our meeting. we usually don't know everyone in group at time of quest MAYBE one person. And that was my DM being nice to me. he gave me another 2 rolls to get my stats up it was horrible. I rolled low for 3 rolls and got a 6 as the highest of the roll of the 3, he figured the gods in game wanted me to have the 6 stat after so many chances so that's what I have. My plan was to get 18 wisdom maybe take a feat instead of going for 16 cha and then it's really hard to pass a 9 and an 11. one ABI and I can get a +1 to both of those fields. that makes all my improvements.

bid
2016-10-18, 07:42 PM
9 str
10+1 dex
12 con
6 intelligence
13+1 wis
12+2 cha
I rolled pretty crappy.
You shouldn't MC into MADness with crappy rolls.

Get some Dex+2 / Wis+1 race and put those 3 free levels into mastermind or thief. With Dex14 / Wis14 you'll be ok.