Ghost Rider in D&D 3.5

[LoyalPaladin]

Ghost Rider
http://i.imgur.com/imn5DTG.jpg
"You cannot destroy one already beyond death, villain."
-Johnny Blaze

Since I cannot find any threads that I feel suit my needs well enough and I am inspired by a recent character I built that has some Ghost Rider-esque traits, I'm going to create a Ghost Rider thread to end all Ghost Rider threads! For this, I'd like to collect a few builds for the Rider. I'm specifically aiming at the Johnny Blaze (http://marvel.com/universe/Ghost_Rider_(John_Blaze)) iteration of the Rider. For this, I'd like to find a way to bring both Johnny and Zarathos into the build. I thought Fiend of Possession might work, but I just can't seem to find a way to make an ordinary person (cohort?) into our favorite lawful neutral flaming spirit of vengeance. So now I've come to you, playground! Do your worst! But beware the carebear penance stare!

[Venger]

are there specific powers you want? do you want to do stuff in mounted combat? etc.

fluffwise, binder would be a pretty good fit. you could just refluff the vestiges as being aspects or different powers zarathos gives you, or say they were many of his faces in the mortal world. plus you can do a pretty good job of mounted combat with andras.

if that doesn't appeal, meldshaping might also be good. riding bracers from totemist (if you want to focus on natural attacks) or incarnate (if you want more utility) will help you ride really well and again do well in mounted combat, plus totemist lets you breathe fire (and like, good energy types) to represent ghost rider's chains.

all the classes are fluffed around gaining power from departed souls.

for race, if you're not too feat-starved, look into fiendish codex 2's hellbred, they're damned souls who get a second chance on earth to do good, a pretty good thematic fit for johnny.

let me know which of these appeal to you and we can go from there

[LoyalPaladin]

Specifically, I was hoping to be able to shift from a mortal form into a nasty hellfire demon of justice. Sort of like Frenzied Berserker, but in a lawful kind of way.

Isn't there a cleric spell that lets you list of a mortal's sins?

[Venger]

Specifically, I was hoping to be able to shift from a mortal form into a nasty hellfire demon of justice. Sort of like Frenzied Berserker, but in a lawful kind of way.

Isn't there a cleric spell that lets you list of a mortal's sins?

you could always do the hulk trick and use goliath's mountain rage acf, fluffing your large size as your monster form when zarathos comes out.

nothing preventing you from rolling FB. ghost rider does punish evildoers, but it doesn't mean you need to shackle him to a lawful alignment.

yes, that's pronouncement of fate from heroes of horror, a very fun spell.

do you want to roll cleric?

you might just go with a standard sacrilegious fist. 9th lvl cleric spells plus you can light yourself on fire while you beat up bad guys. you could fluff your uses of that ability/day as turning into your skeletal form.

[LoyalPaladin]

you could always do the hulk trick and use goliath's mountain rage acf, fluffing your large size as your monster form when zarathos comes out.
I'm unfamiliar with this ACF. What does it do?


nothing preventing you from rolling FB. ghost rider does punish evildoers, but it doesn't mean you need to shackle him to a lawful alignment.
What's FB?

I do feel like Ghost Rider is a Lawful Neutral being. You obviously can't call him [Good] and I wouldn't call him [Evil], but I definitely feel like he's to convicted to be True Neutral and Chaos just doesn't seem to fit him...


yes, that's pronouncement of fate from heroes of horror, a very fun spell.

do you want to roll cleric?
Not particularly... but being able to snag that spell might be helpful.


you might just go with a standard sacrilegious fist. 9th lvl cleric spells plus you can light yourself on fire while you beat up bad guys. you could fluff your uses of that ability/day as turning into your skeletal form.
Is this correct? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12754.0)

I was hoping to find a way to either be possessed or change class features on the fly. Go from, say, a Paladin 20 to some sort of pyrokinetic master of chains. Possibly even picking up the bone creature template.

[Venger]

I'm unfamiliar with this ACF. What does it do?
it's an ACF for goliath barbarians. instead of the normal effects of rage, you get different bonuses, and grow one size larger for the duration instead.

FB stands for frenzied berserker.



I do feel like Ghost Rider is a Lawful Neutral being. You obviously can't call him [Good] and I wouldn't call him [Evil], but I definitely feel like he's to convicted to be True Neutral and Chaos just doesn't seem to fit him...
Right, in abstract talking about comic book alignment charts that all makes sense, but if it's messing up your ability to build the character you want (since barbarians lose rage if they become lawful for some stupid reason) I had just advised not worrying about it too much


Not particularly... but being able to snag that spell might be helpful.
ok, well it's on the cleric list and also the spite domain if you're a different flavor of caster and have a domain somehow


Is this correct? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12754.0)

I was hoping to find a way to either be possessed or change class features on the fly. Go from, say, a Paladin 20 to some sort of pyrokinetic master of chains. Possibly even picking up the bone creature template.
yeah, that's the original. obviously tweak to your own preferences, there are many variations, but the basic conceit is ur-priest into sacred fist.

A game paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445134-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin) is a fun way to paladin.

bone creature has no listed LA, so that's no good. had you considered five nations' bone knight? very appropriate for ghost rider. it's a really good class, and advances casting, so you can dip cloistered cleric 1 for spells and pronounce the fate of bad guys in addition to a lot of great class features alongside decent synergy for mounted stuff if you so desire, since ghost rider's all about his sweet ride.

[LoyalPaladin]

it's an ACF for goliath barbarians. instead of the normal effects of rage, you get different bonuses, and grow one size larger for the duration instead.
Oh that's cool.


FB stands for frenzied berserker.
Gotcha!


Right, in abstract talking about comic book alignment charts that all makes sense, but if it's messing up your ability to build the character you want (since barbarians lose rage if they become lawful for some stupid reason) I had just advised not worrying about it too much
Oh, I see what you're saying. Agreed.


ok, well it's on the cleric list and also the spite domain if you're a different flavor of caster and have a domain somehow
Good to know. Arcane Disciple could help out with that.


yeah, that's the original. obviously tweak to your own preferences, there are many variations, but the basic conceit is ur-priest into sacred fist.
Fiend of Possession or Magic Jar might help out, right? I'd really like a crunch way to make it happen as an option.


A game paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445134-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin) is a fun way to paladin.
I do know that one! Haha.


bone creature has no listed LA, so that's no good. had you considered five nations' bone knight? very appropriate for ghost rider. it's a really good class, and advances casting, so you can dip cloistered cleric 1 for spells and pronounce the fate of bad guys in addition to a lot of great class features alongside decent synergy for mounted stuff if you so desire, since ghost rider's all about his sweet ride.
Really? Huh. I never realized... This keeps getting more and more complicated hahaha. Why isn't there a pre-packaged Ghost Rider?!

Edit:
Does a Fiend of Possession retain its own abilities when it possess someone?

[Andezzar]

you could always do the hulk trick and use goliath's mountain rage acf, fluffing your large size as your monster form when zarathos comes out. If you are calling the ACF alone the hulk trick, that works, but if you want to use the ACF to qualify for War Hulk that probably won't and going back to medium size definitely does not remove the "No Time to Think" class feature from war Hulk.

[LoyalPaladin]

I might be horribly butchering this idea and it is entirely dependent on being allowed to build your own cohort/a possessing FoP being able to use its own abilities... but! If you played a Fighter 2/Rogue 4/Master of Chains 10/Ranger 4 and took leadership, you could recruit a cohort with Unholy Scion 5 / Sorcerer 6 / Fiend of Possession 6 and some levels to spare or extra sorcerer levels. You could be possessed by the Fiend when combat starts and have all sorts of spells at your disposal with no recollection of what happened? The only hard part is that scary transformation into an undead. Which might be impossible... But hey, at least you can grant the possessed body a +4 to con or something.

Edit:
If I'm bringing this into the high-cheese territory, I could use Dvati and possess both the mortal's weapon and body?

[Venger]

Good to know. Arcane Disciple could help out with that.


Fiend of Possession or Magic Jar might help out, right? I'd really like a crunch way to make it happen as an option.


I do know that one! Haha.


Really? Huh. I never realized... This keeps getting more and more complicated hahaha. Why isn't there a pre-packaged Ghost Rider?!

Edit:
Does a Fiend of Possession retain its own abilities when it possess someone?

yeah, or one of the ways to obtain a bonus domain, such as prcs.

once you're done with the class, yeah you pretty much keep everything.


If you are calling the ACF alone the hulk trick, that works, but if you want to use the ACF to qualify for War Hulk that probably won't and going back to medium size definitely does not remove the "No Time to Think" class feature from war Hulk.
yeah, just the acf since the war hulk bits don't really seem to fit with what OP's going for mechanically/thematically.


I might be horribly butchering this idea and it is entirely dependent on being allowed to build your own cohort/a possessing FoP being able to use its own abilities... but! If you played a Fighter 2/Rogue 4/Master of Chains 10/Ranger 4 and took leadership, you could recruit a cohort with Unholy Scion 5 / Sorcerer 6 / Fiend of Possession 6 and some levels to spare or extra sorcerer levels. You could be possessed by the Fiend when combat starts and have all sorts of spells at your disposal with no recollection of what happened? The only hard part is that scary transformation into an undead. Which might be impossible... But hey, at least you can grant the possessed body a +4 to con or something.
master of chains is a really awful class. had you considered just using a spiked chain or similar as a weapon?

you might consider rolling an inspired, from eberron. they're a caste of host bodies raised to house qu'ori, who are demons for all practical purposes.

if you don't want the LA, you might roll kalashtar and go into qu'ori nightmare, a prc about getting powers from the spirit who possesses you sometimes.

[LoyalPaladin]

yeah, or one of the ways to obtain a bonus domain, such as prcs.
You might even be able to use Extra Spell in order to obtain Pronouncement of Fate.


once you're done with the class, yeah you pretty much keep everything.
Okay, so that's awesome. I was hoping to use Sorcerer, but for Dvati it seems like you'd need to go Cleric 7 / Divine Disciple 5 / Fiend of Possession 6. Which means the build can't get rolling for a long time. Plus it will cost you 56,000 gp and 2240 xp, according to this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188723-3-5-Fiend-of-Possesion&p=10446459&viewfull=1#post10446459).


master of chains is a really awful class. had you considered just using a spiked chain or similar as a weapon?
I'm considering that, possibly a Paladin/Swordsage specializing in Desert Wind.


you might consider rolling an inspired, from eberron. they're a caste of host bodies raised to house qu'ori, who are demons for all practical purposes.
What's their source? Most of the time I'm not allowed Eberron. Though at this point I've jumped head first into the queso, so it probably doesn't matter.


if you don't want the LA, you might roll kalashtar and go into qu'ori nightmare, a prc about getting powers from the spirit who possesses you sometimes.
I'll look into that.

[Venger]

You might even be able to use Extra Spell in order to obtain Pronouncement of Fate.


Okay, so that's awesome. I was hoping to use Sorcerer, but for Dvati it seems like you'd need to go Cleric 7 / Divine Disciple 5 / Fiend of Possession 6. Which means the build can't get rolling for a long time. Plus it will cost you 56,000 gp and 2240 xp, according to this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188723-3-5-Fiend-of-Possesion&p=10446459&viewfull=1#post10446459).


I'm considering that, possibly a Paladin/Swordsage specializing in Desert Wind.


What's their source? Most of the time I'm not allowed Eberron. Though at this point I've jumped head first into the queso, so it probably doesn't matter.


I'll look into that.

If your DM allows you to use savage species' rituals, sure, go for it. it beats having to roll a kaorti, the quickest otherwise legal way to enter the class.

inspired is from the eberron campaign setting. again, most of the game's unbalanced content comes from core, something isn't overpowered just because it's from a splat. often, the opposite is true. as mentioned, inspired are kind of a weak choice, being essentially humans with +1 LA.

kalashtar can also be found in the eberron campaign setting.

[LoyalPaladin]

If your DM allows you to use savage species' rituals, sure, go for it. it beats having to roll a kaorti, the quickest otherwise legal way to enter the class.
I'm only leaning towards Dvati because they could possess my character and turn my spiked chain into a magic weapon.

Is there another way to become an Outsider in less levels than Divine Disciple? I'd like to use Wizard or Sorcerer for the fiend's casting class...


inspired is from the eberron campaign setting. again, most of the game's unbalanced content comes from core, something isn't overpowered just because it's from a splat. often, the opposite is true. as mentioned, inspired are kind of a weak choice, being essentially humans with +1 LA.
I definitely agree that core doesn't mean balanced.

[Venger]

I'm only leaning towards Dvati because they could possess my character and turn my spiked chain into a magic weapon.

Is there another way to become an Outsider in less levels than Divine Disciple? I'd like to use Wizard or Sorcerer for the fiend's casting class...


I definitely agree that core doesn't mean balanced.

I'm not sure that would work. the rules just break down with dvati.

well, if your gm allows the SS rituals, then neraphim are la0 outsiders, which is 0 lvls vs 5.

[LoyalPaladin]

I'm not sure that would work. the rules just break down with dvati.
If my understanding of the Dvati race is correct, it should work just fine! They're just using their identical class features.


well, if your gm allows the SS rituals, then neraphim are la0 outsiders, which is 0 lvls vs 5.
Those are the frog things, right?

[Venger]

If my understanding of the Dvati race is correct, it should work just fine! They're just using their identical class features.


Those are the frog things, right?

Maybe? Dvati can't use their double actions to cast spells, so it's not the best fit racewise.

yes, neraphim are red-skinned frogs.

[Ezekiul]

I theorycrafted a build a while back for a ghost rider and modified it a bit for you. You can use the vestiges as mentioned above to be the powers granted by Zarathos:

Human Battle Sorcerer 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 5/Wyrm Wizard 2/Anima Mage 10/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 (for 3 soul binds and max level vestiges) or Full arcane casting progression 5 (for 9th level spells)

Feats:
1: Precocious Apprentice (Wraithstrike or any 2nd level you see fit)
1: Extend Spell
3: Practiced Binding
6: Persistent Spell
9: Arcane Disciple (Spite)
12: Open
15: Open
18: Open

Recommend feats for open slots: Practiced Spellcaster, Ride by Attack, Fiendish Heritage + Fiendish Legacy, Spell Focus + Greater Spell Focus to increase DC of Mystic Lash, Leadership (for a fiend of possession cohort to possess and animate a two wheeled animated object wink wink).

Notable Spells:
1st - Masters Touch (swift action to wield your spiked chain in the early levels - Spell Compendium)
2nd - Wraithstrike (swift action to gain touch attacks to make up for 3/4 BAB and potentially lower strength - Spell Compendium)
3rd - Phantom Steed (for ghost riding)
3rd - Mystic Lash (Gained using wyrm wizard for a touch attack chance to daze and 4d6+cha on hit - Players Guide to Faerun)
4th - Pronoucement of Fate (gained from arcane disciple and spite domain to read sins and give 25% chance to do nothing - Heroes of Horror)

Items:
Battle Bridle (10,000g for mounted combat feat, but youll have to carry it in a bag of holding or something once your steed despawns)

Midgame levels of note:
7th - gain 3rd level spells (phantom steed) and 4th level binds
8th - 1 free persist a day (for wraithstrike/mystic lash or whatever you see fit)
9th - access to spite domain spells and 4th level spells
10th - Gain mystic lash
12th - 2 free persists and can bind 2 vestiges at a time

[Andezzar]

The only hard part is that scary transformation into an undead. Which might be impossible... But hey, at least you can grant the possessed body a +4 to con or something.Is the Ghost Rider really Undead? Just because he looks like a skeleton, does not mean he is undead. Just look at the Bone Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth).


Is there another way to become an Outsider in less levels than Divine Disciple? I'd like to use Wizard or Sorcerer for the fiend's casting class...Deep Imaskari (underdark humans) can become outsiders through the Otherworldly feat. Elves and Spirit Folk from certain regions can as well.

@Ezekiul: Why Batttle Sorcerer? You cannot qualify for Wyrm Wizard with a class that does not prepare its spells.

Why is Arcane Disciple (Spite) required?

[LoyalPaladin]

Maybe? Dvati can't use their double actions to cast spells, so it's not the best fit racewise.
They can cast spells alone, just not if the other one takes any actions. Which is okay to me.


A lone Dvati can cast spells if his twin takes no actions while he casts. Any other sort of action, including a free one, makes it impossible for the casting twin to focus and use his spell. If the dvati tries to use a spell anyway, his casting attempt is ruined and the spell is lost.
Other than that, I think they can take actions fairly normally...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it could go sort of like this:
Round 1
Dvati #1) Quickened Living Undeath (MH), Buff its possessed creature's con by 4 as a free action, and use its remaining standard to use its Control Creature class feature.
Dvati #2) Can't take any actions.

Round 2
Dvati #2) Use its standard action to to turn the possessed creature's magical spiked chain into a flaming spiked chain (and more!)
Dvati #1) Begins to do ghost ridery things.

Now the ghost rider is a fairly powerful melee combatant because the possessed creature is and he can cast spells if he wants. The Dvati in the chain is practically useless now, aside from its presence buffing the weapon. It could jump from the weapon to, say, a motorcycle and animate it.

All of that seems pretty legal, if not really cheesy...?


I theorycrafted a build a while back for a ghost rider and modified it a bit for you. You can use the vestiges as mentioned above to be the powers granted by Zarathos:
First of all, thank you!


Human Battle Sorcerer 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 5/Wyrm Wizard 2/Anima Mage 10/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 (for 3 soul binds and max level vestiges) or Full arcane casting progression 5 (for 9th level spells)

Feats:
1: Precocious Apprentice (Wraithstrike or any 2nd level you see fit)
1: Extend Spell
3: Practiced Binding
6: Persistent Spell
9: Arcane Disciple (Spite)
12: Open
15: Open
18: Open

Recommend feats for open slots: Practiced Spellcaster, Ride by Attack, Fiendish Heritage + Fiendish Legacy, Spell Focus + Greater Spell Focus to increase DC of Mystic Lash, Leadership (for a fiend of possession cohort to possess and animate a two wheeled animated object wink wink).
This is a little complicated to me, just because I'm not so up to speed on Binder. But from what I know, it looks pretty good. I like the fiend of possession in the motorcycle haha.


Notable Spells:
1st - Masters Touch (swift action to wield your spiked chain in the early levels - Spell Compendium)
2nd - Wraithstrike (swift action to gain touch attacks to make up for 3/4 BAB and potentially lower strength - Spell Compendium)
3rd - Phantom Steed (for ghost riding)
3rd - Mystic Lash (Gained using wyrm wizard for a touch attack chance to daze and 4d6+cha on hit - Players Guide to Faerun)
4th - Pronoucement of Fate (gained from arcane disciple and spite domain to read sins and give 25% chance to do nothing - Heroes of Horror)
Excuse me, while I log these spells away for good measure. *shadily sticks them in his Ghost Rider lunch box*


Items:
Battle Bridle (10,000g for mounted combat feat, but youll have to carry it in a bag of holding or something once your steed despawns)


Midgame levels of note:
7th - gain 3rd level spells (phantom steed) and 4th level binds
8th - 1 free persist a day (for wraithstrike/mystic lash or whatever you see fit)
9th - access to spite domain spells and 4th level spells
10th - Gain mystic lash
12th - 2 free persists and can bind 2 vestiges at a time
So how are you persisting spells? I'm also curious how you get Fiend of Possession early on.


Is the Ghost Rider really Undead? Just because he looks like a skeleton, does not mean he is undead. Just look at the Bone Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth).
He has a lot of undead traits. He's definitely got DR, you can't really crit him, and as far as I've seen... he's immune to mind effecting effects. Not to mention his head is a flaming skull.

I actually went to Bone/Chain devils as my first source of a fiend of possession...


Deep Imaskari (underdark humans) can become outsiders through the Otherworldly feat. Elves and Spirit Folk from certain regions can as well.
That's true. I didn't think about the fact that Otherworldy would work. I'm a pretty big fan of the Dvati in this instance, though. Doubling the possessions is nice.


Why is Arcane Disciple (Spite) required?
For his Penance Stare (Pronouncement of Fate).

[Venger]

Is the Ghost Rider really Undead? Just because he looks like a skeleton, does not mean he is undead. Just look at the Bone Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth).

Deep Imaskari (underdark humans) can become outsiders through the Otherworldly feat. Elves and Spirit Folk from certain regions can as well.

@Ezekiul: Why Batttle Sorcerer? You cannot qualify for Wyrm Wizard with a class that does not prepare its spells.

Why is Arcane Disciple (Spite) required?

His powers in the comic aren't quantified exactly in D&D terms, but he is tougher than a human. thats part of why I advised bone knight, it gives most undead style immunitis without actually changing your type or giving the other undead baggage.

they can, but unless you need those races for prcs or similar, it still costs a feat over neraphim if you're speccing for FoP.

I didn't see it in there but he could just take arcane preparation.

it's there because OP wanted pronouncement of fate.

had you considered fiend-blooded? you might fluff your heritage as zarathos's influence since it sounds like you mostly want to play a sorcerer. you get outsider as a capstone, enabling you to qualify for FoP, and your fiendish sorcerey even allows you to select pronouncement of fate as a spell known.

[LoyalPaladin]

had you considered fiend-blooded? you might fluff your heritage as zarathos's influence since it sounds like you mostly want to play a sorcerer. you get outsider as a capstone, enabling you to qualify for FoP, and your fiendish sorcerey even allows you to select pronouncement of fate as a spell known.
I'm not sure what Fiend-Blooded is. What's the source? Heh. Google.

I love this option. Except it really sets me back in terms of starting level. You wouldn't be able to enter FoP until around level 16, which puts me at Epic before I can really get rolling.

[Venger]

I'm not sure what Fiend-Blooded is. What's the source? Heh. Google.

I love this option. Except it really sets me back in terms of starting level. You wouldn't be able to enter FoP until around level 16, which puts me at Epic before I can really get rolling.
I'm glad you do. if you're allowed to be either a neraphim or one of the races Ezekiul listed, and use savage species' ritual, then you've got FoP's reqs taken care of and don't need the outsider type, so if you want to finish FoP, you can ax the final two levels of fiend-blooded, only losing out on one more fiendish sorcery (and handily skipping a dead casting level)

but again, since you're allowed to start as an outsider and use the ritual, you can really enter as soon as you want, which would be at level 6 if you need the FoP abilities more than spells. your build could look something like this:

sor5/fiendblooded1/fop6/fiendblooded 8

you'll need planes as a class skill, so ask your GM. he might agree to ax it or change it to something else, since the hoh writers plainly forgot sorcerers don't have planes. if that doesn't work, either keeper of the forbidden lore or education have you covered.

[LoyalPaladin]

I'm glad you do. if you're allowed to be either a neraphim or one of the races Ezekiul listed, and use savage species' ritual, then you've got FoP's reqs taken care of and don't need the outsider type, so if you want to finish FoP, you can ax the final two levels of fiend-blooded, only losing out on one more fiendish sorcery (and handily skipping a dead casting level)

but again, since you're allowed to start as an outsider and use the ritual, you can really enter as soon as you want, which would be at level 6 if you need the FoP abilities more than spells. your build could look something like this:

sor5/fiendblooded1/fop6/fiendblooded 8

you'll need planes as a class skill, so ask your GM. he might agree to ax it or change it to something else, since the hoh writers plainly forgot sorcerers don't have planes. if that doesn't work, either keeper of the forbidden lore or education have you covered.
I think if I was allowed to start epic, I'd probably take the Fiendblooded route. If not, I'd have to work down the ladder. I'm growing increasingly attached to Dvati.

[Venger]

I think if I was allowed to start epic, I'd probably take the Fiendblooded route. If not, I'd have to work down the ladder. I'm growing increasingly attached to Dvati.

Ok. They're LA 1 and not outsiders, so a transformative prc such as divine disciple would work in exchange for 6 more levels of fiend-blooded.

[LoyalPaladin]

Ok. They're LA 1 and not outsiders, so a transformative prc such as divine disciple would work in exchange for 6 more levels of fiend-blooded.
So, assuming you can buyoff the +1 LA and you can purchase that ritual for 56k, I've got two builds for the spirit of vengeance.

Divine: Cleric 7 / Divine Disciple 5 / Fiend of Possession 6 (Available at ECL 20 with Leadership)

Arcane: Sorcerer 5 / Fiend-Blooded 10 / Fiend of Possession 6 (Available at ECL 23 with Leadership)

Looking like this is an epic build if I want to use Dvati... :smallfrown:

I guess Ghost Rider is fighting demons on a regular basis...

Edit:
In gestalt, you could Go Sorcerer 12 || Unholy Scion 5 / Dvati 1 / Fiend of Possession 6, which gets you to your "end" point more quickly. You can sub out Sorcerer for pretty much any casting class. Then on the human side you could go Fighter X Paladin X (for the mount) /Master of Chains X || Unarmed Sword Sage 12 and take all the Desert Wind maneuvers.

[Venger]

So, assuming you can buyoff the +1 LA and you can purchase that ritual for 56k, I've got two builds for the spirit of vengeance.

Divine: Cleric 7 / Divine Disciple 5 / Fiend of Possession 6 (Available at ECL 20 with Leadership)

Arcane: Sorcerer 5 / Fiend-Blooded 10 / Fiend of Possession 6 (Available at ECL 23 with Leadership)

Looking like this is an epic build if I want to use Dvati... :smallfrown:

I guess Ghost Rider is fighting demons on a regular basis...

Edit:
In gestalt, you could Go Sorcerer 12 || Unholy Scion 5 / Dvati 1 / Fiend of Possession 6, which gets you to your "end" point more quickly. You can sub out Sorcerer for pretty much any casting class. Then on the human side you could go Fighter X Paladin X (for the mount) /Master of Chains X || Unarmed Sword Sage 12 and take all the Desert Wind maneuvers.

Huh?

The only limiting factor is the 56k, which is available in game if you get creative (assuming your gm doesn't lock you down) you meet the other mechanical prereqs of FoP at level 6, letting you enter it at 7 since that's a higher priority than casting.

[LoyalPaladin]

Huh?

The only limiting factor is the 56k, which is available in game if you get creative (assuming your gm doesn't lock you down) you meet the other mechanical prereqs of FoP at level 6, letting you enter it at 7 since that's a higher priority than casting.
I'm not sure I understand...

[Venger]

I'm not sure I understand...

all FoP requires is aside from outsider with evil subtype is a base will save of +5. when you are a sorcerer5/fiend-blooded 1, you meet this requirement. assuming you are able to get your hands on 56k for the ritual before it's time to take your next level, you will be able to enter fiend of possession straight away.

if money is your only limiting factor, then just take FoP whenever you can afford it and you'll very easily be able to finish it pre-epic. you don't need the final level of fiend-blooded since you're already an outsider.

[LoyalPaladin]

all FoP requires is aside from outsider with evil subtype is a base will save of +5. when you are a sorcerer5/fiend-blooded 1, you meet this requirement. assuming you are able to get your hands on 56k for the ritual before it's time to take your next level, you will be able to enter fiend of possession straight away.

if money is your only limiting factor, then just take FoP whenever you can afford it and you'll very easily be able to finish it pre-epic. you don't need the final level of fiend-blooded since you're already an outsider.
Wait... Does the ritual make you an outsider?

[Venger]

Wait... Does the ritual make you an outsider?

the ritual gives you the [evil] subtype. if you can roll neraph or one of the other races who can become an outsider, you can go with the listed build. if you want to be a dvati, then take 5 levels of a transformative prc instead.

[Extra Anchovies]

If you can get some Pathfinder content approved, consider a symbiotic Dullahan (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/dullahan)-hosting-Flaming-Beheaded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/beheaded/flaming-skull) (with the Dullahan's cold damage swapped to fire). You've come back from Hell to collect the souls of the damned, your head has been replaced with a flaming skull, you can summon a fiendish warhorse motorcycle at will, and once per day you can mark someone for death (with a harder save if you speak their name).

It may not be practical as a player character, but now that I've come up with this I'll have to use it as a one-shot tongue-in-cheek NPC sometime.

[LoyalPaladin]

If you can get some Pathfinder content approved, consider a symbiotic Dullahan (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/dullahan)-hosting-Flaming-Beheaded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/beheaded/flaming-skull) (with the Dullahan's cold damage swapped to fire). You've come back from Hell to collect the souls of the damned, your head has been replaced with a flaming skull, you can summon a fiendish warhorse motorcycle at will, and once per day you can mark someone for death (with a harder save if you speak their name).

It may not be practical as a player character, but now that I've come up with this I'll have to use it as a one-shot tongue-in-cheek NPC sometime.
That's awesome haha. I'm currently working on the gestalt version this. Hmmmm. So much cheese.

[Ezekiul]

This is a little complicated to me, just because I'm not so up to speed on Binder. But from what I know, it looks pretty good. I like the fiend of possession in the motorcycle haha.


Binder can bind vestiges to get 3-5 special abilities from the vestige (there are 46 of them ranking from levels 1 to 8) that can be anything from skill bonuses to breath weapons. As they get higher levels they can bind more vestiges at a time. The Binder Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2942.0) has a good summary of each of the vestiges.

If you want to simplify it a bit more you could be a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer for 2 less spells known at each level (so basically you'll only have 1-2 spells known at each level for your whole career).



So how are you persisting spells? I'm also curious how you get Fiend of Possession early on.


the Anima mage prestige class at levels 5, 7, and 9 gives a free use of metamagic per day (for 3/day at 9) in exchange for shutting down or vestige abilities for several rounds, and we use that to fuel our persisted spells.

The fastest free way i could think of for your cohort to get into FoP is a Diabolus from dragon compendium (1 LA) with the Divine Minion of Sebek (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) (for another +1 LA for a total of 2 LA) then multiclassing into 3 high will save classes (i'd suggest Marshal, Cleric, and Incarnate) for a FoP at ECL 6 (so a level 9 leadership feat and you can bump the arcane disciple feat from the build i suggested earlier to level 12).

[Snowbluff]

If you can get some Pathfinder content approved, consider a symbiotic Dullahan (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/dullahan)-hosting-Flaming-Beheaded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/beheaded/flaming-skull) (with the Dullahan's cold damage swapped to fire). You've come back from Hell to collect the souls of the damned, your head has been replaced with a flaming skull, you can summon a fiendish warhorse motorcycle at will, and once per day you can mark someone for death (with a harder save if you speak their name).

It may not be practical as a player character, but now that I've come up with this I'll have to use it as a one-shot tongue-in-cheek NPC sometime.
I'd say Synthesist if you were doing PF. :p

[jedikiller]

I think it would be cool to do a ghost rider character. For one you would want the bone creature template from the Book of Vile Darkness supplement. That would allow you to keep your class abilities while still keeping Ghost Rider's skeletal look. Secondly, I think you should take the fighter class. That would allow you to have the bonus feats to spend on mounted combat feats as well as exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain). I think wearing spiked full plate with the spikes having the flame enchantment because the spikes can be enchanted just as a weapon. I think you should max out your ride and handle animal skills. These skills will help you become the mounted warrior that I see as being Ghost Rider. I think that you should take all of the melee oriented mounted feats because your main weapon would indeed be a spiked chain. I think overall Ghost Rider would be cool as a D&D character. :smallsmile:

[Venger]

I think it would be cool to do a ghost rider character. For one you would want the bone creature template from the Book of Vile Darkness supplement. That would allow you to keep your class abilities while still keeping Ghost Rider's skeletal look. Secondly, I think you should take the fighter class. That would allow you to have the bonus feats to spend on mounted combat feats as well as exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain). I think wearing spiked full plate with the spikes having the flame enchantment because the spikes can be enchanted just as a weapon. I think you should max out your ride and handle animal skills. These skills will help you become the mounted warrior that I see as being Ghost Rider. I think that you should take all of the melee oriented mounted feats because your main weapon would indeed be a spiked chain. I think overall Ghost Rider would be cool as a D&D character. :smallsmile:

Again, bone creature has no listed LA, so is not suitable for PCs.

[Snowbluff]

Have we suggested necropolitan yet? And just let your skin fall off?

[Venger]

Have we suggested necropolitan yet? And just let your skin fall off?

Nah, since he didn't seem super enthusiastic about undead type, but let's throw it on the pile for completeness's sake. Could always just fluff it like that, since all necropolitans look a little different.

[LoyalPaladin]

Have we suggested necropolitan yet? And just let your skin fall off?

Nah, since he didn't seem super enthusiastic about undead type, but let's throw it on the pile for completeness's sake. Could always just fluff it like that, since all necropolitans look a little different.
I wanted to go from normal human too crazy undead. If I could just build two PC's and swap them at-will, I would.

[jedikiller]

Again, bone creature has no listed LA, so is not suitable for PCs.
You can just do lich instead :smallyuk:

[Venger]

You can just do lich instead :smallyuk:

lich is not worth 5 levels.

[Lorddenorstrus]

I wanted to go from normal human too crazy undead. If I could just build two PC's and swap them at-will, I would.

See this is what I'm most interested in, do you lot come up with a way to give this character a transformation that changes them to undead type.

[jedikiller]

lich is not worth 5 levels.

Then death knight template it is worth five levels :smallsigh:

[Venger]

See this is what I'm most interested in, do you lot come up with a way to give this character a transformation that changes them to undead type.

there are a number of spells, effects, and items that will do this, such as veil of undeath, kiss of the vampire, or a skull talisman, which give various undead-like immunities.

[Lorddenorstrus]

there are a number of spells, effects, and items that will do this, such as veil of undeath, kiss of the vampire, or a skull talisman, which give various undead-like immunities.

Yes, but I mean transformative similar to the Hulk build where people rage out and size increase. It's about the mechanics perfectly fitting the fluff. Frankly the undead immunities aren't the important part, it's about going from human > crazy undead that blows **** up.

[jedikiller]

To me death knight seems a viable choice for a template because not only do you get a badass nightmare mount, you also can still get that cool Ghost Rider look. (nightmare is cooler than motorcycle anyways) :smallsigh:

[Snowbluff]

I wanted to go from normal human too crazy undead. If I could just build two PC's and swap them at-will, I would.

Blighter gets Undead Wildshape, but it only works with animal forms. :smallyuk:

Wildshape into a Skeletal Gorilla or Legendary Ape?

[Draconium]

Blighter gets Undead Wildshape, but it only works with animal forms. :smallyuk:

And one level of Master of Many Forms gets you Improved Wild Shape (Humanoid). Couldn't you conceivably combine the two?

[Heliomance]

It's Pathfinder content, but the Synthesist Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist) seems to do what you want fairly well. Alternatively, The Giant's Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9623431&postcount=9)

[lylsyly]

Huecuva, (an undead creature created from a cleric, druid, paladin, or monk who failed in its vows) (FF p94)

Skeleton wearing its tattered vestments & vague memories of its previous life. Acquired Template that can be applied to any Humanoid with at least one level of Cleric,
Druid, Paladin, or Monk..

Try this one.

[LoyalPaladin]

Try this one.
That's a really cool template. Holy smokes.

[Venger]

huecuva was never updated, so has no listed level adjustment for a PC to use.

[Rijan_Sai]

huecuva was never updated, so has no listed level adjustment for a PC to use.

That's true, but there have ben "debates" over whether a template lacking LA meant that it would be effectively LA0, since:

Generally, if a template does not cause a change to a certain statistic, that entry is missing from the template description. For clarity, the entry for a statistic or attribute that is not changed is sometimes given as “Same as the base creature.”

("Sometimes" bolded for emphasis; so "not always")

Thus, it is generally concluded (from what I've seen) that templates that lack an LA do not change the LA of the base creature.

[Andezzar]

This quote points in the right direction, but Fiend Folio makes it unambiguous:

The huecuva uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.Emphasis mine. Since no LA is mentioned, it uses the base creature's LA (if it has one).

[lylsyly]

Not to mention that (Acquired Template that can be applied to any Humanoid with at least one level of Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Monk..) seems says that it can be applied to a character.

I know that it would fly in my group but YMMV.

[jedikiller]

Not to mention that (Acquired Template that can be applied to any Humanoid with at least one level of Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Monk..) seems says that it can be applied to a character.

I know that it would fly in my group but YMMV.

I think you should use that template with paladin levels.

[Fizban]

So you want a class that lets you suddenly switch from being one character to another. Not gonna find it outside of homebrew. And if we're looking at homebrew nothing's gonna beat Servant Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?362608), which indeed recommends refluffing the individual heroic spirits to whatever is appropriate whenever desired. Ghost Rider? Medusa's Gorgon Breaker will stagger/petrify/no-save petrify people by staring at them, she uses a spiked chain, and she has an alternate install with a flying mount. Convert to bones and hellfire theme with motorcycle instead of pegasus, maybe take Brand of the Nine Hells+Mark of Nessus so you can set your head (natural weapon: unarmed strike [headbutt]) on fire at will.

Don't want other heroic spirits for other aspects of the character? ACF them away. Don't want spellcasting? ACF it away.