Nintendo Switch?!

[Hunter Noventa]

So, the official revealof the 'NX' is out, and it's the Nintendo Switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5uik5fgIaI

I'm rather conflicted about it myself. I can't imagine something like that having very good battery life, personally. And it wouldn't want to carry around something with a screen like that which could break easily, like the 3DS and Vita because they can fit in my pocket, that would need a carrying case and battery pack to be of any real use. And what's it going to do about DLC and Patches? Can't be much room for a hard drive int hat thing, the dock has to just be a charging station and TV connection.

It is interesting to see them going back to cartridges though, it looked very much like it took a 3DS-style cartridge.

Like any console, I'll have to see what games are coming for it. But it'll probably have the sequel to Xenoblade on it, which will anger me.

[Mando Knight]

It has Skyrim. Also NBA 2k and new versions of Splatoon (with at least new tentacle-dos for the inklings), Mario Kart, some other Mario game.

Use of SD-like cards for removable media the way the portables have since the DS is a good choice, IMO, as their data storage can actually get fairly large despite their small form factor (the SDXC format supports up to 2 TB, and even the older SDHC that the 3DS uses goes up to 32 GB, more than enough for any game on the PS4 or Xbox One), and the fact that they can hold their own save data will save space on the system's internal storage and make carrying extra games with you (it's at least as portable a gaming system as an iPad) easy.

I think that Nintendo will continue developing double-screen portables at a lower price point, however (Switch can't be anywhere as cheap as even a n3DSXL, let alone the 2DS), so don't count the 3DS out just yet.

[Hunter Noventa]

Well you assume those three are games I would want. (i don't). But other people do and that's cool.

Yeah, with how good solid state storage has gotten these days going with SD Carts makes sense, if only the Vita had been so sensible. I didn't really consider that patches could go right onto the cart, but I guess that happened with Pokemon XY.

I still want to hear more about specs, battery life and overall durability. I certainly won't be lining up at launch to buy one, but I also feel it'll be more successful than the Wii U, simply because it's gimmick (the portability) doesn't have an impact on gameplay like the Wii's Motion Controls or the Wii U's gamepad did, so they'll probably attract a lot of third-party publishers back if the only real unusual requirement is the game has a stable transition from docked to undocked mode.

[cobaltstarfire]

What I liked most is to see that another Splatoon is coming...I guess Zelda is going to end up being cross platform.

The console itself has a neat concept, not especially surprising because of leaks/speculation. I don't think the form factor will bother anyone who is already used to carrying around tablets.

I like that it is more portable, I probably won't use it as a portable, but it does make bringing it on trips easier. I wanted to introduce my mom to splatoon last christmas, but couldn't because it'd be too much of a pain to bring the wiiU on an airplane. If it has a battery life similar to the WiiU touch pad with the brightness dialed down somewhat, I don't think it'll be a huge problem, it might even be better since battery technology keeps improving?


And of course as someone who ended up completely loving splatoon it looks like it handily solves the problem of group play, and probably helps other multiplayer games too. At least for playing with people who all have a switch, still not a good solution for households...I wonder if they'll have some sort of download play for handhelds to lessen the $$$ burden. (sort of like four swords on the gamecube with GBA's)

[Professor Gnoll]

Nintendo's pretty good at durability, actually. They tend to do a fair amount of stress testing on their devices. I recall the Wii remote in particular being pretty tough to crack to protect it when it was inevitably flung across the room.

As for the Switch in general... I like that they're trying something new. I could see myself using this, but like others, I'll need to wait a while to be sure.

[cobaltstarfire]

I also wanted to add, that I don't think Touch Screen and Movement Controls are going to go away.

I wonder if they got a tiny gyro in the slideoffey parts, or if games that would need a gyroscope need a full blown control it looks like something like that might be going on in the video.

It'd be a real pitty to lose the gyroscope, once you learn to use it, it is superior for aiming and camera control in just about every way. I'd rather games continue to allow for both, than take one away just because some people can't or don't want to adapt.

[Typewriter]

I buy everything because I don't like to get denied access to exclusives so I will be picking this up, but that being said - I'm mildly annoyed by this console as it's presented here. I consider the Wii-U to be painfully slow and with all the guts being jammed into the tablet itself I feel like there's a decent chance that it will, once again, be incredibly slow. Above and beyond that this console will likely spend 99% of it's lifetime sitting next to the TV (for me anyways) which means that the sacrifice in power and performance will do nothing for me. Even if there is no sacrifice in power or performance it's still annoying that I'll be paying for all of these features that I don't care about in the slightest.

Don't get me wrong - I understand the need to innovate, and I certainly don't think Nintendo needs to try ramping up the graphical quality or anything - I'm fine with Wii-U graphics. It's just that looking at this thing I see gimmicks. Gimmicks that I'll buy, but gimmicks that will probably ensure that I spend the vast majority of my gaming time anywhere else than on this console.

[Hunter Noventa]

I also wanted to add, that I don't think Touch Screen and Movement Controls are going to go away.

I wonder if they got a tiny gyro in the slideoffey parts, or if games that would need a gyroscope need a full blown control it looks like something like that might be going on in the video.

It'd be a real pitty to lose the gyroscope, once you learn to use it, it is superior for aiming and camera control in just about every way. I'd rather games continue to allow for both, than take one away just because some people can't or don't want to adapt.

That all depends on how well the motion control is actually implemented. It's also a lot more difficult to code for, I imagine. But then, most of the games I enjoy don't use it at all.

Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/heres-your-first-look-at-the-nx-nintendos-upcoming-con-1788004927) has collected some more information. It looks like they've got a good group of third party support lined up. Not much more on the technical aspect, other than it being powered by Nvidia graphics, which admittedly have gotten a lot better on power consumption as of late.

Still, the two big questions I have are about the battery life, and is it finally going to be region free like every other modern system.

[cobaltstarfire]

That all depends on how well the motion control is actually implemented. It's also a lot more difficult to code for, I imagine. But then, most of the games I enjoy don't use it at all.



It is true that implementation is important, Splatoon has great implementation, while Starfox Zero's use of the gyroscope is weaker and a little harder to use.

Just because you personally don't use or like the gyroscope doesn't mean it's a good thing to remove entirely, if third person games could implement it as well as Splatoon did, it would be a huge improvement to all games.

There are still sticks, just cause the gyroscope is there doesn't mean that a game has to use it, keeping the gyros doesn't endanger your preferred way of playing games.

[Mando Knight]

If it has a battery life similar to the WiiU touch pad with the brightness dialed down somewhat, I don't think it'll be a huge problem, it might even be better since battery technology keeps improving?
The Wii U GamePad didn't have the main processor units inside. Switch does (though it'll get backed up by additional processors when docked).

I wonder if they got a tiny gyro in the slideoffey parts,

Officially known as Joy-Cons.

[Flickerdart]

Tit'll get backed up by additional processors when docked

Will it? That's good to know.

I imagine the resolution of the Switch's own screen will be small enough that rendering to it won't be too challenging for the mobile hardware.

[cobaltstarfire]

The Wii U GamePad didn't have the main processor units inside. Switch does (though it'll get backed up by additional processors when docked).



Ahh yeah that isn't something I had considered. Hopefully you can plug the thing into a wall independent of docking it, you can do that with the wiiu gamepad so it makes sense that the switch could too.

[Rodin]

Wait, they have From Software listed as a third-party developer?? Those guys are heavily Sony. I wonder if that means we'll be seeing portable Souls games.

Given the types of games I play, power isn't an issue. The real question is going to be the library, and how well the system transitions to being portable - are the controls comfortable? How long does the battery last? Etc.

I skipped the Wii U after the disappointment that was the Wii. The touchscreen controller just felt way too gimmicky for me, but this one actually catches my interest. I often wind up picking up Indie games twice - once when they first release for PC, and then a second time when they come out for handhelds a year later. If this means I can skip that step, all the better.

Even if I'm not taking it with me on the go, having it portable is still handy because I often like to have the TV on while I play games. With this, it sounds like I'll be able put on a late night talk show, play my games while listening to the show, then when the show finishes I can just get up, slot the console into the docking port, and then swap controllers.

It's still a gimmick, but it's a gimmick I'm actually excited for. I just hope that some of the Wii U games eventually make their way to the Switch as well - it always sucks missing a generation of Nintendo's first party games.

The other test for me I guess would be their classics catalog - they've continually irked me with how heavily they restrict access to their older titles. If the Switch has the ability to, say, take Super Metroid on the go? Dreamland.

[Triaxx]

I love everyone, and not just here questioning the capabilities of the tablet component, when most of them were probably just running around playing Pokemon Go recently without worries. Besides that, I expect it's using a standard USB port to charge, if it's not a dual battery system.

[GloatingSwine]

Wait, they have From Software listed as a third-party developer?? Those guys are heavily Sony.

Are they though? They've made plenty of Xbox and Xbox 360 games as well (Otogi, Chromehounds, Metal Wolf Chaos, Steel Batallion) and most of their recent games other than Demons Souls and Bloodborne have been multiplatform (eg. Armored Core 4 onwards).


They've mostly been a multiplatform developer since the end of the PS1.


I love everyone, and not just here questioning the capabilities of the tablet component, when most of them were probably just running around playing Pokemon Go recently without worries. Besides that, I expect it's using a standard USB port to charge, if it's not a dual battery system.

Pokemon Go was on a device people already carry all the time anyway.

The Switch's tablet mode is a thing they will have to plan for carrying. I would be very surprised if it uses a standard USB charging port, it will probably have an AC adapter that plugs into whatever port it uses to dock to the base station.

[cobaltstarfire]

A plug for it on the go probably won't be any worse than the plug used for a 3DS or a laptop.

[Triaxx]

Nintendo, not Apple. I doubt they're going to use a proprietary charge port. Probably a unique connector to the dock, but I'd count on standard USB for charging. Or at worst, an adapter.

[GloatingSwine]

Nintendo, not Apple. I doubt they're going to use a proprietary charge port. Probably a unique connector to the dock, but I'd count on standard USB for charging. Or at worst, an adapter.

Why would you assume that though given that the only time they've ever used standard USB charging for anything was the totally optional Wii U pro controller.

You can get USB chargers for a 3DS but they're third party and don't work properly (and they don't even give you the AC adapter in the box you have to buy it seperately the cheeky gits).

It is far more likely to be a proprietary port like literally everything else Nintendo have ever made.

[cobaltstarfire]

Why does it matter either way? It's not like Nintendo has a problem with uselessly short cords unlike certain other consoles *glares at the ps4*

[Hunter Noventa]

The Wii U GamePad didn't have the main processor units inside. Switch does (though it'll get backed up by additional processors when docked).

Have they confirmed that? There's been nothing technical that I saw, the only thing that would be confirmed would be the processing for the video out to the TV. I don't think they'd want to do something like that, because they'd like the game experience to remain the same in docked vs undocked. And also not risk a developer making a game that's only playable in docked mode.

[Triaxx]

Because Nintendo seems to be working very hard to correct past mistakes. That said, it's also possible the tablet uses replaceable batteries.

[Aotrs Commander]

Unless is ends up becoming the exclusive new Pokémon game platform, I really can't say as it does anything remotely for me, personally. I have exactly two consoles - a Gamecube (specifically only for two Pokémon games) and a PS2 (which I haven't used in years). My sort of games are not console-sort of games, so, as I say, aside from Pokémon I can't think there could possibly be anything that would prompt me to get one (and even then, it would very much depend on price, as I might baulk at something two or three times the price of a 3DS XL for a handful of games).

[Lheticus]

I wonder how many people feel ripped off for getting a Wii U? I know I do.

[factotum]

From what we see in the trailer, I think Nintendo should be applauded for going with a gimmick that actually makes some sort of sense for once, and which also solidly plays to their still very strong position in the mobile gaming market. I also share some of the concern as to how much horsepower and battery life they can squeeze into a device of the size shown, but let's be honest, they've never done well at competing on raw horsepower with Microsoft and Sony anyway!

[Forum Explorer]

Well that look interesting, and a straight up upgrade to the Wii U. And I think it's pretty much what a Console needs to be when computers can pretty much do everything a normal console can.

[Rodin]

I wonder how many people feel ripped off for getting a Wii U? I know I do.

As I recall, the Wii U only had a little bit more power than the Wii, and was considered comparable to PS3 and XBox 360. As I already owned a Wii, that was definitely a factor in my not picking it up. Nintendo basically skipped a console generation and didn't release anything to directly compete with the PS4 and XBone. The strategy seems to be that they release at the end of the life cycles of the other consoles - not to try and compete with them on power, but to offer a new console when there is no competition.

I'm still not sure that's working out for them.

The New 3DS strikes me as being much the same - an incremental upgrade to keep up sales rather than a genuine generational step forward. If they keep up this pattern, even Nintendo diehards should probably only be buying every other console that Nintendo releases. Heck, the New 3DS had virtually no exclusives to that version of the handheld, and the Wii U looked similarly sparse from a quick googling.

Nintendo still has the best first party games out there. They just need to quit with all the shenanigans and make it easy for people to buy their consoles to access the stuff.

[Tentreto]

From what I've seen:
Lots of developers making games for it, which is good. I remember the Wii U had notoriously low 3rd party games that weren't based off movies or similar. I wonder how comparable it is to the original Wii U line up.

Interesting...controller thingy?
This seems perfectly fine for single player, but for multiplayer, they look almost too small and hard to use. I'll probably like to see someone play with one live to compare it.
When its portable, it almost seems a bit like the Vita. This might work better as it is a definite console too, so will have more support. It also seems to be a portable which can connect to a TV through an adaptor. Dunno how many games you can play in 'portable' mode, and whether the adaptor has all games, and screen can have one.

Skyrim...yay? That means its at least as powerful or more than the ps3 or Xbox 360, which to be honest doesn't bother me too much. Nintendo prefer stylised games, so might actually be a boon over hyper realistic graphics.

Also, trying to push the Splatoon Esport scene? Didn't know it existed, but I''l admit its probably a better crowd shooter, especially with the overview at the end.

Finally, the name: Nintendo Switch.
Pretty good, more mature sounding than the Wii and sounding less new age than U.Also makes far more sense than the Xbox One. Standby for plenty of bad puns though...
They dropped the Wii name? Probably for the best, in looking at a more mature console. Also from helping people remember the last Wii console...

So, all in all, pretty good release, around the same time as the .5s are being announced. Will have to see what it does. I'm skint as anything, but hey, maybe I'll get it when we find out if it is actually good.

[cobaltstarfire]

If Nintendo is still using their blue ocean strategy they aren't interested in competing directly with anyone anyway, and they haven't been that interested in pushing polygons for a very long time either. I personally feel like the Switch is basically a refinement and maturation of what Nintendo has been trying to do with both its consoles and handhelds for about 3 generations now. So even when the waggle was truely terrible, I can't hold it against Nintendo for daring to experiment.

Though, I bought a wiiu very late in its lifespan (last summer). That was about when there were enough exclusive games which interested me to warrant buying one. So no, I don't feel "ripped off" by my purchase of a wiiu. It gave me hundreds of hours of entertainment in just over a year...and I haven't even bought all the games I want to play on it yet.

I am glad that the new system is likely to have a better catalog for everyone, but Nintendo's catalog size has never been a huge draw for me, if it was I'd have been asking for a PSX instead of N64 for Christmas all those years ago..

The Switch does have me by the leg though, I don't like buying systems at launch, but if it starts with a new splatoon I'm going to have to exercise a lot of self control to not pick it up immediately.

[veti]

Battery life is an interesting question. It looks like it's delivering pretty impressive graphical performance, which chews through batteries like nothing else. At least it's not 3D...

Hard drive? Not really necessary, SSDs are a thing now. (See: iPad.)

My take is, it looks like what the Wii U should have been - a hybrid console/portable platform. And if it can, indeed, run Skyrim (with decent graphical performance), it must have some respectable processing power - which, to be honest, is a new departure for Nintendo, in this century at least. But it's not very portable: I can't just stuff it into a pocket, I doubt I'll be taking it on a plane. Nor does it have the simple accessibility of the original Wii, which is still in use in my house, particularly for the kids. So it's not going to replace either of the (now two generations)-old Nintendo platforms I already have. Which makes me wonder, how am I going to make room for it?

Still, I'm interested. Will watch eagerly for further information.

[SaintRidley]

I wonder how many people feel ripped off for getting a Wii U? I know I do.

WiiU got Pikmin 3, and my sole reason for buying the console (and I got some fun games in addition to that one for it), so I don't feel ripped off.

The Switch looks like the final realization of what their design principles behind the Wii and WiiU were going toward, though. And that makes me happy.

[Zevox]

Interesting to see that the rumors about what the NX would be like were true - though I see that Nintendo continues to come up with odd, uninspiring names for their devices, but eh, whatever.

Well, for me, the long and short of it will as always come down to what games this gets. Nintendo usually gets me to pick up their system on the strength of first-party offerings alone, but right now they're turning one of my favorite franchises of theirs into something I'm much less interested in with Zelda: Breath of the Wild, and Smash 4 isn't far enough in the past for me to expect a new Smash Brothers anytime soon, and those are the two biggest to me personally. If they can pull some of the strong 3rd-party support they get on their handhelds onboard with this, though, it could wind up being something I'll be more than happy to pick up - though probably not at release.


I wonder how many people feel ripped off for getting a Wii U? I know I do.
*looks at his stack of great Wii U games* Hell no.

[Mando Knight]

it must have some respectable processing power - which, to be honest, is a new departure for Nintendo, in this century at least.

Gamecube actually had better processing power and memory than the PS2.

[danzibr]

First thoughts, looks pretty cool, but by golly, that'd be a tiny donkey controller. That claw grip did not look comfortable.

it'll probably have the sequel to Xenoblade on it, which will anger me.
haha... yeah. I'll be buying one.

I got a Wii U for two reasons: Smash Bros and Xenoblade. Had some nice bonuses, like Pikmin 3, Mario, Hyrule Warriors, but still, those 2 reasons. Assuming Switch has Xenoblade and/or Smash Bros, sign me up.

[Triaxx]

I expect improved, third party grips either day one, or soon after.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I expect improved, third party grips either day one, or soon after.
When you say "improved", you mean "larger" - which does not bode well for the "mobile" part of the hybrid.

If you want better gamepads to go with it, and assuming it's bluetooth-enabled as it seems to be, you can just carry a pair NES30 Pro's around.

Also, interesting (to me) bit of my personal speculation on the dock. Basically, back when the leaks were happening, there was a tidbit about the dock-station "providing more power" to the system.

People tend to assume it somehow meant plugging in an extra CPU or GPU. But... why not take that literally? It's a dock station plugged into mains. It can literally supply extra power to the system, to run the Tegra chip at maximum power that can be unsustainable on the go.

Then there's the suspiciously wide slit on the underside where the console attaches to the dock... the exhaust is on top, the speakers are probably front-facing... it looks sort of like an intake... boosted cooling?

As an existing hybrid gamer (Samsung's ATIV tablet PC, decent enough power to run, among other things, Skyrim), I can tell you that you don't need a change in hardware for there to be a world of difference between performance on the go and performance when plugged in. When the entire device is about the size of the battery in my tablet... yeah, they're going to underclock the Tegra chip in mobile mode, and use the smaller resolution of the screen to lessen the load, all to bring the unit's battery life to something respectable.

That said... my tablet is not a gaming-built system. It's basically an Intel i5 (1.7GHz yay!) with its HD4000 GPU and 4GB of RAM. Something actually purpose-built like the Tegra, especially if it's not a stock Tegra chip but a custom version as is implied... they can really put stuff to work with it.

[factotum]

Gamecube actually had better processing power and memory than the PS2.

That's hardly difficult, considering the Gamecube was released 18 months after the PS2 was...

[GloatingSwine]

Gamecube actually had better processing power and memory than the PS2.

Unfortunately it also had a gimped storage medium which led to compromises particularly in audio. It took until Skyward Sword for a Zelda game to have an orchestral score not a MIDI one, and even some Dreamcast ports had perceptible audio downgrades due to the limited storage (Skies of Arcadia on Gamecube has highly noticably worse music than the Dreamcast version).


I expect improved, third party grips either day one, or soon after.

Grips aren't the issue. Button position is the issue. They're all minced up small and close to the edges of the device, and when attached they're vertically laid out not diagonal like every other controller. Every other controller has them diagonal because then they're in the arc of your thumb whilst it's relaxed. Vertical layout bad, close to edge of controller bad.

There's a reason my Wii U gamepad stays on its dock and never gets used unless I have to for the store. It's just not comfortable to use for long periods because of its control positioning.

Bet it won't support the Wii U pro controller either so you'll need to buy the new Switch pro controller despite it being exactly the same layout.

[Triaxx]

Actually, my thought was a simple grip you slot the JoyCons into to make it easier to hold instead of the awkward claw grip when used NES style. Maybe something that makes them feel like a PlayStation controller?

I'm expecting something along the lines of dynamic SLI. Basically the chip in the tablet goes into a battery friendly power saving mode when disconnected, and then when plugged in, switches to full power mode and links to one in the dock itself. So plugging it in jumps you to a pair or more for vastly improved graphics.

[GloatingSwine]

Actually, my thought was a simple grip you slot the JoyCons into to make it easier to hold instead of the awkward claw grip when used NES style. Maybe something that makes them feel like a PlayStation controller?


Again though the claw grip is happening because of the size and button positions not the shape of the unit. It's a small widget (Ars have estimated it as smaller than a NES controller), anything you slot it into is going to be similarly small.

(Or defeat the object of it being portable)

[Lheticus]

WiiU got Pikmin 3, and my sole reason for buying the console (and I got some fun games in addition to that one for it), so I don't feel ripped off.

The Switch looks like the final realization of what their design principles behind the Wii and WiiU were going toward, though. And that makes me happy.

Welllllll I gotta admit, Hyrule Warriors is fun as owt (even though the 3DS version is even better.) And Super Mario 3D World is probably the best out of all the "New Mario" games. It just feels like Nintendo made a completely piss poor effort at giving the system a wide variety of okay or better games compared to previous generations. Yes, even the GameCube. I just...I dunno, I feel like they should have taken responsibility for giving us "meet the new Wii, same as the old Wii but with less motion controls" more. Guess I'm mostly just salty about the whole thing for no good reason.

Gasp! Someone actually copped to that on the internet!

[GloatingSwine]

Apart from the off screen play, the Switch doesn't actually sound like it's a development of the Wii U's design philosophy.

Wii U was supposed to be about the second screen experience stuff, with off screen play being a secondary thing, but it never really worked out and they're ditching second screen stuff from the Switch, because the dock covers the screen. They're almost certainly also deemphasising touch as well because again, not available docked.

It's not a continuation of their design philosophies of anything from the last few generations. I would even be surprised if they make much use of motion control or pointing devices like the Wiimote.

This is a device intended to be a continuation of both of Nintendo's market segments, but probably more fed by mobile (where they're more successful) than home console, because the spec is OK for a mobile device but a bit wimpy for a home console.

Rather than thinking about it as a home console you can take with you, think of it as a portable you can plug into the TV.

[Triaxx]

What you're thinking is a full size controller for it to plug into. What I'm thinking is a handlebar grip, perhaps twice as long as the existing controller, that you can tuck into a pocket, giving you the ability to grip the controller, without your fingers being wrapped up like a cinnamon roll. In fact you could even have it hinged in the middle to fold into a pocket.

[cobaltstarfire]

Because of them showcasing splatoon and how they did it, I don't think they will have removed motion control completely. I mean they could have, but a good chunk of the splatoon community, especially the competitive scene would be very unhappy about it. It might require a peripheral sold separately (or possibly with the game, like the game boy docks with pokemon stadium), but I don't think motion control is completely gone.


I'm not sure that it doesn't have the ability for gamepad play, sure when docked the screen is covered, but who says it has to be docked to be playing a game on the tv? It may still also have a touch screen in that case too. (this is all speculation)


GloatingSwing, you don't need to use the wiiu gamepad to access the store if you don't want to, you can navigate the store using the pro control.


(back to my incessant splatoon babble, other than new "hair" styles being added, it looks like they've added pants and gloves too, I wonder if octolings will also be playable...pants, and octolings have been the two biggest wants in the community)

[GloatingSwine]

I'm not sure that it doesn't have the ability for gamepad play, sure when docked the screen is covered, but who says it has to be docked to be playing a game on the tv? It may still also have a touch screen in that case too. (this is all speculation)


I doubt the dock is going to have the ability to stream from the unit. It's already likely to be running in low power mode when undocked, so streaming everything would make it a: worse on a large screen and b) mince the battery because it will require extra hardware over and above the existing wireless network.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I doubt the dock is going to have the ability to stream from the unit. It's already likely to be running in low power mode when undocked, so streaming everything would make it a: worse on a large screen and b) mince the battery because it will require extra hardware over and above the existing wireless network.

Yeah. I don't really see the main unit being able to play on the TV and in your hands at the same time.

I can, at the same time, easily see a WiiU-style secondary gamepad/screen controller... maybe backwards compatibility with WiiU?

[cobaltstarfire]

Just speculation, I don't like to dismiss things that haven't been shown one way or the other.

I'd agree that it's more likely that it won't, simply because if there was the splatoon footage would have featured it. Splatoon on the wiiu has several mechanics that rely on the game pad...which could with varying amounts of ease be moved away from it, it'd be nice to not have to look down for the map, and might allow for better local play.


I am very very sorry that I keep talking about splatoon, it's the only game of the ones shown that I've very familiar with and my only means of trying to glean info about the Switch.

[Triaxx]

I think it's be very possible to have a motion sensor in the individual pads. One on either pad to give tilt functionality, and then the pair of them for more sensitivity. So you get basic function with just a single pad, or better sensitivity with both or the Pro Controller.

[GloatingSwine]

I can, at the same time, easily see a WiiU-style secondary gamepad/screen controller... maybe backwards compatibility with WiiU?

Backwards compatibility from physical media has been ruled out already, so it would only be from digital purchases, and that's not Nintendo's strong suit.

Clean break from Wii U almost certainly.

[Triaxx]

Theoretically, there's room for a disc drive on the dock, but having the old console is probably the best option until the store transitions completely.

[factotum]

Theoretically, there's room for a disc drive on the dock

But that, of course, would defeat the major point of the console, which is allowing you to play the same games on your TV that you can while on the move--since the disc-based games couldn't be played mobile, barring a large amount of internal storage and some sort of "install" operation.

[Rodin]

As someone who hasn't owned a Wii U, I'll be happily buying any that they convert to run on the new cartridges. The question is whether they do that. It seems like they would be ideal as games that can comfortably run on the mobile version of the console, but I'm not holding my breath.

Backwards compatibility may be something we've come to not expect, but making new digital versions for the new hardware is something that should really be more prevalent than it is. I suppose that the cost analysis for difficulty of converting vs. expected sales just doesn't work out most of the time.

[cobaltstarfire]

How easy or hard it is to be backwards compatible really depends on how similar the Switch is to the WiiU wouldn't it? The way Nintendo has done it in the past was not via emulation which is when things tend to get squirrely, but with the systems actual hardware, since not that much changed from one system to the next. (this is true for GBA-DS, DS-3DS, GCN-Wi, Wii-Wiiu isn't it?)


Even if the Switches setup is similar to the WiiU's to allow easy backwards compatibility, I can see Nintendo saying no backwards compatibility because it's unfair to people who have physical media rather than digital downloads...or something weird like that. Though I can't remember if the wii had any digital versions for its games. But you could transfer virtual console games from the wii to the wiiu.


Something no one has mentioned at all, is that the preview itself was very different from most Nintendo Commercials. There were no children or family context, just adults with other adults playing games. I think that is very interesting in itself in the kind of signals it sends.

[Yuki Akuma]

They actually solved the emulation issues with the GBA-DS and Gamecube-Wii switches by just putting the hardware of the older console inside the case along with the new hardware.

[cobaltstarfire]

They actually solved the emulation issues with the GBA-DS and Gamecube-Wii switches by just putting the hardware of the older console inside the case along with the new hardware.

In both those cases the systems also share hardware, there aren't two different complete sets of hardware crammed in each system.

[Ichneumon]

I like the concept of the system. I likely won't buy it on launch, but wait for the reviews, but chances are I'll buy it somewhere next year.

[Gnoman]

They actually solved the emulation issues with the GBA-DS and Gamecube-Wii switches by just putting the hardware of the older console inside the case along with the new hardware.

That's also how Sony handled the PS1 functionality of the PS2 and the PS2 functionality of the PS3 (the PS3 was powerful enough to run a good-enough PS1 emulator, particularly since Sony was in possession of the technical information to make a very good one-this is why all PS3s can play PS1 games but only the early models can play PS2 discs as they removed hardware to cut costs). Only Microsoft has relied primarily on emulation for their backwards compatibility, which is why only a selection of games (albiet an ever-expanding selection) is available on the newer consoles, as they ensure each individual game works properly with the emulator.

[ChillerInstinct]

I'm a little bit torn. Leaning positive, but torn.

The Plus:
- Consolidating their game development into ONE device (recent announcements for mobile not included) is HUGE for Nintendo. For the first time since the Game Boy came onto the scene, they'll be firing all guns on ONE platform, which means the first-party library (which, let's be entirely honest here, has been the main draw for Nintendo devices since the N64) for the Switch should be absolutely fantastic. And it shouldn't take long at all to build up a library worth picking a Switch up for. It also means release droughts should, for the most part, be a non-issue. Which is good, because I can't think of a year since... 2009 maybe that either the home console or the handheld has felt a little shafted. Usually alternating between the two.

- The gimmick looks REALLY, REALLY cool. When the WiiU was announced, I LOVED the idea of being able to take my console games away from the the TV because I was still living with my parents at the time. Unfortunately the range was... bad. I couldn't even play on the can. This looks like it won't have that problem. As someone who is spent most of the past generation on his 3DS than on the WiiU, this is going to be great.

- It's likely to sell like gangbusters, which means solid third-party support is very likely. The WiiU's inability to take off meant most third-parties dropped it like a lead balloon REALLY quickly. I can only think of a couple decent third-party WiiU games that weren't ports-- compared to the Wii, which had some of my favourite third-party games since the 16-bit days. With this being THE Nintendo product for the next few years, I imagine it'll keep finding the same success Nintendo has had with their handhelds since... well, the Game Boy.

The Minus

- Battery Life. This is a BIG one for me, because I spend a lot of time commuting. Rumour has it that the battery life is a mere 3 hours. That's... pretty freaking bad.

- Performance. So here's something that I (and apparently a lot of other people) noticed-- there's some SERIOUS performance drops in the trailer when the Switch goes mobile. Like, "chugging". Obviously there's going to be a performance hit when it's not docked but if it's THAT bad, it's going to be a problem.

- Screen protection. Okay, so here's the thing; I don't own a smartphone or tablet so odds are there's an obvious solution here that I don't know about, but still: the lack of a clamshell worries the HELL out of me, since I'm a clumsy person and tend to carry my 3DS in a messenger bag. I haven't used an open-face portable since the GBA SP came out, and let me tell you I've made hay out of that.

I'm debating on whether or not to wait and see if they release a new model a year or two into the Switch's lifespan. They don't do that with their home consoles but they've reliably done that with their handhelds since the Game Boy Colour so I don't know what to expect.

[Triaxx]

It appears to me, that the tablet component will be able to fit into a conventional tablet case.

As for the "chugging" I am wary of using an early launch video as a measure of the final product as much for positives as for negatives. iE, I don't trust in game footage until I'm seeing it on my monitor, nor will I trust what could be a 30FPS screen on a 60FPS Video. And no matter what some people tell you 30FPS is perfectly playable.

[ChillerInstinct]

It appears to me, that the tablet component will be able to fit into a conventional tablet case.

As for the "chugging" I am wary of using an early launch video as a measure of the final product as much for positives as for negatives. iE, I don't trust in game footage until I'm seeing it on my monitor, nor will I trust what could be a 30FPS screen on a 60FPS Video. And no matter what some people tell you 30FPS is perfectly playable.

Oh, I'm not one of those people who gets TOO uptight about framerates. Just seemed like it was REALLY struggling, which was a bit worrisome. But that IS a good point that it might just be because of how it was recorded.

Wonder how long it will take for third-party protective cases to come out for the Switch? Can't imagine it'll be too long if it really takes off. Hopefully there will be some really shock absorbent ones, just in case.

[factotum]

I wouldn't be surprised if somebody produces a third-party battery pack to allow people to sacrifice a bit of portability for extended battery life--provided the Switch is a popular enough device to make the development of such a thing worth it, of course.

[cobaltstarfire]

- Screen protection. Okay, so here's the thing; I don't own a smartphone or tablet so odds are there's an obvious solution here that I don't know about, but still: the lack of a clamshell worries the HELL out of me, since I'm a clumsy person and tend to carry my 3DS in a messenger bag. I haven't used an open-face portable since the GBA SP came out, and let me tell you I've made hay out of that.


Even having just a basic screen protector can go a long way to helping prevent screen breakage. Though I do wonder how tricky it would be to fit a case on it since the way it docks looks like it might not really leave room for a case.


There are gajillions of ways to safely transport mobile devices now. Other than protective skins, and screen protectors, most carrying bags (backpacks, messenger bags, ect) have multiple pockets just for laptops/tablets/smartphones, at least some of them also have protective padding too.

[Triaxx]

Considering the sort of abuse I've seen Nintendo products shrug off, I wouldn't worry much. Examples: I have a GBC that I found mashed into a driveway. It had tire tracks on it. The system and game work fine. Then there's the Gameboy at the Nintendo Store in NYC, that was hit with a bomb and works after just having the screen replaced.

Though given you aren't likely to move it without the Sticks attached, those should act as good bumpers to keep it from impacting flat.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The design choice is interesting. Clearly, they're wanting to leverage the power of modern tablets, but still be able to provide the performance of a traditional console. From what I've seen so far, I am slightly optimistic that they've made a great balance. Obviously, when it is docked, you don't have to worry about endurance (except maybe the controllers, since they're strictly wireless), but on the go mobile endurance is going to be a HUGE factor in if this flies or flops.

The other concern I have that hasn't been brought up yet really is going to be the price tag. If this thing is several hundred dollars... that's going to really bring up a question as to why bother. As the problem with any console, you can make a more powerful PC that as vastly more uses than as a simple game console for the same price as most consoles on the market. Since around the XBox, there's been virtually no difference in hardware between a PC and Console anyway, except the console is dedicated to only playing games, and typically is less powerful. The key here is that they've made it portable. If it is portable enough (going back to Endurance), I think Nintendo may have found a counter to that finally, but now you bring up the question 'why not just buy a tablet instead'. While you won't be able to play these games on a Tablet, you'd be surprised what you can, and it has other uses as well. It'll be interesting to see if Nintendo can carve out this niche, or if they just price themselves out of viability.

[ChillerInstinct]

Considering the sort of abuse I've seen Nintendo products shrug off, I wouldn't worry much. Examples: I have a GBC that I found mashed into a driveway. It had tire tracks on it. The system and game work fine. Then there's the Gameboy at the Nintendo Store in NYC, that was hit with a bomb and works after just having the screen replaced.

Though given you aren't likely to move it without the Sticks attached, those should act as good bumpers to keep it from impacting flat.

Good old Nintendium. :P

It's true that Nintendo devices have a history of being able to withstand a LOT of absurd punishment, I just don't like taking chances is all. Especially with a large, exposed screen. Though you're probably right about the Sticks, I remember when the WiiU first came out I mentioned to a few friends that the way the control sticks were positioned on it was ingenious for tanking a fall.

I'm probably worried about nothing, I guess. This is the same Nintendo that apparently refused to progress on prototypes for the original DS until they withstood a fall from the height of the average human being, just in case. And while I had to get a couple replacement GameCubes back in the day because of the disc reader malfunctions (and had to pass on Xenoblade when my Wii stopped being able to read the double-layered discs) and the top screen of my DS Lite nearly fell off near the end of its lifespan, for the most part I've had few hardware defects. And I guess with them switching to cartridges full time even the disc reading problems will be a non-issue.

[cobaltstarfire]

I did have a GBA screen shatter bad enough that it couldn't be played anymore, it was in the outermost pocket of my backpack (which had 2-3 text books in it) and got knocked off the couch landing with the GBA on the bottom. Being run over might not break them, but getting suddenly hit with a lot of force can do it.

Cases and screen protectors work by cushioning the fall and keeping the device from flexing too much, most cracks on phones I saw when subbing highschools were stress cracks, which would come just from the flexing that happens when dropped. Though I feel like I've seen some technology (maybe a new run of smart phones?) that allows for much more flexibility in a device, maybe the Switch will be built similarly.

[Triaxx]

School books are hideously heavy. That's sort of an improper test.

Nintendo has two advantages. One is the fact that they solved the issue of modern multiplayer, on split screens in possibly the most Nintendo way available.

They other is that they are the reason for all the competition. PlayStation? Exists because of Nintendo. Xbox? Exists because of the PlayStation. PC isn't competition in the same way, but when you finish all the console games, PC is where you go looking for things to play.

[veti]

Oh, I'm not one of those people who gets TOO uptight about framerates.

For me, performance isn't so much about framerates. I'm sure those will be - acceptable.

But I've watched a couple of videos now about Breath of the Wild, and reading between the lines it looks to me as if the loading screens are sloooooow. Combine that with a short battery life (anything less than about 4 hours comes under "way short"), and that could make for a very frustrating handheld experience.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

School books are hideously heavy. That's sort of an improper test.

Nintendo has two advantages. One is the fact that they solved the issue of modern multiplayer, on split screens in possibly the most Nintendo way available.

They other is that they are the reason for all the competition. PlayStation? Exists because of Nintendo. Xbox? Exists because of the PlayStation. PC isn't competition in the same way, but when you finish all the console games, PC is where you go looking for things to play.

Which is also why Nintendo is in the financial difficulties they are in. They are literally wed to the console industry. They cannot afford the Nintendo Switch to pull a Nintendo 3d and bomb. If it does poorly... Nintendo may well be unable to continue. In many ways, this is a Final Fantasy moment for the company. If it takes off and does really well, the company can usher in a whole new genre of console gaming. If it does poorly, however... we may see a liquidation of the company.

Time will tell... will a great legend fall, or will they rise up proud once again and prove to everyone why they have been the 'man to beat' in the industry for all these many decades?

[Triaxx]

I doubt it'll be an end if it fails. Someone calculated they have something like a 15-year backlog of cash, even if they're operating at WiiU level losses. And with consistent cash franchises like Zelda and all the Marios, at worst they'll end up like Sega, selling them on other people's consoles.

[cobaltstarfire]

School books are hideously heavy. That's sort of an improper test.



Who said it was a test or a metric at all? Cars are "hideously heavy" too. The point was that screen breakage often depends on how force is meeting the object. Yes, my sad crushed GBA is obviously an out-liar, but relevant for the person who described themselves as clumsy and carries their stuff around in a bag where it might be unprotected. You may have also noticed the rest of my post contrasting the gba breakage to how most devices break (at least at the hands of hundreds of teenagers, and some adults): by being bent or flexed beyond the screens tolerances.


I don't think Nintendo will be in the kind of trouble that would put them under if they end up with another weak console, I know they've already tightened their belts once, they can probably do so again, because they are well known to hoard money and in general be conservative with it. Some of their problems were out of their hands like the west coast shipping strike last year though.

[Triaxx]

I meant for the size of the object, Textbooks are very heavy. So more mass in less area.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So I took a long hard look at the trailer again, and noticed a few things.

Firstly, the car holder thing has an assortment of holes in it. One is for the cartridge slot, curiously. Another on top for the vent, and a pair along the bottom of the back, matching the long thin holes on the back of the console I thought to be intakes previously. No holes on the bottom.

Now, following with the assumption that air is a substance that cannot be generated inside the console, it needs to get in there somehow, so the long holes on the back of the console's main body are pretty definitely intakes. Long, spanning most of the width, so hard to totally obstruct.

Then, I caught the briefest of glimpses into the space inside the dock where the console is slotted, it's visible for a split second when the woman towards the end of the trailer takes her Switch out of the dock. It's all tiny and blurry, but there's definitely some kind of protruding contact plate in the middle, no surprise there - and there's something on the back of the slot, towards the bottom. Impossible to make it out without CSI:Miami's "zoom and enhance" technology, but it's something that may or may not be a slot/opening leading into the back of the dock.

And finally there's a brief moment in the esports scene where the back of the dock is visible. The entire top of the back, like maybe 20% of its height, is one giant intake. At first it looked like maybe a shadow from the monitors in front, but it is way too uniform, way too dark, and just way too weird-looking. It's a big, rectangular black hole. There are no other openings that could let air in for the docked console.

So. The dock is increasingly looking like a supercharger station. There is no need for a dock that's "just" an assortment of connection ports and charging circuitry to be that large, and I don't think a giant hole in the back is something that might be needed for something else. Added power and added cooling seems to be its main purpose.

[factotum]

So. The dock is increasingly looking like a supercharger station. There is no need for a dock that's "just" an assortment of connection ports and charging circuitry to be that large, and I don't think a giant hole in the back is something that might be needed for something else. Added power and added cooling seems to be its main purpose.

The only problem with that is that there's no obvious step-down in performance when the device is removed from the dock and taken on the road. I suppose there might be a step-down in resolution, though--it's impossible to tell what resolution that screen is running at.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The only problem with that is that there's no obvious step-down in performance when the device is removed from the dock and taken on the road. I suppose there might be a step-down in resolution, though--it's impossible to tell what resolution that screen is running at.

We currently know, pretty definitively, that the screen is a 1280x720px capacitive multi-touch screen. So there's a definite step-down in resolution. Assuming that you play it on a FullHD TV, at any rate. Right now the only FullHD capable display device in our house is the tablet I'm using. :P
Though of course, there is basically nothing else to support the idea of supercharging. The intake on the back could just be a regular large intake with a filter to keep cooling the system at a regular rate even when it's standing on a dusty shelf docked into a snug casing, and the console hardware underclocks when mobile instead of overclocking when docked. There is no way to know for now.

Going to have to wait till January and Nintendo's presentation.