Time Stop

[Calthropstu]

Up until recently, I never really considered how time stop really works.

No PC really has enough time to do much with it, and its uses are very limited by duration and action sequence. So the idea of what happens to gravity and other issues never really came into play.

But then Paizo made mythic augmented time stop which lasts 1 hour per lvl.

The applications are literally limitless. So it begs the question of how timestop really works. Do falling objects still fall? All it says is "unattended objects may be interacted with normally."

If someone were to, say use this time to craft, how would other gm's handle this?

[Crake]

Up until recently, I never really considered how time stop really works.

No PC really has enough time to do much with it, and its uses are very limited by duration and action sequence. So the idea of what happens to gravity and other issues never really came into play.

But then Paizo made mythic augmented time stop which lasts 1 hour per lvl.

The applications are literally limitless. So it begs the question of how timestop really works. Do falling objects still fall? All it says is "unattended objects may be interacted with normally."

If someone were to, say use this time to craft, how would other gm's handle this?

Have you seen any of the new xmen movies? Remember the quicksilver scenes? It's like that.

Edit: Except you can't interact with creatures

[weckar]

You can't interact with creatures DIRECTLY. You are entirely free to remove the floor from beneath their feet or hang an anvil over their heads.

[Necroticplague]

The applications are literally limitless. So it begs the question of how timestop really works. Do falling objects still fall? All it says is "unattended objects may be interacted with normally."

If someone were to, say use this time to craft, how would other gm's handle this?

No. Falling objects you aren't interacting with can't fall while time is stopped. Falling requires time to pass. No time passing=no falling. Now, the caster is still subject to gravity as normal, as are any objects they attend. Put it's entirely possible for them to pick up something, fiddle put it, and it simply start floating in the air when they let go of it.

As for handling it, what's there to handle? Crafting stuff isn't inherently broken, and all this is doing is shortening the time. And since everyone else is frozen, they're gonna need to carry all the materials they need themselves.

[Calthropstu]

You can't interact with creatures DIRECTLY. You are entirely free to remove the floor from beneath their feet or hang an anvil over their heads.

With mythic augmented time stop, you are free to get seriously creative. Make an iron ball 20 feet around. Cast a spell to prevent dimensional travel. Cast prismatic sphere. Place a box around him, lined with lead, with a 1 foot lining of adamantium. Flood the box with lava. Prismatic wall the entire box on all sides.

Add an anti magic field for good measure in the box. This should kill 90-99% of all characters. Unless they are immune to suffocation AND fire, they are toast (pun intended). Alternatively, if you know they are completely immune to fire, filling the whole thing with acid is a good substitute. So Immune to both fire AND acid AND don't have to breathe. Without magic.

[Braininthejar2]

And now I want to re-create the Quicksilver scene from DoFP with time stop and a bag of holding full of anvils.

[Calthropstu]

No. Falling objects you aren't interacting with can't fall while time is stopped. Falling requires time to pass. No time passing=no falling. Now, the caster is still subject to gravity as normal, as are any objects they attend. Put it's entirely possible for them to pick up something, fiddle put it, and it simply start floating in the air when they let go of it.

As for handling it, what's there to handle? Crafting stuff isn't inherently broken, and all this is doing is shortening the time. And since everyone else is frozen, they're gonna need to carry all the materials they need themselves.

The wording on mythic augmented time stop is such that you MUST have a ring of sustenance to do just about anything. "Resting gains no benefit" while in this time stop, so that means pure and total exhaustion without a ring. But there's more questions besides. Sure, you can craft... but anything that requires setting? How are you going to cool something from a forge? And the spells? Do they take effect immediately? Or do you have to wait? The way I see crafting is much like normal crafting. You could craft a basket easily enough, but a blade which must be dipped in a hot furnace and hammered and cooled?

There's a huge number of "errrrr... uhhhh... I don't know?" moments when it comes to things like that.

Also, do traps count as unattended objects? And do spell traps trigger as you pass? In theory you could waltz straight through even the most well protected dungeons and take the most powerful artifact in existence with this.

[AvatarVecna]

There's a huge number of "errrrr... uhhhh... I don't know?" moments when it comes to things like that.

That tends to happen when designers take a spell that already bends the laws of physics over its knee, and made it even worse. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

That tends to happen when designers take a spell that already bends the laws of physics over its knee, and made it even worse. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, but it's Mythic though. You're supposed to be snapping reality in half. If a GM can't come up with rulings for things like this, they shouldn't be allowing Mythic spells (certainly not Mythic 9s) at all.

[Calthropstu]

Yeah, but it's Mythic though. You're supposed to be snapping reality in half. If a GM can't come up with rulings for things like this, they shouldn't be allowing Mythic spells (certainly not Mythic 9s) at all.

The only time I allowed Mythic in my game, I specifically banned the augmented version of this spell. It was the only mythic ability I banned. The regular mythic time stop I was fine with.

But 1 hour per level of time stop is way way WAY too ridiculous. Everything else in that book I was ok with. This is almost on pun-pun level of broken.

However, I bring it up because there's a chance I may be able to play a mythic campaign. And this could be an option.

[Anthrowhale]

Time Stop provides enough time to cast Time Stop so there is at least the possibility of acquiring as much extra time as you want. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496834-The-Clockwork-Wizard-Everything-in-no-time) for how to exploit.

[Psyren]

Time Stop provides enough time to cast Time Stop so there is at least the possibility of acquiring as much extra time as you want. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496834-The-Clockwork-Wizard-Everything-in-no-time) for how to exploit.

I assume OP is playing Pathfinder (due to the reference to Paizo and Mythic) so not sure if this applies. I'd also never allow chaining time stop in general, you're already under the effects of the spell so casting it again should do nothing.

[Anthrowhale]

I assume OP is playing Pathfinder (due to the reference to Paizo and Mythic) so not sure if this applies.


I don't know Pathfinder well enough to know if a similar effect can be accomplished there.



I'd also never allow chaining time stop in general, you're already under the effects of the spell so casting it again should do nothing.

The approach uses the "Same effect more than once in different strengths" rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects) so that when you cast a Time Stop in a Time Stop, you get max(remaining first Time Stop duration, second Time Stop duration) apparent time.

[Psyren]

I don't know Pathfinder well enough to know if a similar effect can be accomplished there.

From a brief glance at your link, I doubt it.


The approach uses the "Same effect more than once in different strengths" rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects) so that when you cast a Time Stop in a Time Stop, you get max(remaining first Time Stop duration, second Time Stop duration) apparent time.

Depends on how you define "strengths." What you're talking about here are two Time Stops with differing durations - does duration = strength?

[Calthropstu]

I assume OP is playing Pathfinder (due to the reference to Paizo and Mythic) so not sure if this applies. I'd also never allow chaining time stop in general, you're already under the effects of the spell so casting it again should do nothing.

Correct. Pathfinder eliminated much of the super cheese that could be utilized in 3.5 optimized builds. However, this spell is kind of super cheese in and of itself. As such, like I said, I do not allow the augmented version of this spell. Even so, the straight mythic version which allows you to select up to 5 people to come into the time stop with you is incredibly useful, and is usable just for that.

[Garktz]

From the Time stop spell description:
"This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds."

So, you are basically moving so fast that you get 1hour/level worth of actions in 1 single round.

To me, this means that you can basically do whatever you want but the actions that would normally take time to perform by themselves.
As an example take iron vs wood crafting

You could craft a sword made of wood, because you can cut the wood and shape it but you wouldnt be able to make an iron one because the fire wouldnt heat the iron so it wont melt...

Also, you could plant a tree but it wont grow, because its you who are speeded up, not the tree...
As gravity, yes, it does work and falling objects would still fall, but super slow to your view....
Let.s say object x is falling at 6 meters per round (6 sec) and you timestop being lvl 6 so 6 hours worth of actions.
Object x will fall at a speed of 1 meter per hour for you so it makes the 6 meters per round...


Not sure im being clear but subject is weird and english is not my natural language....

[Anthrowhale]

Depends on how you define "strengths." What you're talking about here are two Time Stops with differing durations - does duration = strength?

"Strengths" in this context is definition 5 here (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strength).


degree of potency of effect ... <chili peppers in varying strengths>

[Garktz]

I assume OP is playing Pathfinder (due to the reference to Paizo and Mythic) so not sure if this applies. I'd also never allow chaining time stop in general, you're already under the effects of the spell so casting it again should do nothing.


Besides if a given DM would or wouldnt allow it, it doesnt exactly stack to me....

You cast time stop and get 4 rounds worth of actions because you speeded up yourself so if during that time, you cast another time stop, you are not "speeding up" yourself for a longer time but you are speeding up even more, so you get more rounds inside the round you casted(not sure if you write it like that) the 1º spell

I.ll try to give an example to make myself clear and i.ll round up numbers to make it easier


at normal time, 1 turn is 4 sec
at "time stop" time 1 turn is 1 sec (so you get 4 turns for each normal turn as expected)
if you cast time stop again then
at "time stop 2" time 1 turn is .25 sec (so you get 4 turns in 1 "time stoped" turn) because you are "speeding up" faster to get the 1:4 ratio time stop gives you relative to the moment you cast it.....


As per how it would work, it just increases the rounds you get, however, you can fluff it (so you can ban it) that going that much faster simply kills you...


and again, sorry for my english

Edit.
I though of another and maybe easier example but with requirements (:P)

In the movie inception, you go into a dream and time goes slower so if you go into another dream inside the 1º dream, time goes slower relative to the 1º dream and even slower relative to real time
Now swap dreams with castings of time stop and you are set on how it works.
Also take into account that you are not dreaming but moving faster and faster with each cast until you just break because your body cant hold up

[Vogie]

The wording on mythic augmented time stop is such that you MUST have a ring of sustenance to do just about anything. "Resting gains no benefit" while in this time stop, so that means pure and total exhaustion without a ring. But there's more questions besides. Sure, you can craft... but anything that requires setting? How are you going to cool something from a forge? And the spells? Do they take effect immediately? Or do you have to wait? The way I see crafting is much like normal crafting. You could craft a basket easily enough, but a blade which must be dipped in a hot furnace and hammered and cooled?

Also, do traps count as unattended objects? And do spell traps trigger as you pass? In theory you could waltz straight through even the most well protected dungeons and take the most powerful artifact in existence with this.

Pretty much this.
To look up how it could "look like" Quicksilver from the XCU, The Flash & the Turtle from the ArrowVerse, and Hiro & Daphne from Heroes, and the strange Romantic Drama Cashback.
You can run around, tie everyone's shoes together, and mix things together but they won't react until time starts. You can steal or sharpen weapons, adjust arrows in flight, but you can't melt anything Traps would still trigger, but wouldn't be able to move until time starts. Anything you cast is like you're using the Still spell & silent spell metamagic feats, can't be reacted to easily, and don't "resolve" until time starts. If you fire a bullet, bolt or Arrow, they pause until time starts again.

You would be able to get through a whole lot of normal encounters, as long as a single person could get through the location in that period of time if there were no one in the way.

If you're worried about it as a DM, you could work around it by making an Observer, "Time Lord" or Time-based Deity who this does NOT stop, who tracks all that information, and starts going after the PC who is using it. Maybe steal some of the Paradox mechanics from Mage: The Ascension, where messing with the time too much starts impacting that PC. Fading out a la Back to the Future, accidentally knocking themselves into next week, et cetera, in addition to the normal downsides of needing to eat/sleep more and aging faster.

[Anthrowhale]

...at "time stop" time 1 turn is 1 sec (so you get 4 turns for each normal turn as expected)...


This is a heavy alteration to the rules. Mechanically, all the actions which Time Stop grants occur before any other actions by anyone else.