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Oramac
2016-10-19, 09:26 AM
Gunslinger Martial Archetype

The Gunslinger is a fast talker. They’re always able to come up with a witty comeback, or a quippy remark to ease the tension of any situation. They usually prefer to work alone or in small groups, and they can have all manner of backgrounds and motivations, though they tend towards the chaotic. Their volatile nature lends them well to the use of firearms, an unpredictable weapon with great potential for good or evil.

Firearm Proficiency
When you take this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with firearms. See the table in the DMG (p. 268) for firearm stats, and discuss which types are applicable with your DM.

Grit
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the Grit of an experienced gunman, which is used to fuel maneuvers.

Maneuvers: You learn three maneuvers of your choice, which are detailed under “Maneuvers” below. Many maneuvers enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one maneuver per attack. You learn two additional maneuvers of your choice at 7th, 10th, and 15th level. Each time you learn new maneuvers, you can also replace one maneuver you know with a different one. You may not use any weapon other than a firearm when you use a Maneuver.

Grit. You have four Grit points. A Grit point is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended Grit when you finish a short or long rest. You gain another Grit point at 7th level and one more at 15th level.

Saving Throws. Some of your maneuvers require your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:
Maneuver save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice)

Quick Talker: At 7th level, your skill speaking to those around you increases. You have advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks.

Brutal Critical: At 10th level, your aim improves. You score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

True Grit: Beginning at 15th level, when you roll initiative and have no Grit left, you gain 2 Grit.

Maneuvers:

Deadeye: When you take the attack action, you may spend 1 Grit to gain advantage your next attack this turn.

Snap Shot: When you are hit with a melee or ranged attack or spell, you may use your reaction and spend 1 Grit to make one weapon attack against your attacker.

Trick Shot: When making an attack against a target that can see you, you may spend 1 Grit to attempt to intimidate the target with a flashy display of gunmanship. If the attack hits, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target is frightened until the beginning of your next turn. If you are proficient in the Intimidation skill, the target has disadvantage on the save.

Gunslinger’s Edge: You may spend 1 Grit to gain advantage on the next Strength or Dexterity check you make.

Suppressed Shot: You may spend 1 Grit to suppress the sound of your firearm for one turn. When used in this manner, attacking while hidden does not reveal your position.

Through and Through: As an attack action with a rifle, you may spend 1 Grit and take a -2 on the attack roll to attempt to shoot through the soft tissue of a creature and hit a target beyond it. Make an attack roll against the target further from you. If the attack hits, the target you shot through takes 1d4 piercing damage, and the main target of the attack takes the normal attack damage. To use this option, the creature you shoot through must be Large or smaller and both targets must be in a line and within the short range of your firearm.

Curve the Bullet: With a pistol, you can spend 1 Grit and take a -5 penalty to the attack roll to attempt to curve the bullet around corners. If the attack hits, the target takes the normal attack damage plus 10, as it is surprised by the hit. To use this option, you must have seen the target within the last turn before it went around the corner, and it must have been within the short range of your firearm.

Explosive Shot: You may spend 1 Grit to load your firearm with an explosive round. Make a ranged attack roll against a target you can see within range. If the attack hits, the target takes the normal attack damage. Hit or miss, the round then explodes. The target and each creature within 5 feet of the target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 fire damage.

Precision Shot: You may spend 1 Grit to make a precision shot against an object. You may not move for one turn while lining up this shot. Make a ranged attack roll against the object. If the object is stationary, you gain a +5 to the attack roll in addition to your normal attack bonus. If the attack hits, the object is affected in a way deemed most appropriate by the DM. For example, a rope may be cut, a lock broken open, or a bell may be rung. You may use Precision Shot with other maneuvers by spending additional Grit points.

Bean Bag Round: You may spend 1 Grit to load a bean bag round in your firearm. Make a ranged attack roll. If the attack hits, the target takes 1d4 bludgeoning damage and must make a constitution saving throw or be stunned until the beginning of its next turn. The target must be within the short range of your firearm.

Flash-Bang: As an action, you may spend 2 Grit to toss a flash-bang. You may toss it up to 30 feet to a point you can see. At the end of your turn a loud blast originates from that point, and any creature within 30 feet without full cover must make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded and deafened until the beginning of your next turn.

Changes:
Updated to specify that Maneuvers require a firearm
Updated Deadeye to only work with one attack
Specified that Snap Shot does not work against AOE spells or spells that do not deal damage.

Oramac
2016-10-19, 09:31 AM
Reserved, just in case.

Rerem115
2016-10-19, 12:34 PM
I don't like using Grit points to create items. How come the Gunslinger is the only one that can toss a flashbang? Flashbangs aren't that complicated to use; arm, throw, close eyes for boom. Furthermore, where is he keeping his items? Does he craft them out of the aether when he spends grit points? What's stopping me from handing them out to the party, besides balance concerns?

Also, you didn't specify whether or not you had to be wielding a firearm to make use of some of your Maneuvers. This could lead to some abuse; with only 3 level of fighter, 4 times per short rest you can gain advantage for a round or attack as a reaction, no matter what weapon you're using, RAW. Can I hear a "Yes, please" from the rogue?

On the topic of Maneuvers, Deadeye and Snapshot are probably too strong. Essentially at-will advantage is extremely strong, and a guaranteed AoO is essentially Extra Attack two levels early. I'm not sure how you would balance that, but as is, it's just too much.

Oramac
2016-10-19, 12:52 PM
I don't like using Grit points to create items. How come the Gunslinger is the only one that can toss a flashbang? Flashbangs aren't that complicated to use; arm, throw, close eyes for boom. Furthermore, where is he keeping his items? Does he craft them out of the aether when he spends grit points? What's stopping me from handing them out to the party, besides balance concerns?

Good point. And one I don't really have an answer for. Basically, I think there should be a cost to using some things (flashbangs, for instance), and Grit was the simplest way to do that, as it's basically just Superiority Dice without actually rolling another dice.

Would adding a gold cost to some of the Maneuvers make sense? For example: requiring the PC to spend 50-ish gp to buy/build a suppressor to use with Silenced Shot.


Also, you didn't specify whether or not you had to be wielding a firearm to make use of some of your Maneuvers. This could lead to some abuse; with only 3 level of fighter, 4 times per short rest you can gain advantage for a round or attack as a reaction, no matter what weapon you're using, RAW. Can I hear a "Yes, please" from the rogue?

Good catch! You're right. I'll add a line under Maneuvers specifying that they cannot be used with any weapon other than a firearm.


On the topic of Maneuvers, Deadeye and Snapshot are probably too strong. Essentially at-will advantage is extremely strong, and a guaranteed AoO is essentially Extra Attack two levels early. I'm not sure how you would balance that, but as is, it's just too much.

I agree about Deadeye. I'll change it to the next attack instead of all attacks.

But I don't agree about Snapshot. It's essentially the same as Riposte than the current Battlemaster has, except that Snapshot activates on being hit rather than being missed. I will specify that it does not work against AOE spells or spells that don't deal damage.

Rerem115
2016-10-19, 01:40 PM
Good point. And one I don't really have an answer for. Basically, I think there should be a cost to using some things (flashbangs, for instance), and Grit was the simplest way to do that, as it's basically just Superiority Dice without actually rolling another dice.

I totally understand where you're coming from for this. If this was a console or computer RPG, it would work just fine; you could just chalk it up to the constraints of the rules. The open-ended nature of D&D makes things more complicated. I just had an image of a buck naked Gunslinger throwing beanbags and grenades, much to the confusion of everyone nearby :smalltongue:. I'm not sure how to balance around this; maybe look towards the poultice system of one of the UA? rangers. A crafting system would definitely make more sense, but would probably require a pretty significant revamp. However, if your campaign runs on Rule of Cool, it would probably work as-is.


But I don't agree about Snapshot. It's essentially the same as Riposte than the current Battlemaster has, except that Snapshot activates on being hit rather than being missed. I will specify that it does not work against AOE spells or spells that don't deal damage.

Fair enough. It's still arguably better than Riposte, one of the best Battlemaster maneuvers, though, since you don't have to be in melee range to use it. I'd recommend playtesting it and see how it actually functions. It's probably not broken, but I'd be careful.

Oramac
2016-10-19, 02:06 PM
I totally understand where you're coming from for this. If this was a console or computer RPG, it would work just fine; you could just chalk it up to the constraints of the rules. The open-ended nature of D&D makes things more complicated. I just had an image of a buck naked Gunslinger throwing beanbags and grenades, much to the confusion of everyone nearby :smalltongue:. I'm not sure how to balance around this; maybe look towards the poultice system of one of the UA? rangers. A crafting system would definitely make more sense, but would probably require a pretty significant revamp. However, if your campaign runs on Rule of Cool, it would probably work as-is.

Just spitballing here.

How about some flavor text along the lines of:

"Gunslingers often carry specialty pistols in addition to their standard firearm. The specialty weapons have limited uses, but offer other advantages in the heat of combat, such as exploding ammunition, bean-bag rounds, or using a suppressor."

This would actually open up the opportunity for other maneuvers as well, such as a flare gun or something.


Fair enough. It's still arguably better than Riposte, one of the best Battlemaster maneuvers, though, since you don't have to be in melee range to use it. I'd recommend playtesting it and see how it actually functions. It's probably not broken, but I'd be careful.

True enough. It'll definitely need playtesting, as would the rest of the Archetype.

Fishyninja
2017-01-03, 12:14 PM
Following from the Homebrew Playtest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510792-Homebrew-Playtest-Request-thread&p=21557163#post21557163) Thread

Ok I like the diea of Grit, (from Pathfinder if I recall).
I'm assuming this is the archetype of a rogue or fighter?

Because I was thinking it could be it's on class with Cha and Dex saves and a 1d10 Hit Die.

Lets look at the skills:

At 7th level, your skill speaking to those around you increases. You have advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks.
I like this a lot, I would have renamed it to Silver Tongued Devil myself but that was what I was aiming at in the build I was thinking of.
Another option instead of Quick Talker could be:
At 7th Level, your time wandering the wastes mean you gain the benefits of a long rest from a short rest, you can also make trail rations which last for 3 days for up to 2 people and become proficient in Animal Handling

Brutal Critical: At 10th level, your aim improves. You score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.Also very good, another name could be 6lbs of Pressure (Average pressure requried to pull a traditional 1800's revolver)

Also I have no issues with True Grit.

Now onto the Manevers.
Only ones I have issue with are:


Curve the Bullet *Shudder*
Precision Shot
Bean Bag Round


Curve the bullet bugs me solely just for physics of it....I know D&D fantasy RPG but I work with firearms and this works me. If you want to have a suprise attack of some sort you could change this to something like
When an Enemy within 10ft attacks you, as a reaction you can kick dust into their face. The enemy must make a Con Save, if they fail they have Disadvantage on Attacks for the next 2 round and you can deal an extra 1d4 of damage with weapon attacks.

The only thing about precision shot that bugs me is the target must be stationary. A minor quibble but I feel that the enemy is not going to be standing around waiting to be shot. It smacks a little of the sharpshooter feat.

Instead of Flashbang I feel you need a different stun option
You can spend 1 grit point to attempt a melee strike with the stock or grip of your weapon, as you are proficient in firearms you gain the your proficient modifer to the attack roll. If the attack hits, the enemy must have a con save, upon failing they take 1d6 of damage and are stunned for 2 rounds, spending 2 grit points can allow the player to try and knock the enemy prone with an increased Con Save DC.

Oramac
2017-01-03, 12:44 PM
Following from the Homebrew Playtest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510792-Homebrew-Playtest-Request-thread&p=21557163#post21557163) Thread

Ok I like the diea of Grit, (from Pathfinder if I recall).
I'm assuming this is the archetype of a rogue or fighter?

Because I was thinking it could be it's on class with Cha and Dex saves and a 1d10 Hit Die.

It's based on the Fighter chassis. More specifically, the Gunslinger that Matt Mercer made for Critical Role, except that I didn't much care for his interpretation. So I made my own. :)


Lets look at the skills:

At 7th level, your skill speaking to those around you increases. You have advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks.
I like this a lot, I would have renamed it to Silver Tongued Devil myself but that was what I was aiming at in the build I was thinking of.
Another option instead of Quick Talker could be:
At 7th Level, your time wandering the wastes mean you gain the benefits of a long rest from a short rest, you can also make trail rations which last for 3 days for up to 2 people and become proficient in Animal Handling

Thanks. I'm probably going to keep this as-is, since it fits the theme I'm going for. Home on the Range seems good, but the long/short rest thing might be a bit OP, I think.


Brutal Critical: At 10th level, your aim improves. You score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.Also very good, another name could be 6lbs of Pressure (Average pressure requried to pull a traditional 1800's revolver)

Also I have no issues with True Grit.

While I know what you're talking about with the 6 pounds of pressure, I think the average D&D player probably would not, sadly.


Now onto the Manevers.
Only ones I have issue with are:


Curve the Bullet *Shudder*
Precision Shot
Bean Bag Round


Curve the bullet bugs me solely just for physics of it....I know D&D fantasy RPG but I work with firearms and this works me. If you want to have a suprise attack of some sort you could change this to something like

Haha! Trust me, I know the physics is stupid. I'm a firearms enthusiast myself. The maneuver was based on the movie "Wanted". Not a great movie, but it was fun, and I thought the maneuver would give the gunslinger something unique in D&D: the ability to shoot around corners.


When an Enemy within 10ft attacks you, as a reaction you can kick dust into their face. The enemy must make a Con Save, if they fail they have Disadvantage on Attacks for the next 2 round and you can deal an extra 1d4 of damage with weapon attacks.

That's......OP. But I really do like the concept. I think I can turn it into a new maneuver. Good idea.


The only thing about precision shot that bugs me is the target must be stationary. A minor quibble but I feel that the enemy is not going to be standing around waiting to be shot. It smacks a little of the sharpshooter feat.

The idea was that a player would use this against non-combat things. Like cutting a rope from range or ringing a bell. But the object doesn't have to be stationary. You just get a bonus to hit if it is.


Instead of Flashbang I feel you need a different stun option
You can spend 1 grit point to attempt a melee strike with the stock or grip of your weapon, as you are proficient in firearms you gain the your proficient modifer to the attack roll. If the attack hits, the enemy must have a con save, upon failing they take 1d6 of damage and are stunned for 2 rounds, spending 2 grit points can allow the player to try and knock the enemy prone with an increased Con Save DC.

Reminds me of the Smuggler/Commando in SWTOR. Definitely something to look at for another maneuver.

Thanks for the feedback!! I appreciate it all.

Fishyninja
2017-01-03, 01:12 PM
Haha! Trust me, I know the physics is stupid. I'm a firearms enthusiast myself. The maneuver was based on the movie "Wanted". Not a great movie, but it was fun, and I thought the maneuver would give the gunslinger something unique in D&D: the ability to shoot around corners.

You're Right, It wasn't a great movie, it was awful :smalltongue: