An EK with a Spellbook

[Sigreid]

What do you suppose the effect on the game would be if EK fighters were allowed to keep a spell book like wizards, still limited to their two schools for spells except for their few off school picks. So, you could have a spell book that you can add new spells to and swap spells out after a long rest like a wizard. The book could only hold your Abjuration and Evocation spells and only the few other ones you normally get to pick.

I do understand it would be a flat power increase. Just being able to choose for the day fireball or lightning bolt would do that. But how bad?

[DanyBallon]

What do you suppose the effect on the game would be if EK fighters were allowed to keep a spell book like wizards, still limited to their two schools for spells except for their few off school picks. So, you could have a spell book that you can add new spells to and swap spells out after a long rest like a wizard. The book could only hold your Abjuration and Evocation spells and only the few other ones you normally get to pick.

I do understand it would be a flat power increase. Just being able to choose for the day fireball or lightning bolt would do that. But how bad?

I'm roleplaying my current EK as having a spellbook, and in agreement with the DM, when I get a new spell, either I copy it from a scroll that I got, or the DM put the appropriate spell in a treasure.

I don't think it will such a big power boost as you'll still be limited to learn spell only from Abjuration and Evocation, and one spell once in a while out of these two schools. It's not as if EK would gain access to every spell they will stumble upon. On the other hand, I would remove their ability to forget and replace spells, since they are no longer limited to a fix number of spell known.

[Specter]

I guess it wouldn't be much. The guy who picks Fireball will probably pick it every day.

[Sigreid]

I guess it wouldn't be much. The guy who picks Fireball will probably pick it every day.

Until he knows they're mounting an assault on the temple of the fire elements.:smallbiggrin:

[Specter]

Until he knows they're mounting an assault on the temple of the fire elements.:smallbiggrin:

I'd be more worried about the Wiz/Cle/Dru preparing 7th-level spells in that situation.
That's why I'd allow it, it would create no envy. Other spellcasters scoff at how slowly EKs get spells. And only from two schools!

[D.U.P.A.]

You can still pick Ritual caster feat and the character would basically have a spellbook, although limited by rituals. :)

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's not a raw power upgrade so much as a versatility one-- the standards are somewhat different, and rather looser. The EK's casting is so minor that it offers no threat to the wizard, so you're hardly overlapping too painfully there. Knock yourself out. Personally, I houseruled away the 1/4 casters' school restrictions altogether.

[Warpiglet]

I am creating an eldritch knight currently. I am taking magic initiate for another non evoc/abjure spell and extra cantrips. The big decision will be to take or not take power attack vs. ritual caster.

Not to be a killjoy, but what you want can be achieved in raw and rai. At a cost....

[Warpiglet]

Let me take that post partially back...it would not be the exact same thing u mention at all but is a means to much more versatility

[SharkForce]

It's not a raw power upgrade so much as a versatility one-- the standards are somewhat different, and rather looser. The EK's casting is so minor that it offers no threat to the wizard, so you're hardly overlapping too painfully there. Knock yourself out. Personally, I houseruled away the 1/4 casters' school restrictions altogether.

not to mention it just fits so much better. I really hate limitations along the lines of spell schools, they never work.

you wind up with people that hate the undead being unable to learn halt undead because it's necromancy, healer clerics unable to use raise dead because it's also necromancy (not sure in this edition, it was in 2nd), pacifist wizards unable to learn light because it's evocation, "good" orders of wizards that can't cast glitterdust or unseen servant because it's conjuration, and so on.

in this specific case, we wind up with fighter/mages that can't learn most of the extremely obvious buff spells that you'd expect a fighter/mage to learn. no haste, no mirror image, no improved invisibility, no blur, no enhance attribute (though for reasons unknown to me, wizards also don't get enhance attribute in spite of the fact that the older source material would have them be the only spellcaster that does get it), no fly, no enchant weapon, no enlarge/reduce... I can somewhat understand that they didn't want to introduce an entirely new spell list for those 1/3 casters. it takes up space, it adds yet another spell list that players need to keep in mind... but imo, the cost of limiting to two schools is greater than the benefits. we wind up with fighter/mages that can cast a bunch of spells with no thematic elements or synergy whatsoever, and which can only cast a limited selection from the spells that have both thematic elements *and* synergy. arcane tricksters have it a little bit better in some ways, but still can't cast spells to help them climb, fit into smaller spaces, teleport past doors, jump from rooftop to rooftop, etc. imagine if you were in the world and you had a friend who claims to be an expert rogue who combines magic and skill, and you know that levitation exists... and they can't use fly, jump, levitate, enhance attribute, spider climb, darkness, etc. but for whatever reason, they *can* enchant a weapon, unlike your warrior friend who claims to combine fighting skills and magic.

[Cybren]

I was kind of annoyed EKs and ATs don't use spellbooks, but I really like game mechanics with resonance and internal consistency, and having the two subclasses that poach wizard spells & use int based casting not have a book felt odd. I also just like spellbooks. I'm not sure that it would be game breaking to let them have one, though, and it would encourage them to use int more, since it would increase their number of prepared spells, so fewer players will play int-dumping EKs, which isn't necessarily bad- it would give them more utility with eldritch strike

[Sigreid]

Thanks for the replies. This was mostly a mental exercise for me and I wanted to know what other people thought. If I went this route I would naturally apply the same logic to Arcane Tricksters.

I had also thought about taking the school restrictions off for a true warrior wizard feel, but I thought that would make the EK just flat out a better option than the other fighter sub-classes.

And I do consider it a flat out power increase as to me flexibility = power.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thanks for the replies. This was mostly a mental exercise for me and I wanted to know what other people thought. If I went this route I would naturally apply the same logic to Arcane Tricksters.

I had also thought about taking the school restrictions off for a true warrior wizard feel, but I thought that would make the EK just flat out a better option than the other fighter sub-classes.

And I do consider it a flat out power increase as to me flexibility = power.
In this case, I think spells known -> spellbook isn't a big jump, because the options are already so limited-- there are a very limited number of abjurations and evocations worth learning in the first place, and letting you shift them around a bit doesn't change that too much. You're still casting Shield and Absorb Elements, you know? Opening it up to all schools is a big boost; I only allow it because I think it's fun enough to be worth it, and I want to encourage non-combat-oriented picks.

[Sigreid]

Thanks for everyone's opinions. Nice to know I'm not completely insane. :smallcool:

[djreynolds]

Why haven't you brought this up earlier?

This is a really good idea, I use known spells for rangers based on favored terrain.

Why can't EK and AT have a spell book? Paladins get to prepare spell from multiple schools.

Why can't the EK just prepare spells from the wizard spell list that are evocation/abjuration for the appropriate level.

Known spells are problem across the board since any class can basically spontaneous cast now with their prepared spells that day, i.e.. I prepared featherfall, but If I need to I can use all my 1st level slots to cast magic missile, etc.

My dead eldritch knight... thanks you from the grave for this idea... just kidding. I like it.

Either give them a spellbook or access to all level appropriate evocation/abjuration spells and they can prepare spells for the day from that list. They only get 4th level spells at like level 17 anyhow