You help me (with the OGL) and I'll help you (make monsters)

[BaronWiggle]

Hey guys! First post and I'm going straight for the pleading for help, specifically with the whole OGL thing wizards have got going on. But hopefully it'll all be worth your time.

I've spent the last few days working on a pretty comprehensive online monster maker that I'm hoping to roll out to you lovely (or cruel if you prefer) DMs. My only concern is having Wizards come along and backhand me with some legal whatnottery that I didn't understand.

So do any of you know which, if any, parts of the Creating a Monster rules in the back of the DM guide are covered under the OGL and what I need to look out for to stop myself getting a stern telling off?

[SharkForce]

they have an OGL SRD out, do they not? if it isn't in there, it isn't OGL.

[JeffreyGator]

Generally, staying away from pictures and story but I think most all monsters in the MM are in the SRD with stats only.

[GlenSmash!]

Here is the 5E OGL and SRD.

http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/SRD-OGL_V1.1.pdf

Monsters begin on page 264. You may use any of them.

[SharkForce]

i believe you are all misunderstanding. he didn't ask what monsters are OGL compatible. he asked which parts of the rules for creating new monsters are OGL. as i read it, he's not creating a tool for looking at the stats of existing monsters, but rather at creating a tool that will help you design new monsters that are not in the monster manual.

(of course, posting the actual OGL and SRD is helpful regardless, so thanks for providing the links i was too lazy to dig up for him :P )

[BaronWiggle]

Yep. SharkForce is right, although thanks for the resource.

This is where i'm confused. Between all of the monsters that are in the SRD all of the features from the Creating a monster section of the DM guide are available. As is CR, Attributes, HP, AC and dice rolls.

One could arguably piece together the Creating a monster rules by just using the SRD but they aren't explicitly present.

You know what, I'm not going to be charging for this thing anyway so I think I'll just risk it. Worst case scenario, they tell me to take it down.

[Arkhios]

Worst case scenario, they tell me to take it down.

If they do, why not try to strike a bargain, offering your services as to maintain such a tool for them, since clearly WOTC staff are not skilled at handling stuff like that, like at all. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

[BaronWiggle]

Agreed. Their website is a mess.

Well, when I've finished this thing I'll post a link in a thread here and you lot can pick it apart.

[GlenSmash!]

i believe you are all misunderstanding. he didn't ask what monsters are OGL compatible. he asked which parts of the rules for creating new monsters are OGL. as i read it, he's not creating a tool for looking at the stats of existing monsters, but rather at creating a tool that will help you design new monsters that are not in the monster manual.

(of course, posting the actual OGL and SRD is helpful regardless, so thanks for providing the links i was too lazy to dig up for him :P )

Thanks for clarifying. I clearly misunderstood.

BaronWiggle, I'm looking forward to your work. I can never get enough monsters, though I'll never get through a quarter of what's in the MM, 5th Edition Foes, Tome of Beasts, and Volo's Guide.

[Chaosvii7]

I'm actually pretty sure that none of the monster creation rules are OGL. The license includes minimal content from the DMG, mostly just magic items, and the monster creation rules are only available out of that book. That doesn't mean that you couldn't make a program that lets you make a statblock and include a database of all of the OGL monster's abilities (like an orc's relentless or the legendary actions of an ancient red dragon), but you couldn't have the program say, auto-calculate CRs based on the defensive and offensive stats of the monster.

That said, a program that does that would still be pretty useful, because I hate having to write out duplicate versions of monster abilities when I'm using the tools already available. If I could hit a button to add a new ability and choose from a predetermined list (unless I need to write a custom one of course) that would save me a lot of time making most of my NPCs.

[Zorku]

Very nice. I had a spreadsheet half put together for this purpose a few months back, but ended up yak shaving to try and make some frivolous macros work. I wanted to create a page of abbreviated stat blocks like in some angrydm article, but I was a little out of my amateur-programmer depth trying to make some of the formatting automatic.

[BaronWiggle]

To update:
I've been given a minor wrist slap by the mods for cutting too close to asking for legal advice. So keep that in mind.

I've shot wizards themselves an e-mail. I hope they don't just shoot me down off handedly. I hope they actually give me the honest lo-down.

I'll keep you informed.

[SharkForce]

I'm actually pretty sure that none of the monster creation rules are OGL. The license includes minimal content from the DMG, mostly just magic items, and the monster creation rules are only available out of that book. That doesn't mean that you couldn't make a program that lets you make a statblock and include a database of all of the OGL monster's abilities (like an orc's relentless or the legendary actions of an ancient red dragon), but you couldn't have the program say, auto-calculate CRs based on the defensive and offensive stats of the monster.

That said, a program that does that would still be pretty useful, because I hate having to write out duplicate versions of monster abilities when I'm using the tools already available. If I could hit a button to add a new ability and choose from a predetermined list (unless I need to write a custom one of course) that would save me a lot of time making most of my NPCs.

it might actually be allowed if he does it right. last i recall, mechanics can't be made into IP (the words you use to describe them can, but the mechanics themselves can't). though of course, it would be a good idea to consult with an actual IP lawyer on that rather than some random nobody on the internet. or at least do a bit more thorough research on it than some random nobody on the internet saying they think they heard this thing one time.

[BaronWiggle]

Well... I've got good news and I've got bad news...

The bad news is that WoTC got back to me and forbade me to use the Creating a Monster rules. They said that this might not always be the case, but it very much looked like a generic response to me.
Which means that my little project will likely not have all the bells and whistles, such as calculating CR, etc.

The good news is... that this thing just got a whole lot easier to code! Now that I don't need to worry about adjusting effective stats and averaging offensive and defensive CRs, I can just concentrate on having a no fuss, easy to use monster stat block putter togetherer.

I'm not far off done, so I'll post the finished product up here when I'm ready.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys, its good to know that even a watered down version of this will be considered useful. :smallsmile:

[SharkForce]

it is worth noting that the company themselves are probably not the best people to ask.

essentially, the way US IP law works goes something like this:

if you don't scream bloody murder every time someone does anything that is remotely similar to your work without licensing it from you, and otherwise act like a rabid dog, you might lose your IP.

now, this is positively moronic, but that's how it is, and there is basically no chance of a company the size of WotC is going to change it.

which means that unless they invest in a lawyer to answer your question, there is pretty much only one safe answer any time someone asks if they can use something, and that answer is no. from the sound of things, they were relatively pleasant about it, which is nice; they didn't threaten to sue or send you a cease and desist letter, for example.

but ultimately, there is no way they could take the risk of saying yes without first consulting a lawyer, which costs money, and there is practically speaking no way they're going to pay lawyer fees every time someone asks a question, which is probably why you got a form letter (to make sure that nobody says anything that might be misconstrued as something that would weaken their claim on their own IP)... it sounds ridiculous, but it is entirely possible that someone at some point reached the conclusion that they could not even safely say no unless they say it in a specific way. heck, i wouldn't even be surprised if your form letter didn't even say yes or no, but was merely a general statement that you can use what the OGL allows, without specifying whether the thing you asked about is part of that or not. after all, if they answer that you can't use it and you should be allowed to (and again, getting a correct answer likely involves asking a lawyer, which involves paying money), some jerk will probably try to sue them, and if they say you can use it and you shouldn't be allowed to, they just potentially lost a part of their IP.

on the other hand, if you're not willing to pay an IP lawyer yourself (or otherwise consult one, if you have a relative or friend who does that sort of lawyering for example), you're probably also better off just not using those rules anyways.